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Author Topic: range.  (Read 11376 times)

Offline MountainWalk

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range.
« on: June 23, 2008, 11:01:16 PM »
how far away will you shoot a bear with a rifle. do you take longer shots at elk and deer than bear? do you shoot for lungs or shoulders?
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Offline mossback91

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Re: range.
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 11:06:03 PM »
HEADSHOTS

Offline Michelle_Nelson

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Re: range.
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 11:21:20 PM »
Well considering I have never taken a shot at either Elk or Bear I may not be of any help. 

Though with any animal I try to get as close as I can.  Preferably within 100 yards.  If I don't feel good about the shot (doesn't matter how close I am) I don't take it.

Offline MountainWalk

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Re: range.
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 11:24:16 PM »
i dont really have a hard and fast rule, but with a bear, 150 yards max. but i always try to get closer, thats for sure. but as with elk, i never try to get closer than 15 yards or less.
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Offline billythekidrock

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Re: range.
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 04:54:44 AM »
I have shot both bear and elk just beyond 200 yards and within 30 yards with my .270.  Heart/lung area is my target usually, though I have purposefully busted elk and bear in the shoulder as well. My brother lung shot a bear over 350 yards with my .270 years ago and he walked in a figure 8 and layed down on the spot.




Offline GoldTip

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Re: range.
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 06:32:36 AM »
I don't limit myself by animal as far as the range.  Bears and deer and elk all die quite quickly with a well placed shot.  I limit the range based upon whether or not I feel I can make the shot, not on what type animal it is.  Bears, deer or elk, I shoot'em through the shoulders with a rifle.
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Offline Head-shot

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Re: range.
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 06:39:57 AM »
I agree with gold tip, placement is key. I have no doubts out to about 300yds, but at that range I t would be a lung shot. inside 150 then I think it depends on what the animal is for meat or trophy. Trophy are vital shots and meat is a head shot.
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Offline Intruder

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Re: range.
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 07:57:39 AM »
I don't limit myself by animal as far as the range.  Bears and deer and elk all die quite quickly with a well placed shot.  I limit the range based upon whether or not I feel I can make the shot, not on what type animal it is.  Bears, deer or elk, I shoot'em through the shoulders with a rifle.

Me too....

Offline mossback91

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Re: range.
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 10:56:42 AM »
I dont like shoulder shots

Offline GoldTip

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Re: range.
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 11:41:33 AM »
Mossback, why not?
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Offline Broken Arrow

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Re: range.
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 02:06:14 PM »
Never shot one with a rifle, just a bow. With a bow I obviously shoot for lungs. I have had a couple of friends ask my big ass to help them pack out their harvest (kind of like when folks need to move...they ask the big guys for help). Both bears I assisted on we both shot in the front shoulders. Both bears didn't go far. One was a 200 yard shot, one was close to 300. Both were proficient marksman.

Online Houndhunter

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Re: range.
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 03:14:46 PM »
i will admit i tried to throw lead at one atleast 600yrds away, i was 12  :chuckle:. i kept pulling the trigger and couldnt figure out why it wouldnt fire, had the saftey on :chuckle:

now though the same as anything 400yrd max, but i probably wouldnt go over 300

Offline Machias

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Re: range.
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2008, 03:19:44 PM »
I have been lucky enough to take 7 so far, longest shot was 14 yards.  I have missed two bears, both with a rifle, one was 80 yards and one was 25 +/- yards away.....  :bash:  I really need to stick with a bow!
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Offline saylean

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Re: range.
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2008, 11:55:57 PM »
Usually, my shots are well under 100 yards, for rifle. I aim for bears, same as I would for deer or elk, behind the shoulder, get the lungs, provided the shot is offered.

But, like most on here say, if it isnt a quality shot, regardless, I wouldnt take it. For example, last year I had 2 bears within 15-20 yards and I didnt fire once....one was on the run (I had a bow) and the other, he stood up next to me in chest high brush, but the sun was blinding me and I wasnt sure if he/she had cubs...

