Hound podcast

[WAcoyotehunter]

https://open.spotify.com/show/26dHh9B2NyrwjGss8eYyMQ?si=dQemHbZtSF-r87u0iiFM8w&nd=1

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/song-of-the-hounds-podcast/id1479351130

Matt reached out to me a month or so ago and asked if we could talk about what's going on out here.  He covers lots of different dogs and hunting and has an interest in lions. 

[Jonathan_S]

 

[bigskyhounds]

Do you feel like if we had the pursuit season it would help this problem? I think wdfw would benefit from the money intake and not spending money to try to find out if this works.

When you go back to rechase these cats and say you run them off a kill. Will it return to that kill or is it now going to have to kill another deer.

I'm all about predator management but I feel if wdfw was doing their job we would have no need to have a program to harass wildlife. Places like Idaho and Montana that manage the lion populations don't have these problems on the level we are. having a hard time with this when we know what needs to be done theyve done the studies other places and the numbers prove hound hunting works to keep lions at bay. Seems to me we just keep going in circles here.

[CementFinisher]

 

[bigskyhounds]

https://open.spotify.com/show/26dHh9B2NyrwjGss8eYyMQ?si=dQemHbZtSF-r87u0iiFM8w&nd=1

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/song-of-the-hounds-podcast/id1479351130

Matt reached out to me a month or so ago and asked if we could talk about what's going on out here.  He covers lots of different dogs and hunting and has an interest in lions.

How many lions do you feel you would need to harass to make this program effective?

How much money is anticipated to be spent on this program to harass lions?

When is this program supposed to start?

How many houndsman and others will be involved?

How is it determined whether you will try to chase a cat or not?

Will you be marking them with permanent paint like was initially suggested?

Will these cats be harder to catch or kill after being harassed for a month?

What are the chances these cats will become more aggressive towards people or dogs after being harassed for a month?


Is there a plan in place to inform the public of this program?

Reason I ask this last question is the incident that happened with my friend couple weeks ago. A mountain lion walking up his driveway at the time his kids were supposed to be at bus stop. Bus driver calls him to tell him to keep his kids inside.

He calls fish and game and their response is don't feed the deer which I think is BS. No mention of this program. Seems like this cat would have fit right into your plan. Cat that hasn't done anything wrong but was spotted near homes.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Good questions. I'm not ignoring them but I will need to sit down at the computer to address them. Standby.

[Special T]

tag

[Rainier10]

Tag

[WAcoyotehunter]

here you go. Sorry some of this is vague, we are just getting going and do not know what to expect


How many lions do you feel you would need to harass to make this program effective? As many as possible.  I would like to get over 30, and would love to get over 60, but that's a LOT of work

How much money is anticipated to be spent on this program to harass lions?  Not much. I'm on a tight budget and funded by the Tribe.

When is this program supposed to start? We started a few weeks ago and are working on it whenever we can

How many houndsman and others will be involved? I don't know that.  Probably a few others, but i can't afford to pay anyone.  It's likely that i will use a few other hound handlers, but this is a research project and I do not want it to look/seem/appear to be recreational.  We need professional handlers and dogs that we trust.

How is it determined whether you will try to chase a cat or not?  A cat that meets the requirements is 1) within the study area 2) not thought to have caused a depredation, and 3) sighted or located around homes/farms

Will you be marking them with permanent paint like was initially suggested? Trying that, the paint only seems to last a few weeks

Will these cats be harder to catch or kill after being harassed for a month? Maybe.  We do not know what response to expect.  no one has studied that before.

What are the chances these cats will become more aggressive towards people or dogs after being harassed for a month? same as above.  Maybe.


Is there a plan in place to inform the public of this program?  The tribe will be doing a press release and results will be available (published) afrer the project is complete.  I will be doing some updates as data is generated



He calls fish and game and their response is don't feed the deer which I think is BS. No mention of this program. Seems like this cat would have fit right into your plan. Cat that hasn't done anything wrong but was spotted near homes.   We're working on that....

[bigskyhounds]

Thank you for answering my questions. Just one more! Where is the study area located? When you brought this up at the meeting in chewelah I thought it was going to be ran on state ground. With the tribe funding this, is it on tribal grounds this will be taking place?

[Rainier10]

So I have a question as well.

Any chance a guy can pay to tag along? Sit shotgun and look for tracks to follow, get to the treed cat, take photos and then be the paintball shooter?

I would be really interested if possible.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Thank you for answering my questions. Just one more! Where is the study area located? When you brought this up at the meeting in chewelah I thought it was going to be ran on state ground. With the tribe funding this, is it on tribal grounds this will be taking place?

this project is taking place on State, Federal, and private land when we can get permission.  Right now I am permitted in Spokane, Lincoln, Pend Oreille and Stevens counties

[bigskyhounds]

Were you guys running a lion near eloika lake today? Heard some hounds working from the job site I was on. Just curious if that was you or someone else? If it was you was this part of your study or a removal?

