Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Musketman on September 04, 2012, 07:06:37 AM

Title: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Musketman on September 04, 2012, 07:06:37 AM: Hi
I'm an historian by nature. When I'm not hunting I'm reading U.S. history books or doing living history events with my Civil War re-enacting buddies. So when I hunt, I shoot with traditional flint or cap lock muskets. I like the idea that when I take an animal that I did it like my ancestors did. It's my thing and other people don't have to have my passion for history. I understand that people can hunt within the rules with the new muzzeloaders and they have every right to do so but I think that people don't give the old stuff enough credit for the effective kill-ability that they have. The deer in my avatar dropped dead by a 54 cal patched round ball at 80 yards after it ran 60 yards. It's the classic arms race. Like any industry, companies each year come out with the latest thing that you need and last years thing is now obsolete. I suppose that the new muzzeloaders have advantages over the originals but I feel they are getting too modern firearm like and loose the point of the muzzeloader hunt. If you stop to think about it, I would guess more game have been killed with a patched round ball over the 300 years Europeans have been hunting in North America than anything else. Just saying, don't write off the tools that people used for their very existence, they really work. :)
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: flinter on September 04, 2012, 07:27:40 AM: Hey Musketman, I couldn't of said it better. I hunt deer almost exculisevly with a flintlock and round ball, the two biggest bucks I've killed were with my flinter. Soon I will have a flintlock for elk. I enjoy carrying a gun my ancesters would of used, My elk gun is going to be represetive of Lewis and Clarks guns.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Musketman on September 04, 2012, 07:41:00 AM: Quote from: flinter on September 04, 2012, 07:27:40 AM
Hey Musketman, I couldn't of said it better. I hunt deer almost exculisevly with a flintlock and round ball, the two biggest bucks I've killed were with my flinter. Soon I will have a flintlock for elk. I enjoy carrying a gun my ancesters would of used, My elk gun is going to be represetive of Lewis and Clarks guns.
I think they carried the 1793 Harpers Ferry and a 1803 Charlville pattern muskets. There is an interesting story in their journals about what happened when they fired on their first grizzly bear, found out they are a bit hard to kill. I took out an 1803 smoothbore 69 cal French flinter repro last year but didn't get an opportunity to try it out on meat. Good luck this year. Can't wait for the season to start.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: busterbrown on September 08, 2012, 06:35:42 PM: I agree, love to shoot my Hawkens 54 caliber with patched round ball. Killed many elk, deer with this load.I love to get close, the challenge.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: gadwall on September 23, 2012, 09:47:45 PM: Good post. I started with a hawken about 20 years ago and now have an inline as well. Shot the inline today and am ready for the season. Of the 2 guns, the hawken is by far the better shooter with a patched round ball and about 65 grains of powder; and it shoots a 180 grain round ball and a 350 grain Maxi-Hunter equally as well. the main reason I bought the inline was to have a lighter gun on the long hikes. :twocents:
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Natas5150 on September 24, 2012, 06:42:12 AM: I will jump in here being a little bit of history buff myself. One of my hunting partners hunts with a traditional hawkens. He constantly rags on me for having an inline because he to agrees that inline's are in fact close to a modern rifle. I know it's all in fun. What matters to me is that of the hunter in that they kill the game humanly. I believe in some states such as Pennsylvania they have a two week all traditional muzzy hunt only. I am sorry if someone insulted your rifle or traditional gear altogether. I say whatever works for you go with it regardless of what others say.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 24, 2012, 06:53:07 AM: I have hunted with patched round ball in a multitude of different rifles since 1979. They have always served me very well on mule deer and elk in Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Washington. I currently have two flintlocks I built myself from Track of the Wolf parts. My deer gun is a .50 Tennessee Mtn Rifle and my elk gun is a full stock hawken style rifle in .54. They have good locks on them and are pretty quick for a flint. The hawken is going with me next week to the Bumping Unit when I try to fill my any bull tag. My partners shoot inlines with sabots. That's OK but i've never felt under gunned with the round ball. Elk and deer have never gone even 100 yards after taking one in the chest. I was heavy into the history and rendezvous shoots for years but haven't done any in a while.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: C-Money on September 24, 2012, 07:33:44 AM: Very nice rifle RG!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: jcswamp on September 24, 2012, 10:02:28 AM: I hunt using a knight bighorn with .50 cal round ball and patch, i actually prefer the grouping i get with the round ball over sabots. To each their own i guess. Two more weeks till elk season!!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on September 24, 2012, 11:18:16 AM: My best muzzleloader buck was a 4X4 blacktail with a whitetail shaped rack from west of Medford, OR. 80 yard shot, punched through both lungs, and dropped w/in 30 yards. Patched roundball did the trick.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: magnanimous_j on September 24, 2012, 02:06:25 PM: I would love to get into muzzleloaders. I like the historical facet to them. In choosing one, how much less reliable are flintlocks than caps?

