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Author Topic: 30-06 and light loads  (Read 14619 times)

Offline jackelope

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30-06 and light loads
« on: April 25, 2007, 12:08:58 PM »
first let me preface this by saying...i don't own lots of guns, nor do i know a whole ton about bullets/loads/ballistics, etc. i shoot factory loads out of a totally stock factory gun. i wish kind of that i had a flatter shooting caliber, but i  don't so here's my question. i've seen some bullets(hand loads i think) in the 125 grain range built for the '06. is there any benefit to using these, and if so, is there a factory 125 grain bullet that anybody knows of? i guess i wonder if it's too light for deer sized game, but i also wonder if it would be flatter shooting at longer ranges. anybody who is a bullet/ballistics guru have an answer for me? i pretty much just use 165 grain plain jane bullets ike core locks but this past year i used the hornadylight magnum 165 grain's. ate my tag so not sure the result on a deer, but they shoot pretty good. just not sure out to distances of 300 yards or so.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2007, 12:53:18 PM »
That the 30-06 is not flat shooting is, in my opinion, a common misconception. The ballistic coefficient of the bullet, and the muzzle velocity is what determines how "flat" it will shoot. If you're not familiar with the term "ballistic coefficient," it is just basically a mathematical representation of how aerodymanic a bullet is, with the longer a bullet is in relation to its diameter, the higher the BC will be. A 125 grain bullet in 30 caliber is very short and will have a very low BC. The muzzle velocity will be quite a bit higher than a 165 grain bullet, but the 125 will lose that velocity much quicker. Also the lower BC bullets will drift more in the wind. The 165 grain is just about the ideal weight in a 30-06, in my opinion, and there's nothing wrong with the 180's either. I would not go lighter than 150 grain in a 30-06, for hunting purposes, and I would only go that light if I wanted to reduce recoil. The 30-06 loaded with a 150-180 grain bullet is easily capable of shooting out to 400 yards. You might be surprised if you play around with a ballistic calculator to find that there is very little difference between the 30-06, and other cartridges that are "known" for being flat shooting, like the 7mm Rem. Mag and the 270, ESPECIALLY if you're only talking about shooting to 300 yards. Out to 300 yards, almost all modern cartridges shoot virtually the same.

Offline Ray

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2007, 12:58:50 PM »
It doesn't look like 125 grain has the best long range trajectory according to this  But then again the 125 grain was zeroed in at a shorter range too.

I seem to think 150 and 165 grain shoot best for me. I'm about as much a ballistics expert as some dude working at a grocery store though  :P

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 01:08:42 PM »
Yeah, but that isn't a fair comparison because those are the "managed recoil" loads. Muzzle velocity is only 2660 fps, when a full power load with a 125 grain bullet should be well over 3100 fps.

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2007, 01:10:15 PM »
I think you're right but not all of those were managed recoil.  You can take your pick here for example http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/choose_specific_loads.aspx?c1=30&c2=&c3=

Probably a better example

Offline bobcat

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2007, 01:15:38 PM »
Right, if you compare a 125 to a 165, you'll see the 125 in equivalent loads, the 125 does drop 1 inch less at 300 yards, when zeroed at 200. But, that's an insignificant amount, and the 165 will have the advantage of much less wind drift. It's much easier to compensate for distance than wind, because you can measure it with a rangefinder, or if you're shooting at 300 yards or less, you should be able to shoot without holding over at all, especially if you zero your rifle at 300 yards. Here's the 125 and 165 comparison:

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30061*R3006B

Offline Ray

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2007, 01:17:43 PM »
Quote
the 165 will have the advantage of much less wind drift.

I agree

Offline jackelope

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2007, 01:18:24 PM »
MAYBE here's a better question....where in western washington can i go and shoot and learn my gun better at 300 yards without being a member of some gun club?? not that i have anything against being a member, just curious if there is anywhere.

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Offline bobcat

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2007, 01:25:43 PM »
Most shooting ranges you do have to be a member. I am a member of one down here in the Olympia area, and I pay $160/year. If you don't mind driving to Olympia, you're welcome to go with me sometime. The only problem is we only have a 200 yard range. There is one down near Pe Ell that has 100, 200, 300, 500, and 700 yards, and I think it's only about $20/year. The WDFW has a list of shooting ranges, by county, on their website. I'll attach a PDF file of it here...

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2007, 01:31:17 PM »
I like this range http://www.svrifle.com/index.htm but I am a member of a different one due to proximity.

Maybe the best Western Washington range is in Eastern Washington  :bash:

Offline jackelope

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2007, 01:42:20 PM »
I just need to suck it up and join up with the kenmore range. they have a 300 yard range for members only.
or shoot over at the inlaws in the canyons in the off-season. :)

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Offline bobcat

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2007, 01:49:31 PM »
I just need to suck it up and join up with the kenmore range. they have a 300 yard range for members only.
or shoot over at the inlaws in the canyons in the off-season. :)

Do that, and also consider taking up handloading. You will shoot more as a result, and you will learn a lot. Just don't expect to save any money.  :chuckle:

Offline Buckblaster

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 07:20:34 AM »
A friend of mine loads 150 gr bullets with H4350 for his 30-06 and chrono's his loads at 3000 fps. That's magnum velocity. I shoot the same bullet out of my 300wsm at 3150 fps. Goes to show how efficient the 30-06 is. That is an excellent load for flat shooting at deer.
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Offline bobcat

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 07:36:44 AM »
I'm thinking about trying a 150 grain Barnes TSX in my 30-06, but I'll probably go with the 168 grain. I just like heavier bullets. What bullet do you use in your 300 WSM?

