Post by: yorketransport on June 27, 2012, 09:42:33 PM
First up you need to find a donor rifle. For me, this is always a Savage 110/10 based gun. Caliber doesn't really matter, just be sure that you have the correct action length. (you don't want to buy a short action if you're building a 7mm Mag) This includes the Stevens Model 200, but not the Edge/Axis series. This will also work for the Marlin XL 7, but I have not personally worked with one of those. For a budget gun I suggest waiting until the Stevens goes on sale. I've picked them up brand new for $250. The Stevens will come with a very basic trigger which can be tweaked into a decent, function hunting trigger with a pull around 3#. They can go less but I'm not fond of working them that much. A better option which will let you start out with an accutrigger is to search the pawn shops, gun shops, and online classifieds for a used Savage 110/10 (the 110 is a long action, the 10 is a short action) I've bought at least 6 used Savages, with accutriggers and cheap scopes, for $300 or less. Two of those were actually stainless! The number one rule in buying a donor rifle is DON'T SHOOT THE DONOR RIFLE! :chuckle: 75% of the time, the donor shoots so well that I end up keeping the original barrel. :bash:
Now that you have your donor rifle you need to decide what your over all budget really is. If you want to keep it as cheap as possible, you'll need to work with the factory stock to save money. The factory "tupperware" stocks aren't great but they are entirely adequate with a little love. Knowing what your true budget is will determine which parts of the donor you will keep and which parts you'll sell to help fund the project. A factory Savage barrel is worth anywhere from $40-200 depending on caliber, contour, twist rate, finish and round count. A factory stock is worth $30 for a cheap blind mag Stevens stock, or $200+ for an HS Precision stock. Factory triggers are worth $10-30.
For a barrel, decide if you need a brand new barrel, or if you're willing to buy a used one. I've bought low round count PacNors for as little as $150. McGowan and Shilen barrels show up in the same price range pretty often. I bought my most recent McGowan (a stainless 20" 358 Win) for $70 shipped. Not bad for a $250 barrel! :IBCOOL: Most factory Savage barrels with shoot around .75 MOA with a little load development. Many will do much better. Most of the stainless factory barrels have been between .5-.75, with varmint barrels doing much better at times. I just sold a 26" SS Fluted 223 barrel for $125 and that barrel was shooting well below .5 MOA. If you want to get a new barrel on a budget, I recommend Criterions. They are a button rifled Krieger, and the same barrel Weatherby uses. The last one I had was a 26" 6mm BR (varmint contour) which was shooting in the .3" range with no load development. The price of a Criterion barrel has gone up in the last year, but new ones are about $280. I sold my 6 BR for $200. Jim at Northland Shooters Supply stocks Criterion barrels in a variety of calibers and contours which are ready to ship right now with no wait time!
For the super low budget rifle, this is where you'd stop. All you need to do now is slap it together. No gunsmith necessary! Check out this video to see how.
http://youtu.be/bsM6_J8doIE (http://youtu.be/bsM6_J8doIE)
This guy really knows his stuff! ;) If any of you local guys need help, just let me know. I have all the tools you'll need to do it your self, and I'd be happy to help you out.
So that's really all there is to it. Here's a break down of the costs:
$300 (donor rifle)
- $50 (selling your old barrel. You may get more than this)
+$250 (a little more for a new barrel, a little less for a used one)
$500!
This is pretty bare bones, but it's just to show that it can be done. I've helped other people build 6 Savages in this price range. They all get tweaked, tuned and upgraded though as finances allow. Change that used Criterion barrel to a new, nitrided Benchmark, and you just blew $600 for just a barrel! Swapping out that factory stock for an XLR Industries Chasis and an AI mag or two will cost you another $900. A new trigger, $150. A T&T job at Sharp Shooter Supply another $150. More money doesn't always make the gun shoot better. Just look cooler. But that's half the fun isn't it?
