Author Topic: 6.5 grendel issue (Read 11471 times)

Jburke · « **on:** March 16, 2014, 03:05:35 PM »

So I need input on this. The bolt carrier does not lock up like it should. It doesn't close all the way but the bolt seems to be as far forward as it should be, just not the carrier. It must be something with the bolt itself because I switched out the carrier itself with another and same problem. Any suggestions on what to check? It's a 264 LBC barrel with type 2 bolt.

Biggerhammer · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:28:49 PM »

What barrel is on it? Make/manufacturer?

CAMPMEAT · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:39:56 PM »

Dirty.....?

jay.sharkbait · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:41:31 PM »

Is this with a round in the chamber?

Heredoggydoggy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2014, 03:50:02 PM »

Is it doing it with factory ammo, or reloads? If reloads, and you are just neck resizing, you may be bulging the sides of the case just enough so the round is not chambering all the way. Full-length resizing is almost a necessity with autoloaders. Also check your case length on reloaded ammo. If the case is too long, which tends to happen with fired bottle-necked cases, the neck may be bottoming in the chamber before it fully chambers. Dirt was mentioned also--a dirty chamber might cause a round to not fully chamber, too. I wouldn't worry about the bolt, as long as you have a Grendel Type II bolt.

Warning! Do not try to run your brass into a full-length reloading die unless you pull the bullet first. Otherwise, you will get a stuck case in your die!

mountainman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2014, 05:39:05 PM »

Quote from: Heredoggydoggy on March 16, 2014, 03:50:02 PM

Is it doing it with factory ammo, or reloads? If reloads, and you are just neck resizing, you may be bulging the sides of the case just enough so the round is not chambering all the way. Full-length resizing is almost a necessity with autoloaders. Also check your case length on reloaded ammo. If the case is too long, which tends to happen with fired bottle-necked cases, the neck may be bottoming in the chamber before it fully chambers. Dirt was mentioned also--a dirty chamber might cause a round to not fully chamber, too. I wouldn't worry about the bolt, as long as you have a Grendel Type II bolt.

Warning! Do not try to run your brass into a full-length reloading die unless you pull the bullet first. Otherwise, you will get a stuck case in your die!

:yeah:and make sure the extractor is not bound and moves freely

Biggerhammer · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2014, 07:48:23 PM »

Quote from: jay.sharkbait on March 16, 2014, 03:41:31 PM

Is this with a round in the chamber?

Guess that should have been the first question.

jrebel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2014, 08:43:45 PM »

Quote from: Biggerhammer on March 16, 2014, 07:48:23 PM

Quote from: jay.sharkbait on March 16, 2014, 03:41:31 PM
Is this with a round in the chamber?

Guess that should have been the first question.

If there is a round in the chamber..it is doing the same thing my .223 was doing. I bought a different bolt carrier group and it now works great. I had previously worked on and upgraded the original extractor with no success. My new bolt carrier is a Fail Zero nickle boron and it seems to cycle very smoothly.

Good Luck and please update so everyone can learn.

Thanks

jrebel

Jburke · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2014, 10:59:59 PM »

Blackhole Weaponry barrel. All parts are new and unfired. Factory ammo, this is with a round in the chamber. The BCG closes like it should with an empty chamber.

carpsniperg2 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:17:51 PM »

Might be that the bullets are not seated deep enough. I have had that happen in the past with some factory loads.

jrebel · « **Reply #10 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:20:41 PM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 16, 2014, 10:59:59 PM

Blackhole Weaponry barrel. All parts are new and unfired. Factory ammo, this is with a round in the chamber. The BCG closes like it should with an empty chamber.

What did the brass look like? Is it messing up the head stamp portion of the brass? I have a thread with pic when mine was having the same problem....check it out....I think it was titled "ar help".

Jburke · « **Reply #11 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:27:05 PM »

I tried with two different factory loads, same results. It doesn't look like the head stamp is really messed up. The outer edge of the rim on the case is a little scratched though.

jrebel · « **Reply #12 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:32:09 PM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 16, 2014, 11:27:05 PM

I tried with two different factory loads, same results. It doesn't look like the head stamp is really messed up. The outer edge of the rim on the case is a little scratched though.

I haven't rebuilt my old bolt yet....but I am convinced the bolt was the problem. I did a bcm extracted spring upgrade and it didn't help.

Do you know someone that you could switch bolt carriers out with to see if that fixes the problem?

