collapse
GET THE MOST OUT OF YOUR GPS MAP Advertise on Hunting-Washington

Author Topic: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings  (Read 2836 times)

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #50 on: December 19, 2017, 09:58:26 AM »
I appreciate every single comment, thank you all.  I am pretty pragmatic about the realities of hunting and the lives of wild animals.  I have counseled/consoled quite a few distraught hunters over the years that wild animals live short lives and die violent deaths, and that doesn't change whether you decide to participate.  I have lost multiple animals over the years, although I'm pretty sure my recovery rate - with all weapons - exceeds the average.  The second bull, much of my regret is that I didn't get to take him home and eat him, I was hoping it would save me the cost of a side of beef and meat that I prefer over beef.  I don't feel any regret whatsoever when I kill an animal cleanly, I do however strongly dislike a slow kill or a wounding loss.  My own personal ethic is if I believe I killed and lost an animal, I'm done.  That is not what the law requires, and I don't expect anyone else to adopt that philosophy, but it works well for me. 

Going in, I was planning to kill any bull I could.  I modified that to a branched bull because I wanted to get a cape for a friend who has a bull to mount.  That is why I passed a chip shot on the 1x2, and also why I was tempted to take him.  I purposely mentioned my self-imposed limitations - broadside, 40 yards or less - because I obviously did not stick with that.  I have successfully stuck to my own self-imposed 40 yard shot limit on game archery hunting for a couple of decades, based on the crazy things I've experienced deer and elk do between release and impact. 

I regret taking the first shot.  I was very invested in that stalk, and a lot of split second decisions I made.  Based on that bull's aggressive behavior to the cows, I could/should have anticipated his coming closer and running the cows back over the hill, based on their behavior.  The entire time I watched him (antlers), he was on the move, never stopping more than a second or two.  As a result of not factoring that in, I hit high.  I hit him in the ass because he continued his turn away when I released.  The quartering away shot is a much narrower window to the vitals, had I held to the broadside shot plan, the odds are greater the hit would have been to the vitals even though he moved; however failing to account for his move closer while obscured by the cows, It would have hit high.  In the heat of the moment I failed to consider all of the factors at my disposal, and was too caught up in taking the shot before an elk winded me and they blew out.

However, my first error was in applying for an archery elk permit solo.  I had the hard work after a kill covered, but with my limitations I should have been applying with at least one other hunter who could more ably pursue a wounded animal.  Having spent my 11 points, that is probably moot for Washington, but when I next burn my Wyoming elk points, it will be with other hunters.  Same if I hunt general elk season in Washington.  I can't ethically be the only legal shooter - again, my ethics, not anyone else's.  Things go other than as planned. 

On the second bull, I've been asked more than once if I could have slipped the arrow between the rib cage and shoulder.  That is a definite possibility on a frontal shot, especially if the elk is angled rather than dead on.  He was dead on.  The shot placement was right on, the arrow penetrated entirely, and there is no way the arrow didn't encounter and cut major blood vessels and lung on its path.  The cough and fall also make me very confident that is what happened and he was a dead bull.  I don't know why we didn't find him, but in the timbered wet soil, under an open canopy cutover thinning, with chest high grass and extremely dense hawthorn, willows, rose and other shrubs, I know we could have been within several feet and not seen him.  If I had gone back the next day and the next, I'm pretty sure the scavengers would have shown us where he was.  In an ideal world I would have passed the shot and waited for that broadside, to better ensure a blood trail to follow.  For some hunters, there is a satisfaction in finding the dead animal long after any meat recovery is possible.  I have done that in the past once, and found the bull on the third day (35 yard broadside shot) - it gave me something to do while my partner continued to hunt elk, but it didn't bring me any additional satisfaction.  I have all the mounts, skulls and antlers I'll ever want or need, locating the kill after the possibility of meat recovery is gone doesn't do anything for me.  Once I'm confident I killed an animal, I'm done with that tag, whether it gets notched or not.         
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline huntingfool7

  • Business Sponsor
  • Trade Count: (+4)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 1364
  • Location: Puyallup, WA
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #51 on: December 19, 2017, 10:08:05 AM »
Thank you for sharing.

Offline Wanttohuntmore

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2009
  • Posts: 1314
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #52 on: December 19, 2017, 10:09:46 AM »
 Thanks for sharing Double lung.  Now someone post a picture of the ideal shot placement on a frontal bull.

