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Author Topic: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies  (Read 4287 times)

Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 11:14:37 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?
2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
Proof is required, that's why NMFS and USFWS decline to list species every year. You have people like a retired WA DOF biologist in the Olympia area who has petitioned NMFS to essentially list every salmon/steelhead/bottomfish in WA, most of which NMFS has declined to list.

The biggest issue I've seen is the de-listing. USFWS/NMFS goes to de-list and bam lawsuit which many times is upheld by a judge.

You can't put a blanket number on the recovery of all species because I would assume most would agree that 1,000 wolves is different than 1,000 steelhead.

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 11:43:17 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Sitka_Blacktail

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2017, 11:46:02 AM »
As to the OP, I find it ironic that the symbol of the Republican Party is the elephant. 
A man who fears suffering is already suffering from what he fears. ~ Michel de Montaigne

Offline Special T

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2017, 02:33:40 PM »
I saw this.  :tup: I bet the animal rights people are losing their minds right now.  :chuckle:


 :yeah:
I  know a couple that are and it makes me chuckle. No amount of explanation seems to penetrate how much conservation funding comes from managed hunting in africa.  Renewable resources are important, except when they are animals.

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Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2017, 05:25:00 PM »
That didn't last long. The reversal is now on hold.

Offline Bookworm007

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2017, 06:09:09 PM »
Never really understood shooting an animal as just a trophy.... If you aren't going to eat it why not let it be, especially when elephants are populations are on decline.
"I ain't never had too much fun"

Offline Britt-dog

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2017, 06:29:54 PM »
Never really understood shooting an animal as just a trophy.... If you aren't going to eat it why not let it be, especially when elephants are populations are on decline.
Please educate yourself about elephant hunting and African hunting in general. Every bit of the animal is eaten or utilized in some way by locals and neighbors. They are very appreciative and flock to the kill sites. Elephant hunting benefits the animals and communities in many ways.

Offline bigtex

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2017, 07:00:41 PM »
Trump has just ordered the lifting of the ban to be placed on hold.

Offline boneaddict

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2017, 07:40:31 PM »
Does this have any effect on the ivory trade?
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Offline Humptulips

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2017, 09:02:34 PM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
You might want to look that up. Boreal Woodland Caribou are listed as threatened in Canada. Don't confuse them with other caribou species which are abundant.
Consider this though, lynx are very abundant in Canada and AK. The lower 48 has a few but they are on the periphery of their range. WA, ID, MT, MN, and Maine have a few and this has spawned a raft full of lawsuits with intended purpose of stopping trapping in the mentioned states. Maine has been hit the hardest because they actually have a decent lynx population in the northern part of the state. They finally received an incidental take permit from the USFWS which as I remember limits them to 5 lynx over 7 years. Still they have problems because the lynx population is growing because of habitat changes (more logging). the difference of literally a few feet could mean the shut down of trapping in northern Maine or another Lynx pelt legally sent to market on the Canadian side.
Then you have Polar Bears which seem to be at or near a peak in population but are on the threatened list because of maybe global warming might effect them at some point in the future?
Bruce Vandervort

Offline lokidog

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2017, 10:07:05 PM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
You might want to look that up. Boreal Woodland Caribou are listed as threatened in Canada. Don't confuse them with other caribou species which are abundant.
Consider this though, lynx are very abundant in Canada and AK. The lower 48 has a few but they are on the periphery of their range. WA, ID, MT, MN, and Maine have a few and this has spawned a raft full of lawsuits with intended purpose of stopping trapping in the mentioned states. Maine has been hit the hardest because they actually have a decent lynx population in the northern part of the state. They finally received an incidental take permit from the USFWS which as I remember limits them to 5 lynx over 7 years. Still they have problems because the lynx population is growing because of habitat changes (more logging). the difference of literally a few feet could mean the shut down of trapping in northern Maine or another Lynx pelt legally sent to market on the Canadian side.
Then you have Polar Bears which seem to be at or near a peak in population but are on the threatened list because of maybe global warming might effect them at some point in the future?

@olyguy79  There are different subspecies of animals that may or may not be endangered, Florida Panthers are not the same as Washington Cougars, Northern Timber Wolves are not the same as Mexican Gray Wolves or the Western Gray Wolf that used to live in WA. Woodland Caribou, Barren Ground Caribou, Mountain Caribou, Quebec-Labrador Caribou are not the same subspecies. 

