entry level muzzleloader

[Angry Perch]

I've still got a multi-season tag in my pocket, and I'm just not feeling confident with my bow. I'm an experienced shooter, but have never touched a muzzleloader.
1) Is the ML learning curve too steep to become reasonably proficient in a few weeks?
2) What kind of investment does a guy need to make in order do get a decent, basic gun with the necessary components?

[eastsidemallard74]

I've never shot one, but this is what i do, go buy a inexpensive gun, shoot it, if you don't like it, you have a new toy to play with. I've filled up a safe like this, small safe but I now have a ton of guns to choose from.

[usmc74]

I don't think it is too difficult to get ready in a couple weeks.

I changed to ML when my shoulders couldn't tolerate pulling a bow.

The hunting is the same as bow, but the weapon can shoot 100 yards easy.

If you want to try ML, I could meet you at the Snoqualmie range sometime.

Powder, ball, then cap.

I have a modern inline.

[bobcat]

Without much time, you could easily become proficient to about 75 yards. At least for me, shooting at 100 yards with open sights can take some time to really get dialed in.

I'd recommend a CVA Optima. They're about $300 and easier to take apart and clean than any other muzzleloader that I've ever owned.

[Angry Perch]

I've shot blacktail the last 5 years, and none were over 75 yards.

[Angry Perch]

muzzle-loaders.com has an Optima V2 for $268. Anyone ever deal with them?
I'd like to just buy everything I need to get started at once.

[High Climber]

muzzle-loaders.com has an Optima V2 for $268. Anyone ever deal with them?
I'd like to just buy everything I need to get started at once.

I just bought an accura v2 from them a couple months ago, I also ordered everything to get started at the same time. Call them on the phone they had excellent customer service and were very knowledgeable. I think they will set you up nicely and the optima should be a perfectly serviceable weapon.

[Angry Perch]

muzzle-loaders.com has an Optima V2 for $268. Anyone ever deal with them?
I'd like to just buy everything I need to get started at once.

I just bought an accura v2 from them a couple months ago, I also ordered everything to get started at the same time. Call them on the phone they had excellent customer service and were very knowledgeable. I think they will set you up nicely and the optima should be a perfectly serviceable weapon.

Exactly what I was looking for! Also, "Northwest Legal" is no longer a concern, correct? Scopes are the only no-no?

[bobcat]

Correct. You don't need to order the Northwest version.

[Lefty315]

Knight is having a sale on the Wolverine, $299, same as the Bighorn just with a 22 inch barrel.

[WSU]

FYI - I just switched from a CVA Accurra.  It's easy to clean and accurate.  But, 2 years in a row it failed to go off and cost me a bull each year (assuming I would have shot straight if it went boom).  One time the cap failed to fire and the other the cap fired but the powder did not.  Powder was dry both times.  I've heard of similar problems from others.  Then again, some seem to have no problems.  Your mileage may vary and you may have great luck with yours.

[flyfishWA]

muzzle-loaders.com has an Optima V2 for $268. Anyone ever deal with them?
I'd like to just buy everything I need to get started at once.

Muzzleoaders.com is the best! great service, fast shipping, and some of the best prices.

[Angry Perch]

FYI - I just switched from a CVA Accurra.  It's easy to clean and accurate.  But, 2 years in a row it failed to go off and cost me a bull each year (assuming I would have shot straight if it went boom).  One time the cap failed to fire and the other the cap fired but the powder did not.  Powder was dry both times.  I've heard of similar problems from others.  Then again, some seem to have no problems.  Your mileage may vary and you may have great luck with yours.

In general, how common are mis-fires, hang-fires, etc?

[WSU]

I don't know the answer to that.  Before that, I've never had one, including about 5-10 years of hunting with an old Hawken style black powder gun. 

[Killmore]

I have the cva optima and have had zero misfires since switching to a 209 primer

[Crunchy]

Thumbhole knight bighorn. Pretty solid smoke pole

[Angry Perch]

I have the cva optima and have had zero misfires since switching to a 209 primer

Do you use pellets?

[carpsniperg2]

optima is a great choice. I own one and have sold many.

[bowhunterforever]

Thumbhole knight bighorn. Pretty solid smoke pole

[Samloffler]

I wouldn't worry as much about misfires with 209s. At$300 for the optima, you'll spend as much on the rest of the stuff you'll need. But that goes with just about everything, I guess. If you dedicate a weekend to shooting and figuring it out, you'll be just fine.