Jburke · « **Reply #13 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:34:56 PM »

I switched the bolt carrier itself out already with the one from my 5.56, only variable that stayed the same is the actual bolt and it's components, with the same result

jrebel · « **Reply #14 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:39:44 PM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 16, 2014, 11:34:56 PM

I switched the bolt carrier itself out already with the one from my 5.56, only variable that stayed the same is the actual bolt and it's components, with the same result

My bet if the bolt.....or extractor. For some reason it is not grabbing the cartridge and locking into the lugs. I am no expert but I am convinced my bolt or extractor is what went bad on mine.

Jburke · « **Reply #15 on:** March 16, 2014, 11:52:56 PM »

After reading your old AR help post, these appear to be the same issue. I'll tear in to the bolt tomorrow and see if I can confirm anything.

Jim the Plumber · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2014, 01:28:17 AM »

Try putting a round in the bolt face, out of the rifle. Make sure the bolt is the correct one for that chambering. Try installing n empty new brass in the chamber by hand, then close the bolt on it.
Check the lug race ways for debris.

Biggerhammer · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2014, 06:23:35 AM »

After trouble shooting the bolt. You might want to contact Black Hole. You may have a short chamber. I was asked to send my last barrel back due to a short chamber. I have heard of several others with short/ incorrect chambers.

Jburke · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2014, 08:15:34 AM »

Quote from: Jim the Plumber on March 17, 2014, 01:28:17 AM

Try putting a round in the bolt face, out of the rifle. Make sure the bolt is the correct one for that chambering. Try installing n empty new brass in the chamber by hand, then close the bolt on it.
Check the lug race ways for debris.

I actually did try this yesterday when I had taken it out shooting. When I realized there was an issue, I pulled out the BCG and the casings fit in the bolt face.

JohnVH · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2014, 08:21:04 AM »

my Grendel upper I bought complete, supposedly fired, but mine wouldn't close either with a round in it, come to find out they used a 7.62x39 bolt, instead of a proper 6.5 bolt.. that cured mine.

luvmystang67 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2014, 08:48:37 AM »

I haven't had success yet (at least not verified) but I got an AR Stoner 18" barrel from Midway, made by Satern. They all had short throats. Satern said that it made them per spec and that the factory ammo was out of spec, which I tend to believe, but I dont think I have enough influence to affect factory loadings. As a result Satern told me to send it back to them directly and they'd extend the chamber and provide me a new bolt that should fix my problem and enable me to use factory ammo. I have it back now, but it seems like the problem might be factory ammo versus SAAMI spec. Regardless, there is a common issue with this and you might need to get your throat scraped out, a new bolt, or handload and seat your rounds deeper.

I have yet to verify that mine is "fixed" because I haven't assembled things yet, but I'm feeling fairly confident now. I'll let you know how it works.

Rob · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2014, 09:31:17 AM »

I had the exact same issue with a BHW barrel in 6.5G. Have you tried a go/nogo gauge to verify headspace? In my case a dummy round chambered, but neither the go, nor the nogo gauge would chamber.

I contacted BHW and they verified the chamber was cut too short. I had melonited the barrel so they were unable to touchup the barrel. They instead recessed the bolt face a little and it now shoots fine. They also sent me a replacement barrel at no charge.

Heredoggydoggy · « **Reply #22 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:12:57 AM »

One time while shooting my .223 AR, I had a primer blow out, and the primer cup got scrunched into the bolt groove, just forward of the bolt fingers, and my gun would not chamber a round until I got the primer cup out with a dental pik.

Your bolt locks up on an empty chamber, so that's not your problem.

ARs are a simple design, but in order for them to work, every link in the chain has to be right!

Jburke · « **Reply #23 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:34:57 AM »

Quick update. I have determined it is not the chamber and is bolt related. I got a round to chamber, using the forward assist, although it took a lot more effort than it should. After cycle a few rounds by hand I have came to the following conclusions. The rounds are chambering, but the bolt is not locking up as it should. The rims of the cases are definitely being scratched and damaged. It also takes a little bit more effort to pull the charging handle back to unload the round after loaded.

Longshot_34 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:40:25 AM »

I had a similar issue with a model1 6.5sporter (Grendel clone). I discovered my ejector was a little bit long. I shaved it down a touch and all was fine afterwards.

jay.sharkbait · « **Reply #25 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:48:14 AM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 17, 2014, 10:34:57 AM

Quick update. I have determined it is not the chamber and is bolt related. I got a round to chamber, using the forward assist, although it took a lot more effort than it should. After cycle a few rounds by hand I have came to the following conclusions. The rounds are chambering, but the bolt is not locking up as it should. The rims of the cases are definitely being scratched and damaged. It also takes a little bit more effort to pull the charging handle back to unload the round after loaded.

