Big Game Hunting > Wolves
Wolves and Livestock:The Never Ending Battle
jasnt:
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
everything wolfbait posts idahohunter says its a lie. Wolfbait could start a thread about the sky being blue or the earth round and idahohunter would say nay. Then start throwing in the foil hat guy. Any more I can't take Idaho hunter serious on any matter!
mountainman:
--- Quote from: jasnt on June 01, 2015, 02:17:53 PM ---
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Gringo31 on June 01, 2015, 01:38:24 PM ---Idahohuntr should probably set down his stuffed animal "wolfy" and read the entire article before he plays the "I know more than everyone else" card :twocents:
--- End quote ---
everything wolfbait posts idahohunter says its a lie. Wolfbait could start a thread about the sky being blue or the earth round and idahohunter would say nay. Then start throwing in the foil hat guy. Any more I can't take Idaho hunter serious on any matter!
--- End quote ---
:yeah:
bearpaw:
--- Quote from: idahohuntr on June 01, 2015, 06:21:09 AM ---No wolf hunting in wyoming in 2014 and lack of wolves in Utah or even southern idaho is not because of some invisible rancher fence.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: WAcoyotehunter on June 01, 2015, 07:54:57 AM ---OK- I get that ranchers want wolves controlled, and I get that hunters want wolves controlled. As groups (hunters:ranchers) we seem to have few other common interests. If hunters and ranchers can work together for wolf control, that's great. We should. But we should also recognize that Ranchers and Hunters have different interests for wolf management. The end result might look the same, but the motivations are clearly different.
To say that ranchers are the reason there are no wolves in Colorado and Utah is disingenuous and helps the writer lose credibility right of the bat.
--- End quote ---
I don't know if you are naive or just don't want to admit the fact of what is happening across the west. I certainly think you guys are incorrect, here's why:
Southern Idaho and Utah are big ranching country. I have spent most of my fall and winter in both of those states since 1997 and know a few ranchers in certain areas of those states. But the vast majority I do not know and probably will never know them. Out of the small number of ranchers that I do know there are two ranchers in southern Idaho that have reduced the wolf threat and one rancher in Utah who has reduced the wolf threat. Two of those had livestock killed before they took care of the problem and the other reduced the threat before he lost livestock. I've also heard of additional wolf reduction "word on the street" but nobody is saying who. I operate in 7 F&G units in southern Idaho and a dozen units in Utah, so my guides and I see how many wolf tracks there are in many of those areas. I can say this, I know of more wolves that have been removed by ranchers than what we know are alive in those same areas right now. Please keep in mind that I don't know the vast majority of ranchers and local residents and have no idea how many wolves they may have removed without saying a word to anyone.
Dr Charles Kay is a professor at the University in Logan, I don't know him personally but he is a greatly respected man. I think he explained ranchers and wolves perfectly and I have specifically pointed out facts and reasoning why I think he is correct.
Washington is only in the beginning of this same cycle. The longer WDFW takes to drag out wolf management in NE WA the further this same cycle will repeat itself here in NE WA. I've already heard "on the street" of numerous wolves killed and nobody is saying who, people want it to happen, they aren't going to finger anyone for shooting a wolf, it's the only wolf management happening. Now a moose or deer poacher, yes people still report those poachers. My point is reinforced by the huge reward that was offered on local radio and in local papers by WDFW and CNW for info on the wolf poacher who killed the wolf at Deep Lake. Most local people laughed at that reward, nobody is going to report who shot that wolf. If they did it had better be kept quiet as they would be shunned by many people in the community.
In F&G management there is a term known as "social tolerance". I have talked about this "social tolerance" many times even though I may not have called it specifically that. You can walk into nearly any bar in any small town in Idaho or western Montana and strike up a conversation about wolves and learn all about local wolf management. It has been this way ever since Malloy shut down wolf hunting. That man caused more wolf management to happen than any other single person. So while wolf advocates thought they won they actually lost with that ruling as it set off a firestorm of "vigilante wolf management". Many people lost all confidence or trust in professional game management and that ruling was one of the main turning points for many people.
Disclaimer
Don't shoot me I am only the messenger telling you the way it is. Let me be clear, I have never shot a wolf and when I do it will be legal, I follow all wildlife laws, I buy wolf tags in Idaho so I can legally shoot a wolf when I get the chance. I also fully support wildlife management, I don't like to see what wolves and green leaning federal and state F&G Depts bowing to wolf groups have done to the public's confidence in professional wildlife management, I think it's unhealthy for our whole system of wildlife management. Having said that, I will also say that at this time I will not be the person to finger anyone for protecting their livestock from unregulated wolves. What people want to see is responsible wolf management by the agencies, I think most people are willing to see a few wolves on the landscape as long as they are managed so they don't impact livestock and ungulates. Currently what we have is wolf management dictated by urban wolf lovers who don't even want wolves where they live. That doesn't set well with people that have been forced to live with unregulated wolf numbers and especially people whose livelihood has been impacted. :twocents:
AspenBud:
--- Quote from: bearpaw on June 02, 2015, 08:18:48 AM ---
--- Quote from: idahohuntr on June 01, 2015, 06:21:09 AM ---No wolf hunting in wyoming in 2014 and lack of wolves in Utah or even southern idaho is not because of some invisible rancher fence.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: WAcoyotehunter on June 01, 2015, 07:54:57 AM ---OK- I get that ranchers want wolves controlled, and I get that hunters want wolves controlled. As groups (hunters:ranchers) we seem to have few other common interests. If hunters and ranchers can work together for wolf control, that's great. We should. But we should also recognize that Ranchers and Hunters have different interests for wolf management. The end result might look the same, but the motivations are clearly different.
