Bad news for South Central Wyoming

[Buckjunkie]

Severe conditions are killing Antelope and Deer in record numbers. Even elk are dying in South Central Wyoming.

.https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/03/29/dying-by-the-thousands-miles-of-death-as-wyoming-antelope-deer-and-elk-die-from-winter-starvation/

[MADMAX]

Terrible
I wonder why they aren’t feeding them
You’d think they’d be dropping alfalfa

[Bob33]

Here's another article from today on the topic.

.https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/04/06/wyoming-winter-killing-most-premier-antelope-herds-in-the-entire-world/

[huntnphool]

 More global warming evidence.

[mburrows]

Terrible
I wonder why they aren’t feeding them
You’d think they’d be dropping alfalfa

They are in a lot of places in Wyoming. Same with Idaho and Utah but you can only feed so many head.

[birdshooter1189]

Those pictures are hard for me to look at. That's really sad. Between the photo with 9 dead antelope on a small patch of dirt surrounded by snow. And then the photo from the plane showing solid snow covered hills as far as I can see....My initial response was "just feed them more".  But when I saw the photo from the plane my heart sank as I saw the enormity of the dire situation....

[Stein]

MT hunters shot 1,000 bison as well, tons left the park.

[birdshooter1189]

MT hunters shot 1,000 bison as well, tons left the park.

I saw that too. It also added that the park herd is (was) about 6000 bison. And of the 1000 that were shot by "hunters" in Montana, the majority of them were taken by tribes through special tags and allowances extended to them.

[andrew_in_idaho]

I don’t know about antelope, but feeding deer really doesn’t do any good


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[bearpaw]

I don’t know about antelope, but feeding deer really doesn’t do any good


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Feeding is the only thing keeping elk and deer alive in SE Idaho. They have been feeding for months in some areas. Whenever we have a hard winter they feed.

[Ridgerunner]

It's been a brutal winter across the rockies.  Really sucks, it will be interesting to see how quickly the game comes back but its going to be a few years before things get back to normal.  Even then I'm afraid it will be a "new normal" with lower herd numbers. 

At least here in WA we have been spared of as harsh of a winter. 

[baldopepper]

It will be interesting to see how the various game departments react.  I have read where Wyoming and Colorado are anticipating some fairly severe restrictions. Haven't really heard anything on Montana, and did hear Utah cut back on tags in some units.  Nothing really out of Idaho, even though with some feeding,  estimates in the southeast units are running.in the 60-70% range on deer. It took 6-7 years in Utah after the last severe winter, and realistically many units never have fully recovered. I can tell you it's hard to go back to some of your.old.spots and find way more bleached white skeletons than live animals

[Ridgerunner]

They are already pushing back the shed hunting openers.  I'm guessing some significant tag cuts will be coming. 

I wish I had cashed in my wyoming antelope points last fall, at least I did deer. 

[mburrows]

It will be interesting to see how the various game departments react.  I have read where Wyoming and Colorado are anticipating some fairly severe restrictions. Haven't really heard anything on Montana, and did hear Utah cut back on tags in some units.  Nothing really out of Idaho, even though with some feeding,  estimates in the southeast units are running.in the 60-70% range on deer. It took 6-7 years in Utah after the last severe winter, and realistically many units never have fully recovered. I can tell you it's hard to go back to some of your.old.spots and find way more bleached white skeletons than live animals

Montana won’t cut non resident general tags. I hope they cut some of b tags though the regs already say how many they’re giving out per district for those. We’ve got a lot of snow up high but our winter ranges didn’t get blanked as bad as the other states.

[zwickeyman]

We are finally getting some warmer weather here in the Tetons. Southern slopes are stating to show but the flats are 24" with multiple Ice layers. The survivors so far might make it. Compound low Fawn survival with the possibility of Does aborting their Fawns there wont be many Fawns or Yearlings this year

Any body know how the winter kill is up in the Challis and Sun Valley areas are?

[ipkus]

It's been a brutal winter across the rockies.  Really sucks, it will be interesting to see how quickly the game comes back but its going to be a few years before things get back to normal.  Even then I'm afraid it will be a "new normal" with lower herd numbers. 

At least here in WA we have been spared of as harsh of a winter.

Here in Washington we are already working with “new normal” herd sizes, and they’ll keep getting worse…

[Widgeondeke]

Anyone else get the email today showing the "significant adjustments" made by WGFD? They reduced antelope & deer tags by the thousands. Totally cancelled many seasons. Also shortened many seasons
                                             

[zwickeyman]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

[vandeman17]

Anyone else get the email today showing the "significant adjustments" made by WGFD? They reduced antelope & deer tags by the thousands. Totally cancelled many seasons. Also shortened many seasons
                                             

Just got it and happy they are being proactive. Hopefully hunters understand

[baldopepper]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

  I'm not familiar with idaho.regs, but haven't they already sold all their non resident tags?  Would they actually have to contract non resident hunters and rescind their tags?  I'm sure the residents wouldn't want to see restrictions hitting them but not effecting non residents.  Son in law and his group all have antlerless elk tags for one of the southeast units, wondering if they'll let those hunts go on.

