Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: HoofsandWings on June 23, 2012, 02:53:02 PM

Title: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 23, 2012, 02:53:02 PM: I am looking to increase my muzzle velocity.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 23, 2012, 03:38:58 PM: I shoot 120 grains with 300 grain bullets for elk hunting, but there are very few guns rated for 120-150 of T7-3f. Knight DISC's are rated for 150 grains of any BP or BP sub, but most often the harmonics created in barrel by that much powder end up stretching the heck out of your groups.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: RG on June 23, 2012, 06:49:53 PM: Yikes, I shot through an elk side to side at 40 yards with 100 grains of 3f goex and a 220 round ball.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 23, 2012, 07:31:35 PM: I shoot 120g of 777 fffg with a 290tmz.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 23, 2012, 07:59:20 PM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on June 23, 2012, 07:31:35 PM
I shoot 120g of 777 fffg with a 290tmz.

Yep, see I think that is a great elk load for many different circumstances from 20 yards to 200+
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 23, 2012, 08:07:11 PM: Both my cva and tc turn to crap if I get more then about 130 grains of powder down the tube. They just don't groups as well. I have had guns that like 90 grains and some that like 150 grains. 120 seems to be the ticket in both my current guns.

Now that I can bow hunt during my late muzzy tag I don't know how much more powder I will be burning :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 23, 2012, 08:45:53 PM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on June 23, 2012, 08:07:11 PM
Both my cva and tc turn to crap if I get more then about 130 grains of powder down the tube. They just don't groups as well. I have had guns that like 90 grains and some that like 150 grains. 120 seems to be the ticket in both my current guns.

Now that I can bow hunt during my late muzzy tag I don't know how much more powder I will be burning :IBCOOL:

Well that is good since neither the CVA or TC's are rated for anything above 120... and CVA is reluctant to agree to 120 - they used lock you out at 100 grains of loose... With the Bergara barrels they have moved up to 120
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 23, 2012, 09:11:25 PM: I use a knight bighorn. The manual says 150 is max. I will try 120 and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: bobcat on June 23, 2012, 09:17:46 PM: You need to remember, Triple 7 is "hotter" than standard black powder, so even if your muzzleloader is meant for up to say, 150 grains of powder, that would be equivalent to about 125 grains of Triple 7.

This is from the Hodgdon website:

Quote
All charges of Triple Seven or Pyrodex should be measured by VOLUME not weight. A simple, adjustable blackpowder measure is the correct tool for this job. All loads listed in this brochure are measured by VOLUME.
Triple Seven is a high energy product designed to provide the muzzleloading hunter with higher velocities when used in the same VOLUME as blackpowder. To duplicate a blackpowder load velocity using Triple Seven, you must decrease the powder charge by 15%. *See WARNING below.
Pyrodex is lighter in weight than blackpowder and weighs only about 70% as much as blackpowder. However, because Pyrodex yields more energy per pound than does blackpowder, the same volume of Pyrodex gives similar performance to blackpowder. Pyrodex loads given in this manual for muzzleloading guns are measured by volume, not weight.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: HoofsandWings on June 23, 2012, 09:41:55 PM: Thanks Bobcat.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: PolarBear on June 23, 2012, 09:50:13 PM: A buddy of mine did a chronograph study with his muzzy with close to 100 different load combos. He came up with the conclusion that anything over 110 grains of powder is a waste and it does not significantly increase speed, accuracy or velocity. :twocents:
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: RG on June 23, 2012, 11:16:41 PM: There was a writer years ago named Sam Fadala who wrote a lot of muzzleloader articles and a few books. Most of his work was with black powder and pyrodex since the others weren't invented yet. I recall a test he did where he shot progressively larger loads across snow. He found that, above somewhere around 110 to 120 grains or so, the powder wasn't burning completely but was just getting shot out onto the snow unburned. The length of the barrel dictated how much powder was burned before the bullet left the barrel.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: PolarBear on June 23, 2012, 11:40:17 PM: That's kinda what my buddy did but he put some old white bed sheets in front of his muzzle.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 24, 2012, 07:45:37 AM: Quote from: HoofsandWings on June 23, 2012, 09:11:25 PM
I use a knight bighorn. The manual says 150 is max. I will try 120 and see how it goes.

Your Big Horn is rated for 150 grains of loose or Pellets. In their manual they print the rating is for any BP or BP Substitute powder. The next portion of the statement you have to match with is the weight of the bullet..

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2F2011KnightLoads.jpg&hash=0da0d60cd550fba92efdf3aa549a846f91653205)

With that... I would say that in a plunger gun like a Big Horn I would and do limit my loads to 110 grains of T7-3f with up to a 300 grain bullet.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 24, 2012, 07:50:08 AM: Quote from: PolarBear on June 23, 2012, 09:50:13 PM
A buddy of mine did a chronograph study with his muzzy with close to 100 different load combos. He came up with the conclusion that anything over 110 grains of powder is a waste and it does not significantly increase speed, accuracy or velocity. :twocents:

I know that is the common belief and it was pretty much true with true black powder and the Pyro's, but T7 and BH do not follow along those lines...

Here is an incomplete chrono table for a 50 shooting T7 and BH - you can see the velocities of each load.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2F50calT7vsBHVelocity.jpg&hash=e73c9bcb9589fcc3a3800917c76aee520f9aa395)

And with this one for a 45, which is complete

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2F45VelocityTest.jpg&hash=75d1320079c8d96b8b64e5568b5ae5e47e00f0a5)
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 24, 2012, 08:05:48 AM: Yeah the cva is 120 and my tv black diamond is 150. Now that is black powder or the old RS I use to shoot. Like Bobcat said 777 is some strong stuff and with loose I don't know if I would ever go over like 130 with it. Even though I know enough people that shoot 3 50g pellets in there's. I am sure there is a difference in velocity on the pellets and powder that makes them a little lighter on velocity.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Sabotloader on June 24, 2012, 10:57:28 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on June 24, 2012, 08:05:48 AM
Yeah the cva is 120 and my tv black diamond is 150. Now that is black powder or the old RS I use to shoot. Like Bobcat said 777 is some strong stuff and with loose I don't know if I would ever go over like 130 with it. Even though I know enough people that shoot 3 50g pellets in there's. I am sure there is a difference in velocity on the pellets and powder that makes them a little lighter on velocity.

But keep in mind 3 50 grain pellets, either Pyro or T7, are equal to 150 grains of Black Powder or 120 grains of loose T7. There are now T7 mag pellets that are more powerful.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Chukarhead on July 08, 2012, 10:40:54 PM: Quote from: Sabotloader on June 23, 2012, 07:59:20 PM
Quote from: carpsniperg2 on June 23, 2012, 07:31:35 PM
I shoot 120g of 777 fffg with a 290tmz.

Yep, see I think that is a great elk load for many different circumstances from 20 yards to 200+

+2 Our go-to load for elk/deer.
Title: Re: Does anyone use 120-150 grains of triple 7 FFFG
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on July 08, 2012, 10:50:48 PM: Don't know about 777, but with real black powder, an overcharge would just result in a bunch of unburned powder going out the barrel. wasteful, but not dangerous.