Offline jackelope

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 07:43:26 AM »
I just need to suck it up and join up with the kenmore range. they have a 300 yard range for members only.
or shoot over at the inlaws in the canyons in the off-season. :)

Do that, and also consider taking up handloading. You will shoot more as a result, and you will learn a lot. Just don't expect to save any money.  :chuckle:
bobcat...i wish i had the room for it. i have so much flytying stuff stashed in the garage right now with nowhere to put all that. the  last thing i need(probably not really) is another hobby.
9thats what my wife says anyway)
i'm gonna have to find a place to do some more shooting.
thanks for all the input guys.
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Buckblaster

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2007, 11:37:32 AM »
I was using just regular Hornady spire points in my 300wsm till I blew one up on the muley I shot in the Pogue a few years ago. That bullet hit the shoulder on a 75 yard shot and just dissintegrated. I switched to partitions but haven't killed anything with them yet.  I also am hunting with 120 gr Barnes X in the 7mm-08. The bullet length of the 120 gr Barnes is the same length as the 140 gr Partition. The Barnes gives more velocity and is a tougher bullet.  It's a fast load that chrono's at 3200 fps. I haven't killed anything with that either.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2007, 07:36:41 PM »
I don't know how many of you guys actually practice long range shooting, but even with handloads 400 yards is a stretch for a 30-06, the amount of holdover from 350-400 yards changes drastically.

Tacoma Sportsmen's Club has a long range, open to non-members.

I've got two or three spots where we can shoot up to 1000 yards, in the woods on the west side.

At extreme long distances a metal "dinger" is a great thing. You'd need the Hubble Telescope to see bullet holes at 400 yards.
We used a 2'x3' plate at 400, placing it in a dirt bank.

With a lot of practice both wind doping and holdover become more natural, and the rangefinder is less of a necessity.

To the original question, I believe the average 30-06 is way overpowered, and slinging way too heavy of a projectile.

The venerable 30-30 has taken most all of North America's large game, up to bear and moose.
With way less poop than an -06. ;)
Many states allow .22 cal centerfires for deer, and a .243 is more than adequate at the minimum our state requires.

My (.30 cal) rifle was used last fall, to take a large whitetail doe.
It was done using a 123 gr PSP, backed by 47 grains of H4895.
She fell over dead as dead, with one shot.

I ran out of those bullets, letting the borrower get used to it, so I took my buck with a 180gr RN, full strength load.
I killed him way deader than he needed to be.

My brother custom loads, if you don't but you'd like a tailored load, contact me.
It's a bit more than a box of factory bullets, but it's worth it.
He also does "handloading lessons", you go over to his house (in north Seattle) and have his supervision and equipment, to do the job yourself.
We have the dies for dozens of calibers both mainstream and obscure, and have access to more with a bit of notice.

He'll work with you at the range, where the real work of handloading takes place, and use the chronograph so you have a good baseline of data to build on.

Krusty
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Offline Krusty

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2007, 01:10:50 AM »
Miles,

I did indeed mean a 2 foot x 3 foot plate, 1/2" thick.
The 2x3 plate is approx. the size of a bull elk's chest, and hitting it in the corners is not good.
To set it up a cut is made in the top of a stump 3 or 4 inches deep, with a chain saw, and the plate is stood up in that slot.
At almost a quarter mile away, it doesn't look very big.

I wish my brother was here, long range shooting the 30-06 is his game.
If I had more time I'd fire up the "Rem-shoot" program and run the actual drop rate.

The .222 I shoot at long range has some serious holdover at 400 yards, and over 14 feet of drop at 600 yards (the longest target shot I ever made with it).

When we shoot at 1000 yards we like to scrounge up an old car hood, and paint it a bright color.
I have yet to hit the hood at 1000 with the .222 or my 7.62x54 (with iron sights), but Red can do it with several of the big bores.

Holdover is measured in hoods, "I held five hoods high, and one hood left" or whatever.
Even his Burris "plex" scope is done after 500 yards or so, unless you push the zero way out there. And that's not what we are practicing for, the point is to be able to judge distance and dope wind "old school".

There's supposed to be a cool range around Spokane, with steel animal silhuoette targets to 1000, open to the public. Red's been but I haven't.

You said it all dude, "its all shot placement.  An animal is not going to know the difference between a  high power handload and a factory one,  when you put it in the vitals!"

They won't even know if it's a low powered factory load. ;)
In the youth hunts, deer everywhere die, with factory reduced recoil loads.

Red's thing is long distance, mine is light loads.

Krusty
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Offline nyhunter

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Re: 30-06 and light loads
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2007, 04:34:34 PM »
Hey buddy sounds like your going to get into some real shooting. 300 plus is starting to get out there. It's a lot of fun. i totally agree with the response that 30-06 at 300 yards not really a problem. I've stretched it to around 450 but that is about it in the field. At the range you can play a lot with different loads. I'm looking for a new 308 not really sure what i want right now just starting to look around. Next time your around this neck of the woods maybe we can shoot my buddies range (800meters) lots of fun

 


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