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| Lets Talk 12 Gauge Ballistics |
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| LGF:
Hey Duck and Goose hunters, would like to discuss Shot-shell ballistics. I recently read a couple big time articles written by big time duck and goose hunters talking about the best shot shells available on the market today. I'm really upset by an article by (chose not to name) a big time shooter indicating he uses 4's and 6's steel shot for most duck hunting written in Sept 2018, and another that indicated shooting 2 3/4 inch shells work just as well as others. These same writers also indicated they shoot private land and decoy birds to about 25 yards. Anything you shoot at 25 yards will work, but I have found that is not reality and most hunters find themselves shooting about half their shots 40 yards or more most days hunting. Let me identify myself a bit,,, I'm a 56 year old that used to hunt ducks with lead shot back in the 80's and reloaded my own 2 3/4 inch shells to a very effective load for ducks and small geese back in the day. I have hunted Geese Ducks and Cranes from Mexico to MN TX CA AZ NV OR WA and ID. With the advent of steel,,, I have grown to shop just about every product on the market and would like to share my experience. I help manage a club and hunt about 70 of the 100 day season involved with large harvest of waterfowl each year. I'm very fortunate and would just like to share some experience with fellow hunters. first and foremost the shot shell game is all about ballistics. Kinetic energy rules the day. Shot shell pellet count runs a close second. yes,,, your choke is important, but not that critical at 45 yards. energy and pellet count will rule the day. Pay a bit more for Hevi shot when hunting large honkers. Spend the money and use the Hevi-shot 3.5 inch shells number 2's or B's in 1 3/4 oz loads. A pack of 10 will cost you about 50 to 60 bucks. don't skimp here you will be happy you purchased the good stuff. If you are certain the large honkers will decoy to about 25 yards for super quality shots then you can shoot just about any load and clobber these large birds. If you are like me and shoot Honkers at 40 yards to 50 yards use Hevi-shot. The 3" loads are just as good ballistic speaking. Cranes in Texas as well. Shoot the good stuff for these quality hunts. Lets talk Ducks. Shoot number 2's. 3's are ok but shoot the 2's. My favorite load is the 3.5 inch 2's from Hevi-Metal. Not Hevi shot rather Hevi metal. About 29 bucks for 25 in the box. A number 2 load of 3.5 inch holds about 180 pellets which is enough to give a great pattern at 40-45 yards, and the Kinetic energy is about 4 foot pounds at 40 to 45 yards. 4 foot pounds is enough energy for the pellet to penetrate the bird. Past the feathers and into vital organs to bring the bird down. We all agree you need about 2 to 4 pellets on target to knock a duck out of the sky. Number 3's have about 3.4 foot pounds of energy at 40 yards. This is close,,, but not as good as a number 2 with 4+ foot pounds of energy... again at 25 yards everything is above 4 foot pounds, however beyond 35 to 45 yards the kinetic energy drops way off and the larger pellets carry enough energy for good kills at 40 yards. Federal Black Cloud is good stuff as well. It's triple sealed for water proof, and is a waterfowl hunters best friend in the rain or in boats when your shells are going to get wet. Federal Black cloud is a fantastic load slightly cheaper than Hevi Metal for Ducks. Stay with number 2's for ducks. BB's are also real effective for ducks and small Geese. I keep my pattern open with Improved Cylinder never over Modified shooting Ducks and geese at 35 to 45 yards. Let the Steel fly and don't try to constrict it very much. Use the larger pellets and try to stay with 3 inch or 3.5 inch shells. 1500 FPS is way fast enough don't get caught up in the 1600 and 1700 FPS stuff. Payload for more pellets and 1350 to 1500 FPS is just fine with 2's for 4+ foot pounds of Kinetic energy at 40 yards. You will kill more Ducks on average. 2018 is gong to be a great season here in Washington. your comments please. |
| Dan-o:
Thanks. I typically only duck/goose hunt 4-5 days/year, so your information is good for me. :tup: |
| lokidog:
I choose not to shoot at ducks farther than 40 yards, #3 and #4 steel works fine (I also only shoot 2 3/4 or 3").... I also disagree with your opinion of chokes, choke is second behind shot size as it will determine how many of your pellets are on target, especially at your 45+ yards.... IMO, cheaper shotshells will allow people more opportunity to actually practice with their chosen rounds. I grew up shooting steel in WI since at least 1974 on public hunting grounds. When I first moved to the west coast in 86, I was excited to be able to use lead, I crippled a crap load of birds, until I switched back to steel. Then, I had no more cripples for the season because that was what I was used to shooting at ducks. IMO Practice and impulse control are the most important factors in choosing what to shoot at ducks and geese. I will say, however, I do only use steel 6's for swatters. |
| The Deacon:
I usually don't say much but wanted to weigh in on this one - I, too, grew up in the "Lead Days" killing my first duck in 1974. Since then, I've had the opportunity to shoot many different types of non-toxic ammunition; some good, and some not so good - First, let me preface this by saying today, I hunt exclusively public land. I'm also quite conservative in my shooting, i.e. 40 yards is a long poke for me. That said - On range estimation - I think I would be safe in saying that many of those who hunt waterfowl - Notice I didn't say waterfowl hunters - would find it difficult to accurately show you 40 yards over dry ground, let alone 40 yards in the absence of any firm (ground-based) range markers. They believe they're shooting at 40 when in fact they're shooting at 55-60 - On shooting ability - Many of those who hunt waterfowl don't practice wing shooting in the off-season; that is, and putting it kindly, they suffer severe accuracy trauma On 3.5" shotshells - Unnecessary in my opinion. More cost. More