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Author Topic: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?  (Read 1412 times)

Offline Dave Workman

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Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« on: November 15, 2017, 12:23:49 PM »
I am passing this along without comment. Not even an emoji.

http://www.hcn.org/articles/opinion-hunters-its-long-past-time-we-stood-up-for-gun-control

"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer." - D.H. Lawrence

Offline Bill W

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2017, 12:28:06 PM »
I do not care for this article.  Are cars outlawed when operators have accidents or hit things on purpose.  No, it's the operator that has his license revoked or is put in jail.   It's not the gun causing the problem, it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Offline ribka

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2017, 12:42:32 PM »
I am passing this along without comment. Not even an emoji.

http://www.hcn.org/articles/opinion-hunters-its-long-past-time-we-stood-up-for-gun-control

High country news often carries anti gun articles and supports shutting down hunting seasons among some of their causes. It is a left wing rag with self important writers that consider themselves social justice warriors and write articles with no research or facts just their emotions. They are left wing, tree hugging, anti logging, anti oil, pro wolf, anti gun, anti hunting, anti rancher, white people are racist  kooks etc and are trying to change western culture to align with their whacky urban left wing  beliefs. 

we have a few members on here that would enjoy their publication :chuckle:

Offline Special T

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2017, 12:43:35 PM »
Lol the author works for ecologyprogect.org helping teach the youth about the environment.

"Throughout our courses, participants explore the complexities of land management and the process of collaborative decision making. They arrive as inquisitive youth and leave as empowered, inspired conservation leaders."

Plenty of emphasis of the great benefits of reintruced species for the betterment of all....lol

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Offline timberfaller

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2017, 12:54:23 PM »
"As a sportsman, I have to say that its long past time for us to stand up in support of stricter gun control laws. "

"As an elitist, I ......" is how he should have started this paragraph in his "opinion" piece!!

We have TO MANY gun control laws on the books now!!  The ones that would work are never enforced!!

He should really get back into reality more often!!
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Offline npaull

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2017, 01:13:22 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 01:14:18 PM »
I'd be willing to bet that the knucklehead author is a progressive liberal Democrat and/or a proud member of Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (BHA).

Just sayin'.  ;)
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Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 01:18:06 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

Rather than those of us that don't even remotely agree with you, why don't you proffer up some gun control ideas?
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 01:23:53 PM »
We risk losing our freedom from violence. God, what a complete turd article.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 01:28:41 PM »
God, what a complete turd article.

Succinct.  :chuckle: :tup:
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Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2017, 01:38:21 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.


It's not that any can't work - although that is ultimately proven true as those places with the most strict gun laws have the highest murder rates - it's that they don't even attempt to faithfully enforce the laws already on the books, and it largely results in those laws being just another burden on the lawful exercise of a constitutionally protected liberty.


Try this one on.  I begin slapping you in the face.  Understandably, you become alarmed, and you ask me why I am slapping you in the face.  I say never you mind, but if you pay me $50, I will stop slapping you in the face.  You disagree with the need for you to pay me to stop slapping you in the face, but you acquiesce and pay me $50, expecting the slapping of your face to end. 

It doesn't.  Instead, I continue, but slap you in the face harder and with increasing frequency, promising that if you pay me $50, I will stop slapping you in the face.  So you relent again, and I continue slapping your face. 

Ready to pay another $50? 

Offline ribka

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 01:41:32 PM »
Pretty simple solution

Start prosecuting all gun crimes on the state and federal level. State prosecutors often drop firearms charges in order to get pleas. On the federal level they need more AUSA's to prosecute federal firearms crimes and beef up straw purchasing laws. Just look to Chicago and to why they have such a massive firearms problem with such strict laws.

During the past 8 years Obama's DOJ changed federal sentencing guidelines and 1000's of violent and dangerous criminals were released early because certain ethnic groups committing crimes were wrongly over represented in our prisons. Obama claimed it was because of racist cops and prosecutors. You can see an uptick in violent crime the past few years due to these early releases. Violent crime has been dropping the past 30 or so years and that is changing now.   

Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 01:53:33 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

You realize there's never been a safer time to be alive on this planet, right? You realize you're buying into a hysteria completely created to make you think you're in danger, right?
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline DOUBLELUNG

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2017, 02:42:55 PM »
It's an opinion piece.  About which I have a dissenting opinion. 
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline Curly

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2017, 03:06:39 PM »
High Country News..........i wonder if it's a requirement to be high when writing articles to contribute to the publication? :dunno:
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Offline saylean

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 03:15:40 PM »
"Despite what the NRA might have us believe, hunting is not under attack, but our freedom from violence is."

Hunting is not under attack huh? Wow...that's news to me.