[WAcoyotehunter]

Were you guys running a lion near eloika lake today? Heard some hounds working from the job site I was on. Just curious if that was you or someone else? If it was you was this part of your study or a removal?

That was a lethal removal, not part of the project

[nwwanderer]

Please respond early and often to the state that hounds are a tool that should be legal, I am confident that the work WAcoyotehunter  is doing will be a positive for that change.

[bigskyhounds]

Were you guys running a lion near eloika lake today? Heard some hounds working from the job site I was on. Just curious if that was you or someone else? If it was you was this part of your study or a removal?

That was a lethal removal, not part of the project

Sounded like the cat jumped a couple of times. Just something about listening to dogs work whether it's your dogs or someone elses. I had to leave so never heard the shot. My work pace definitely slowed down the moment I heard hounds trailing.

Was this cat a female or a tom? Estimated age?

[bigskyhounds]

Did you or enforcement determine the next call was coyotes burying chickens?

[bigskyhounds]

With your inside knowledge and experience what are your opinions on lion seasons and quotas? What do you believe our lion density is at? Are you advocating for increased harvest and extended seasons?

You guys removed about 70 lions last year for the wdfw and that's not all of the cats that were removed from the sounds of it. If this isnt evidence and proof that we have a big problem with lion populations what will prove that?

Do you feel if wdfw was doing their job at managing predators and ungulates we would be in a position for the need to remove 70 plus lions a year?

What is the goal of your study?

What kind of results do you expect?

What kind of data do you have to compare your results to?

What will be done with these results to help our problem with over population of lions and declining ungulate herds?

Is this study supposed to be a baseline to help establish a pursuit season?

If harassing lions keeps them from killing goats is it a possibility the wdfw will be spending money every year to harass all the lions in the state? I can see it being like the range rider situation. Instead of actually managing wildlife we will just throw more money at a problem that doesn't actually do much good in the big picture.

Seems obvious and clear to me that having a hound season greatly decreases the chances of depredations or an attack on a person. I don't have numbers on hand but I would imagine a state like Idaho or Montana doesn't remove anywhere close to 70 lions statewide in a year let alone in a select few counties.

If it was possible would you support the reversal of the hound hunting ban?

[WAcoyotehunter]

These are all great questions, I'm in the field almost everyday right now and won't be at my computer at all today.

I'll try to spend some time answering these when I get a minute.

[bigskyhounds]

Was that removal a tom or a female? Wondering because there was possibly another lion just across the river from that cat nearby houses. No idea on the age of track but it was found Saturday after the removal.

[nwwanderer]

Thanks bigskyhounds, on track

[WAcoyotehunter]

With your inside knowledge and experience what are your opinions on lion seasons and quotas? What do you believe our lion density is at? Are you advocating for increased harvest and extended seasons?  I couldn't begin to guess what lion densities are.  That would take a pretty big research effort. We are not advocating for or against any changes to the hunting season.  That is up to the public and WDFW to figure out and not the intent of our project

You guys removed about 70 lions last year for the wdfw and that's not all of the cats that were removed from the sounds of it. If this isnt evidence and proof that we have a big problem with lion populations what will prove that?  This might be more of a statement than a question. Again, I'm not in a position to make a determination on the population.  Depredations have been increasing for a couple years.

Do you feel if wdfw was doing their job at managing predators and ungulates we would be in a position for the need to remove 70 plus lions a year? See above.

What is the goal of your study? To learn about cougar behavioral response to pursuit by hounds/people

What kind of results do you expect? EARLY results show an increase in flight initiation and an increase in flight distance.  So, after being treed by dogs/handled, the cougars seem to be mobilizing more quickly to the sound of human voice and moving further after hearing it.

What kind of data do you have to compare your results to? Not much.  A project in CO did some aversive conditioning work, but not with the same technique or technology.  There are no useful published cougar flight-initiation-distance studies

What will be done with these results to help our problem with over population of lions and declining ungulate herds? Probably nothing.  This is just a research project to answer a couple specific questions.  It would be up to the state to determine harvest levels

Is this study supposed to be a baseline to help establish a pursuit season? This study is only to provide some insight into how a cat behaves/responds after hazing, when the same stimuli (human voices) reappears on the landscape.  it would be up to WDFW to make any management decisions based on the data. 

If harassing lions keeps them from killing goats is it a possibility the wdfw will be spending money every year to harass all the lions in the state? I can see it being like the range rider situation. Instead of actually managing wildlife we will just throw more money at a problem that doesn't actually do much good in the big picture.

Seems obvious and clear to me that having a hound season greatly decreases the chances of depredations or an attack on a person. I don't have numbers on hand but I would imagine a state like Idaho or Montana doesn't remove anywhere close to 70 lions statewide in a year let alone in a select few counties.

If it was possible would you support the reversal of the hound hunting ban?  Yes