[HntnFsh]

Love my thumbhole stock Bighorn. Have used Knights exclusively for over 20 years. Never a misfire and Ive hunted in some wet nasty stuff for days on end.. I only use RWS #11 caps as they are somewhat water proof and have or did have a hotter ignition than any other cap Ive tried. If I pull a cap off the nipple I just toss it and throw on a new 1. I have also never unloaded my weapon until I shot it or season was over.

Use loose powder it burns a little faster and you can dial it in better. Ive used Goex, Pyrodex, and Triple 7. I prefer Triple 7. I also think TC speed loaders are the best by far! Get a 1/2 dozen of them!

[HntnFsh]

I would also add that I wouldn't cheap out on a muzzy. Just spend the $s and get a quality one. If you decide its not your cup of tea sell it. You wont be out a lot.

[Angry Perch]

I pulled the trigger on a CVA Optima last night from muzzle-loaders.com. I got some great service, and he set me up with everything i need to get shooting, except they were completely out of 209 primers. Any recommendations on where to get some locally? I'd hate to pay $10 in shipping for $5 primers.
 

[getreal711]

Sportsmans warehouse is where I got 209s recently.

[Killmore]

No I have not shot the pellets but will try soon.

[Sabotloader]

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/

[Angry Perch]

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/

It's funny that there is www.muzzleloaders.com and www.muzzle-loaders.com. As if that's not confusing! I went with the latter.
I've yet to get my hands on the product, but the service has been top notch.

[Angry Perch]

What's everyone's preferred sight? Factory? Peep? I have a peep sight on my 30-30 that I really like, so leaning that way.

[Sabotloader]

What's everyone's preferred sight? Factory? Peep? I have a peep sight on my 30-30 that I really like, so leaning that way.

I prefer the peep and front site hood setup - kinda makes you think you are looking through a 1X scope

[usmc74]

ACE in North Bend had them a couple weeks ago

Pintos guns in Renton sells reloading stuff, so they might have them

I would call either of them first

[JimmyHoffa]

What's everyone's preferred sight? Factory? Peep? I have a peep sight on my 30-30 that I really like, so leaning that way.

Sort of depends on range/set up.  The little thing I'm using right now is just the three fire dots, and that works well at 50 yds...but beyond that I lose a lot of target sight picture.  I've used trad muzzy with peeps, and those were much better for longer shots.  Am planning to peep my next muzzy, especially for late season.

[usmc74]

I use Sabotloader's set up.

Had it on both mine & my son's Knights.  Buddy also put it on his.

I take the rear insert out during dark/dim visibility in the woods.

Both my muzzy elk were shot without the rear insert.

68 yards and 100 yards

[reelamin]

I have been Modern for decades and Archery for about 18yrs.  I started my muzzle loader trip just last year and hunted (finally drew multi season) this year.  I learned a lot in the short time.   One of my hunting buddies did the same and we worked on our guns/loads at the same time.  Buddy is a great shooter but his knowledge of ignition and firearm mechanics is not super high.  He is better than the average but he is just not interested in the "GEEK' world of testing, trying, tweaking I am.  He usually waits for me to try it then follows suit.  I have what some would say is extensive experience (all ways not just hunting) with center fire rifle and handgun with just about every sighting system known up to what some call very long distances.   Shot my spike last week at 529yds at a 31 degree decline one and done, and that is not what I call long range. 

To know your shooting skills with open sights is impossible, but I will go with what "most" people I  have been around are capable of.  I would say you are capable of a 100yd shot and 150yd all things being ideal.  Solid rest, non moving animal, -3" accuracy, high quality bullet, and regular (3-4 days with 10-20 rounds) practice before you go.

I do not advocate anyone buy a cheap/inexpensive/beginner item of anything.  I would suggest you purchase a least a mid level rifle.  I started with a Big Horn, and ended up bedding the action, floating barrel etc. to get it to shoot better and more consistently.  With a scope it would hold 3 right at abou 1.5"/100yds with 150gr charge and right about 3" with open sights.  The major limiter was the fiber optic for precision shooting.   Buddy went with a inexpensive stainless Traditions.   His would not open with any charge over 100gr of powder.  It would lock up and be almost impossible to break open past 120gr.    Accuracy wise his was actually better at its max load, but not if I down loaded mine to 100gr charge. 