[Farmer72]

Anyone else get the email today showing the "significant adjustments" made by WGFD? They reduced antelope & deer tags by the thousands. Totally cancelled many seasons. Also shortened many seasons
                                             

Just got it and happy they are being proactive. Hopefully hunters understand

It sucks since I had points to get drawn but totally the right thing to do. What I like is they did it the year it happened and not waiting 3 years to cut tags like they do here.

[time2hunt]

Here’s the proposals

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Get-Involved/Public-Meetings


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[zwickeyman]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

  I'm not familiar with idaho.regs, but haven't they already sold all their non resident tags?  Would they actually have to contract non resident hunters and rescind their tags?  I'm sure the residents wouldn't want to see restrictions hitting them but not effecting non residents.  Son in law and his group all have antlerless elk tags for one of the southeast units, wondering if they'll let those hunts go on.

Thats a good point. Im not sure how they would handle it

[vandeman17]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

  I'm not familiar with idaho.regs, but haven't they already sold all their non resident tags?  Would they actually have to contract non resident hunters and rescind their tags?  I'm sure the residents wouldn't want to see restrictions hitting them but not effecting non residents.  Son in law and his group all have antlerless elk tags for one of the southeast units, wondering if they'll let those hunts go on.

Thats a good point. Im not sure how they would handle it

If they recalled a tag that I had draw I would be disappointed but would understand. Not sure others would be but we need to focus on the long game

[Mtnwalker]

So what am I not seeing here? Looks like tag cuts in the area we applied for but the Snotel is looking fairly average. I understand they’ve had a big winter, especially in the south. Is there different data I can look at that is a better representation of the actual conditions than snowtel snowpack?

[WAcoueshunter]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

  I'm not familiar with idaho.regs, but haven't they already sold all their non resident tags?  Would they actually have to contract non resident hunters and rescind their tags?  I'm sure the residents wouldn't want to see restrictions hitting them but not effecting non residents.  Son in law and his group all have antlerless elk tags for one of the southeast units, wondering if they'll let those hunts go on.

Thats a good point. Im not sure how they would handle it

If they recalled a tag that I had draw I would be disappointed but would understand. Not sure others would be but we need to focus on the long game

People would lose their minds.  I've never understood why a State with a high risk of winterkill wouldn't wait to see how the winter turns out every year before they set tag numbers and seasons.

[WAcoueshunter]

It's been a brutal winter across the rockies.  Really sucks, it will be interesting to see how quickly the game comes back but its going to be a few years before things get back to normal.  Even then I'm afraid it will be a "new normal" with lower herd numbers. 

Nature is resilient...it will take a few years, but things will bounce back.  The year I hunted H, I think 2011 or so (?), Guy Eastman was also in there and proclaimed it to be the worst winterkill in the history of the planet.  Like 90% winterkill.  Similar impact on the neighboring antelope herds.  Pretty much what he's saying now for 2023.  H and G turned around okay in between.   

[Buckjunkie]

It's been a brutal winter across the rockies.  Really sucks, it will be interesting to see how quickly the game comes back but its going to be a few years before things get back to normal.  Even then I'm afraid it will be a "new normal" with lower herd numbers. 

Nature is resilient...it will take a few years, but things will bounce back.  The year I hunted H, I think 2011 or so (?), Guy Eastman was also in there and proclaimed it to be the worst winterkill in the history of the planet.  Like 90% winterkill.  Similar impact on the neighboring antelope herds.  Pretty much what he's saying now for 2023.  H and G turned around okay in between.   

Been hunting H since 1994. I don’t pay much attention to the Eastmans. Biologists will tell you that deer in G & H recover faster than other herds. After a bad die off, does will throw two or three fawns. That said, it takes a while until the quality comes back. It was already bad already. A resident friend that usually kills 200” deer every year had a hard time finding a 180” buck last season. This doesn’t help.

While G & H are impacted, the news is saying South Central Wyoming is hit the hardest.

[bobcat]

So what am I not seeing here? Looks like tag cuts in the area we applied for but the Snotel is looking fairly average. I understand they’ve had a big winter, especially in the south. Is there different data I can look at that is a better representation of the actual conditions than snowtel snowpack?

The thing thing that you can't tell from the snotel data is that the snow was deep and never went away on all the lower elevation winter range. That's not normal. The Snotel is just high elevation which isn't really that relevant for winter survival.