This rifle was built entirely out of parts I picked online over the course of 1 year. The 28" PacNor 300 WSM barrel came off of my first $600 home build. The gun doesn't shoot any better after sinking another $1400 into it (not counting the scope), but it sure is pretty! It's still a .3 MOA rifle as far as I've shot it, just like when I first built it.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2F0e2bef02.jpg&hash=9e753dd29cf51375d0ad2bf3ad1a8e40fbab9102)
So there you go. You really can build a $500 gun that will shoot less than .5 MOA. I left out a lot of little steps, but this post is getting pretty long, and I'm getting hungr :hello:y!
Andrew
Post by: wraithen on June 27, 2012, 09:59:40 PM
Post by: FC on June 27, 2012, 10:14:03 PM
So you tweaked the trigger and change the barrel and that's the semi custom? Not what I had in mind.
Truthfully those are probably the two things that would do the most for accuracy on a Savage action, I would think that a stock with good bedding and no flex would be next on the list.
Post by: yorketransport on June 27, 2012, 10:45:59 PM
So you tweaked the trigger and change the barrel and that's the semi custom? Not what I had in mind.
Short answer, yes. Isn't that what happens when you send it to smith to have the gun worked on? That's why it's only a semi custom.
There's no real advantage to having a Savage action blueprinted because of the floating bolt head. The bolt head corrects for any misalignment of the action threads. You could have the action timed and tuned by Sharp Shooter, but that won't change the way the gun shoots. It will make the action operate smoother though.
Next up the smith will tune the trigger, or just install a new one. Either one you can do yourself. Why pay somebody else to do it?
For the biggest change the smith will chamber and headspace a new barrel. With a Savage, you don't need to have this done. You simply buy a prefit barrel which you thread on and headspace yourself.
The stock may or may not need to be tweaked. All that really needs to be done is make sure the the barrel and rear tang are free floating. Bedding would probably help, but not always necessary.
You can build a fancier rifle, but it will cost you. And it may not shoot any better. I have seen guns which cost well over $3k to put together and don't shoot as well as some of my $3-400 guns.
Andrew
Post by: AWS on June 28, 2012, 08:13:46 AM
Stevens doner in 243 for $250 and the seller threw in a Leupold 6x scope because I didn't try and hagle with him.
So I have $650 into the rifle including glass and $200 in left over parts. It will shoot .5 at 200yrds
I have Savage rifles in 22-204, 6mm-204 and 25-204, one ER Shaw barrel new, one PacNor barrel and one rechamberred Savage barrel. All were under $500 each. I just had to see what you could do with the 204 Ruger case and it has been fun, beyond my expectations.
Post by: grundy53 on June 28, 2012, 08:35:14 AM
Post by: JohnVH on June 28, 2012, 08:48:51 AM
But yours looks cooler.
Post by: wraithen on June 28, 2012, 09:31:52 AM
Post by: JohnVH on June 28, 2012, 09:48:18 AM
Your box stock stevens won't do it with a tricep strap. :chuckle:
Lost me there..
Tricep strap
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F21HDlqrjHOL._SL500_AA300_.jpg&hash=136b9f50627732c50857e8ba52430a6b5f6793a9)
Stevens 200 at 100yds 3shots
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjohnvh.smugmug.com%2Fphotos%2F453163579_nYQNy-L.jpg&hash=740fef642fdb2960bca756396596b6e8758ecb54)
Post by: wraithen on June 28, 2012, 09:54:50 AM
Post by: JohnVH on June 28, 2012, 09:55:39 AM
Think of a sling on the rifle with an extra loop that goes around the non-firing hands arm, that is pulled tight to allow more stable shooting while standing or in an otherwise unsupported position. Your current stock with flex into the next county if you attempted this.
why would I need to do that? never have yet, with anything. :dunno:
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2012, 10:07:09 AM
looks cool, but I guess I dont get the point, just so you can say you did it yourself? My box stock $250 savage/stevens will outshoot it for half the money and no time..
But yours looks cooler.
I you're happy with the factory chamberings, then you're right. The most accurate rifle I've ever owned was a stock savage in 22-250. The primary reason I see for customizing the rifle is to get a nonstandard caliber/barrel configuration.