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 35993
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #53 on: December 19, 2017, 10:14:32 AM »
Thanks for sharing Double lung.  Now someone post a picture of the ideal shot placement on a frontal bull.

http://www.elk101.com/features/shot-placement-feature/
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Offline Okanagan

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Scout
  • ****
  • Join Date: Nov 2010
  • Posts: 337
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2017, 10:16:58 AM »
Gutsy post to make with such honesty.  You did some very good hunting and had some very bad luck.  The best hunters I know may kid around at times, and they do not tell some of their stories to many folks,  but when talking seriously with another good hunter, they never fudge the truth.  We don't learn anything unless we are ruthlessly honest about what happened, what we did, what the animal did etc.

With calm unlimited time, a comfortable chair and hindsight, it is easy to tell someone our opinion of what he did wrong or that he might have done differently in the moment of action. We can learn as we dissect what happened and prep for a similar situation in the future without dissing the man that was there.  He acted in the moment of having a shot, the situation every elk hunter is seeking and a majority rarely achieve. 

Thanks for posting.

Re the hind quarter shot:  my FIL shot an arrow from a recurve bow at a bear facing him at 18-20 yards.  The bear whirled at the release and the arrow hit him in the hindquarter angling forward, in this case a quickly lethal arrow placement. I.e. An animal can move significantly during arrow flight, even from a quick compound bow.

Offline jackelope

  • Administrator
  • Trade Count: (+21)
  • Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 35993
  • Location: Duvall, WA
  • Groups: WSB RMGA NRA RMEF BHA
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #55 on: December 19, 2017, 10:17:49 AM »
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

My posts, opinions and statements do not represent those of this forum

Online Karl Blanchard

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 4588
  • Location: Selah, WA
  • Jonathan_S hunting apparel prostaff
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2017, 10:20:12 AM »
Good stuff doublelung.  You let me know when you are ready for wyoming.  I'll run down your cripples like a cheetah :chuckle: :tup:
It is foolish and wrong to mourn these men.  Rather, we should thank god that such men lived.  -General George S. Patton

Aaron's Profile:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=2875
Aaron's Posts:  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=2875
Aaron's Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/aaron.blanchard.94

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2017, 10:36:04 AM »
my issue i have with this is he said in the second paragraph that we would limit his shots to "broadside at 40 yards" yet he goes on to say he arrowed 2 bulls and neither of them fit this criteria.  yes i can understand that shooting at a quartering away bull because of the likelehood of a kill but at 40 yards aiming for the off shoulder you would be shooting over 2 feet left to hit him in the ass where he said he did.  Then he goes on to say that the second bull he aimed for the "bulge in the neck where the trachea is"...where is that in comparison to a broadside bull's heart/lung area ?   
It is a shot to the heart/lung area through the opening where the esophagus and trachea enter the body cavity.  It is a 6-8" target at 90 degrees to the broadside heart/lung shot.  Disadvantages are the smaller target and reduced blood trail unless the jugular or carotid are severed, which are located on the edges of that opening which result in massive bleeding and very fast death.  I hit the center of that opening, behind the trachea within the body the trachea branches into the bronchi and then lungs.  It is also a path through concentrated major blood vessels from the top of the heart to the major blood vessels above the heart: aortas and pulmonary arteries.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 10:44:11 AM by DOUBLELUNG »
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline pianoman9701

  • Mushroom Man
  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • Legend
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2011
  • Posts: 26115
  • Location: Vancouver USA
  • NRA Life, MH, WFW, CCRKBA, NAGR, RMEF, WSB
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2017, 10:43:25 AM »
I found the story interesting, horrifying, and riveting, DL. With one elk under me, I have no right or enough experience to Monday morning QB you. But I will absolutely benefit from your telling of the experience. Thanks.  :tup:

"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman

Offline tlbradford

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2007
  • Posts: 3308
  • Location: Veradale
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2017, 10:55:49 AM »
Gutsy post to make with such honesty.  You did some very good hunting and had some very bad luck.  The best hunters I know may kid around at times, and they do not tell some of their stories to many folks,  but when talking seriously with another good hunter, they never fudge the truth.  We don't learn anything unless we are ruthlessly honest about what happened, what we did, what the animal did etc.

With calm unlimited time, a comfortable chair and hindsight, it is easy to tell someone our opinion of what he did wrong or that he might have done differently in the moment of action. We can learn as we dissect what happened and prep for a similar situation in the future without dissing the man that was there.  He acted in the moment of having a shot, the situation every elk hunter is seeking and a majority rarely achieve. 

Thanks for posting.