To say that ranchers are the reason there are no wolves in Colorado and Utah is disingenuous and helps the writer lose credibility right of the bat.
--- End quote ---
I don't know if you are naive or just don't want to admit the fact of what is happening across the west. I certainly think you guys are incorrect, here's why:
Southern Idaho and Utah are big ranching country. I have spent most of my fall and winter in both of those states since 1997 and know a few ranchers in certain areas of those states. But the vast majority I do not know and probably will never know them. Out of the small number of ranchers that I do know there are two ranchers in southern Idaho that have reduced the wolf threat and one rancher in Utah who has reduced the wolf threat. Two of those had livestock killed before they took care of the problem and the other reduced the threat before he lost livestock. I've also heard of additional wolf reduction "word on the street" but nobody is saying who. I operate in 7 F&G units in southern Idaho and a dozen units in Utah, so my guides and I see how many wolf tracks there are in many of those areas. I can say this, I know of more wolves that have been removed by ranchers than what we know are alive in those same areas right now. Please keep in mind that I don't know the vast majority of ranchers and local residents and have no idea how many wolves they may have removed without saying a word to anyone.
Dr Charles Kay is a professor at the University in Logan, I don't know him personally but he is a greatly respected man. I think he explained ranchers and wolves perfectly and I have specifically pointed out facts and reasoning why I think he is correct.
Washington is only in the beginning of this same cycle. The longer WDFW takes to drag out wolf management in NE WA the further this same cycle will repeat itself here in NE WA. I've already heard "on the street" of numerous wolves killed and nobody is saying who, people want it to happen, they aren't going to finger anyone for shooting a wolf, it's the only wolf management happening. Now a moose or deer poacher, yes people still report those poachers. My point is reinforced by the huge reward that was offered on local radio and in local papers by WDFW and CNW for info on the wolf poacher who killed the wolf at Deep Lake. Most local people laughed at that reward, nobody is going to report who shot that wolf. If they did it had better be kept quiet as they would be shunned by many people in the community.
In F&G management there is a term known as "social tolerance". I have talked about this "social tolerance" many times even though I may not have called it specifically that. You can walk into nearly any bar in any small town in Idaho or western Montana and strike up a conversation about wolves and learn all about local wolf management. It has been this way ever since Malloy shut down wolf hunting. That man caused more wolf management to happen than any other single person. So while wolf advocates thought they won they actually lost with that ruling as it set off a firestorm of "vigilante wolf management". Many people lost all confidence or trust in professional game management and that ruling was one of the main turning points for many people.
Disclaimer
Don't shoot me I am only the messenger telling you the way it is. Let me be clear, I have never shot a wolf and when I do it will be legal, I follow all wildlife laws, I buy wolf tags in Idaho so I can legally shoot a wolf when I get the chance. I also fully support wildlife management, I don't like to see what wolves and green leaning federal and state F&G Depts bowing to wolf groups have done to the public's confidence in professional wildlife management, I think it's unhealthy for our whole system of wildlife management. Having said that, I will also say that at this time I will not be the person to finger anyone for protecting their livestock from unregulated wolves. What people want to see is responsible wolf management by the agencies, I think most people are willing to see a few wolves on the landscape as long as they are managed so they don't impact livestock and ungulates. Currently what we have is wolf management dictated by urban wolf lovers who don't even want wolves where they live. That doesn't set well with people that have been forced to live with unregulated wolf numbers and especially people whose livelihood has been impacted. :twocents:
--- End quote ---
People are going to protect their livestock and pets. All keeping that illegal (or extremely hard to prove as legitimate) does is keep it buried underground. It's one thing to have a discussion about a hunting season/limits/etc. It's entirely another to tell people they can do nothing about a wolf problem or that if they do they will most likely be burned at the stake legally and financially.
When you live in the sticks you have space, people target shoot, people shoot varmints, gun shots don't really get peoples' attention...been there, done that. If someone shoots a wolf and buries the thing NO ONE will know unless a person is incredibly stupid. That is reality. If a grouse hunter with a dog or a hiker packing heat with a dog is walking in the woods where no one is around, and a wolf shows up threatening their dog and they shoot it, do people honestly think that person is going to report it? No, most likely they will, at best, drag the corpse off into the bushes and get out of the area fast. That is reality.
The sooner the state recognizes that and backs off of it, the sooner the state can have a more realistic conversation about when and how to institute a wolf season.
KFhunter:
--- Quote from: WAcoyotehunter on June 01, 2015, 07:54:57 AM ---OK- I get that ranchers want wolves controlled, and I get that hunters want wolves controlled. As groups (hunters:ranchers) we seem to have few other common interests. If hunters and ranchers can work together for wolf control, that's great. We should. But we should also recognize that Ranchers and Hunters have different interests for wolf management. The end result might look the same, but the motivations are clearly different.
To say that ranchers are the reason there are no wolves in Colorado and Utah is disingenuous and helps the writer lose credibility right of the bat.
--- End quote ---
Ranchers and hunters don't share the same interests? Are you kidding?
They're joined at the hip. From private property hunting cattle ranch, hunting agriculture lands used to feed the cattle, open range grazing the list goes on.. one affects the other and quite frankly it's the hunters who benefit more from the hunter/rancher relationship.
Yes, we as hunters need to get behind the ranchers in the wolf fight as we do share a common end goal; who cares if we have different motivation.
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