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Author Topic: Found it! The correct fitting Nipple Cap combination - go to the end of thread  (Read 1103 times)

Offline Sabotloader

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For the past month I have recommended the TRESO nipple in a #11 configuration...

Recently I found a source for the TRESO AMPCO nipple - this is a get nipple EXCEPT for one thing.  The 'flash hole' is drilled to .028/29 which is great for the ignition of real BP or the Pyros - but I use T7 which takes more heat to ignite in really cold weather.  To cure this problem I order these nipples from Buffalo Arms in Ponderay, ID.  When I get the nipples I then drill the flash hole out to .031 - That works perfect even sub-zero weather. Here is a link

https://www.buffaloarms.com/1-4x28-treso-ampco-t-c-nipple-for-no-11-caps-tre115001

The nipple in the center is the 1/4x28 Nipple




This is proving to be incorrect.  I just recievevc 3 new ones and tried them for fit.  The nipple stack is to small to get a seal with a #11 cap. 

So this point I am back to the RST-S - stainless steel!  Probably another reason Track of the Wolf stopped carrying them.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 04:42:37 PM by Sabotloader »
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline MountainDevil54

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2017, 04:39:17 PM »
Not my favorite nipple. It does great with real black powder, but hang fire city with pyrodex rs. I went back to a Knight redhot nipple in my Mountain Rifle as the treso had way to many hang fires.

I just pinch my cap with the treso, but it is worrisome in the field.

Offline Harleysboss

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2017, 04:45:54 PM »
I just received 3 RST-S #11 nipples from Track Wolf. I ordered the 1/4x28 for my MK85 and LK93. They dont seem to want to start in the BP. Dont want to force them and screw the BP threads up. Any Ideas?? Matbe they sent the wrong size. The package was not marked. The RWS 1075 caps do fit really snug on the nipples though, have to scrape them off with a knife blade.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2017, 06:01:43 PM »
Not my favorite nipple. It does great with real black powder, but hang fire city with pyrodex rs. I went back to a Knight redhot nipple in my Mountain Rifle as the treso had way to many hang fires.

I just pinch my cap with the treso, but it is worrisome in the field.

Pinching the cap is a waste of time - the whole idea is to have them fit tight - stretch the convolutions in the cap and make them water proof on the nipple post.

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2017, 06:04:35 PM »
I just received 3 RST-S #11 nipples from Track Wolf. I ordered the 1/4x28 for my MK85 and LK93. They dont seem to want to start in the BP. Dont want to force them and screw the BP threads up. Any Ideas?? Matbe they sent the wrong size. The package was not marked. The RWS 1075 caps do fit really snug on the nipples though, have to scrape them off with a knife blade.

There is always chance they could have sent the wrong thread pattern - contact TOW and let them know - they work very well with their customers...

The cap being tight on the post is important in lousy weather... and yep for me the only way I get the cap off is to shoot it off or peel it off.
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline JL

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2017, 09:19:05 AM »
Myself and 2 others just finished running the TOW RST-S nipples w/ fffg for 7 days straight in the NE mountains based on Sabot's recommendation. I ran cci mag #11's and they ran Germans. Conditions were extremely wet the entire time. We saw downpours, sleet, snow, ice, etc...  temps were regularly sub freezing. Like us, the smoke poles didn't have the luxury of a warm cabin or motel room to go back to. At the completion of the season, every single one fired flawlessly. We all used knife blades to remove caps but imo, that's a very small hindrance if that's what's keeping moisture out. I'd suggest people use a new RST-S nipple for hunting. It's varied, but they seem to flatten anywhere from 6-12 shots in, which makes getting a cap on progressively difficult. You wouldn't want to be performing a reload in the field only to find that you need your knife to push it on.

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2017, 09:39:03 AM »
Myself and 2 others just finished running the TOW RST-S nipples w/ fffg for 7 days straight in the NE mountains based on Sabot's recommendation. I ran cci mag #11's and they ran Germans. Conditions were extremely wet the entire time. We saw downpours, sleet, snow, ice, etc...  temps were regularly sub freezing. Like us, the smoke poles didn't have the luxury of a warm cabin or motel room to go back to. At the completion of the season, every single one fired flawlessly. We all used knife blades to remove caps but imo, that's a very small hindrance if that's what's keeping moisture out. I'd suggest people use a new RST-S nipple for hunting. It's varied, but they seem to flatten anywhere from 6-12 shots in, which makes getting a cap on progressively difficult. You wouldn't want to be performing a reload in the field only to find that you need your knife to push it on.

And as a follow up that is exactly why I recommend the Knight capper of even the Traditions capper (available @ Sportsman) they have a solid piece of brass on the capper that allows you to exert pressure & push the cap on tight.