Re the hind quarter shot:  my FIL shot an arrow from a recurve bow at a bear facing him at 18-20 yards.  The bear whirled at the release and the arrow hit him in the hindquarter angling forward, in this case a quickly lethal arrow placement. I.e. An animal can move significantly during arrow flight, even from a quick compound bow.

Thanks Okanagan for expressing exactly what I was thinking. 

Thank you Double Lung for sharing your experience so others can learn.
Dreams are forever on the mind, realization in the hands.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2017, 11:01:18 AM »
Good stuff doublelung.  You let me know when you are ready for wyoming.  I'll run down your cripples like a cheetah :chuckle: :tup:
Perfect!
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline KFhunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2011
  • Posts: 13541
  • Location: The Wedge
  • My posts do not reflect an official opinion of HW
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #61 on: December 19, 2017, 11:18:37 AM »
I gotta hand it to you DOUBLELUNG,  you posted this and you knew you'd take a few licks for it, you've handled the criticisms admirably.
I should be out hunting lions, thanks WDFW

Offline CAMPMEAT

  • CAMPMEAT
  • Washington For Wildlife
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Explorer
  • *
  • Join Date: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 12418
  • Location: ARIZONA, A PLACE WHERE I DON'T WANT YOU LIVING !!
  • Nice...............
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #62 on: December 19, 2017, 11:43:37 AM »
We shot a spike in the good old days on Blewitt and while skinning it, we found a huge, hard knot about the size of a soft ball that had an old broadhead in it.
I could care less about what anybody says..............

Offline highside74

  • Off-Topics
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Sourdough
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2009
  • Posts: 1274
  • Location: Eatonville wa
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #63 on: December 19, 2017, 11:48:28 AM »
I guess from what I read, there has been some edits. But for the most part I like how this thead has gone. A few months ago this would have been a place of hate and discontent.

Offline BULLBLASTER

  • Chris McCarthy
  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • Old Salt
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 5855
  • Volleyfire brigade
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #64 on: December 19, 2017, 12:39:18 PM »
Good stuff doublelung.  You let me know when you are ready for wyoming.  I'll run down your cripples like a cheetah :chuckle: :tup:
You better get a new knee before running like a cheetah too much!

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #65 on: December 19, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
It sounds to me like he or his partners were struggling with whether or not to shoot it with a gun.

It is interesting to me when ethics start to override what the rules are.

I wasn't struggling but my buddy was.  I think for him it had more to do with harvesting the elk rather than any perceived suffering on the elk's part, he didn't want the elk to get away and was pretty confident I couldn't seal the deal.

I was not interested in having him shoot it because 1) illegality and 2) I was confident it was not a mortal wound.  I knew the odds were low of harvesting the bull, because it was not an incapacitating shot, and I was pretty confident he would recover if I could not harvest him.  Had it been a slow death mortal wound, e.g. gut shot, I would not have wanted him to shoot the bull because with a good vantage to keep watch and observe, the odds would have been much better that time and patience would have eventually had him lay or fall down, and either die or be vulnerable to a stalk and finisher.

That said, there are times where personal ethics may dictate breaking the law.  All I have to contribute on that end is that an ethical motivation is not a hall pass.  Deciding to break the law, in my book, is also taking ownership of the consequences if caught.  When my personal ethics have dictated breaking the law, I accept that I'll face the consequences if I do so.  In the game violations arena though, over the years I've seen a lot of guys get really butt hurt and feel abused when they got caught "doing the right thing".  Interestingly, I've also seen a lot of situations where it sure looked like straight up poaching, but the perpetrators try to argue that in fact they were doing the right thing.   
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline h20hunter

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2010
  • Posts: 16245
  • Location: Lake Stevens
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #66 on: December 19, 2017, 12:58:17 PM »
 :tup:

Well said.
Yes, my FJ is pink, I'm all about Team Jacob, beer is not for the horses nor is whiskey for the men, they are both for me.

Offline slowhand

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 198
  • Location: maple valley, wa
  • Seahawk fan for life
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2017, 01:04:38 PM »
So over the many years of Deer/Elk hunting My family and I have learned several things that have helped us find animals that produced no blood trail.
#1 where I shot from
#2 where was the animal standing
#3 what direction did the animal head
#4 treat the entire area ahead of the shooter like a crime scene
#5 one person in the lead looking for sign the others stay behind to look for any additional tracks or sign. They like to back track and do a Circle.
flag tape everything that is a for sure sign in one color (Red) and possible in another color (Yellow).
#6 only move forward on the "tracking trail" when We are 100% confident of a piece of sign
My family finds the tracking part of bow hunting to be one on the most enjoyable parts.
I am sure You guys did Your very best. The emotional roller coaster of tracking can not be understated.
Thank You for telling the story, I wish You the best. Any other tracking tips? I am always up to learn more.
Seahawks
Hunting
Fishing
In That order

Online Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 6575
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #68 on: December 19, 2017, 01:20:30 PM »
It sounds to me like he or his partners were struggling with whether or not to shoot it with a gun.