"..but our freedom from violence is."
Well, yes I would agree with that. Meaning, our right to protect ourselves from violence, by lawfully using our 2 amendment rights, is under attack. In fact, in this very article.

I would like to know how many suicides they think would be stopped if they took away guns? I am willing to bet...zero.
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Offline Bill W

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2017, 05:49:39 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

... is don't let them have them.

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2017, 08:24:28 PM »
Pretty simple solution

Start prosecuting all gun crimes on the state and federal level. State prosecutors often drop firearms charges in order to get pleas. On the federal level they need more AUSA's to prosecute federal firearms crimes and beef up straw purchasing laws. Just look to Chicago and to why they have such a massive firearms problem with such strict laws.

During the past 8 years Obama's DOJ changed federal sentencing guidelines and 1000's of violent and dangerous criminals were released early because certain ethnic groups committing crimes were wrongly over represented in our prisons. Obama claimed it was because of racist cops and prosecutors. You can see an uptick in violent crime the past few years due to these early releases. Violent crime has been dropping the past 30 or so years and that is changing now.   

I do not think this will slow the quest for gun laws. There seems to be no real push for gun laws based on one on one crimes. It all hits the fan though when one of these kooks shoots up a church or school or concert.
I have not heard any plan I thought would stop these incidents. If somebody comes up with something short of a Police State I would love to hear it and I think it would quell the agitation for gun control.
I am starting to feel we will end up with some type of gun control laws if these mass shooting incidents keep happening. It is inevitable because people are gong to demand something be done even if it is wrong.
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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2017, 08:51:56 PM »
Quote
it's the the wrong people having access to the guns.

Right.

And so... The way to stop the wrong people from having access is...? I'm fascinated to hear solutions that don't involve changing gun laws to be smarter and better. The idea that ANY gun control simply can't work, or that no legal changes should be done to better ensure that dangerous people don't get guns, to me just seems laughably boneheaded and stupid.

... is don't let them have them.
And don't let them have vehicles or knives or ......  There's just some real crazies running around because some people think they can rehab them with drugs and integration.  What do you do with legit crazies?  Back in the day, they went to the institution and were written off.

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 05:08:26 AM »
I'd be willing to bet that the knucklehead author is a progressive liberal Democrat and/or a proud member of Backcountry Hunters & Anglers (BHA).

Just sayin'.  ;)
Troll.  Just sayin' ;)

I don't know what the answer is to save lives and protect people from.being senselessly slaughtered.  It certainly starts with enforcement of the existing rules.  Another high capacity magazine ban might help crazy folks from being so effective. 

 


Offline bearpaw

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 06:05:02 AM »
Please no namecalling, you can have dissenting opinions and still follow the forum rules.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 06:31:07 AM »
Crazy people are the problem, guns are just a tool for them to use. If there were no guns it would be cars like was used in New York City, or knives like were used in that attack in China, or homemade bombs like are used in Europe, or anything else that can be used as a lethal weapon by the crazies to take lives. In many cases the crazies are known, but society fails to protect us from them.

My view is that most of these incidents could have been stopped by a good guy with a gun. In fact the Texas massacre was stopped by a good guy with a gun or it would have been worse. The author is obviously a left wing progressive who wants to push his views on the rest of us. They take young children, brainwash them with their left wing views, and turn them into social justice warriors. The author would likely rather have it where people are dependent on the police to respond, we all see how that has been working. I think the answer is for more Americans to arm themselves, proper firearms handling should be taught in schools and community centers, most citizens should be licensed to conceal carry.

You don't see the crazies walking into a police station or a gun club and trying to do one of these mass shootings, they know they wouldn't get far! Instead they purposely pick places where they can kill the most people before being stopped! :twocents:
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Offline ghosthunter

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 06:38:46 AM »
Crazy people are the problem, guns are just a tool for them to use. If there were no guns it would be cars like was used in New York City, or knives like were used in that attack in China, or homemade bombs like are used in Europe, or anything else that can be used as a lethal weapon by the crazies to take lives. In many cases the crazies are known, but society fails to protect us from them.

My view is that most of these incidents could have been stopped by a good guy with a gun. In fact the Texas massacre was stopped by a good guy with a gun or it would have been worse. The author is obviously a left wing progressive who wants to push his views on the rest of us. They take young children, brainwash them with their left wing views, and turn them into social justice warriors. The author would likely rather have it where people are dependent on the police to respond, we all see how that has been working. I think the answer is for more Americans to arm themselves, proper firearms handling should be taught in schools and community centers, most citizens should be licensed to conceal carry.