Offline mossback91

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Re: range.
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2008, 11:57:37 PM »
Animals can go a LONG wyas on a broken shoulder mayb not deer but elk can for sure

Offline waoutdoorsman

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Re: range.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2008, 03:24:45 AM »
Animals can go a LONG wyas on a broken shoulder mayb not deer but elk can for sure

Its amazing the will power of some animals to get the heck outa dodge. I have personally seen a mulie bound up and over a ridge on three legs (one broken shoulder) just as fast as if it had four.
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Offline Intruder

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Re: range.
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2008, 10:21:42 AM »
Animals can go a LONG wyas on a broken shoulder mayb not deer but elk can for sure

Not speaking for Goldtip but my take on shooting for a shoulder is not to merely to break it but to break it in addition to a heart/lung shot.  I haven't seen a more reliable way to anchor an animal than that to breakdown a shoulder and take out their lungs and or heart... assuming the angles are right.  Spine or head shot but I don't consider that a viable high % option.

Quality bullet is a must.  Something that breaks apart may not penetrate adequately to get to the vitals.

Offline GoldTip

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Re: range.
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2008, 11:20:48 AM »
Well certainly they can go a long ways on three legs, no doubt about that. But if your shooting an appropriate weapon for said animal with appropriate bullets, you generally break both shoulders and smash through the hearts and lungs as well, anchoring said animal at the spot of the shot, resulting in no need for blood trailing.  I would submit that most bullets which would come apart on the shoulder of an elk will also start to fragment on his rib bones resulting in a possible single lung hit as well, which would easily result in an animal going a very long ways and probably not being recovered.

My father as an outfitter always recommended the middle shoulder shot and his reasons were threefold.  First if you hit where your aiming, it will result in little to no blood trail to follow, because animal generally goes down directly with no working front shoulders.  If you hit a little back of the shoudler you have just hit the heart lung space directly resulting in a dead animal in short trail.  If you hit a little forward with a rifle then you have just found the dip in the spine and paralyzed the animal, thereby no need to look any further, the animal is right where you shot it.

Conversely, if you aim for the heart and lungs and misjudge the angle or shoot just a little back you have got a liver/maybe gutshot animal which will go a very long ways.  Believe me I am not suggesting a shoulder shot on deer/elk/bear with a 243 or even a 270 loaded with ballistic tips.  But there aint a black bear/elk around who wont have two smashed shoulders and torn up lungs from a shoulder shot with 30-06 shooting 180gr good old core lokts, believe me, I've seen it just a couple times.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2008, 11:39:06 AM by GoldTip »
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Re: range.
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2008, 01:03:08 PM »
No doubt that an 180gr Core LOKT from a 30-06 will break both shoulders but it is going to leave a BIG mess and ruin a lot meat.  A couple of inches further back does the job with a lot less waste.    :twocents:

Offline GoldTip

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Re: range.
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2008, 02:06:26 PM »
True enough, the shoulder shot does result in more damaged meat.  But an animal that can't run off on his two broken front shoulders is an animal that is never lost either.
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Offline RubblesPH

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Re: range.
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2008, 09:26:47 PM »
The animal doesn't seem to change the shot distance.  If I believe that I can make the shot with good placement and I'm shooting a load that will have great penetration on that animal, I take the shot.   

On a bear, I like the quartering towards or away shot and shooting through at least one shoulder.  This typically guarantee's a double lung and breaks down a shoulder.  Sometimes, depending on the angle, it takes the heart out also.  The last bear I shot (300 win mag, 180gr) went through the shoulder and exited behind the last rib.  Minimal meat loss, a broken shoulder and double lunged at 311 yards. 

It's worked well for me in the past so I'm reluctant to change.   :twocents:

Offline Abolt338

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Re: range.
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2008, 01:54:37 PM »
I don't limit myself by animal as far as the range.  Bears and deer and elk all die quite quickly with a well placed shot.  I limit the range based upon whether or not I feel I can make the shot, not on what type animal it is.  Bears, deer or elk, I shoot'em through the shoulders with a rifle.

Me three...

Most of my bears are within 30 yards.  But last year's bear came on opening day, across a tight draw, level shot, no wind, broad side at 275 yards ranged.  One shot with a .338WM 210gr Nosler Partition and she was done for.

