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Author Topic: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?  (Read 21916 times)

Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2014, 09:53:26 PM »
But this thread is about how to get the elk seasons back to September 8-21. Can you keep those thoughts flowing?

Absolutely, lets keep it real though and leave the fear mongering out of it. :tup:

Incidentally, I see nothing wrong with the same season setting that they came up with 8 years ago. Again, archers have nothing to whine about when it comes to seasons compared to the other user groups, and thats coming from someone that purchases a archery tag every year. :twocents:
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Offline Gamblin Guy

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2014, 10:31:23 PM »
phool,

I don't post much and generally don't disagree much with what you post but you have to consider that early archery elk/deer is the only season that has to deal with the last major camping weekend of the year either during or just prior to the opener.  I've sat in camp waiting for elk season to open on the Tuesday after, and even back when they opened us on the 1st and seen all kinds of stuff that the muzzy guys and the modern guys don't have to put up with. 

I agree that the muzzy and rifle seasons suck too but that's because in this state its all about $$$.

Bottom line, as least as far as I can tell, is that the WDFW doesn't care about anything but generating revenue and that is the number one priority.  They couldnt care less about the individual user groups, it's all about how much money they can make by selling special permits or whatever.

I would venture to guess that archery wont open on the 8th in 2015 as has been stated, just wait and see...they will come up with some excuse for opening archery elk earlier and the stick flingers will get screwed again. 

I've hunted archery for elk in this state since 1987 and every year it gets harder and harder for me to buy a license and tag. 

Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #52 on: April 08, 2014, 10:34:44 PM »
phool,

I don't post much and generally don't disagree much with what you post but you have to consider that early archery elk/deer is the only season that has to deal with the last major camping weekend of the year either during or just prior to the opener.  I've sat in camp waiting for elk season to open on the Tuesday after, and even back when they opened us on the 1st and seen all kinds of stuff that the muzzy guys and the modern guys don't have to put up with. 

I agree that the muzzy and rifle seasons suck too but that's because in this state its all about $$$.

Bottom line, as least as far as I can tell, is that the WDFW doesn't care about anything but generating revenue and that is the number one priority.  They couldnt care less about the individual user groups, it's all about how much money they can make by selling special permits or whatever.

I would venture to guess that archery wont open on the 8th in 2015 as has been stated, just wait and see...they will come up with some excuse for opening archery elk earlier and the stick flingers will get screwed again. 

I've hunted archery for elk in this state since 1987 and every year it gets harder and harder for me to buy a license and tag.

 Not sure where we disagree, I agree with pretty much everything you said. :dunno:
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Offline bobcat

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #53 on: April 08, 2014, 11:06:28 PM »
I'll bet money that elk season will open no earlier than the 8th in 2015. It's already been decided that they don't want archery elk season to be open during Labor Day weekend, so I sure don't see that changing.

Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2014, 11:09:04 PM »
I'll bet money that elk season will open no earlier than the 8th in 2015. It's already been decided that they don't want archery elk season to be open during Labor Day weekend, so I sure don't see that changing.
I agree, the real question is will it run through the 21st?

 I could see WDFW playing games and start the season on the 5th and end it on the 20th, then play up the fact that they increased the number of days in the field for us.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 11:15:31 PM by huntnphool »
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Offline bobcat

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2014, 11:17:32 PM »
No, I doubt it. That would be a Monday, and isn't that the day the modern firearm permit hunts would be scheduled to start? The problem is, there just aren't enough days in a month to have all the long seasons that everyone wants. We could do like Oregon does, I suppose, and have a month long early archery season, and no muzzleloader season.  :dunno:


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Offline hughjorgan

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2014, 11:34:04 PM »
From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

Offline elk247

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2014, 12:13:46 AM »
Just make it start on the second Saturday of Sept each year and run for 14 days.  This means it would end on a Friday and would not interfere with the next user group that would/could start on Saturday.  Still a floating start date, but much better dates to hunt each year.

ET
I would take this! But it will be difficult to sneak past the state biologists.  :chuckle: The best option seems to be a fixed date. A 13-14 day season starting on the 8-9th seems more realistic.  Also gives bulls a couple weeks to get 'er done before the smoke poles start. This still puts us in the woods into the 3rd week of September.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 12:11:09 PM by elk247 »

Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #58 on: April 09, 2014, 09:27:58 AM »
Just make it start on the second Saturday of Sept each year and run for 14 days.  This means it would end on a Friday and would not interfere with the next user group that would/could start on Saturday.  Still a floating start date, but much better dates to hunt each year.

ET
I would take this! But it will be difficult to sneak past the state biologists. The best option seems to be a fixed date. A 13-14 day season starting on the 8-9th seems more realistic.
:chuckle: Of course you would take that, so would every other archery guy. :chuckle:

 You guys just don't get it, and this is not directed solely at you 247, but at everyone that's making this request. When is the best time for archers to be in the woods, early September or late September? Although someone will argue for the sake of arguing, most here will agree it's later. Don't you guys think WDFW know this? Do you really think you can "sneak past" them? :chuckle:

 They will do whatever they can to back the start time up, while at the same time back the end time up as well, the latter being the highest priority to them. It will either come with "balance" or to protect the dept. from outrage by adding additional days on the front end, or they will simply remove some of those ending days and shorten the season, precedent has already been set.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 09:33:26 AM by huntnphool »
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Offline et1702

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #59 on: April 09, 2014, 12:17:49 PM »

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

Offline elk247

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2014, 12:31:37 PM »
I fixed it for you phool.   :chuckle: I don't expect to be allowed to hunt in late september. This thread is about the 2nd and 3rd week of september. That seems reasonable to me.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2014, 12:33:50 PM »
I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.
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Offline Jonathan_S

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2014, 12:42:30 PM »
I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.

