Post by: Gringo31 on June 28, 2012, 05:19:01 PM
A Conversation Around the Campfire: What's the Best Elk Cartridge?
by David E. Petzal
This actually did occur at a campfire. As I was staring into the flames, waiting for the wind to shift and blow the smoke into my face, I was approached by a young man who wanted my advice on what kind of rifle to take on his first elk hunt.
“What kind of rifle do you have?” I asked.
“An Ultra Light Arms .280.”
“What kind of scope?”
“A Swarovski 2X-10X.”
“Bless your heart,” I said, “you don’t need a new rifle. You couldn’t get a better outfit if you had Mitt Romney’s money.”
“But will a .280 kill an elk?”
“Listen,” I said, “bullets are so good these days that the cartridge is pretty much meaningless. You shoot it in the right place with anything and it’ll fall over deader than transparency in the Obama Administration. I killed an elk last year with a 6.5/284 and it dropped just as fast as the elk I’ve killed with .338s.”
“But I was looking at the ballistics of the .280 at 400 yards and...”
“The elk won’t know if you’re 300 yards away or 400 yards away or 425 yards away. Hit him in the right place with a good bullet and he’ll have no more chance than a 60-ounce Coke in New York City. Ballistic tables are fun to study, and they give gun writers something to write about, but don’t confuse them with real life.”
“But what if I want a dedicated elk gun?”
“Get a .338 Win Mag. It’ll be heavier, and it’ll kick, but if you want to show the elk the way things are, that’s your huckleberry.”
The young man went away to reflect on all this, and the coot sitting next to me, who likes hunting with old rifles and has had tons of experience in Africa, said:
“What he’ll learn in the next 30 years is that you can hunt whatever you want with a 7x57, or 6.5x55, or .303, or .30/06.
But let him have fun finding out.”
And at that point the smoke did shift into my face and I had to wander away.
Post by: hub on June 28, 2012, 05:54:06 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on June 28, 2012, 06:21:28 PM
Post by: coachcw on June 28, 2012, 06:49:51 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on June 28, 2012, 07:03:21 PM
life, life, WTF ?
Post by: RG on June 28, 2012, 07:10:56 PM
Post by: Huntbear on June 28, 2012, 07:16:07 PM
Have heard a few discussions similar to that, usually making the point of how many animals were killed by the .45-70, .30-30, .30-40 Krag.
Do not forget the .300 Savage... That caliber killed a chit load of animals in my both my mom & dad's hands..
Post by: steen on June 28, 2012, 07:36:34 PM
Post by: brokenvet on June 28, 2012, 08:24:23 PM
Best cartridge for elk? that would depend on who you're talking to. Be it a writer of magazine it would be a definite magnum and nothing below a 300 Win Mag. be it a regular Joe like us it would be what ever you have on hand that is legal to use. That is a .243Win and up.
I have a 338-06 that is dedicated to elk and bear, but I almost always use my 7X57 with Barnes 140 grains TSX bullets.
Post by: Kola16 on June 28, 2012, 08:50:10 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 28, 2012, 09:52:06 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on June 28, 2012, 10:02:15 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on June 28, 2012, 10:28:06 PM
It's funny how many people you ask what they shot their first elk with, usually a 270 or 30 06, something they could handle as a youngster. What do they use now, something bigger with more recoil! The elk is still dead, yet we want bigger magnums to do a job we did before with a lighter rifle. How many guys still use the first rifle they shot their first elk with?
You can run around in a little Toyota 4 cylinder 4 wheel drive getting great gas milage or you can be driving something with a 364 V8 Vortec or bigger under the hood and be getting ten miles to the gallon. I get 10 miles to the gallon, different strokes for different folks.
Post by: johnnyaustin44 on June 28, 2012, 11:37:39 PM
Post by: dannysdaddy on June 29, 2012, 01:14:14 AM
Post by: winshooter88 on July 02, 2012, 02:01:31 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 02, 2012, 04:06:49 AM
I've had every thing from a .243 to a 300 win mag, the the gun that has killed all the deer and elk for me is an old Winchester model 88 in .308 caliber. Never had any deer or elk get away, and most went nowhere or less than 50 yards. "Don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito."