recoil. More physical weight in the blind bag. With few exceptions, if it can't be killed with a 3" shotshell (or 2.75", see next entry), it's not going to be killed with a 3.5" shotshell On 2.75" shotshells - Absolutely efficient given the right situation in the right hands. Ask anyone who shoots a 16-gauge or older 2.75"-only shotgun, and they'll tell you that the "little" shotshells work just fine On shot sizes - I'll admit; I'm a fan of high pellet count and high pattern density. Thus, I use the smallest shot applicable to any given situation. Generally speaking, I choose steel #4 for ducks and (Hevi-Metal) #2 for geese; however, those choices will change. During teal-only seasons, I'll shoot #7 steel (1-1/8 ounce), which is deadly effective. Even during the regular season, I'll often shoot #5 steel for smaller (teal, widgeon, wood ducks) ducks. Divers are tough - heavily feathered and muscular - and often warrant an uptick in shot size, e.g. #3 or #2. The bottom line = Shot size selection is a product of the situation and the species On chokes - Unless one wants to spend $40-120 on an aftermarket choke tube, the modified choke tube that came with Shotgun X should - SHOULD - work just fine. Over the years, I've played with many aftermarket tubes; some performed, some did not. How did I determine which ones did and which ones didn't? Patterning. There's no reason for a shooter not to know how his or her shotgun performs with Choke X and Shotshells A through E. It's called patterning. Rifle shooters spend time on the range. Shotgunners should as well On self-discipline - If you have to ask yourself "Is it too far?" as you mount the gun, it probably is. If you say to yourself - "Ah, what the hell. I'll give 'em a go" - they're probably too far. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for most modern waterfowl ammunition to do its job efficiently and effectively? No. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for many of those who hunt waterfowl to do THEIR job efficiently and effectively? I believe so I am by no means an authority on the subject above. Just a duck/goose hunter with 44 seasons under his belt. And this is what I've learned during that time - M.D. Johnson - M & J Outdoor Communications - Cathlamet |
| Karl Blanchard:
--- Quote from: The Deacon on October 26, 2018, 05:54:51 AM ---I usually don't say much but wanted to weigh in on this one - I, too, grew up in the "Lead Days" killing my first duck in 1974. Since then, I've had the opportunity to shoot many different types of non-toxic ammunition; some good, and some not so good - First, let me preface this by saying today, I hunt exclusively public land. I'm also quite conservative in my shooting, i.e. 40 yards is a long poke for me. That said - On range estimation - I think I would be safe in saying that many of those who hunt waterfowl - Notice I didn't say waterfowl hunters - would find it difficult to accurately show you 40 yards over dry ground, let alone 40 yards in the absence of any firm (ground-based) range markers. They believe they're shooting at 40 when in fact they're shooting at 55-60 - On shooting ability - Many of those who hunt waterfowl don't practice wing shooting in the off-season; that is, and putting it kindly, they suffer severe accuracy trauma On 3.5" shotshells - Unnecessary in my opinion. More cost. More recoil. More physical weight in the blind bag. With few exceptions, if it can't be killed with a 3" shotshell (or 2.75", see next entry), it's not going to be killed with a 3.5" shotshell On 2.75" shotshells - Absolutely efficient given the right situation in the right hands. Ask anyone who shoots a 16-gauge or older 2.75"-only shotgun, and they'll tell you that the "little" shotshells work just fine On shot sizes - I'll admit; I'm a fan of high pellet count and high pattern density. Thus, I use the smallest shot applicable to any given situation. Generally speaking, I choose steel #4 for ducks and (Hevi-Metal) #2 for geese; however, those choices will change. During teal-only seasons, I'll shoot #7 steel (1-1/8 ounce), which is deadly effective. Even during the regular season, I'll often shoot #5 steel for smaller (teal, widgeon, wood ducks) ducks. Divers are tough - heavily feathered and muscular - and often warrant an uptick in shot size, e.g. #3 or #2. The bottom line = Shot size selection is a product of the situation and the species On chokes - Unless one wants to spend $40-120 on an aftermarket choke tube, the modified choke tube that came with Shotgun X should - SHOULD - work just fine. Over the years, I've played with many aftermarket tubes; some performed, some did not. How did I determine which ones did and which ones didn't? Patterning. There's no reason for a shooter not to know how his or her shotgun performs with Choke X and Shotshells A through E. It's called patterning. Rifle shooters spend time on the range. Shotgunners should as well On self-discipline - If you have to ask yourself "Is it too far?" as you mount the gun, it probably is. If you say to yourself - "Ah, what the hell. I'll give 'em a go" - they're probably too far. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for most modern waterfowl ammunition to do its job efficiently and effectively? No. Is (IMHO) 40+ yards too far for many of those who hunt waterfowl to do THEIR job efficiently and effectively? I believe so I am by no means an authority on the subject above. Just a duck/goose hunter with 44 seasons under his belt. And this is what I've learned during that time - M.D. Johnson - M & J Outdoor Communications - Cathlamet --- End quote --- mostly spot on sir :tup: I'll add that testing loads should be done on a piece of paper and not out in the field. How many waterfowlers pattern their setup? I can solidly say that out of all the duck hunters I know, the answer is exactly ZERO. Hevi shot is the king in my mind but if you cant get it to pattern properly then it's no different than Kent :twocents: I will say though that I stopped jumping around with shot size a long time ago. I go with the shoot one type of shell and learn how to shoot it intimately theory. |
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