Lets talk Battle Rifles!

[Mongo Hunter]

This last weekend I picked up a couple new long guns, don't want to say what they are quite yet but lets just say my previous AR15 problems are a thing of the past. anyways it got me thinking about .308 battle rifles and the possibility of getting one in the near future. I have had previous experience with the M14 but that bugger was heavy, and it was the SOCOM 16 version! And I did get a short time with the HK-91, one was a clone the other Im not sure, once again heavy but also "clunky" feeling. anyways I thought I would see what all my buddies here liked and why.

P.S. I left the SCAR H off for simple cost reasons, I can get 2 FAL's for the price of 1 SCAR H

[jay.sharkbait]

I have been lucky enough to have owned all four.

FAL- Beautifully designed and built rifles. They are reliable and easy to maintain and keep clean. Accuracy isn't that great due to the tilting bolt and sights being mounted on the lower receiver.

AR10 and derivatives- They can be all over the board. I think they have the greatest potential for accuracy, with the GAP-10 and LaRue OBR being the best 7.62 gas guns available.

HK-91/G3- Sheet metal dirty pigs. That said the PSG-1 and MSG-90's rock. But they better for what they cost.

M14/M1A- Great rifle and something even the Chinese couldn't screw up (sorta). If you like shooting prone with iron sights this is the rifle. Box stock Springfield armory guns are pretty good and the Ron Smith guns are legendary.

These are my biased opinions. 

[Heredoggydoggy]

Any of the above are good makers.  Just a matter of choice.  I've always preferred the varmint calibers, and at my age the big bores won't do my retinas any good, so I avoid them.  That being said, I have 3 FN pistols and an HK-94 (9mm) that I bought years ago.  (And it does get dirty, but there are lots of cleaner burning powders these days...)

[Alchase]

If it has to be .308 or (7.62)
I pick the HK SR9.
Or the CAR 14.

[Special T]

If i were to buy one it would be the Kel Tec RFB. Its a bull pup design that uses 10 or 20 rnd FAL mags Completley ambideztros and you can one with a 32in barrle that only has a 40" over all length. they aint cheep $1800 MSRP 

[12Gauge]

NO experience with HK or the FAL.  I'ver owned a M1A, (strickly Springfield Armory), couple of M14's semi auto version of course, still own a Socom 16.  Been around and shot the AR 10.

I do not think that you can go wrong with any of them. 

My preference is the M14 made by LRB Arms

Also the owner of ancient battle rifles, M1 Garands.  Can still be had for about $600 (field grade), from CMP.

[Alchase]

If i were to buy one it would be the Kel Tec RFB. Its a bull pup design that uses 10 or 20 rnd FAL mags Completley ambideztros and you can one with a 32in barrle that only has a 40" over all length. they aint cheep $1800 MSRP 

That is a sweet bullpup, how does it shoot?


The CAR 14, has a 12.5 inch barrel

[Alchase]

I have always wanted an AR-10 or variant, I have just not got around to build one.

[Special T]

Don't know how they shoot, never even seen one in real life. I personally think Kel Tec is the most innovative gun maker today. I think thier pistols are down right ugly. If i had the bank roll I'd order one of their KSG shotgun bull pups and thier RFG... That would only set me back about 3.5k tho. 

[Mongo Hunter]

If i were to buy one it would be the Kel Tec RFB. Its a bull pup design that uses 10 or 20 rnd FAL mags Completley ambideztros and you can one with a 32in barrle that only has a 40" over all length. they aint cheep $1800 MSRP 

Agree price is high and I've never had a lot of experience with Bull Pup's. Personally from the ones I have got to play with, I didn't like the ergos over a standard style rifle. There are some serious advantages to a bull pup don't get me wrong, just don't like how they feel, mag reloads felt slower especially.

[Alchase]

I also love most anything HK.
I would love to have an HK 416 as well.

My favorite weapon of any type is the HK MP5SD.

[hillbilli]

i've always been fond of the M1a (m14) series. I have the squad scout version, 18" barrel, standard flash supressor, scout mounted scope or standard. i've discovered a lightweight stock takes about a pound and a half off the rifle, and makes it reasonable to carry all day. I get 1" groups or close to it at 100yds with ammo it likes, and they've always been reliable for me. what else could you want? (yeah, I know- a less expensive version!!) I tried a SOCOM,  but the permanently attached muzzle break, combined with the shorter 16" barrel results in loud as hell, lots of flash, more lost velocity, and it doesnt take standard m1a gas system parts. My experience with FAL's have not been good brands, but rather Frankenfal parts guns-but I wasnt impressed with the accuracy or trigger pull. It was reliable, thats about all I could say. The HK's always run, but they are always heavy, and the sights and trigger always seem quite crude compared to the M1A. (and two of the most critical things to being accurate -is sights and trigger) 

[Yondering]

I've always liked the looks and handling of the M14, but the PTR 91 clone of the G3 is a great rifle for serious use. (They accept HK parts, and are built on HK tooling.) I picked mine up last summer, but they are even cheaper now.

Agreed that they need some trigger work, but the triggers can be cleaned up pretty nicely. A welded on scope rail is a big benefit as well.

[Mongo Hunter]

Lots of people liking the M14 style. Ill agree its one of my favorites just the weight really bugs me. not to sound like a wimp but a fully decked out quad railed M4 with EOtech, x3 magnifier, and a weapon light weights about as much as a bare M14. I did like the weight savings of the SOCOM but GOOD LORD that thing was loud! if Zombies invaded I would have to pack ear muffs lol. I think Im leaning towards the FAL but I need to get my hands on one first and maybe bump it off a few times.

