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Author Topic: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?  (Read 1337 times)

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
At the taxpayers expense.No i don't think so.People need to check more on their own to see who should get their money.  :twocents: no more nanny state.

Why would it be at the taxpayer's expense? The cost of administration would come out of the fee.  :dunno:
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Offline jackelope

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 04:33:00 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.

But they won't have their license revoked because a guy got a crappy hunt. If the guide breaks the law, done. If he tows the line and doesn't cross that line, that hunt could still be considered crappy or a ripoff, but unless the guide breaks the law, he's not going to lose his license.

Food service license...restaurant serves a crappy bacon cheeseburger for $27. They're not going to lose their food server's license(I don't know what it's called.) They'll get a bad reputation in due time, but they didn't do anything to cause their license to be revoked.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 04:39:53 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
  :yeah: At the taxpayers expense.No i don't think so.People need to check more on their own to see who should get their money.  :twocents: no more nanny state.

Why would it be at the taxpayer's expense? The cost of administration would come out of the fee.  :dunno:
HOW?If you want someones license revoked it would first have to be investigated by a state paid investigator,If the owner doesn't like what is said then its court at our cost.

If rules are being broken?What kind of rules are you talking about?For 1 example cell phone companies rip millions of people off daily and don't lose their business license.
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Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 05:05:12 PM »
Pianoman, I'm not talking about a guide ripping people off.  That should be an immediate license pull, especially if it is systemic because at that point the guide is a thief.  I'm talking about unethical hunting.  For example, A lot of people who hire guides have no clue where exactly the unit boundaries are for their tag.  I know for sure of one guide back in the day who would take Eastern tag holders over the Crest Trail and the hunters had no clue they were hunting illegally.  That is what I'm referring to.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 12:06:54 PM by NRA4LIFE »
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 05:18:37 PM »
Pman,

I see where you're coming from.   

I just fundamentally don't think that gov't needs to get involved in most of the areas that gov't control is expanding into. 

There are already laws that govern hunting. If a guide breaks the law, prosecute them. 

If a guide is just a crappy guide......   let free enterprise take its course.   

Question for you: what would licensing do that can't be accomplished just by enforcing existing laws?

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Offline buckcanyonlodge

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2017, 05:30:10 PM »
I don't think this would affect anyone who's posted so far, unless they're currently using WA guiding services.  :dunno:. I'm interested to see how the professionals feel about it.

Your idea stinks...How's that. Do you ever use a guide here in Wash.? Bad experience? Last thing I need is WDFW controlling every thing I do and charging ME for it. Rates for guides services will rise with the cost of a license.. What do you think the requirements for qualifying for a guide license should be? Go to school to learn how to lease the right property , how to put up a tree stand, how to put stiches in a careless hunter, how to stay in better shape than your hunters,  how to identify wolf tracks  , the list goes on. How about background checks..mental evaluations ,or pass a physical agility course. Drug test?? How to shop for mandatory liability insurance for how many millions of dollars?? How about classes on how to babysit problem customers? I just touched the tip of the iceberg. WDFW or the state gets their foot in the door and the sky is the limit. No license from the WDFW..No..Hell NO...just my two cents..Now I need to go to my Happy Place and calm down.
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2017, 05:33:32 PM »
Come on......   tell us how you really feel.   :hello: :hello:
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2017, 05:35:21 PM »
 :yeah: next thing you know it would be going before the supreme court because some licensed guide wouldn't guide some individual in some group that identifies diff.  :chuckle:
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2017, 06:09:21 PM »
I don't think this would affect anyone who's posted so far, unless they're currently using WA guiding services.  :dunno:. I'm interested to see how the professionals feel about it.

Your idea stinks...How's that. Do you ever use a guide here in Wash.? Bad experience? Last thing I need is WDFW controlling every thing I do and charging ME for it. Rates for guides services will rise with the cost of a license.. What do you think the requirements for qualifying for a guide license should be? Go to school to learn how to lease the right property , how to put up a tree stand, how to put stiches in a careless hunter, how to stay in better shape than your hunters,  how to identify wolf tracks  , the list goes on. How about background checks..mental evaluations ,or pass a physical agility course. Drug test?? How to shop for mandatory liability insurance for how many millions of dollars?? How about classes on how to babysit problem customers? I just touched the tip of the iceberg. WDFW or the state gets their foot in the door and the sky is the limit. No license from the WDFW..No..Hell NO...just my two cents..Now I need to go to my Happy Place and calm down.

Yeah, you do need to calm down. I'm just asking the question for opinions like yours. I had the silly idea that good quality and ethical guides would like to get rid of the rif raf. No problem. Kind of an overreaction to a simple question, however. Have a nice drink! :tup:
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Offline cavemann

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2017, 06:43:32 PM »
LOL..  Let me sum this up.  OP ask a question, several give an answer/opinion other than the one he was hoping for.  OP makes a few more attempts to sway opinions, those that disagree continue to disagree.  OP continue with condescending tone and insults those that disagree.  The very person who would be impacted the most and has the most insight responds and he is chastised for getting heated...  LOL..  OK..

Offline bigtex

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
As others have said, WA is essentially hands off when it's comes to regulating hunting guides. A convicted felon with a suspended hunting license could be a "hunting guide" in WA. As far as I know, WA is the only western state that doesn't regulate hunting guides (there may be others, but we're in the minority). Every effort to regulate hunting guides in WA has been beaten. In comparison, Idaho has an entire agency just focused on guides and outfitters which even has it's own enforcement program that goes after guides who aren't following the laws.