[baldopepper]

I have a feeling Idaho will do the same thing and they should

  I'm not familiar with idaho.regs, but haven't they already sold all their non resident tags?  Would they actually have to contract non resident hunters and rescind their tags?  I'm sure the residents wouldn't want to see restrictions hitting them but not effecting non residents.  Son in law and his group all have antlerless elk tags for one of the southeast units, wondering if they'll let those hunts go on.

Thats a good point. Im not sure how they would handle it

If they recalled a tag that I had draw I would be disappointed but would understand. Not sure others would be but we need to focus on the long game

People would lose their minds.  I've never understood why a State with a high risk of winterkill wouldn't wait to see how the winter turns out every year before they set tag numbers and seasons.

I think it's a money thing. Not that many put in for multiple tags, so the first to issue tags gets more applicants than states that start later and only get those who haven't been successful in the earlier state.  Not sure that still matters as most sell out anyway. I ve wondered that same thing for a long time and it's about the only reason I can come up with. Certainly could be a problem for a state like Idaho this year, but, hate to say it, I'll be surprised if Idaho makes any changes for this year. Too much money involved.

[andrew_in_idaho]

Idaho regs are out, they aren’t doing anything about the winter. All the tags that were sold in December are general season tags.


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[bearpaw]

Idaho made changes, mostly from proposed increases due to the hard winter or from public input. They had planned to increase opportunity in several areas, a lot of that didn't happen. Deer are still recovering from the last hard winter a few years ago, most antlerless mule deer hunting had already been curtailed, some elk herds are above objective and some under objective, so there are mixed actions. Unfortunately hard winters are a cycle, every few years we have them, then rebuilding begins again, it's a constant and continuing trend, a way of life for Rocky Mountain herds and hunters!


Interesting to listen to an IDFG verses WDFW season setting!

https://idfg.idaho.gov/article/fg-commission-set-big-game-seasons-2023-24

[hunter399]

Idaho made changes, mostly from proposed increases due to the hard winter or from public input. They had planned to increase opportunity in several areas, a lot of that didn't happen. Deer are still recovering from the last hard winter a few years ago, most antlerless mule deer hunting had already been curtailed, some elk herds are above objective and some under objective, so there are mixed actions. Unfortunately hard winters are a cycle, every few years we have them, then rebuilding begins again, it's a constant and continuing trend, a way of life for Rocky Mountain herds and hunters!


Interesting to listen to an IDFG verses WDFW season setting!

https://idfg.idaho.gov/article/fg-commission-set-big-game-seasons-2023-24

I only watched first ten minutes.
They take people's comments and talk about an action.
No way,they can't treat there trustees that way.

I can't even watch the whole thing,no way.
I can't do it.
Washington Commission is so far up on there high horse pedestal.
Taking trustees comments into consideration is never going to happen.
I'm taking real trustees,not conservation .org people that live in other states.
I just love how someone who has never stepped foot in Washington gets air time at our meetings.
Last Washington meeting I watched was March 18 one.
About spring bear petitions.
There was a guy testified,comments, at the beginning of meeting from new York,with some anti-hunting conservation place in New York.

[hunter399]

Just seen this.
Looks like them deer are doing just fine.

[baldopepper]

Idaho made changes, mostly from proposed increases due to the hard winter or from public input. They had planned to increase opportunity in several areas, a lot of that didn't happen. Deer are still recovering from the last hard winter a few years ago, most antlerless mule deer hunting had already been curtailed, some elk herds are above objective and some under objective, so there are mixed actions. Unfortunately hard winters are a cycle, every few years we have them, then rebuilding begins again, it's a constant and continuing trend, a way of life for Rocky Mountain herds and hunters!


Interesting to listen to an IDFG verses WDFW season setting!

https://idfg.idaho.gov/article/fg-commission-set-big-game-seasons-2023-24

I hope it's just an occasional winter and there's no repeat next year.  Just kind of worrisome that many forecasters are predicting more of the same for the next few years.  I would hope we're  managing on the safe side rather than gambling that next year won't be a repeat Seems extreme weather is getting to be the norm.

[bobcat]

Just seen this.
Looks like them deer are doing just fine.

I saw him say in the comments the last of the video was filmed in mid January. So currently things are much worse.

[Karl Blanchard]

Just seen this.
Looks like them deer are doing just fine.

I saw him say in the comments the last of the video was filmed in mid January. So currently things are much worse.

  those bucks are packing in that video. I know for sure one of those big deer shed mid Jan. That winter range has received more snow the last two months than it got all winter. Those deer are definitely not fine currently.

[hunter399]

Just seen this.
Looks like them deer are doing just fine.

I saw him say in the comments the last of the video was filmed in mid January. So currently things are much worse.

  those bucks are packing in that video. I know for sure one of those big deer shed mid Jan. That winter range has received more snow the last two months than it got all winter. Those deer are definitely not fine currently.