Hahaha! I watched a board memeber here and if you were to ask him. He would tell you he's a experienced shooter. Poke a Elk three times with a .308 at 450 yards, you could hardly tell that elk was taking hits. Another hunter beat him to that elk and when it stood up the other hunter neck shot it and tagged it. This same member used to think .308 Win was the long range cartridgeand turned his nose up to our long range magnums, said they were to big. Only took him a little more expirience to figured it out. Now he's posting .338 Lapua pics. Just takes some guys a little more time. .Haha! He also said NightForce scopes were over priced pieces of crap when they first came out, couldn't help but noticed that's what's parked on his Lapua. .308 may cut it across your back yard but it sure isn't cutting it at distance here in Eastern WA, especially in a Model 88.
I've killed plenty of Elk, half or so have been within 300 yards or less. I had way more rifle and optic than I needed for those ranges but the rest were a ways further out. I shoot what will work for the longer shots as well as the short ones. I wouldn't handi-cap myself in big canyons in the Colockum or Mission unit during elk season by packing a Model 88 .308. Especially when shots start at 500 yards, I'd be keeping that 88 in the timber where one would find most of the Mosquitos.
Post by: RG on July 02, 2012, 06:29:09 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 02, 2012, 07:13:26 AM
Biggerhammer, in the spirit of your post I found you a new profile picture that is more appropriate. Why carry a .45 when there is a .500 out there?
Bought the first 500 Smith to hit town years ago, it loves H110. :tup: They are over rated recoil wise, a stout hand load through a S&W .44 Mag Mountain pistol recoils more and the recoil from a .454 Ruger Super Redhawk makes the 500 a pleasure to shoot. :tup: I thought about a 460 but I like the speed of the .500.
Post by: RG on July 02, 2012, 08:18:43 AM
Post by: coachcw on July 02, 2012, 12:26:59 PM
Post by: snowshoes22 on July 02, 2012, 01:17:49 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on July 02, 2012, 01:52:59 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 02, 2012, 02:04:27 PM
Hammer, you have your opinion and I have mine. Nowhere did I say that I took 500 yard shots. I know my gun and how it shoots and will continue to use it. Not everyone has to take 500 yard shots because they can't get any closer. By the way all of my elk and several of my deer were in the Colockum or the sage brush in the Columbia Basin. The best elk caliber is the one you choose no matter what it is.
Like said earlier in the thread " Diferent strokes for different folks " :tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 02, 2012, 02:16:07 PM
the question wasn't what would work but whats the best !:yeah:
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 02, 2012, 03:14:56 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on July 02, 2012, 11:46:10 PM
I've had every thing from a .243 to a 300 win mag, the the gun that has killed all the deer and elk for me is an old Winchester model 88 in .308 caliber. Never had any deer or elk get away, and most went nowhere or less than 50 yards. "Don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito."
Your 308 with a 165 Acubond at 2800fps will out perform a 350 grain .458dia Speer at 2800, anything past the muzzle for drift and drop. And past 450 yards, the 308 165 AB has more energy. In your case the 308 is indeed the best elk cartridge.
Also, the 308 seems to hold it's own even in Africa on Black Wildebeast in the hands of the likes of George Gardner of GA Precision.
Best elk cartridge for me, if I know my shots will be under 400, I'm happy with my Rbros built 6.5X47Lapua, past that and I'll look at my 300WM or Rbros built 338Lapua Mag.
Post by: rebal69972 on July 03, 2012, 06:53:40 AM
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 03, 2012, 07:32:58 AM
I've had every thing from a .243 to a 300 win mag, the the gun that has killed all the deer and elk for me is an old Winchester model 88 in .308 caliber. Never had any deer or elk get away, and most went nowhere or less than 50 yards. "Don't use a cannon to kill a mosquito."