Offline wapiti hunter2

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2017, 12:00:09 AM »
Trump has just ordered the lifting of the ban to be placed on hold.

Bowing to public pressure.

https://apnews.com/457e895e968f444eb46a19da77f52562/Trump-delays-new-policy-on-importing-elephant-parts

"President Donald Trump said Friday he’s delaying a new policy allowing the body parts of African elephants shot for sport to be imported until he can review “all conservation facts.”

Aren't you suppose to know the facts before you make policy?  :bash:  :bash:

Offline bearpaw

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2017, 09:25:41 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?

1st on the List
Eliminate the ability for antihunting groups to sue and get reimbursed, the anti-hunting groups are getting rich off taxpayers by sueing over the ESA.

2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!

Now if you're gonna say wolves shouldn't have protection anywhere because there are 60,000 of them in North America, you can't say caribou are going extinct when there are about 1 to 2 million of them in North America.
You might want to look that up. Boreal Woodland Caribou are listed as threatened in Canada. Don't confuse them with other caribou species which are abundant.
Consider this though, lynx are very abundant in Canada and AK. The lower 48 has a few but they are on the periphery of their range. WA, ID, MT, MN, and Maine have a few and this has spawned a raft full of lawsuits with intended purpose of stopping trapping in the mentioned states. Maine has been hit the hardest because they actually have a decent lynx population in the northern part of the state. They finally received an incidental take permit from the USFWS which as I remember limits them to 5 lynx over 7 years. Still they have problems because the lynx population is growing because of habitat changes (more logging). the difference of literally a few feet could mean the shut down of trapping in northern Maine or another Lynx pelt legally sent to market on the Canadian side.
Then you have Polar Bears which seem to be at or near a peak in population but are on the threatened list because of maybe global warming might effect them at some point in the future?

Thanks for explaining the difference between caribou species and for the other good examples.

For those that don't know this history of events! USFWS put themselves between a rock and a hard spot. There are numerous subspecies of wolves, there were some wolves of one subspecie in the NRM already and other wolves were naturally colonizing from southern Canada, but USFWS planted a somewhat larger subspecie which was trapped from farther north, in order to plant these wolves they said they are the same wolf. Well there are 60,000+ of those wolves in Canada and Alaska. I'm not the one who said it's all the same wolf, it was USFWS! Now wolf groups want to claim all these different subspecies exist again so that they can keep wolf populations in more states ESA listed. But after planting wolves from northern Canada, the population that has spread throughout all the NRM and west coast is arguable the same wolf as Canada and Alaska.

Wolves were delisted by the feds in the eastern 1/3 of Washington several years ago, at the same time as ID and MT, we could be hunting and regulating wolf numbers in eastern WA just like they are being regulated in Idaho but western WA won't let us!  :)
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2017, 09:37:18 AM »
I'm waiting for him to work on the ESA!  :tup:
Only congress can change the ESA.
:tup: That's why I said work on the ESA!
And what do you suggest?
2nd
Require proof a specie is critically engangered before it can be given ESA protection. Case in point, 60,000 wolves in existence in North America and they were give ESA protection. Meanwhile caribou are going extinct because of ESA protections on wolves!
Proof is required, that's why NMFS and USFWS decline to list species every year. You have people like a retired WA DOF biologist in the Olympia area who has petitioned NMFS to essentially list every salmon/steelhead/bottomfish in WA, most of which NMFS has declined to list.

The biggest issue I've seen is the de-listing. USFWS/NMFS goes to de-list and bam lawsuit which many times is upheld by a judge.

You can't put a blanket number on the recovery of all species because I would assume most would agree that 1,000 wolves is different than 1,000 steelhead.

I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not trying to say there should be a blanket number that works for all animals, I'm simply saying if there are 60,000+ wolves and wolf populations are expanding then wolves are not endangered.
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline huntnfmly

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Re: Trump Administration Lifts Ban on Imports of Elephant Hunting Trophies
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2017, 09:47:47 AM »
Never really understood shooting an animal as just a trophy.... If you aren't going to eat it why not let it be, especially when elephants are populations are on decline.
Please educate yourself about elephant hunting and African hunting in general. Every bit of the animal is eaten or utilized in some way by locals and neighbors. They are very appreciative and flock to the kill sites. Elephant hunting benefits the animals and communities in many ways.
:yeah:
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Take as many dam pictures as you want ....
Are there any dam questions ..

 

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