Yes ,I know they had ALOT of snow since this was filmed.
I'm just pulling you guys hair a bit,you know fishing a bit.
But I'd like to think they made it .

[mburrows]

And winter just keeps hanging on, cold down there in WY, looks like snow in the forecast. More snow in the northern half of Montana. 

[Gettin Birdie]

And winter just keeps hanging on, cold down there in WY, looks like snow in the forecast. More snow in the northern half of Montana.

Where are you at Burrows?  I'm south of Lewistown, no snow on the ground on Tuesday, except big drifts left.  Woke up Wednesday, power out, 2-4 foot drifts, or bigger, most snow all season in one dump, heavy and wet, we're stuck at home, put our plow away on the sxs, but it probably wouldn't do crap anyways.  Dogs could hardly run in it, deer are def going to take a hit, I'd venture, already seen 6 winter/predator kill does within a couple square miles of house, lots more than years past. The Brittany has brought home so many deer legs after running around our place this winter, it's crazy!

[Gringo31]

I'd just like to point out what some are getting at....


True conservation is protecting the "crop" (or herd in this case).  When numbers are high, we aim to manage it with increased harvest.  When numbers are low, we back off to protect the crop.  All the while managing for the optimal population.  Doing so yields a higher sustainable harvest with plenty left for seed for the years to come.


After living in this state so long, it seems odd to actually witness it in areas where people actually do their job.

[mburrows]

And winter just keeps hanging on, cold down there in WY, looks like snow in the forecast. More snow in the northern half of Montana.

Where are you at Burrows?  I'm south of Lewistown, no snow on the ground on Tuesday, except big drifts left.  Woke up Wednesday, power out, 2-4 foot drifts, or bigger, most snow all season in one dump, heavy and wet, we're stuck at home, put our plow away on the sxs, but it probably wouldn't do crap anyways.  Dogs could hardly run in it, deer are def going to take a hit, I'd venture, already seen 6 winter/predator kill does within a couple square miles of house, lots more than years past. The Brittany has brought home so many deer legs after running around our place this winter, it's crazy!

Im in Helena. We didnt get any yesterday but we've gotten probably close to 6" since 6AM this morning and still coming down.

Was over in your neck of the woods last weekend, almost got myself in some serious trouble with the mud, had to change plans and camped down around Judith landing.

[dilleytech]

My budy in north central wyoming said the ranchers and guides are pretty pissed WDGF didn’t just shut down the season next year. They have been devastated by this winter and they are in another storm right now.

They should really just shut down out of state hunting for a couple years. But you know it’s all about the money.

[Karl Blanchard]

And winter just keeps hanging on, cold down there in WY, looks like snow in the forecast. More snow in the northern half of Montana.

Where are you at Burrows?  I'm south of Lewistown, no snow on the ground on Tuesday, except big drifts left.  Woke up Wednesday, power out, 2-4 foot drifts, or bigger, most snow all season in one dump, heavy and wet, we're stuck at home, put our plow away on the sxs, but it probably wouldn't do crap anyways.  Dogs could hardly run in it, deer are def going to take a hit, I'd venture, already seen 6 winter/predator kill does within a couple square miles of house, lots more than years past. The Brittany has brought home so many deer legs after running around our place this winter, it's crazy!

Im in Helena. We didnt get any yesterday but we've gotten probably close to 6" since 6AM this morning and still coming down.

Was over in your neck of the woods last weekend, almost got myself in some serious trouble with the mud, had to change plans and camped down around Judith landing.

kayaked from Judith landing to James Kipp last year over 4th of July weekend. Beautifully remote country down there.

[mburrows]

And winter just keeps hanging on, cold down there in WY, looks like snow in the forecast. More snow in the northern half of Montana.

Where are you at Burrows?  I'm south of Lewistown, no snow on the ground on Tuesday, except big drifts left.  Woke up Wednesday, power out, 2-4 foot drifts, or bigger, most snow all season in one dump, heavy and wet, we're stuck at home, put our plow away on the sxs, but it probably wouldn't do crap anyways.  Dogs could hardly run in it, deer are def going to take a hit, I'd venture, already seen 6 winter/predator kill does within a couple square miles of house, lots more than years past. The Brittany has brought home so many deer legs after running around our place this winter, it's crazy!

Im in Helena. We didnt get any yesterday but we've gotten probably close to 6" since 6AM this morning and still coming down.

Was over in your neck of the woods last weekend, almost got myself in some serious trouble with the mud, had to change plans and camped down around Judith landing.

kayaked from Judith landing to James Kipp last year over 4th of July weekend. Beautifully remote country down there.

That’s an awesome stretch of country. Love it over that way. Never actually hunted it but if you’re looking for peace and quiet that’s about as good as it gets