You don't see the crazies walking into a police station or a gun club and trying to do one of these mass shootings, they know they wouldn't get far! Instead they purposely pick places where they can kill the most people before being stopped! :twocents:

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2017, 06:55:44 AM »
Crazy people are the problem, guns are just a tool for them to use. If there were no guns it would be cars like was used in New York City, or knives like were used in that attack in China, or homemade bombs like are used in Europe, or anything else that can be used as a lethal weapon by the crazies to take lives. In many cases the crazies are known, but society fails to protect us from them.

My view is that most of these incidents could have been stopped by a good guy with a gun. In fact the Texas massacre was stopped by a good guy with a gun or it would have been worse. The author is obviously a left wing progressive who wants to push his views on the rest of us. They take young children, brainwash them with their left wing views, and turn them into social justice warriors. The author would likely rather have it where people are dependent on the police to respond, we all see how that has been working. I think the answer is for more Americans to arm themselves, proper firearms handling should be taught in schools and community centers, most citizens should be licensed to conceal carry.

You don't see the crazies walking into a police station or a gun club and trying to do one of these mass shootings, they know they wouldn't get far! Instead they purposely pick places where they can kill the most people before being stopped! :twocents:

100% :tup:

Wait .....I thought there where already laws against killing people. And those gun free zone signs.....those don't stop the bad guys????? Weird.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 06:58:32 AM »
Well said, Dale.


Just this morning on the news, there is a story of another individual, apparently suffering from depression, perhaps medicated, perhaps not properly, was arrested for making threats and violent remarks against a Seattle church.  And this was apparently after he made similar threats to another church earlier, but at an indeterminate date. Q13. 

It appears existing laws are sufficient, if enforced, to get the guy off the street and evaluated.

In another story, a law is proceeding through Congress to ensure proper reporting to NCIC for the various acts constituting prohibited possessor categories.* 

Both of such classes of laws I support, in principle, but that goes against the narrative that firearms owners do not support so called gun control.  That said, I also think that restoration of rights should be more uniform and readily available.


*Pot proponents should be aware whether such law includes the ATF guidance on pot use and firearms.

Offline Stein

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2017, 09:15:05 AM »
I'm all for effective gun control, it just all depends on what a guy means by "gun control."  The biggest problem with our government right now is they like to argue, grandstand, cash K Street checks and do nothing other than what is required to get those checks.

One problem is the background check system.  Many things don't get in there, reference the recent shooting and Marysville if memory serves me correct.  How about we study what the problem is, fix the system and throw a few bucks to wherever it needs to go to hire people to get the information entered into a single system?  Virtually nobody would argue that enforcing those rules is important, would save lives, and jives with the 2nd.

Next, find the second topic we can get a majority to agree with and do that.  Maybe work on the problem of people watching these guys go batty but not knowing what they can or should do?

We don't do anything with the broken mental health system, not to mention helping veterans.  Likewise, we don't address or even discuss the potential role of certain medications and exposing youth to violence in movies, tv and video games.  Don't even mention the fact that the majority of gun violence is suicide.

What we do instead is focus on our differences and whether a vertical grip makes the gun more or less deadly and other topics that we know for 100% certainty would not have prevented the most recent tragedy - and people continue to die.

Offline Fl0und3rz

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2017, 09:37:43 AM »
As a timely example, the recent California school shooter was not supposed to have firearms, because he was really bonkers with fits of rage, was just released on bail, and had a protection order against him, IIRC.

Neighbors complained about all the gunfire coming from his house, but it seems all the LEO did was do a Stormtrooper cursory thing - knock on door and when he refused to answer, they went away. 

His wife's body was found under the floorboards of the house, and others were also murdered, when all the blaring horns, bells, and whistle were going off about the guy, well in advance of the final act.

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2017, 11:25:16 AM »
Totally overlooks the reason the Second Amendment was included in the Bill Of Rights in the first place.  :bdid:

When an author goes so far out of his way to only speak of the immediate problems (the wrong people using guns the wrong way), you can immediately write him off as PART of the problem. This kind of hypnotized, myopic, shallow thinking is why the country in sliding left all the time. Thoughtless. No depth or historical understanding whatsoever. Just let the Socialist Elite plan your daily life out for you from now on... sheeple.

(Name calling comes easy when you realize what he's actually preaching.)
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Offline csaaphill

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2017, 08:38:28 PM »
Far too many like that guy are too willing to give in. I never support any gun control ever NONE!
Hunters are sometimes are own worst enemies. Lots of Repubs support gun control it's not just a democrap issue even some on here who supposedly support the second amendment support some laws of which is says shall not be infringed not compromised because of the times it's says shall not be infringed Period.  :twocents:
"When my bow falls, so shall the world. When me heart ceases to pump blood to my body, it will all come crashing down. As a hunter, we are bound by duty, nay, bound by our very soul to this world. When a hunter dies we feel it, we sense it, and the world trembles with sorrow. When I die, so shall the world, from the shock of loosing such a great part of ones soul." Ezekiel, Okeanos Hunter

Offline dwils233

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2017, 09:12:58 PM »
Please no namecalling, you can have dissenting opinions and still follow the forum rules.