Here is the rifle I'm looking at, it's available in both.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 24, 2012, 06:21:51 PM: A "good" flintlock, strong mainspring, hardened frizzen, is pretty reliable. A not so good one is best used as a club. All flintlocks present a host of problems not experienced with caplocks. I love using them but there have been times.... I haven't missed an animal because of the lock but I did miss an animal once because I flinched during the delay between flint strike and ignition. ( A 5 point bull) The problem hasn't struck since then but I shoot a lot to stay familiar with it. It's sort of like shooting traditional bows, you have to be willing to put up with the handicap in order to get the sense of satisfaction that comes with being successful with it. It's not for everyone, nor should it be, but it can be fun.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: KLRKeith on September 24, 2012, 11:53:58 PM: Musketman check out some of the years previous' post. I'm 3 for 3 with patched round ball and Mule deer. I have two Lyman great plains rifles a flinter and percussion both in .54 and both shooting patched round ball. 75-100 yards are the best I can shoot at but that's due to my eyesight and iron sights. Either way it's a very effective combo. I agree; probably more deer have been killed with the patched round ball than any other firearm projecticle out there.
BTW nice flintlocks in the thread. One day I would like to go the custom route.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 25, 2012, 06:20:31 AM: I think it's interesting, and amusing, that there are gun writers, Toby Bridges for one, who write rubbish that makes it sound like a patched round ball isn't effective on anything bigger than a rabbit. Having been in the sporting goods business for a period of years I know that he is influenced by the manufacturers of certain firearms but it's still pretty sad because he's caused a lot of people to never try traditional guns for hunting. I guess it's messier, and there are a few more steps in the loading process compared to pushing a sabot round down the barrel, but patched round balls were there when muzzleloaders were invented. For several hundred years people used them to feed and defend their families. I saw a video of an Alaskan grizzly being taken with a .54 round ball and 100 grains of 3fff black powder. He ran 60 yards and crashed. It's a lot like powder choice too. I shoot 3fff goex black powder because it works really well in my guns. My son in law hunts with me and uses a Knight Bighorn with triple 7. He has no interest in putting up with the bother of using my gun and I'm not interested in hunting with his gun. That's OK, both guns are equal in terms of their effectiveness and we are both happy with our choice. That's what's important because there are those who would try to get us to argue about which is more correct or a better weapon.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: dvolmer on September 25, 2012, 11:40:26 AM: This is a tough one. I think if you practice and spend the time needed with a roundball you should be fine if you know your limitations and performance of your gun and ammo. A couple of years ago the WDFG lifted the restrictions on jacketed bullets. this was due to the only difference in them is the killing power of the bullet. they shot the same distance and accuracy of the conical bullets that were lead only but held together better once they entered the animal. So in theory they didn't give the hunter any more advantage at all but just gave the animal a better chance of dieing humanely. The thought process was that the same amount of animals would be hit and die but hunter success would be better with more animals recovered and less lost and not found to die a slow death and be wasted. I need to note here that i am not talking about sabot loads at all in my above thoughts.

With that being said, I don't see why a hunter wouldn't use a conical copper jacketed bullet (like on made by Powerbelt or equivalent) even out of their old style flint locks. It just gives the game a better chance of being killed quickly and humanely without making the experience be much different from our ancestors. now I know I will get a lot of people telling me there quick kills with round balls and I am sure there is alot of them but they all would have died with the conical bullet also and the other stories that will never be shared here by others might have been avoided.

My hope is that the guys that hunt with these older rifles and want to use roundballs consider what they are using and adjust there max distance and things to the limits of the gun. It seems the guys on this thread do that and my hand is out to you all because you are using something that shares our history and you seem to be doing it the right way.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 25, 2012, 10:06:46 PM: dvolmer, I appreciate your concern. For a little insight, the gun barrel is built to handle the type of projectile that will be used in it. Patched round ball barrels are built with a 1 turn in 66 inch or even 72 inch twist. This stabilizes the ball and doesn't tear the patch. My guns have green mountain custom barrels on them and will shoot very tight groups, at 50 yards all the holes are connected and probably would be at 100 too if I could shoot the iron sights that well any more with my aging eyesight. Conical bullets have traditionally been designed to shoot out of barrels with a 1 turn in 48 inch twist or faster. The Knight and other barrels which are designed to shoot sabots typically have approximately 1 turn in 27 inch twist. I've seen guys shooting round balls out of the fast twist barrels and sometimes you can do that. I'm not sure what would happen if you shot a sabot out of a slow barrel. My guns are traditional and I shoot traditional ammo, including loading from a powder horn and powder measure for each shot. I patch the round ball with linen and a special barrel lube. I shoot actual black powder too. I do all this because that's what I like to do. I shot through a bull elk side to side through the lungs with a 220 grain .54 round ball, he died within 40 yards. I also killed a mule deer buck in Utah at 135 yards, one shot, with the same size round ball. I've killed other elk and muleys, all of which expired quickly. The round balls are made from pure lead, no alloy, because they won't "upset" and seal the rifling at ignition otherwise. They expand very well and don't break up at all. It's an effective method to hunt, the problem is that people who have been raised on magnum rifles and all kinds of fancy bullets can't wrap their mind around how these primitive guns could ever get the job done. As a person who has used patched round balls for 32+ years and never lost an animal, I can assure you that, when used within their limitations, and that's critical with any weapon, they get it done just fine. I have modern rifles too and, in fact, I have a modern rifle deer tag this year and will be using a .280 Rem. with Nosler Accubond bullets, so I'm not anti anything, I use it all.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Dan-o on September 25, 2012, 10:14:58 PM: I shoot 400 grain Hard Cast Lead Harvesters (saboted) when I hunt with my muzzleloader.

