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Author Topic: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?  (Read 1850 times)

Offline Boss .300 winmag

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2017, 02:31:00 PM »
The main benefit I could see is that there would be an avenue to investigate complaints and revoke their license.  Right now, you are pretty much limited to internet rants of one form or another.  If you think about it, just about any professional service requires a license and there is a board that investigates complaints.

I get the "do your research" but at the end of the day, one of the values of hiring a guide is that they are doing the work for you.  If you have to go down to checking who owns what property, how many acres it is, whether animals are using it and who it is leased to, it kind of takes away the point.

If you are from out of state, you basically can do a bit of googling, call the guy and then a bunch of trust that what he says is true.

 :yeah:
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Offline huntnphool

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2017, 03:04:31 PM »
The ongoing thread about our favorite guide service, another thread about a fishing guide who supported and encouraged poaching, and other threads from time-to-time has me ask this: Is it time to have standards and licensing for WA guide services?

 To what end?.............you can't legistlate morality! ;)

I'm not talking about anything close to legislating morality. Would you go to a restaurant without a health license? Why do you think they need them?

If you read my post, the end would better representation of hunting in our state, consumer protection, and some standardization and monitoring. We're one of the few states without licensed hunting guides. Montana, ID, WY, CO, UT, AK all license and they all have a robust guiding and peripheral economy. We've got great guides who lose business to frauds and slouches

 This suggests Montana, ID, WY, CO, UT, AK are free of frauds and slouches, I can assure you they are not.

 My point is, it doesn't matter what kind of standardized monitoring you impliment, there will always be guides with issues, like the few you are referring to.

 Remember, there are laws making it illegal to shoot someone, yet it happens daily. :twocents:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline bigtex

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2017, 03:08:27 PM »
Aren't fishing guides required to be licensed by the state?
Yes. Hunting are not though.

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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #18 on: December 05, 2017, 03:21:37 PM »
The ongoing thread about our favorite guide service, another thread about a fishing guide who supported and encouraged poaching, and other threads from time-to-time has me ask this: Is it time to have standards and licensing for WA guide services?

 To what end?.............you can't legistlate morality! ;)

I'm not talking about anything close to legislating morality. Would you go to a restaurant without a health license? Why do you think they need them?

If you read my post, the end would better representation of hunting in our state, consumer protection, and some standardization and monitoring. We're one of the few states without licensed hunting guides. Montana, ID, WY, CO, UT, AK all license and they all have a robust guiding and peripheral economy. We've got great guides who lose business to frauds and slouches

 This suggests Montana, ID, WY, CO, UT, AK are free of frauds and slouches, I can assure you they are not.

 My point is, it doesn't matter what kind of standardized monitoring you impliment, there will always be guides with issues, like the few you are referring to.

 Remember, there are laws making it illegal to shoot someone, yet it happens daily. :twocents:

Of course there will always be frauds and slouches. I didn't say there wouldn't. But, in states that issue guiding licenses, a harmed consumer has redress through the state licensing process that can keep the slouches from continuing to hurt other consumers. If you lose your license, you're done. Not so here. They can continue harming consumers as long as they're able.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2017, 04:05:18 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.
Look man, some times you just gotta roll the dice

So many free days, so few fish....

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2017, 04:07:32 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline JimmyHoffa

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2017, 04:22:38 PM »
Assuming WDFW would actually revoke it.  They want money and are scared of lawyers like the guide in question likes to threaten people with.  How do they actually investigate the claims of him ripping people off?  Sounds like he's got a sleaze response for everything, so do they have to send undercover agents to get him claiming to own 120K acres?  Or claiming to have roosies east of I-5?  Can't they just yank his business license?

Offline trophyhunt

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2017, 04:25:10 PM »
I am a NO.   

Government is already intrusive enough?
E.G.   Why does a hairdresser need to be licensed! ) (:2 /+('t?


Let the market work and the buyer beware. 

I'll take Caveat Emptor over the nanny state.
I'm a no as well, it's not like there will be any game left in this state in a few years anyway.
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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 04:27:55 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
At the taxpayers expense.No i don't think so.People need to check more on their own to see who should get their money.  :twocents: no more nanny state.
"Boss of the woods"

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2017, 04:29:56 PM »
Assuming WDFW would actually revoke it.  They want money and are scared of lawyers like the guide in question likes to threaten people with.  How do they actually investigate the claims of him ripping people off?  Sounds like he's got a sleaze response for everything, so do they have to send undercover agents to get him claiming to own 120K acres?  Or claiming to have roosies east of I-5?  Can't they just yank his business license?

WDFW has no ability to yank a business license for anything. Even if they could it would have to be because he's doing something illegal. Because there are no standards, he's not breaking the rules. If he had a guide's license and was receiving complaints or breaking the rules, they could yank it.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2017, 04:30:55 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
At the taxpayers expense.No i don't think so.People need to check more on their own to see who should get their money.  :twocents: no more nanny state.

Why would it be at the taxpayer's expense? The cost of administration would come out of the fee.  :dunno:
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline jackelope

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 04:33:00 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.

But they won't have their license revoked because a guy got a crappy hunt. If the guide breaks the law, done. If he tows the line and doesn't cross that line, that hunt could still be considered crappy or a ripoff, but unless the guide breaks the law, he's not going to lose his license.

Food service license...restaurant serves a crappy bacon cheeseburger for $27. They're not going to lose their food server's license(I don't know what it's called.) They'll get a bad reputation in due time, but they didn't do anything to cause their license to be revoked.
:fire.:

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Offline Oh Mah

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 04:39:53 PM »
An unethical guide can get a license and is this going to change his or her ways somehow?  I doubt it.

I'll try one more time for those who still don't understand the benefit of issuing a license. Read slowly please. If they rip people off, their license can be revoked.
  :yeah: At the taxpayers expense.No i don't think so.People need to check more on their own to see who should get their money.  :twocents: no more nanny state.

Why would it be at the taxpayer's expense? The cost of administration would come out of the fee.  :dunno:
HOW?If you want someones license revoked it would first have to be investigated by a state paid investigator,If the owner doesn't like what is said then its court at our cost.

If rules are being broken?What kind of rules are you talking about?For 1 example cell phone companies rip millions of people off daily and don't lose their business license.
"Boss of the woods"

Offline NRA4LIFE

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 05:05:12 PM »
Pianoman, I'm not talking about a guide ripping people off.  That should be an immediate license pull, especially if it is systemic because at that point the guide is a thief.  I'm talking about unethical hunting.  For example, A lot of people who hire guides have no clue where exactly the unit boundaries are for their tag.  I know for sure of one guide back in the day who would take Eastern tag holders over the Crest Trail and the hunters had no clue they were hunting illegally.  That is what I'm referring to.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 12:06:54 PM by NRA4LIFE »
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Offline Dan-o

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Re: Is it time to petition the WDFW to standardize and license guide services?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 05:18:37 PM »
Pman,

I see where you're coming from.   

I just fundamentally don't think that gov't needs to get involved in most of the areas that gov't control is expanding into. 

There are already laws that govern hunting. If a guide breaks the law, prosecute them. 

If a guide is just a crappy guide......   let free enterprise take its course.   

Question for you: what would licensing do that can't be accomplished just by enforcing existing laws?

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