Is "troll" name calling? Legitimate question especially if a person is acting like a troll ( troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community )

Accusing the author of that article of being a "Knucklehead" BHA member would also insinuate that all BHA members are knuckleheads.... Which would be indirect name calling and trolling the people here who are BHA members. I'm not crying about it, just pointing out where the logic leads
A promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code

Offline dwils233

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2017, 09:20:08 PM »
Now on topic, I do think hunters and gun owners do have an important role to play in gun control- because we all know there are huge flaws in the system that need to addressed. If we could shift the conversation from "new laws" to better enforcement of the NICS system, eliminating false positives, better reporting of disqualifying conditions and crimes, and better followup on rejected applicants, etc- we show we care and have something to contribute to the conversation, instead of being shutout because "we're all stubborn gun nuts" and then getting new laws shoved down our throats from people ignorant on the minutiae of gun laws and ownership
 :twocents:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2017, 09:25:05 PM »
Please no namecalling, you can have dissenting opinions and still follow the forum rules.

Is "troll" name calling? Legitimate question especially if a person is acting like a troll ( troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting quarrels or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community )

Accusing the author of that article of being a "Knucklehead" BHA member would also insinuate that all BHA members are knuckleheads.... Which would be indirect name calling and trolling the people here who are BHA members. I'm not crying about it, just pointing out where the logic leads

I was addressing anyone who was calling others names. :tup:
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Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #32 on: November 22, 2017, 04:38:36 PM »

Accusing the author of that article of being a "Knucklehead" BHA member would also insinuate that all BHA members are knuckleheads.... Which would be indirect name calling and trolling the people here who are BHA members. I'm not crying about it, just pointing out where the logic leads

Like the knucklehead grossly mistaken (is that better???  :)  ;) ) author's position that hunters need to support gun control, your logic is flawed.  I made no such insinuation.

Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

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Offline hoytem

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2017, 09:13:29 PM »
I tried really hard to read past the second paragraph but couldn't make it happen. I haven't read the previous comments either but I'm going to have to go with a loud and resounding NO! This guys is a sham pushing liberal agendas under the guise of a hunter.
Yee Yee!!

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2017, 08:55:26 AM »
I would probably support some gun control.  We already have LOTS of it on the books, the obvious first step it to enforce the rules in place.  I don't mind that average citizens are not allowed to own missiles and bombs... I suppose rules against fully automatic weapons and high capacity magazines makes sense too. 

People like to use the argument that we need them to protect ourselves, usually against a tyrannical government.  Those same people are generally the first ones to support more military and law enforcement.  I'm not sure who they think it going to come take thier guns, but I bet it's not the boy scouts. 

The mass shootings are a problem.... there is generally a common thread with the demographic of the shooter too.  Flame away, masculine violence is an issue that needs dealt with.  DV charges tell you something about a guy....

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #35 on: November 23, 2017, 10:13:55 AM »
Ask your employers about how their ancestors felt about gun control and confiscation. And nope...rules against high capacity magazines do not make sense.

The reality is that a good AR platform with a few high capacity magazines is unquestionably one of the best - if not the best, tools for property and home defense. 
 
Enforce existing laws. End revolving door criminal incarceration. Get violent criminals off the street and permanently out of our social fabric. Murderers, rapists and child molesters should be immediately converted to worm food.  No more coddling.
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

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Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #36 on: November 23, 2017, 10:19:18 AM »
I agree with your last paragraph.

Unquestionably??  I think it can be questioned.  A shotgun that doesn't shoot bullets through the next door neighbors nursery might also be a good alternative. 

Offline Bushcraft

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #37 on: November 23, 2017, 10:32:15 AM »
To that I would simply urge you to take some advanced defensive firearm training from highly respected instructors and educate yourself on the topic.
Liberalism is the philosophy of Western suicide.

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Offline Bill W

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2017, 02:23:34 PM »
Actually we don't need gun control as guns are never the issue.  What we need is owner control.  The liberals don't seem to want to do that.  The one guy had a BCD from the service and for some reason that information wasn't passed over to the Feds. If it was he would have been disqualified on his NICS check.

Offline fish vacuum

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Re: Plea: Hunters should support gun control?
« Reply #39 on: November 25, 2017, 12:24:21 AM »
The author brought up suicides and offered gun control as a solution, without acknowledging that the problem is people being suicidal.
When gun control is pushed, I don't usually hear ideas that would have stopped any of the shootings that started the topic. Radical ideas that could stop, or significantly reduce those shootings violate the rights of everyone else.

 

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