It all depends on the situation.

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Offline MountainWalk

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Re: range.
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2008, 10:52:31 PM »
i generally try to refrain from taking a shoulder shot on bear. dont know why. just personal exp. i guess. that said, with a good bullet, i'll try for the shoulder shot every time i can on elk. lung shots if possible on deer..

i dont like things getting too close. seems like their radar goes into overdrive and its too easy to get busted.. i'll shoot at elk and deer farther than a bear. again, just from personal exp. besides, its quite thrilling to get closer to bears.
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Offline Bofire

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Re: range.
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2008, 12:04:14 PM »
If I feel comfortable with the shot, if I can get a good hold and angle. I take it. What I aim at depends on the "comfort". For animals of that size, I shoot a 300 win mag. If I am 'just hunting" I may have any number of calibers. Once again considering that, if I am comfy, I take the shot.
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Offline cohoho

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Re: range.
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2008, 10:14:40 PM »
Always have shot bears within the 100 yards range as I do with 90% of anything that I have shot with rifle..  Do not like to take the chances....  There are the exceptions for sure like sheep and antelope, but most others have been able to close the gap to my safety zone.  Seen too many "good shot" folks lose animals by taking the beyond boundary shots and wound and utimately lose the animals they are after.  Again, not to start the war of who can shoot at what distance and thump their chest the most, I personally think the long shots are not effective in the field by 90% of shooters/hunters, most of the time, too big of a gun for them to shoot comfortably and by going smaller and a little more acurrate for them gun, puts the brakes on their internal pride......... yea there are those that can anywhere, anytime, but they are exceptions for certain... 

Offline Intruder

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Re: range.
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2008, 10:04:37 AM »
cohoho.... There is a lot of good advice in your post. Although I tend to take the position of defending long shots, your take on things is pretty much spot on. 

Offline boneaddict

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Re: range.
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2008, 10:23:51 AM »
Longest shot I have taken on a game animal was with a bear.  Eventhough Michelle hasn't taken any of these animals, I follow her rules.  I don't take the shot unless I am comfortable.  I was comfortable with it and there was no way to get closer.  It could have went bad but it didn't.  FOr that particualr kill, the part about getting closer was less important than the rest of the hunt was for me.   That being said, predators can take alot of abuse and still live, and it takes alot to get them down at times.  More so than any other animal, the first shot counts with a bear.  Make it a good one.

I had the perfect rest.  My breathing was under control, light wa in my favor, and I had the shot.  I put the crosshairs right between his ears at the top of his head and sent that 180 grain handload flying.  It smucked him square int eh whitespot on his chest and he died within 30 feet.  More blood than I have seen out of any animal.

Offline Gobble

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Re: range.
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2008, 11:00:17 AM »
I passed up a shot on a mulie on a High Buck hunt that haunts me to this day even though I know I did the right thing. It was a evening hunt and this huge (I'm guessing 30+") 5 x 5 buck was standing on a hillside across from us, I'm guessing it was 500 + yrds. I practice very long shots and felt that we could have taken it but the hillside was across one other point an I wasn't sure exacly how to get there from where we were at, plus it was getting dark and I didn't want to take a chance on losing the animal.

Offline MountainWalk

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Re: range.
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2008, 08:55:54 PM »
i have a few long range oppurtunities that i passed up that still i give myself grief. they were on elk. most likely, i could have taken them without a problem, i suppose. but like in a previous post, it was getting close to dark. i figured i would have another day. wish i would have.
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Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2008, 09:36:39 PM »
Animals can go a LONG wyas on a broken shoulder mayb not deer but elk can for sure

Its amazing the will power of some animals to get the heck outa dodge. I have personally seen a mulie bound up and over a ridge on three legs (one broken shoulder) just as fast as if it had four.

my buddie shot a doe once with his bow. you could hear the shoulder snap. we watch the doe roll down a hill and get up and run for about 800yds across a farmers field and it was like nothing happened at all.


