Shooting hours ethics.

[scout/sniper]

I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.

As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.

[ucwarden]

I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.

As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.

But keep in mind; that is only when two laws conflict.  When only one law applies (as in most cases), the law is the law, as it is written

[scout/sniper]

I'm not debating this. All I'm saying is I use the actual sunrise and sunset times for my precise location. While I may not be using the "official" hunting hours as published by the WDFW, I feel I am following the intent of the law, which is that hunting hours are to be a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset.

As UC stated, leos use the law to the benefit of the accused.
I did not know that.
I feel you are following the law and making every attempt to be legal.
It needs to made clearer, many people are not like you and will exploit this loophole.

But keep in mind; that is only when two laws conflict.  When only one law applies (as in most cases), the law is the law, as it is written

Understood.
Thank you.

[BOWHUNTER45]

guess you can tell who's from the west side if they are talking about phones & alarms. I got a watch.

got that right ...everything on the wetside depends on your watch .... Do not dare shoot 2 minutes early in Skagit County ...they will hunt u down like a rabbit ...Things are a lot different over here on the wetside ...we can not run red lights ...can not take a leak outside  have to work in the city but many of us that hunt love going to eastside and doing some road hunting ---drinking some beer and raising some heck  dang wetsiders 

[pianoman9701]

So they don't have them newfangled phones with time on the east side? The wetsiders with phones are too high-falootin'? This is getting a little weird.  The debate has nothing to do with whether you use a phone, a watch, a GPS, or a frikkin' sun dial. It has to do with whether you're willing to shoot outside of the law. You don't have to be a rich guy to own a $14 phone that shows the exact time. But regardless of what piece of technology you use to tell time, you're either willing to go by the rules or you aren't. Justifying breaking the rules because you live in a certain part of the state is BS.

And BH, if you live here in Vancouver or up in Seattle, not being able to run red lights or pee outside is a good thing. Ever smell New York City in the hot summer? 

[sakoshooter]

Hunted the lower Columbia yesterday. 5 of us spread out w/3 groups of decoys. Had numerous chances to shoot birds early and YES, we could see them well enough to do so but we counted down to the EXACT time just as we always do because it's the law. Plain and simple.
We ended up short of our limit for all 5 of us. We could easily have completed our limits had we taken the early arrivals but chose to abide by the law as written.
For many people, human nature drives us to 'get away' with everything we can and that's the reason laws were passed to begin with. And that relates to many things. If you disagree with the written law, work on getting it changed, don't break it just because you disagree with it or think you're exempt.
I hunt Nisqually often and have sent many an email to the WDFW concerning the wide array of laws being broken on a regular basis out there but no one seems to care. From the early shooting, hunting inside the refuge, boats with no running lights and cleaning crabs in the parking lot. The few responses I receive are always the same, that they don't start work that early in the morning. Stupid answer, I know but that's the response I usually get.

[Moose4545]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

[sakoshooter]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.

[scout/sniper]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.

I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.

[sakoshooter]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.

I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.

I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.

[scout/sniper]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.

I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.

I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.

There is no reason for people to act like that.
I believe there is an 8 mph speed limit in dark.

[sakoshooter]

EVERY day I duck hunt, a group starts shooting from 5 to 20 minutes early. Rules are black and white to me. I only wish the wardens would be on the water early to witness this and write tickets. I also wish they'd enforce the "running lights" law on all these duck boats running around in the dark endangering other hunters lives. Same goes for the speed limit during hours of darkness - 8mph. Is someone's life really worth running 30mph in the dark to your spot? Remember that canoes/ kayaks etc aren't required to have running lights so watch for them out there.

I just want to point out that even though canoes and kayaks aren't required to have running lights they are supposed to have at least a head lamp on or a flashlight.

Actually there is not a requirement for canoes and kayaks but it's common sense. I hunt from a canoe quite often and keep a flashlight handy for any time I hear another boat/motor etc.
I hate the new fancy duck boats with big motors running in excess of 25mph in the dark with a dozen other rigs in the parking lot. Ya gotta know there's a lot of folks already out there. Pretty selfish to run like that in busy public hunting areas.

I have a fully equipped, very fast duck boat.
I run with nav lights and fog lights all on, and at slow speed in the dark.
I know there are small sneak boats out there in the dark so I am very cautious.
It's very hard to see even with all my lights on.
I don't need them to navigate, I follow my gps and could run in blackout mode.
I have them on so other boats can see me.
Small boats and canoes should have some lghts so you can be seen.
I would never get close to anyone on the water, but even a close call could swamp a canoe.
Please use lights, it's just stupid to assume that boats can see you in the dark and fog.

I totally agree with you on the lights issue. And glad to hear you drive with some common sense in the dark with your fast duck boat. I've had my share of close calls over the years and all from big fast boats/motors running hard in the dark or fog and me shining my flashlight in their eyes. I"ve never had a close call from another canoe or kayak or row boat. I think they don't comprehend their own speed when they run up on me while I'm shining a high lumen flashlight directly at them. Had many even drive at high speed thru my decoys with prop motor boats cutting and tangling up decoys lines all while I'm shining my light on them and cussing at them. One big green dual headlight duck boat in particular up McCallister Cr almost killed me a couple times but haven't seen him in a couple years now. Honda outboard if memory serves.

There is no reason for people to act like that.
I believe there is an 8 mph speed limit in dark.

My last answer(thanx to serious persistence)from the WDFW Enforcement, concerning the 8mph speed limit between sunset and sunrise was that the waters from the Puget Sound all the way to I-5(Nisqually Delta area) were considered 'navigable' so that the 8mph speed limit didn't apply. I reiterated the dangers but was told that they would not write a ticket to anyone screaming across the water in the dark in these areas. No speed limit in the dark on the Sound according to WDFW Enforcement per last year. Doesn't make a lick of sense but that's the answer I got.
Still doesn't excuse the absence of running lights but an enforcement officer has got to be there to witness it and they don't get up that early.

[scout/sniper]

That sucks sako.
There needs to be a "too fast for conditions" kind of rule.
I understand vessels traveling in navigable waters shouldn't need to be
slowed down under normal conditions, however, during certain times
of year there are idiots that think they need to scream across the water in
the dark and fog with no regard for smaller craft. It is a very dangerous
situation to be sure. It's not like they are heading out to sea, they are
speeding close to shore and in shallow water where non-motorized craft
are present. Even if you see them coming you likely won't be able to evade them.
Perhaps this is an issue we need to work on. I have no problem slowing down.
A day hunting isn't worth killing someone.

[scout/sniper]

Sorry, this thread is off track.
Back on topic.

[sakoshooter]

My apologies for the deviation. Won't happen again. I'm blaming Scout/Sniper.