It is interesting to me when ethics start to override what the rules are.

I wasn't struggling but my buddy was.  I think for him it had more to do with harvesting the elk rather than any perceived suffering on the elk's part, he didn't want the elk to get away and was pretty confident I couldn't seal the deal.

I was not interested in having him shoot it because 1) illegality and 2) I was confident it was not a mortal wound.  I knew the odds were low of harvesting the bull, because it was not an incapacitating shot, and I was pretty confident he would recover if I could not harvest him.  Had it been a slow death mortal wound, e.g. gut shot, I would not have wanted him to shoot the bull because with a good vantage to keep watch and observe, the odds would have been much better that time and patience would have eventually had him lay or fall down, and either die or be vulnerable to a stalk and finisher.

That said, there are times where personal ethics may dictate breaking the law.  All I have to contribute on that end is that an ethical motivation is not a hall pass.  Deciding to break the law, in my book, is also taking ownership of the consequences if caught.  When my personal ethics have dictated breaking the law, I accept that I'll face the consequences if I do so.  In the game violations arena though, over the years I've seen a lot of guys get really butt hurt and feel abused when they got caught "doing the right thing".  Interestingly, I've also seen a lot of situations where it sure looked like straight up poaching, but the perpetrators try to argue that in fact they were doing the right thing.   
Great post.

I would think that having one of your partners on the edge of indecisiveness in what to do made it all that much tougher.  Maybe in this situation it was easy to stand behind your beliefs but in the moment of emotions running so high and probably all over the place I just think it would be difficult.

I can't second guess any of your decisions as I was not there.

I applaud your effort and am really glad that you posted this thread for all to have a discussion and hopefully learn from your experience.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #69 on: December 19, 2017, 01:29:47 PM »
So over the many years of Deer/Elk hunting My family and I have learned several things that have helped us find animals that produced no blood trail.
#1 where I shot from
#2 where was the animal standing
#3 what direction did the animal head
#4 treat the entire area ahead of the shooter like a crime scene
#5 one person in the lead looking for sign the others stay behind to look for any additional tracks or sign. They like to back track and do a Circle.
flag tape everything that is a for sure sign in one color (Red) and possible in another color (Yellow).
#6 only move forward on the "tracking trail" when We are 100% confident of a piece of sign
My family finds the tracking part of bow hunting to be one on the most enjoyable parts.
I am sure You guys did Your very best. The emotional roller coaster of tracking can not be understated.
Thank You for telling the story, I wish You the best. Any other tracking tips? I am always up to learn more.
I do all of that except perhaps #4 and only use one roll of flagging.  The lead tracker focuses on sign, the one behind who will take the follow up shot scans forward (sometimes with binoculars) and minimizes focus on the track.  Under dry open conditions, getting your face parallel with the ground and sighting along the track will often show a "shine" where most recently disturbed.  A busted stick the length of the animal's stride can be very helpful in locating the next piece of sign. 

I've also had some good luck with GPS grid searches after losing the trail, zooming in to the smallest field of view and laying the tracks right next to the previous track line.  My screen width is 200' at that level, and it is pretty easy to lay the track lines on top of each other at 20-30' intervals, and also identifies the holes where you have to go around for a closer look.  The down side with tracking the bull was primarily that 70+ elk had moved through that area shortly before the shot, and once off the knob I shot from, very tall dense vegetation. 
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Online Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 6575
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #70 on: December 19, 2017, 01:44:23 PM »
One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

Offline DOUBLELUNG

  • Virtual Campfire
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Frontiersman
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2007
  • Posts: 4706
  • Location: Wenatchee
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #71 on: December 19, 2017, 01:47:04 PM »
There is a huge lesson in this.....get out there and enjoy every second you can. You never know when life circumstances will get in the way and we won’t be able to do it like we want.