Offline WildBear

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Re: range.
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2008, 08:46:45 PM »
Where I'm hunting Bear you more than likely to see them 100yds or less... few spots you could see down the road further... Buddy last year shot his bear 13yds a way with his .243. Bear dropped dead 30yds away, Lung shot.  Guess I'll be looking at just behind the shoulders when I get my shot...
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Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2008, 08:50:50 PM »
 

right now i can hit a pop bottle at 500yds 3 out of 5 shots.  but that doesnt mean i will shoot an animal that far.

Offline Broken Arrow

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Re: range.
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2008, 07:42:47 AM »
3 out of 5 at 500 yards on a pop bottle? Man that's some incredible shooting. I personally know 2 snipers who said they would struggle with those odds with a hunting rifle.

Offline PolarBear

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Re: range.
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2008, 08:01:02 AM »
Not very competent snipers if they can't hit a pop bottle at 500 yds, imo.  What I cant stand is these folks who think that if they can hit somewhere on a paper plate at 150-200 yds that it is "good enough".  Or only shoot their rifle the weekend or day before season.  Those are the same dudes that I hear about missing a "huge buck" at 200-300 yds.  I have shot rabbits and coyotes at 600+ yards but would not go farther than 350-400 on deer or elk.  There are too many variables to take a risk on laming an animal.  I hunt archery only now so it is a moot point as far as I go.

Offline Broken Arrow

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Re: range.
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2008, 08:27:30 AM »
A pop bottle is 2.5 inches wide. I guess IMO, i will take there advise since one of these individuals is actually a course instructor. Sniper rifle one thing, your deer, bear and elk rifle another. My point was this is some great shooting, that most guys, including folks I know in the military, would have a hard time re-produsing with you standard 06 and factory loads.

Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2008, 09:55:57 AM »
3 out of 5 at 500 yards on a pop bottle? Man that's some incredible shooting. I personally know 2 snipers who said they would struggle with those odds with a hunting rifle.

i highly dout they are direct hits, maybe 1 out of those. im not that great of shot but yesterday i consitantly hit that bottle at 500yds. and i was simply amazed.

that was not with my rifle, that was with a 308 sighted in at 300yds, and a bullet drop reticle scope out to 100yds.




Offline Head-shot

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Re: range.
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2008, 09:59:35 AM »
AHH HA! The cat's out of the bag! :chuckle:
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Offline MIKEXRAY

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Re: range.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2008, 11:47:49 AM »
The point is Banwalker was happy with his shooting and we should be happy for him without being so critical about the facts. I'm signing off now and going out with my super model wife.

Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2008, 03:33:38 PM »
AHH HA! The cat's out of the bag! :chuckle:

hehe i never said it was with a hunting rifle.

fact is i just got back from shooting today WITH my hunting rifle. i hit that pop bottle at 400yds 1 time out of 10 shots. and i think it was just dirt that actually hit the bottle. my rifle was only bore sighted at 100yds though, and i never did get it truely sighted in at 100yds.

my damn scope mount came loose AGAIN!!! damn leupold anyway. so now i gotta take it back down to Oe and get it bore sighted and ONCE AGAIN go try and get thie POS sighted in.

blah.

maybe i should just take my buddies savage tactical 308 this year for hunting  :chuckle:

Offline littletoes

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Re: range.
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2008, 11:41:29 PM »
 BankWalker, move that bottle out to 850 yards, and we might have some fun...



depending on the wind....I might get 'er inside three shots. But you never know with the wind......
self-imposed limits are just that, but a man has got to know his limitations.....and the prices of precious metals (lead & Copper), sure make it hard to practice much.

now where did I hear that??      ;)

BW, since you live in this area, maybe there are some boys you might just want to meet? suppose they would have to be asked too, and with a name like that.....its kinda like saying IRSwalker 'ya know....hehehe, all kidin aside, maybe a few might show for a shoot in spokane at the end of the month, never know for sure.
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Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2008, 10:27:49 AM »
nice, i would love to get something like that.

i found out yesterday though. that i not as great of a shot that i was the other day.

my buddie braught out all his long range rifle and we had targets setup all the way to 1000yds down some powerlines.

i was good out to 400yds, then fell off very quickly and never hit a single thing last 600yds. one of the guys shot a crow at about 1300yds with a 300 remington ultra mag. AMAZING.





