Tradition

[turkey slayer]

I have hunted turkeys in washington for 13 years and havested 18 birds during the spring hunt. I have no problem shooting a jake. If it comes in to a call then it's a dead bird. I have shoot 6 or 7 jakes and the rest have been Toms.

I am against stalking turkey that is how people get hurt and killed.

The ambushing part can be sticky. The only way that I will ambush a turkey is if I have scouted and know there patterns (feeding area and watering holes). I mostly hunt on Private property so it is easier to pattern bird then state land. Don't get me wrong I have call 95% of my bird in, but if they are really hened up and you no the patterns then you it if they wont come into a call.

When I hunt roost area I stay 80 to 100 yard away from the Trees that they are in. I do not hunt bird late at night I just scout them and roost them. I think when hunting a roosting area at night you can push bird out of the area then hunting them there in the morning. I have shot 50% of my bird an hour into the day and the rest have been 10:00 to 4:00. The bird that I have gotten around roost tree in the mornings have always came back at night.

This is just my 

[300rum]

One of the funnest hunts and most challenging hunts I have ever been on was when I was drawn for a fall any turkey tag a few years ago and used a bow.  I had two shots and missed both on stalks and at one point stalked to 3 yards, in stocking feet, to a half a dozen birds and was at full draw but couldn't get a shot because of the brush.  I have hunted with a shotgun but won't do it again, it just isn't sporting enough and I would rather go after them instead of the other way around.

[fishunt247]

300, have you tried hunting them in the spring? It's a whole new ballgame. In the fall they are like grouse. Getting one to come to your call in the spring is far more challenging than stalking one in a fall with a bow

[Machias]

I no longer hunt them in the fall and haven't for a few years, they really are too easy, the hardest part is getting close enough to break them up.  I might try it though this fall with my new Sapphire Hawk Longbow, that would be a hoot!!

[@RCHER]

Every person's book of ethics reads differently than the rest. Every situation is different than every other. We all have personal likes and dislikes and tend to gather with those who share similar paths in life. Not much you can do about those things that don't go your way. Doesn't keep some of us from trying to make others see the world through our eyes. It's what keeps these community forum sites in business.

Keep in mind it's also one of the key reason most people don't visit sites like this.

[300rum]

I will try to sneak up and shoot just about anything with a bow, chickens, grouse, turkey, marauding sage rats and it really doesn't matter to me what time of the year.  The reason I don't particularly want to be out there right now doing it is that there are a few guys with guns trying to do the same thing.  Maybe we should have an archery only spring turkey hunt.    

300, have you tried hunting them in the spring? It's a whole new ballgame. In the fall they are like grouse. Getting one to come to your call in the spring is far more challenging than stalking one in a fall with a bow

[Tom Tamer]

Fishhunt I don't think we differ too much, I understand and also want to call in any bird that I hunt, but sometimes it takes some different tact, I also recall one hunt where we sat up in an area they use to flock up in the morning, well they already got past us and the tom gave me the" I hear you, I'm heading downthis way, but I'll be back" Gobble. SO about two hours later a hen lead him back but around behind, I knew they where heading to an opening behind us. So I belly crawled over to the edge of the clearing.....the only mistake I made was I didn't quit calling. The henwalked past but the tom didn't follow. I got impatient and kept calling, well the hen did a 180 went back to the tom and drug him off.

 Again I don't go out looking to " Stalk" or ambush in the manner it is meant here. But I will use what I can to get close for the shot as far as again woodsmanship is concerned.
  And when speaking of sitting under the roost tree, I meant it to come out just the way you and most described....as close as possible..... But I understand like you that most these birds, don't have a specific roost tree quite like they may back East. Even the Easterns I hunt can roost anywhere within a square mile on any given day. I don't begrudge anyone for setting self imposed rules to their own hunt, that's the beauty of this Country( allthough it threatened now) but our freedom of choice. As long as it's legal and doesn't infringe on others go for it.

 Machias I agree with you lot more than our discussion may show I too hope that this bird that is finally living in our State is as revered as much as anything else someday. I love every aspect of Turkeys and the hunting behind them. As I tell most at our NWTF or other functions the folks that started the modern day flocks here an us today our pioneering this sport, so lets do everything we can to make it as great as it is in Alabama or Penn.