If Savage offered a 20" 358 Winchester, 19" 338/284 Winchester, 18" or 22" 338/375 Ruger etc. I wouldn't need to mess with them at all. It's just a fun way to have something different without spending a ton of money.
Andrew
Post by: jaymark6655 on June 28, 2012, 10:14:19 AM
Post by: deerslyr on June 28, 2012, 11:15:55 AM
Im still deciding on what action though, the 200 or 10. I love the accutrigger but the donor rifle is usually 100 to 150 more. Whats your opinion yorketransport?
Post by: arrowflinger on June 28, 2012, 12:04:47 PM
Oh and I have a 7mm rem mag, what should I do with it? I do not think it will stay a rem mag.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: wraithen on June 28, 2012, 12:52:34 PM
Here is one I built, donor was a 110 converted to a .257 Roberts. I think I have about 900 into it with glass. I had the action blue printed.
Oh and I have a 7mm rem mag, what should I do with it? I do not think it will stay a rem mag.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ummm... give it to me? :chuckle:
Post by: arrowflinger on June 28, 2012, 01:30:52 PM
Here is one I built, donor was a 110 converted to a .257 Roberts. I think I have about 900 into it with glass. I had the action blue printed.
Oh and I have a 7mm rem mag, what should I do with it? I do not think it will stay a rem mag.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ummm... give it to me? :chuckle:
:sry:
Post by: wraithen on June 28, 2012, 04:27:28 PM
I guess I need to look into how to safely tweak the trigger and see if I'm comfortable doing something like that. I do know that I absolutely hate the stock on the stevens line. It's way too flexible for me to even want to bother bedding the action. The only problem I have with building one is finding the parts locally. Donor savages aren't common in my local area that don't cost near as much used as they would new, especially since I don't pay state fees for delivery of firearms.
Post by: buckfvr on June 28, 2012, 04:47:02 PM
Post by: Dan-o on June 28, 2012, 04:51:33 PM
Cool and informative for most of us.
Post by: AWS on June 28, 2012, 06:52:13 PM
Post by: yorketransport on June 28, 2012, 08:49:57 PM
The factory stocks are pretty flimsy, but if you open up the barrel channel they aren't that bad. Just remember, if you screw it up it will be cheap to replace. :chuckle:
I will typically take a piece of 1" pipe, wrap it in sand paper, and just start running it through the barrel channel. This will help clean up any mold lines in the stock and create an even, more open barrel channel. I'll take some sand paper to any other mold lines in the stock as well, like on the comb and bottom of the forend. When you're done, finish it up with some finer grit sand paper, then just paint the stock. This was a standard black Striker stock which I took some sand paper and a little bondo to and molded it to fit my hand a little better. It's just a tan color base coat with a dark brown over spray and cedar branches used to add a pattern.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2Fcellphonepics129.jpg&hash=b73c60608897789e0f16d428283968c821127321)
This one is a right bolt, left port Target action with a 19" 6mm BR Benchmark barrel which has been nitrided. The stock is a Neal Cooper design which is made out of an industrial wood laminate. It was painted with an epoxy primer, then I rattle canned it to give it a smoke look.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2Faugust2011022.jpg&hash=bf7f77589de94c5f544b5f3ef40fa432862124d7)
I have a few others which are much more basic paint jobs. A dark green base coat with some brown stripes, brown with green stripes. Just give it a try. If you don't like it, just repaint it!
Yorke, I do want to thank you for this post. I didn't understand or retain that the action was kind of a unique design for accuracy no matter what. I'm starting to suspect the barrel on my .223 stevens isn't the norm for accuracy. I also have been pretty mean to that rifle sometimes.
I guess I need to look into how to safely tweak the trigger and see if I'm comfortable doing something like that. I do know that I absolutely hate the stock on the stevens line. It's way too flexible for me to even want to bother bedding the action. The only problem I have with building one is finding the parts locally. Donor savages aren't common in my local area that don't cost near as much used as they would new, especially since I don't pay state fees for delivery of firearms.