[snowpack]

RFBs are great in concept and maneuverability.  Nice because if you are in the passenger seat, you can get out easily and even be at ready in the car.  Really accurate I thought.  I liked the balance too.  Only things I don't like are the way it 'ejects', the empties come out forward down a tube...if you have a quad rail, then the as soon as an empty hits the rail it can back up the ejection and jam.  A saw and a file on the top rail took care of that though.  Jams seemed slower to clear, but were rare.

[Heredoggydoggy]

I also love most anything HK.
I would love to have an HK 416 as well.

My favorite weapon of any type is the HK MP5SD.

I bought an HK 94 years ago--it's an MP5 with a 16" barrel and semi-auto.  Thought $500 was high at the time.  Not so now. 

[wadu1]

  M1A to me is still the best and made here. One thing that is a must have is the M14-E2 muzzle break it reduces muzzle jump. The E2 was the squad level weapon that was used in full auto same as a M-14 but with a different stock and the break. I made 10 round mags from a 20 and plugged them for 5 for hunting when I was young enough to carry a 10+ pound rifle all day in the woods.

[Maligator]

My first thought on your list was: "where is the Scar H" but then I read your p.s. Given your parameters I would choose the FN or the AR-10.

Now that being said, if I were going to choose a 308 battle rifle it would be the KAC SR-25 or the SCAR H. Those two are truly the definition of a 308 battle rifle IMO.

Have fun with whatever you purchased because in the end it's your weapon and it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.   

[denali]

I vote RFB as well,  compact, ambidextrous, a lot of fire power.  great brush gun as well.

[hillbilli]

Though there hasnt been much talk of it, since it is new- you might take a good hard look at the S&W M&P 10.. it's their take on the AR-10 concept. From what i have read it takes normal ar-15 dimension buttstocks and trigger group, as part of the reciever is scaled down from normal AR-10 dimensions. The result is an AR type carbine with an 18" barrel that weighs in at less than 8lbs, and all the tests and reviews I have seem on it say it is 1 MOA or so in accuracy (which we have come to expect from AR designs) Mags are supposed to be compatible with DPMS and Stoner SR-25. heres a link to a gunblast review of it, but there are many others; http://www.gunblast.com/SW-MP10.htm
  I'm probably not going to run out and buy one, as I am happy with what i have, but it's a good brand- and may be a good answer if your question is a battle rifle light and handy enough to carry up and down the mountain hunting..

[Mongo Hunter]

well this took the RFB off my radar lol

Kel-Tec RFB Issues

[Mongo Hunter]

So I have done a bit more research and thought I would share my findings.

SCAR-H: This rifle for sure hits just about everything I want. lighter weight, ergos are similar to an AR, recoil reduction, and most important, reliability with the piston system. HOWEVER that's a lot of coin to throw down and I honestly couldn't spend that in the near future.

FAL: A little heavier than the SCAR but still not a tank. Mags are pretty available, recoil is not super bad making follow up shots easier and are known to be reliable. down side is trying to find one that hasn't been Frankensteined. But James Yeager likes them and I have high respect for his opinion.

M14/M1A: little heavier but proven reliable and American made. not as big of a fan of the ergos (the safety mostly) and like I said the weight is starting to get up there.

AR-10: Expensive for a good reliable one but they are lighter than some others and controls are familiar.

Hk91: Too heavy, recoil is harsher and same problem as the FAL, Frankensteining.

RFB: don't like the Kel-Tecs to start with but looked anyways. I like the weight and size. don't like the reliability problems, the price or bull pup ergos.

If there is something I missed your you would like to add give let me know. thanks guys!

[Mongo Hunter]

Wish I had an extra grand lying around!

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=369058252

[hillbilli]

I always looked at the M1A as heavy as well, and for years my weight saving measure for hunting was an old GI wood stock with the metal buttplate removed and just a pad put on (takes a pound of weight off right there), but last year I bought a lightweight synthetic stock from springfield armory when I was at Camp Perry for Nationals, and this stock literally makes the rifle a pound and a half lighter than stock. (most of the synthetic stocks you see for the M1A are the old heavy GI solid fiberglass-sometimes with new paint. They are rugged, but they are not light) consider also magazine and parts availability- over the life of the weapon are you going to be able to get magazines? (can you find 12 magazines for it now?) what about parts? consider scope mounting as well. Hate to say it but the AR-10 has the M1a beat in scope mount options and ergonomics. Even though my squad scout has the forward mount, so you have the option of that or conventional scope- the conventional scope mounts pretty high..

[12Gauge]

Can you find 12mags for the M14/M1A?  , yes you can at 44mag.com.  (CMI) Checkmate Industries, mags at that.  Mags for these has never been cheap though.

An M14/1A on the average weighs 9lbs, its design made it about 1lbs less than the M1 Garand.  Most USGI wood stock are saturated with oils and is some what large/thick thus making them heavy.
The difference in the wood that you acquire will make a significant difference in weight.  The walnut is the heaviest, Birch and Beech are lighter.  The reason I know that is because I have built 2 M14's from scratch, (you know, buying all parts then assemble, including installing the barrel and headspacing) and I still have 12 USGI wood stock in my garage.

Have to concur with hillbilli on the scope mounting gets beat by the AR 10 and a scope mount for the M14 can cost $250. or more for the best ones.

Although I carried the M16 in the service and have owned AR's , I never caught (BRD), Black Rifle Disease, thank God.