 SO I try and use books and periodicals like Turkey&turkeyhunting mag to read up on the steeped tradition and how those folks back east hunt them to see how it's done elsewhere. I know there are those here that hunt them as junk birds and I have been asked, why I'd want to hunt them like we do in the spring when it's much easier to just run out and shoot one. Well I tell them that they haven't experienced the true way to hunt them. Mu first in '00 was a Jake I just happened upon. It was the first time in four years of hunting I got into gun range.....while it was satisfying to finally get one I still had an empty feeling about it. The very next year I finally got what I call a ' Will Primos" Hunt....ya know like the videos......call....gobble...call...gobble gobble gobble...h cam in strutted gave me the full show.....BOOM! after that I was totally hooked

 I can't wait til my Son an Daughter get to the hunting age so I can pass this on

[Machias]

Fishhunt I don't think we differ too much, I understand and also want to call in any bird that I hunt, but sometimes it takes some different tact, I also recall one hunt where we sat up in an area they use to flock up in the morning, well they already got past us and the tom gave me the" I hear you, I'm heading downthis way, but I'll be back" Gobble. SO about two hours later a hen lead him back but around behind, I knew they where heading to an opening behind us. So I belly crawled over to the edge of the clearing.....the only mistake I made was I didn't quit calling. The henwalked past but the tom didn't follow. I got impatient and kept calling, well the hen did a 180 went back to the tom and drug him off.

 Again I don't go out looking to " Stalk" or ambush in the manner it is meant here. But I will use what I can to get close for the shot as far as again woodsmanship is concerned.
  And when speaking of sitting under the roost tree, I meant it to come out just the way you and most described....as close as possible..... But I understand like you that most these birds, don't have a specific roost tree quite like they may back East. Even the Easterns I hunt can roost anywhere within a square mile on any given day. I don't begrudge anyone for setting self imposed rules to their own hunt, that's the beauty of this Country( allthough it threatened now) but our freedom of choice. As long as it's legal and doesn't infringe on others go for it.

 Machias I agree with you lot more than our discussion may show I too hope that this bird that is finally living in our State is as revered as much as anything else someday. I love every aspect of Turkeys and the hunting behind them. As I tell most at our NWTF or other functions the folks that started the modern day flocks here an us today our pioneering this sport, so lets do everything we can to make it as great as it is in Alabama or Penn.

 SO I try and use books and periodicals like Turkey&turkeyhunting mag to read up on the steeped tradition and how those folks back east hunt them to see how it's done elsewhere. I know there are those here that hunt them as junk birds and I have been asked, why I'd want to hunt them like we do in the spring when it's much easier to just run out and shoot one. Well I tell them that they haven't experienced the true way to hunt them. Mu first in '00 was a Jake I just happened upon. It was the first time in four years of hunting I got into gun range.....while it was satisfying to finally get one I still had an empty feeling about it. The very next year I finally got what I call a ' Will Primos" Hunt....ya know like the videos......call....gobble...call...gobble gobble gobble...h cam in strutted gave me the full show.....BOOM! after that I was totally hooked

 I can't wait til my Son an Daughter get to the hunting age so I can pass this on

 

[Pathfinder101]

Good topic Machias.  You are right, it is a question of tradition.  While I wouldn't dream of sluicing ducks or pheasants, I never considered that there was anything unethical about stalking turkeys.  Like you said, we didn't grow up hunting them here (there were very few turkeys in Eastern WA when I was a kid growing up in the 80's.  No one I knew hunted them).  It will be the guys learning and perfecting the sport now that pass these traditions and eithics down to their kids.
Great thread.

[Wacenturion]

A lot of good comments here.  Basically turkey hunting, or any form of hunting for that matter is a case of ethics...different approaches for different critters.  The stalking elk comparison earlier is not similar to stalking turkeys, as one is wearing blaze orange for safety vs. the absence of blaze to be fully concealed.  Safety is the paramount issue in turkey hunting.....more so than other hunting activities.

Part of the unethical turkey hunting by some came about due to the regulations of the WDFW.  Specifically the free tags of a few years ago.  Up until that point you could purchase one tag for each of the three subspecies in Washington.  Kill one and move on.  Turkey hunters were viewed as a non issue by landowners.  They were viewed as a good risk lets say to allow access to. 

Then come the "free taggers".  "Hey Bob, we got a free turkey tag with our small game license....what the heck....lets give it a go."  Well a lot of the free taggers drove around, saw turkeys, and tried to shoot them from the roads.  Worse yet...they stalked any turkey sound.....I'm sure many here have had that experience....I have.  Now the image of turkey hunting and turkey hunters began to change in the eyes of some landowners.  I guess when you increase the number of apples in the barrel, you're eventually going to get bad ones.  Unfortunately, WDFW artificially filled the barrel early.