I've had bad luck with the 223 in general in every rifle I've tried. To me it's just an unpredictable caliber. Try shooting the barrel dirty. A lot of factory barrels are pretty rough inside and shoot best when well fouled.
For the trigger, pull the gun out of the stock and just take some time to look it over. Stevens triggers are pretty simple and do allow for some adjustment without stoning or polishing anything. Just remember that adjustment you make can be undone. When I'm fiddling with a trigger I will sit for an hour testing it buy bouncing the rifle on the butt pad, slamming the bolt closed, and doing anything else I can to try and trip the trigger. If it goes off one time, I adjust it and try again. Just go slow.
I have had pretty good luck finding guns in the Tacoma area. Check out Seattleguns.com as well. There's usually something on there. And remember, it's easy to change the bolt head on the Savage. Your .223 bolt could be changed over to a 308 or WSM bolt face in 5 minutes. A new bolt head is around $30 I think. So if you find a good deal on a rifle with the wrong bolt face, buy it anyways!
Andrew
Post by: arrowflinger on June 28, 2012, 09:04:50 PM
I have a 110 in 7mm Rem Mag and want to change the caliber, any suggestions? Sorry if this hi jacking the thread. you can send me a pm if you would like.
I'm following this closely also. Awesome guns.
Post by: wraithen on June 28, 2012, 09:20:06 PM
Post by: arrowflinger on June 28, 2012, 09:27:26 PM
Anything with the common bolt face (.300wm, 338wm... etc) just involves a barrel. Anything else involves a bolthead swap as well, not to mention possible magazine work.
willing to change, I have a .338 wm already.
Post by: AWS on June 29, 2012, 08:20:18 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FEggshootgun008.jpg&hash=bddd14b2c88acf99725a9e31fccf960b199676de)
Winter coyote rifle in 22-204 (222 Rem Mag Improved a little more capacity than a 223AI and no fireforming)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FDogsandrifles007.jpg&hash=22e2cf26fcd6e6ccdd2b8262f9af4e806591b4de)
Post by: wraithen on June 29, 2012, 06:32:43 PM
Post by: wraithen on June 29, 2012, 09:44:50 PM
Post by: Huntbear on June 29, 2012, 10:17:58 PM
Are these Savages really that good? I now shoot my own builds, (a custom Rem. 700 and a custom blueprinted Howa) and one Sako TRG-s in 338 WM..
I want a 300 WSM that will shoot 1/2 moa or less at 400 yards with handloads... without dropping a grand or more.. Is this possible???
Post by: AWS on June 29, 2012, 10:18:59 PM
I search the net. Sometimes I put out want adds for something special. The 22-250 Barrel from a Predatormasters clasifieds want add, the donnor rifle right here on the HW, and the glass from a want add on 24hourcampfire. I pick up and sell stuff on Savage Shooters, here on HW and Rimfire Central. Chamberring reamers from PTG, triggers from SSS.
I keep a fund for rifles and when I find a deal I can jump on it. If it gets low I sell some stuff I've accumulated that I ended up not using or I've moved beyond.
Most of my donnors are under 300 with many und 200. I picked up a Rem 722 in 300 Sav for $150, a LVSF 22-250 barrel for $100 and a stock for $30 and had a Sako extractor installed for $100.
Poormans LVSF
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi6.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy222%2FBrowndaug%2FDogsandrifles011.jpg&hash=36a3f474ac4120092934b8384c1444e8310c7a86)
Post by: yorketransport on June 29, 2012, 11:27:50 PM
yorke-
I have a 110 in 7mm Rem Mag and want to change the caliber, any suggestions? Sorry if this hi jacking the thread. you can send me a pm if you would like.
I'm following this closely also. Awesome guns.
What would you like to use the gun for? Since you have a 338 Win Mag, I would consider something in the 25 or 6.5mm range. This would give you a good dual purpose coyote/deer gun. If you just want to swap barrels with no other changes, I'd look at the 257 Weatherby. It's a heck of a deer caliber and it should do a real number on coyotes!
If you're into the more exotic calibers I'd try a 6.5-06. If you don't reload the 6.5x284 is a great round as well. You'd need to change both the bolt head and the magazine for either of these but that's easy and inexpensive to do.