While this picture doesn't really show the correct nipple (the nipple is the pic is the old AMPCO) the correct nipple from TOW is Stainless Steel RST-S



If you look at this picture you can see the brass projection the cap rests on and allows you to install the cap with pressure on the nipple



And even more information

Well Darn! After all of this... I made a phone call to Knight

The new Knight Red Hot nipples #M900013 have been changed to give a positive seal on #11 caps - including the RWS 1075+. I suggested this several years ago when I first started using AMPCO's - even sent them a demonstration. Well apparently or maybe something positive may have happened. I ordered 4 of them when they get here I will test and post...

JL - thanks for the affirmation post... I really wish the AMPCO metal were available in the correct fitting nipple!!! It is so much stronger than the SS nipple



 
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 10:04:12 AM »
For any of that still might be following this topic... Another test nipple arrived today.

It is another TRESO but it is for the Colt Walker Pistol

It measures the same length as the TC TRESO .637



The RWS 1075+ does fit a little more snug like what I am looking for but in my mind not enough to serve the purpose...

More #11's arriving later....

In addition 54bore suggested trying a MSM Spitfire

Quote from: 54bore;4318498
Sabotloader,  You might give the MSM Spitfire nipples a try if overall length is what you are looking for? They are the longest nipple i have ever seen, (I wish i had measured it) I found 1 for my Lyman Great Plains Hunter rifle, that nipple was long enough that my rifle would not go to half cock. I target shot the nipple and i wasn't impressed with durability, I started a thread about them on Castboolits way back and most folks swore by them being tough, maybe i got a bad one? My absolute favorite nipple is the Treso Ampco nipples from Buffalo Arms, they are TOUGH and hold up extremely well

54 - I just called October Country in Hayden, ID  - talked to the people and I have ordered one for testing purposes.  I have never had one of these that I know of...



http://www.octobercountry.com/msm-spitfire-nipple-11/

Thanks - I will let you all know
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline MountainDevil54

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2017, 10:44:16 AM »
Ive used the hollow based spitfire for years. Good results but not quite as good as the knight redhot. That hollow base design i love, it really spreads the flame.

Hollow base nipple,

Hot Shot,

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2017, 11:40:01 AM »
Ive used the hollow based spitfire for years. Good results but not quite as good as the knight redhot. That hollow base design i love, it really spreads the flame.

Hollow base nipple,

Hot Shot,

I did not have that kind of luck with those hollow base nipples - 3 of them broke off at the top of the screw shank - leaving me with the nipple stack and the head of the screw in one hand and the threaded portion still in the BP...

Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Sabotloader

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Re: TRESO - AMPCO #11 Nipples - correcting my error
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2017, 02:53:15 PM »
Yesterday I ordered another test nipple from October Country Muzzeloading here in Idaho...

http://www.octobercountry.com/



This hardened Stainless Steel nipple was suggested by another forum member 54bore on another site.

Today the nipple arrived - I got to say I open the package not expecting it to work - BUT!!! It is an excellent fit!



The cap is tight and will be water proof

The nipple is longer than a stock Knight measuring .678 - which is long as compared to a stock Knight nipple

Flash Hole - the hole is small .028/29 and I will need to drill it out to .031

Again the down side is to get the nipple off the post you will need to shoot it off or peel it off with the edge of a knife.... 

The next step is to install it in DISC and see if the hammer/firing pin can hit the cap hard enough to drive it to ignition...

Still have some new Knight Red Hots coming for evaluation...

I just feel good finding one that works the way I prefer - thanks 52!
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Sabotloader

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This afternoon the new Knight Red Hot #11 nipples arrived in the mail today.

My curiosity took over and I decided to put them to the test...

With a capper I applied the RWS 1075+ cap on the nipple. Then tried to take it off with my fingers - didn't happen

The picture(s) hopefully will explain what I was testing for.



The flash hole is the correct size .031/32 - no drilling needed.

I think the search is over and the shooting/hunting can commence...
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline Buck86

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Very good info here.  I am glad to hear that the knight redhots will work.  I bought a couple last year but they didn't hold the cap very well?  Sounds like they fixed that which is a good thing!  Thanks for all your hard research and testing.  I will now be ordering a couple of knight redhots also.

Thanks Buck

Offline Sabotloader

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Just so uall know...

I will add a more information that I just found out about the Red Hots... They are hardened to a ridiculously hard number - something like Doc White use to do to improve life of his nipple/breech plug combination - so they really should be a lasting product...

With this last bit of information - I think I am even more satisfied with the new Red Hots... Now lets just hope Knight doesn't change contractors again... no wait!!! if I ordered enough of them now I would have to worry about it!
Keep shooting muzzleloaders - They are a blast!!

Offline teanawayslayer

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Thanks for the info sabotloader!
Happiness is being in the woods!!!

 

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