Put a rear peep sight on if at all possible.  I went with a Williams one size larger aperature and the factory front sight.   I IMMEDIATELY FOUND THE FACTORY FIBER OPTIC FRONT SIGHTS SUUUUUUUCK FOR ANYTHING PAST 175YDS when sighting on a actual animal!!!   Tighten them down....we both had the aperture loosen while shooting.   My base was solid but his loosened.  I will be replacing my front sight with a standard black post or Globe style sight.  I was fully confident in a 300yd perfect conditions shot before I put my sights on the first elk.   Immediately it was a 200yd maximum shot for no other reason than the crappy fiber optic front sight.   Buddy experienced the same thing.

I had no issues igniting the different Black Substitutes with either a mag cap or 209.  I did have issues with the BH209 with a cap, but no issue if I duplex loaded it with 5gr of T7.   I use BH209 for hunting because ease of loading and fractionally higher velocity...fractionally!!   I use T7 for my range and practice because I can swab the barrel between shots.  No issues with BH209 and 209 primers in my gun, but my buddy was having issues with his even with 209 primers.   It cost him his first muzzle spike this year at 95 yards.  He did not tell me but he was having misfires and hang fires fairly regular.   We had a few while testing together, but we just chalked it up to the "muzzle loader thing".  In reality...I believe they are totally avoidable with proper preparation and equipment.   He had a misfire and then a hang fire and that as all she wrote on his elk.  We test fired it later at camp and it did the same thing.  We drilled out the flash hole at camp....test fired some....problem solved!!!  Another example of rifle cost was we drilled with it by hand in a "stainless" breach plug....pretty low grade stainless to drill as easy as it did.   

We will both be upgrading rifles this year and my nephews say they want to try it.  Right now leaning very towards for a CVA Accura....would get the LR version if it had iron sights.   I am very anti Remington Company now...so that one is eliminated because others of equal quality are available.  Will also be putting a muzzle brake on it.  My gun guy thinks we can make it work....so my Bighorn will be the test bed.  I hate the plastic Knight cap...just inserting a primer seems super nice.

So I would go mid grade rifle, 209 primer, T7 Powder, quality Bullet in the 300gr or heavier range, peep sight, and practice as much as you can.   Hope you get one and good luck to you.  I'm sure I missed some stuff but I have enough coffee and elk camp is still in the PU and trailer I need to get taken care of. 

[Sabotloader]

Reelamin, really a very good read. I enjoyed it very much...

Wish it wasn't so far to your place - it would be fun to drive over and do some shooting with you or vice-versa...

Don't forget that sale on DISC Extremes and you can get the bare 209 primer option


mike

[cjhaan]

It is easy to learn how to shoot muzzleloader, just watch a youtube video. The most difficult part for me was finding a bullet powder combo that works well in your gun. I have a cva wolf and powerbelt bullets shoot terrible through it. I went from being happy to hit the target at 75yds with powerbelts(using multiple different kinds) to a 3 inch groups with sabboted T/c shockwaves at 100yds. Also clean the gun between shots for best accuracy.

[Angry Perch]

Thanks all for the input. I hope to be out shooting this weekend.

[Angry Perch]

Well, the decision to buy a muzzleloader paid off. 3 minutes left of legal shooting light on opening day.

[lamrith]

Congrats!!

Let us know what you went thru and prep you did to be hunt ready.  What powders/bullets you went with, etc.   You did not have much time between getting it and using it!

[Angry Perch]

Congrats!!

Let us know what you went thru and prep you did to be hunt ready.  What powders/bullets you went with, etc.   You did not have much time between getting it and using it!

I got a complete ready to shoot kit from muzzle-loaders.com. They recommended 270 grain Power Belt Platinum bullets, and 2 White Hot pellets. The learning curve is very short. Besides the loading and cleaning procedures, shooting a rifle is shooting a rifle. I had it sighted in with about 15 shots, so not much more than I would with a scoped rifle. I did miss twice, but that's due to my fat butt huffing and puffing after racing 60 yards up a really steep clear cut, laying on a side hill, and having a half ass rest. Having my buddy standing 75 yards away laughing out loud didn't help either! Note to self; Practice shooting all my rifles from odd positions. Anyhow, caught up to him again, and connected with a perfect double lung shot at about 25 yards. The exit hole was barely bigger than the entrance, so not too sure about bullet performance, but dead is dead I suppose. Marinated heart on the grill tonight!

I highly recommend Muzzle-loaders.com. They spent a ton of time with me on email and phone, and were more than happy to provide all the assistance I needed.

[JakeLand]

  good job !!!

[huntnfmly]

Congrats