Ok.. so I have been completely anti Savage bolt guns for years... I bought one of those cheap 110 with scope combos years ago. The damn thing shot bigger patterns than my 870. It was the biggest POS I ever owned, and it went down the road quickly.
Are these Savages really that good? I now shoot my own builds, (a custom Rem. 700 and a custom blueprinted Howa) and one Sako TRG-s in 338 WM..
I want a 300 WSM that will shoot 1/2 moa or less at 400 yards with handloads... without dropping a grand or more.. Is this possible???
In my experience, the Savages are that good. This is a 5 shot 100 yard group from a factory LRPV in 22-250. This was better than average, but not uncommon.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2FIMG_0888.jpg&hash=817f9c40690626b9a22d4f2593c9d8f06a815755)
A far as the 300 WSM I built one of mine for less than that. This is the gun in the factory HS Precision stock.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2FJan30th004.jpg&hash=b41caee4d5ea1a0ef6461e2884489d79446a13cf)
Same gun after changing stocks to a B&C Medalist.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2F100_0288.jpg&hash=442ec27d4ded89238a5f9803580f88a757879b25)
Here's a break down of the build:
- Used Savage LRPV in .223 (right bolt, left port single shot action action with 8oz Accutrigger) $700
- Used PacNor 28" match grade SS 300 WSM barrel $300
- New magnum bolt head $30
- Sell the factory barrel for $200
Total cost without optics $850. This is to build off of Savage's top of the line target action. If you've never played with a right bolt left port action, you need to try it! Standard actions will feel clumsy by comparison. You can save a couple hundred bucks by picking up a used rifle in any of the WSM calibers at a gunshop for about $500. I sold the HS Precision factory stock for $250 and bought the Medalist for $200 to get a more vertical grip to the stock for shooting prone.
This is a 400 yard group shot off of a bipod out in the woods. The wind switched on me and pushed the two shots to the left. Those were my fault, not the gun. The load is a 185gr Berger VLD moving at 2950fps over a case full of H4350. I've shot better groups, but I would call this average.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2F53bfe6f4.jpg&hash=ff5f4192c92a11b585f64b3c3728d4406f42c152)
Where is everyone finding these barrels and odds and ends?The Savage Shooters Forum has the best classified section around for Savage stuff. It's absolutely worth the $12 a year to get a full site membership over there. Accurate Shooter and Long Range Hunting forums have pretty good classified sections as well.
Just for fun, here's a pic of another one of my rattle can paint jobs. They aren't fancy, just enough to add a little character to the gun. This one is a Model 16 in 204 Ruger I picked up brand new for $375 a couple years ago. It shoots groups in the .3" range with the 32gr V-Max as long as the wind isn't blowing. The wind is pushes those little bullets all over the place!
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi162.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ft260%2Fcollegekidandy%2F100_0346.jpg&hash=3387e993e3fffbfe0e1d60a0b444ad3100e0e2cf)
I currently have a 30" 1-10 twist Brux barrel being made in 375 RUM improved which will go onto another Savage target action. This action started out as an LRPV in 223 as well. The Savage action isn't in the same league as a Bat, Lawton, Surgeon, or any of the other full custom actions, and it never will be. But even a new Savage target action is less than half the cost of any custom action. And once you figure in the cost of having a smith blueprint a Rem 700, the Savage action is cheaper than the Rem as well.
I still love Rugers for a hardcore turn-key hunting rifle. My 375 Ruger Alaskan is one of my top 3 favorite guns I've ever owned. I'm even looking at picking up another used Ruger Hawkeye in 7mm Mag that's for sale up in Tacoma. But when I feel like slapping together some wildcat caliber together I always do it on a Savage. The next project will probably be a 308 Norma Mag. I have a pile of brass and reloading dies sitting on my bench. For about $150 I can have ER Shaw build me a barrel. When I'm bored with it I'll just sell the barrel and move on to the next project.
Andrew
Post by: blmathis12 on June 30, 2012, 08:32:44 PM