Hats off to you for pushing the edges still and putting boots to ground. From what I’ve gathered over the years here you have had a storied career in the outdoors and what you’ve shared here on this thread must have been a hard pill to swallow, but atlas Good men share, learn and move on. Good job good sir.  :tup:
Thanks.  I was "fortunate" to expect to die young from a heart attack, so I front-loaded life with a lot of experiences I might have put off with a normal life expectancy :) All of the men in my dad's line died between 21 and 42, either form known heart attacks or unknown causes (that were probably heart attacks).  I was 8 and my dad was a fit, healthy 29 year old when he had his first heart attack in '74, and medical science had advanced enough to identify the genetic causes behind it.  He picked up a good gene, as he was the first to survive the first attack (he's 72 now, healthy and still working), and 44 when he survived a really severe one by great good fortune and had a 7-way bypass.  I got a big benefit when statins came around, and between that and knowing a whole lot more than my forefathers had the benefit of, I went to the ER at 37 at the first hint of chest pain and got my first two stents.  I'm up to 7 now.  My son was five and I opted for very aggressive treatment to maximize my likelihood of surviving to 50, when he would be 18.  Mission accomplished!
As long as we have the habitat, we can argue forever about who gets to kill what and when.  No habitat = no game.

Offline slowhand

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hunter
  • ***
  • Join Date: Sep 2008
  • Posts: 198
  • Location: maple valley, wa
  • Seahawk fan for life
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #72 on: December 19, 2017, 02:33:24 PM »
One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.
Forgot that one
Yes We do that also
Seahawks
Hunting
Fishing
In That order

Offline jstone

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Sourdough
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 2212
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #73 on: December 19, 2017, 02:51:05 PM »
Bad shots happen. With any weapon. Mistakes are made and thatís how we learn to be better hunters. Thanks for the story Doublelung..!! Your a stand up guy!!

Online Rainier10

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Old Salt
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2010
  • Posts: 6575
  • Location: Over the edge
Re: Frontal shot on elk, situation ethics and other musings
« Reply #74 on: December 19, 2017, 03:07:55 PM »
One thing that I would add to that list and I think DL did this if I am reading it correctly is we never have the shooter as the lead guy.  Emotions are high and they aren't always thinking clear.  We put a guy in the lead that has no emotions about the shot or finding the animal, they are just looking at what is in front of them, not what they "want" to see.
Forgot that one
Yes We do that also
We put the shooter at the last known blood, if the animal jumps up in front of us he should be close and ready.  Plus it is a positive distraction getting to move forward everytime new blood or a confirmed track is found.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 07:02:11 AM by Rainier10 »
Pain is temporary, achieving the goal is worth it.

I didn't say it would be easy, I said it would be worth it.

Every father should remember that one day his children will follow his example instead of his advice.


The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of HuntWa or the site owner.

 

* Recent Topics

Commercial Fishing by WSU
[Today at 07:38:02 AM]


Neah Bay Rock fish newbie by BIGMIKE
[Today at 07:35:46 AM]


Brady by ribka
[Today at 07:35:28 AM]


New Bird gun help by Tjkride
[Today at 07:32:43 AM]


Stolen camera!!! by Dan-o
[Today at 07:06:23 AM]


Keegan Wilder fundraiser auction #16 .22 mag ammo from Ghost Hunter by Ghost Hunter
[Today at 06:43:55 AM]


Keegan Wilder fundraiser auction #17 Custom bird feeder from Ghost Hunter by Ghost Hunter
[Today at 06:40:55 AM]


Idaho Archery Elk in Pioneer Zone by lord grizzly
[Today at 06:29:01 AM]


Cougar down by bearpaw
[Today at 06:04:52 AM]


Western Wyoming Mule Deer in Crisis by bearpaw
[Today at 05:59:56 AM]


Heads up, Incoming BAD legislation, rattle the cages POLITELY in Olympia by poopooheaddad
[Today at 05:57:22 AM]


ElkNut Team- We Had Another Awesome Year! by boneaddict
[Today at 05:55:11 AM]


F/S NEW Benelli Super Sport 12 gauge 30" "REDUCED" by zwickeyman
[Today at 05:38:55 AM]


REI Co-Op Siesta 30 Sleeping Bag FS by adamR
[Today at 04:59:06 AM]


Klymit Static V2 Inflatable Sleeping Pad FS by adamR
[Today at 04:57:57 AM]


Cougar Research from Alberta by bearpaw
[Today at 04:46:43 AM]


Bloodsport Arrows by tgomez
[Today at 02:14:43 AM]


Blacktail food plot by fishnfur
[Today at 12:26:33 AM]


Trapping Marten by JakeLand
[Today at 12:07:02 AM]


Dealing with backyard poop by h2ofowlr
[Yesterday at 11:02:07 PM]