BankWalker, move that bottle out to 850 yards, and we might have some fun...



depending on the wind....I might get 'er inside three shots. But you never know with the wind......
self-imposed limits are just that, but a man has got to know his limitations.....and the prices of precious metals (lead & Copper), sure make it hard to practice much.

now where did I hear that??      ;)

BW, since you live in this area, maybe there are some boys you might just want to meet? suppose they would have to be asked too, and with a name like that.....its kinda like saying IRSwalker 'ya know....hehehe, all kidin aside, maybe a few might show for a shoot in spokane at the end of the month, never know for sure.

Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2008, 10:32:12 AM »
on a side note though. ive wasted enough ammo the last 3 trips trying to get this damn rifle sighted in. and every time my mounts have loose. i tighten them up really good get the gun bore sighted and after 10 shots the rear sight with the windage adjustment come loose AGAIN.

time to put the crap weaver mounts on again i guess.

Offline littletoes

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Re: range.
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2008, 07:12:37 PM »
hmmmmm...never had that problem myself, but don't pay anybody to bore sight your bolt action rifles any more, just use your kitchen table, and a good set of bags.

Look through the bore at some kind of spot, maybe something in the neighbors tree, just make sure you can recognize it from the bore to scope, and keep it centered (good bags help here). From there, center your cross hairs on the object without moving the gun. When looking through the bore, stay back a bit from the gun, don't get right up next to the action. Next step go to the range, 100 yards is what I use, and while using some good bags, fire 1 round. Hopefully you held center of your target! You should be within 6" of the bull, I've been quite a bit closer on several rifles. Now take your crosshairs and run them to cover the bullet hole, making sure the rifle never moves from the original position.

Your second shot should be in the bulls eye, if your mounts aren't loose that is. If they keep comming loose, and like you said, they are good Luppy's, and have never been over torqued by somebody, or are being under torqued, I would take them back. Something has got to be wrong, and Leupold will stand behind its product, otherwise, I don't have a clue what might be going on.
I should maybe add, I have never used lock tite on any of my scopes, rings, bases, etc. Jut to add, before you ask. 
"The People of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the Courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln

Offline bankwalker

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Re: range.
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2008, 07:57:09 PM »
hmmmmm...never had that problem myself, but don't pay anybody to bore sight your bolt action rifles any more, just use your kitchen table, and a good set of bags.

Look through the bore at some kind of spot, maybe something in the neighbors tree, just make sure you can recognize it from the bore to scope, and keep it centered (good bags help here). From there, center your cross hairs on the object without moving the gun. When looking through the bore, stay back a bit from the gun, don't get right up next to the action. Next step go to the range, 100 yards is what I use, and while using some good bags, fire 1 round. Hopefully you held center of your target! You should be within 6" of the bull, I've been quite a bit closer on several rifles. Now take your crosshairs and run them to cover the bullet hole, making sure the rifle never moves from the original position.

Your second shot should be in the bulls eye, if your mounts aren't loose that is. If they keep comming loose, and like you said, they are good Luppy's, and have never been over torqued by somebody, or are being under torqued, I would take them back. Something has got to be wrong, and Leupold will stand behind its product, otherwise, I don't have a clue what might be going on.
I should maybe add, I have never used lock tite on any of my scopes, rings, bases, etc. Jut to add, before you ask. 

nah i never pay to have them bore sighted...

i dont have bags...so it makes the sighting in period a bit harder. finding something that the gun will rest steady on is the hardest part. then i also had a scope knock me out once when i was younger so i have this life long fear of getting hit again. and with that i "pull" the trigger instead of "squeazing" the trigger.

it takes me quite a few rounds through a rifle to get use to it, and eliminating that "pull" of the trigger.

the main problem im having though, is i get a good group at 100yds and call it quits. then find out my scope mounts come loose. then after tightening them the gun is off once again. and i have never once had this problem with leupold mounts.

 


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