Your 308 with a 165 Acubond at 2800fps will out perform a 350 grain .458dia Speer at 2800, anything past the muzzle for drift and drop. And past 450 yards, the 308 165 AB has more energy. In your case the 308 is indeed the best elk cartridge.
Also, the 308 seems to hold it's own even in Africa on Black Wildebeast in the hands of the likes of George Gardner of GA Precision.
Best elk cartridge for me, if I know my shots will be under 400, I'm happy with my Rbros built 6.5X47Lapua, past that and I'll look at my 300WM or Rbros built 338Lapua Mag.
Can't help but notice, you converted to Several magnums and obviously someone swayed you from your opinion of NightForces are over priced pieces of crap, I believe you also said the 6mm Rem chambering was crap. :o I would think a guy would be able to tell if a Mulie had antlers or not at 650 with a Nightforce at 22X. :spank_butt:
Maybe you should have George build you a good light weight .308, his guy does great Cerakote work. It will save you the Krylon barrel job. :)
Post by: JohnVH on July 03, 2012, 12:14:26 PM
Vid of 6.5 creedmoor at 605yds
Greybull Precision with Wayne van Zwoll Elk & Coyote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2COAcHZRlI#ws)
Post by: Biggerhammer on July 03, 2012, 01:30:04 PM
The best, is the one you can shoot most accurately...
Vid of 6.5 creedmoor at 605yds
Greybull Precision with Wayne van Zwoll Elk & Coyote (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2COAcHZRlI#ws)
I like the Creedmoor, I wish there were more options when it came to factory rifles and the chambering. I also like the Greybull stock, they are a solid comfortable stock at a fair market price.
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on July 03, 2012, 01:35:15 PM
Just get a 264 mag.
Post by: pianoman9701 on July 03, 2012, 01:36:09 PM
Post by: coachcw on July 04, 2012, 07:08:58 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 04, 2012, 07:16:18 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on July 04, 2012, 08:12:59 AM
Post by: Hyde on July 08, 2012, 08:38:25 AM
i got some good advice when i first got to WA about which weapon to use. this old man simply said the weapon you can shoot comfortably and accurately. big magnums are great but if your scared of it or it kicks like a Missouri mule, you will miss most of the time.
Post by: high country on July 08, 2012, 10:42:25 AM
O.K You guys watch the Best of the West ...have you guys ever heard of staged scenes ? Do you think all these animals they drop out to 1000 yrds just drop like a rock Everytime they shoot something ...NOT !!! This is what they do ..... they go on hunting trips ...lots of them .... and then they only air the ones on T.V that the animals folds on the spot ...which means they save all the episodes that the bullet hit the animal in the neck or in the back which drops them on the spot ....makes great T.V shows not counting the fact they are not going to convince me they are great shots by hitting an animal in the neck at 900 yrds and tell me that was their plan :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: yeah I know bowhunter has mental issues :o :hello:
I have bombed a few elk at long range. Every single one was a bang flop. All were also relaxed when hit. I have hit running elk as close as 20' with my 300rum and had them fail to act hurt. They stack up in short order, but I feel the adrenaline is the deciding factor in the reaction. Most are dead before the report reaches their now dead ears.
Post by: ellensburgpo on July 08, 2012, 11:41:38 AM
O.K You guys watch the Best of the West ...have you guys ever heard of staged scenes ? Do you think all these animals they drop out to 1000 yrds just drop like a rock Everytime they shoot something ...NOT !!! This is what they do ..... they go on hunting trips ...lots of them .... and then they only air the ones on T.V that the animals folds on the spot ...which means they save all the episodes that the bullet hit the animal in the neck or in the back which drops them on the spot ....makes great T.V shows not counting the fact they are not going to convince me they are great shots by hitting an animal in the neck at 900 yrds and tell me that was their plan :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: yeah I know bowhunter has mental issues :o :hello:
I've been thinking the same thing for a while..and not just that bowhunter45 has issues :chuckle:
Post by: C-Money on July 08, 2012, 12:52:15 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 08, 2012, 01:42:38 PM