Then came the combination of two bird spring limits and then the regulation allowing those two bird limits to be taken on the same day, coupled with fall either sex season...then worse...the fall multi bird seasons...all designed to alleviate "nuisance" problems, which in actuality are far fewer than WDFW would have you believe.  In the 90's a Dept. program would trap and relocate birds...everyone happy.  Birds going into new areas to expand opportunity.  That didn't last as powers to be within WDFW wanted to hamstring the program.....that a fact. No you have what I refer to as a toilet backing up in the NE.  Pissed off landowners...no so much because of the turkeys, but because of the lack of help from the agency.

So again....WDFW has artificially created another form of unethical hunter training.  A couple new hunters or old sitting and calling an in on a string runs five or six jakes and boom batter batter, boom batter batter, boom batter batter boom!  Got a couple and probably wounded a couple.  What the hell....doesn't matter.....success and bragging rights back in camp.  Stalking and shooting multiple times...i.e. flock shooting in the fall...same result.  Worse yet....ambushing the flock and killing those lead hens...you know the successful nesters....the ones that bring you that great spring sport we all love in the form of new birds. 

Now while all of us can disassociate from the above...it happens a bunch!  It will eventually take it toll on turkey populations and also on the ethical side of the sport.  Nothing at all wrong with fall seasons if they provide opportunity without risk to the resource.  Personally I prefer the same as spring.....gobbler or turkey with visible beard only in the fall....with only one bird per day.  Still provides all the opportunity without risks.  It trains people to carefully select their target....and not train them to flock shoot and potentially cripple birds.

Success in our fine state at one point was taking a gobbler in the spring, a huge accomplishment, something to be proud of, regardless of technique.  The ultimate success was a "Washington Slam"...getting all three subspecies either in a single season or multiple seasons.  Now success has evolved to a numbers game within a specific area...i.e. NE, SE, etc....bought two tags, but only got one....don't feel as successful.  Oh well...got the fall season to fill the other tags.  Again...a false ethic promoted to us by WDFW.  I have always felt as an agency responsible for selling licenses and regulating opportunity, their biggest responsibility was doing so in a way to promote or foster or train individuals to do it right.  They on the other hand have done the opposite as of late.  It's almost like anything they can do to make turkeys and turkey hunting look bad.  My read anyway for what it's worth.

In response to shooting a jake, I feel any bird that plays the game the right way, and someone calls that bird in, is a trophy.  At the point of contact it becomes a personal choice to either take it or pass.  I had the opportunity to take Rob Keck after his Washington bird.  Rob as many of you know was the former CEO of the NWTF.  One of his turkey goals was to harvest a legal bird in every state that had turkeys...49 to be exact.  He has since accomplished that feat since I took him in the 90's.  The key word here being "legal".  Many of those birds were jakes.....including his Washington bird.  I don't believe the mix of adult or juvenile gobblers make that feast any less successful.  I know in his eyes....any gobbler taken the right way is a trophy bird.  In this case his point of contact choice was more a logistical one I'm sure, as the time he had was critical.;

Anyway great thread....great comments.....always pass on the right ethics when the opportunty presents itself...               

     

[Machias]

Great post Wacenturion.

[turkeydancer]

Well said WaCent ... sorry I missed you guys at your camp, but understand vehicle problems. My truck blew a hose Sat morning on the way home and I got to camp out for 2+ days at the dealer in Ellensberg ... no weekend mechanic and couldn't get the one of a kind hose until Monday @ 2pm anyway.  PM me on your hunt .. nice you are back on the mountain!

[Wacenturion]

Well said WaCent ... sorry I missed you guys at your camp, but understand vehicle problems. My truck blew a hose Sat morning on the way home and I got to camp out for 2+ days at the dealer in Ellensberg ... no weekend mechanic and couldn't get the one of a kind hose until Monday @ 2pm anyway.  PM me on your hunt .. nice you are back on the mountain!

That sucks......have to cut your trip short and then you get stuck in the "windy" city.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

 I am trying to get an eastern with a recurve, I will stick the first legal bird I can and see nothing unethical about it. If I can sneak up on one close enough to get a Pearson Deadhead on a cedar arrow from my 1964 Kodiak into a gobbler I will. But I expect to do it out of my ground blind over dekes. As far as traditions, If I can get my kids and friends involved in turkey hunting, we will start our own traditions.

[Tom Tamer]

See and as you all have pointed out about the fall season is one of the reasons I have yet to ever go, I want to expereince a true fall hunt, locat, scatter and call back in. But most everyone in this statee just " Grouses" them in the fall. Now that's fine for grouse, maybe due to our traditional way of hunting grouse but I don't find it that exciting for turkey.....especially after you experience and true spring hunt

Wacent..I totally agree with you on the WDFW as you know It took me awhile to see through some of their crap, one just has to look at the web site right now. In the midst of our season there isn't one mention or picture of turkeys