 :yeah:  They hate the way I smell all month long   :chuckle:
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2014, 01:37:26 PM »
I don't care. I can scare elk whenever the season starts and ends. I'm damned good at it.
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2014, 01:41:57 PM »

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.
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Offline hughjorgan

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2014, 04:44:26 PM »

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.

The main reason to change it back to the later date in my mind is the chance to get some cooler weather later into September. Lots of guys are out there trying to put some meat in the freezer on the east side especially and cooler weather is going to make for a easier time caring for your elk. I don't really care about the rut, they will be talking all month long any how.

Offline et1702

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2014, 05:06:53 PM »

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET

So why the need to change anything then? 13 days is 13 days regardless what time of the month it is right? Just leave it starting the day after Labor Day and running 13 days.

Too hot, too dry, greater potential for meat spoilage, fire hazard and fire closures (as we've had the past couple years in a row), over crowding certain areas due to fires, etc.  Don't get me wrong, I've been archery hunting these amazing animals for over 35 years in most of the western states.  Each year for the past several years here in WA, I've usually tagged out on the first day or two.  Many others in my hunting party are also successful.  It's not that it can't be done at this time of year. 

But, being an archery hunter yourself, wouldn't you like to be in the woods when it's cooler and the animals are more vocal?  Enjoy a campfire with your buddies, etc.  It's just an exceptional time of year that I look forward too and start planning the next year as soon as the last season is over.  For me, it's more about the experience, than the kill.  I'll still be out there on Sept 2nd this year.  But, wouldn't you rather have a later start date too? 

In a perfect world, they'd open archery elk at the same time as archery deer (Sept 1 thru 22nd).  Personnally, I hate the Labor Day weekend closure.  While we are at it, the entire state should be open (i.e., any unit), rather than a few select units.  Spread everybody out.  But, that's another topic. 

ET

Offline et1702

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #67 on: April 10, 2014, 01:31:54 PM »
From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

Hugh, This is a good point too.  But, what isn't said is that the number of rifle rut tags in most of the areas just went from one to two permits. most years, success on these permits is near 100%.  So, it looks like WDFW is giving archery's big bull allocation to the user group that whined the loudest the last time they made changes and stuck us with the floating start date.  With Archery's average 10% to 20% success rate on big bull tags, that's 5 to 10 more Quality Bull archery tags (in each unit) that they just gave to the rifle guys.

ET

Offline dreamingbig

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #68 on: April 10, 2014, 02:52:41 PM »
ET,

I have said a few times on here.  It is outrageous!
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Offline hughjorgan

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2014, 04:05:42 PM »

From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

Hugh, This is a good point too.  But, what isn't said is that the number of rifle rut tags in most of the areas just went from one to two permits. most years, success on these permits is near 100%.  So, it looks like WDFW is giving archery's big bull allocation to the user group that whined the loudest the last time they made changes and stuck us with the floating start date.  With Archery's average 10% to 20% success rate on big bull tags, that's 5 to 10 more Quality Bull archery tags (in each unit) that they just gave to the rifle guys.

ET

Rifle hunters have seen opportunity expand while archers have had our opportunity slashed. In the GMU I hunt the bull permits have been cut in half since 2008. The pendulum needs to start swinging back in our direction to balance the harvest out.

Offline Snapshot

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2014, 09:02:45 PM »
From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

If it can be shown to be true that big bull harvest is down since the 2008 change and that other user groups are now taking more than their allotment then we would have a very strong stance in reversing the 2008 decision. At the time the decision was made it was said that the change would be a test to find out if it would make mature bull harvest equitable. If the pendulum has swung too far and archery hunters are now trailing in the taking of adult bulls then it is time to make corrections.
I'd just like to remind everybody that it's about the hunting, not just the killing. In other words, it's about the total experience, the sport itself and the challenge involved. Bowhunting, done right, is a justifiable and honorable pursuit. Done for the wrong reasons, simply chalking up kills and seeking personal glory, it's taking away rather than giving back to a principled way of life that has to be experienced to be understood. G.StCharles

Offline dreamingbig

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2014, 01:51:29 PM »
Do we get to change the definition back to 6+ points too?


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Offline Snapshot

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2014, 06:50:27 PM »
Do we get to change the definition back to 6+ points too?


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I think they should define a Mature Bull for the sake of harvest stats the same way they define a Mature Bull in the Game Management Plan. It is foolish to lump the 5 point Immature Bulls (raghorns) in the harvest stats. I hope the Department straightens that out. If the Commission is shown the inconsistency they might have no choice!
I'd just like to remind everybody that it's about the hunting, not just the killing. In other words, it's about the total experience, the sport itself and the challenge involved. Bowhunting, done right, is a justifiable and honorable pursuit. Done for the wrong reasons, simply chalking up kills and seeking personal glory, it's taking away rather than giving back to a principled way of life that has to be experienced to be understood. G.StCharles

Offline huntnphool

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Re: How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2014, 04:06:51 AM »
Yep, classic WDFW, they passed their chalk agenda.  No surprises; they only change what they want to change during a 3yr season package.


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