I would check the headspace before shooting the rifle

Jburke · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2014, 10:52:46 AM »

I definitely don't plan to shoot anything out of it until the issue is resolved. Can someone tell me the difference in the Type 1 and Type 2 bolts?

Jburke · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2014, 12:26:33 PM »

New update. After reading suggestions on this and another forum I decided to try to load an empty case. Same problems, and just as difficult to extract. Well decided to give BHW a call and see what they had to say. Going to ship the barrel and bolt back and they will check it out to make sure it matches up and that there aren't any other issues that could be causing the issues. Better to have the experts do it than risk blowing it up.

mountainman · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2014, 12:29:36 PM »

Quote from: jay.sharkbait on March 17, 2014, 10:48:14 AM

Quote from: Jburke on March 17, 2014, 10:34:57 AM
Quick update. I have determined it is not the chamber and is bolt related. I got a round to chamber, using the forward assist, although it took a lot more effort than it should. After cycle a few rounds by hand I have came to the following conclusions. The rounds are chambering, but the bolt is not locking up as it should. The rims of the cases are definitely being scratched and damaged. It also takes a little bit more effort to pull the charging handle back to unload the round after loaded.

I would check the headspace before shooting the rifle

mountainman · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2014, 12:32:43 PM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 17, 2014, 10:52:46 AM

I definitely don't plan to shoot anything out of it until the issue is resolved. Can someone tell me the difference in the Type 1 and Type 2 bolts?

It is in the depth of the bolt face recess, typically .124 versus .136"

CAMPMEAT · « **Reply #30 on:** March 17, 2014, 01:31:10 PM »

Is it clean ? Mine did the same type of thing and I thought it was clean. I finally got the round out, took it apart and cleaned the lugs/races (?) with brake cleaner and then oiled it up, fixed.

6.8mmARHunter · « **Reply #31 on:** March 17, 2014, 02:06:16 PM »

There's some discussion over on another forum that might be relevant to your problem. I didn't read it all but is seems there are several different chamber versions, and now some barrels that were reamed with an out of spec. (short) reamer.

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?46066-This-was-surprising-6-5-Grendel-2&highlight=grendel

Good luck getting it sorted out.

sam

Jburke · « **Reply #32 on:** March 17, 2014, 05:36:14 PM »

More I read up on things I'm starting to wonder if it isn't a short chamber. The bolt shouldn't create any problems with the round not ejecting but it's noticeably harder to eject than it should be. I don't know if this will have anything to do with the bolt not locking up however.

Heredoggydoggy · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2014, 05:47:32 PM »

Hard to extract unfired rounds is usually either a bulged case or a dirty chamber. make sure your chamber is good and clean. Sometimes new barrels are coated with an anti-rust material that resists everything, including gun cleaning products. Campmeat's suggestion to use Brake Cleaner is a good one.

GLShooter · « **Reply #34 on:** March 19, 2014, 08:39:28 PM »

I have seen these before. First measure the bolt depth. Is it 0.125 or 0.135/136? I bet it is 0.125. You almost certainly have a Type II chamber. If your bolt is 0.125 all you need is the deep one. My 'smith has a bolt he will swap you.

Greg

Jburke · « **Reply #35 on:** March 27, 2014, 06:32:56 PM »

So quick update.
talked to Jason at BHW this morning and he said the headspacing was wrong on the barrel. He is making me a new barrel and matching a bolt to it. Should be a couple weeks but hopefully that fixes things.

Biggerhammer · « **Reply #36 on:** March 27, 2014, 07:41:09 PM »

Had a feeling it was a headspace issue. Glad they are getting it sorted out for you.

mountainman · « **Reply #37 on:** March 27, 2014, 08:11:50 PM »

Looks like most were correct on the issue..glad they are getting it corrected quickly!

Blacklab · « **Reply #38 on:** March 27, 2014, 09:22:39 PM »

Great news

Rob · « **Reply #39 on:** March 27, 2014, 09:40:35 PM »

Quote from: Jburke on March 27, 2014, 06:32:56 PM

So quick update.
talked to Jason at BHW this morning and he said the headspacing was wrong on the barrel. He is making me a new barrel and matching a bolt to it. Should be a couple weeks but hopefully that fixes things.

That's the exact same issue I had with my BHW barrel earlier this year (also a 6.5 G). Makes me wonder if one of their reamers is off.

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Author Topic: 6.5 grendel issue (Read 11471 times)

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