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2017, 07:27:33 PM »
In the case of Washington State the "cure" would be far worse than the disease. 

Offline DaveMonti

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2017, 09:00:37 PM »
I can't see the benefit of having more non-residents hunting in this state.  Perhaps the outfitters can chime in with the percentage of clients that are from out of state.  WA certainly doesn't market hunting to non-residents like the other states mentioned, and I don't think the WDFW really cares about the out of state hunter. 

Raising revenue through tax dollars or "stimulating the economy" with out of state visitors are a drop in the bucket relative to the amount that hunters spend now.   
With more non-residents and a thriving outfitting industry, less land and game will be available to locals. 

I personally don't care what others think of this state by their experience with shady guides.  I personally don't think too highly of this state myself, and I don't really care enough to "protect" others from shady guides to create an entire government agency to oversee them.  There will be huge amounts of waste in the licensing and enforcement, and I guarantee not ONE guide will lose their license unless someone dies from negligence or the guide breaks a LOT of laws.  This state doesn't do a very impressive job at prosecuting current game law breakers, so imagine them trying to pull a license off of someone who is paying guide license fees to them. 

WA is not a destination hunting state and never will be.  Too many hunters are here already. 

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2017, 09:25:24 PM »
LOL..  Let me sum this up.  OP ask a question, several give an answer/opinion other than the one he was hoping for.  OP makes a few more attempts to sway opinions, those that disagree continue to disagree.  OP continue with condescending tone and insults those that disagree.  The very person who would be impacted the most and has the most insight responds and he is chastised for getting heated...  LOL..  OK..

Actually I told him his was the opinion I was looking for. But he did overreact. "Your idea stinks. How about that?" I don't think I was out of line considering how he responded. It's a discussion. Not some kind of ego battle.
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Offline Seahawk12

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2017, 10:00:56 PM »
I am a NO.   

Government is already intrusive enough?
E.G.   Why does a hairdresser need to be licensed! ) (:2 /+('t?


Let the market work and the buyer beware. 

I'll take Caveat Emptor over the nanny state.
Didn't need to read further than this.
You wonder why the PoS left is winning?
Stop asking the gov to solve every problem.
I'm not going to use the "smashing head into brick wall emoticon" but thats how I feel.
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2017, 10:10:07 PM »
Well, I've got my answer. It looks like most are against licensing of guides in WA. After the discussions about Shane and having heard a few people in the past talk about the benefits of licensing, I thought it was going the other direction. It also seems I've caused bad feelings and that was not my intent. I apologize to anyone who thinks I unfairly responded to them. So mods, if you want to lock this up, please do. I hope you all have a good night and a great Christmas season.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2017, 10:42:42 PM »
Remember sir a lot of people in all these forums say the same thing,

               DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST.

You wouldn't eat dinner at a place everyone said washed the chicken off in vinegar would you?  :chuckle:
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Offline Seahawk12

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2017, 11:07:22 PM »
Well, I've got my answer. It looks like most are against licensing of guides in WA. After the discussions about Shane and having heard a few people in the past talk about the benefits of licensing, I thought it was going the other direction. It also seems I've caused bad feelings and that was not my intent. I apologize to anyone who thinks I unfairly responded to them. So mods, if you want to lock this up, please do. I hope you all have a good night and a great Christmas season.
My answer to your post was intended to be staight forward.
My answers uaually are.
However, I believe that discussion with you can be had without "bad feelings".
 I think you are a good person.
Merry Christmas.
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Online Jake Dogfish

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2017, 11:39:32 PM »
License them and put the money into habitat.

Offline Houndhunter

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2017, 12:20:48 AM »
I've been licensed to guide in two states, I say keep WA the way it is  :twocents:

Offline buckcanyonlodge

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2017, 04:55:45 AM »
No bad feelings here. Sometimes I state my opinions in ways that make me look angry.  Sorry for that. I am just a little opinionated on the subject. :hello:
Providing a select few deer , bear , and turkey hunts  with meals and lodging provided.  Stevens County is right in the heart of the best hunting and fishing in the Northeast corner of the state . . Our Lodge is also a great place for your family reunion, summer vacation  509-722-3949  www.buckcanyon.net
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Offline Special T

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2017, 11:38:14 AM »
In the case of Washington State the "cure" would be far worse than the disease.
Truth!

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Offline Special T

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2017, 08:31:27 AM »
I was listening to the radio and the sportsman report out of Wenatchee had a discussion about how there is no fishing guide association in this state. One seems likely to developed because there are several issues they are concerned with.

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Offline White Pass Outfitters

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2017, 09:01:35 AM »
Ok, I see both sides here I dont want more gov reg either.
But as a lic. Outfitter and Guide. through the FS I sure would like to get rid of all the non lic outfitters that work my areas. I can report them and all they get is a letter in the mail if that even. I have giving names to the FS AND NOTHING has been down about it. So I guess I would have to be for it. It also would be easier hiring guides for the season, if they come up with the right qualifications for Big game guides. But you are right with the prices going up, they would have too. If things dont change in wa st soon, I will be heading to a st where it is required and buying an outfitter out. Preferable Wyoming where they try and work with the outfitters. Just my opinion as an outfitter. oh one more thing if they do require guides to be lic. Then the Outfitters should get a couple Guaranteed tags also, if land owners get them why not an outfitter ? Again just my opinion.   
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2017, 10:32:20 AM »
I got the message.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

 

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