I don't oppose round balls, but something tells me if Daniel Boone could choose, he'd be out there on the frontier with is trusty TC Black Diamond XR shooting saboted Harvesters. 8)
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 25, 2012, 10:16:09 PM: If Daniel Boone had a choice he would have used a .300 Weatherby or something like that probably.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Dan-o on September 25, 2012, 10:19:36 PM: Quote from: RG on September 25, 2012, 10:16:09 PM
If Daniel Boone had a choice he would have used a .300 Weatherby or something like that probably.

Na. He'd have had the good sense to know that Modern firearm season is too crowdwd. :tup:
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on September 25, 2012, 10:26:56 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on September 25, 2012, 10:43:44 PM: RG is right on about the barrel rifling twist rate for patched ball vs. conical slug. Most new muzzle loader manufacturers now list what the twist rate is in their guns, depending on what you want to shoot. Some even offer both options. My .54 Hawken Carbine is in the faster twist for heavy hunting slugs, and I hunt with the T/C Maxi-Hunter conicals. The gun seems to shoot a patched ball accurately, too, and they are much more enjoyable to shoot than the big chunks of lead! 3 or 4 shots with the Maxi-Hunters, and I feel like I went a few rounds with Mike Tyson.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: dvolmer on September 27, 2012, 07:55:07 AM: RG i can tell you are a true Sportsman and Woodsman. Keep the roundballs coming and i can tell you have spent the time and have the knowledge to keep the ways of our Grandfathers not a thing of the past. Great information on this thread. I doubt I will ever go as traditional as you guys have due to time restraints in my life and all of my other interests but you never know. i plan on retiring in 7 to 10 years and maybe an old flintlock will be in the plans. Good shooting and happy hunting!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: MuzzyHunter28 on September 28, 2012, 11:18:51 AM: Custom Built Virginia Long Rifle, Built by Mike Keller (Father) Left handed 54. Flintlock. 295Gr Ball, Surrounded By .15 thousandths Pillow Ticking being bushed by 80 Grains of FFF. 3" Groups at 65 Yrds. Killed 4x4 Muley in 2010 at 80 yrds. Left a exit wound size of a Apple. Fun as Hell to shoot and Keeping things Traditional!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Serious Redneck on September 28, 2012, 11:29:00 AM: I got a TC .54 Renegade and have shot maxi balls and PRBs out if it, same accuracy out of both for the most part. First deer I ever shot was with it at 60 yds with a PRB. And I have taken 2 elk with it using both projectiles, Both were heart shots and a few steps then down. And both were less than 15 yards away too, making the shots easy! I want to get a .58 GM RB barrel for it just to shoot that big ol round ball and see what it will do.

Happy day to ya.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 04:50:20 AM: I am afraid that I have to agree with Musketman. Kudos to you Musketman for not having fallen into the newer inline craze that is currently proliferating black powder hunting today. Don't get me wrong - I fully understand that today's in-line's provide better long range performance, ballistics, etc. that the Ole patched round ball shot from the Hawken's or Mountain Rifle's. However, I am a hopeless romantic of an era where Mountain men prevailed and relied and lived by their mountain rifle alone...

I own and choose to hunt with a Lyman .54 cal Great Plains rifle and love it - while my buddies all shooting in-lines. We respect each others choice of weapons. However - for me - I feel that if I am going to hunt with a inline, scope, etc. I may as well just hunt with my rifle or shotgun honestly. Not much difference really since I have always pretty-much been a 'one shot' kill hunter no matter WHAT I hunt with. So I don't see myself handicapped using my Great Plains rifle....however, to each is own - and I respect that. There is something about the Ole lure of shooting a patched round ball from my rifle that does it for ME - not as efficient theoretically as a sabot perhaps - but has worked for years for the 1800 era of mountain men and certainly works for me as well. While it IS nice to have a scope on my rifles due to my now aging eyes - there is just something about carrying that leather possibles bag and that heavy octagon barrelled rifle in my hands - doing things - the way it used to be....

I'm not sure where the current trend is going to go these days with muzzleloaders still - the only thing that seems to be lacking is the brass case at this point - and if I am going to drop $500+ for a rifle like that - it may as well be a .30-.06 I feel. Just not my cup of tea....

But as I said - "To each is own" and I respect that - that today more-than-ever, hunters need to come together and respected each others differences and choices of weapons, style, etc. as the anti's are out there to get all of us yet...
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 05:00:29 AM: This is my Lyman Great Plains rifle. I love it, in a .54 percussion.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Lcl 66 Tinner on November 17, 2012, 04:43:18 PM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 05:00:29 AM
This is my Lyman Great Plains rifle. I love it, in a .54 percussion.
Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 04:50:20 AM
I am afraid that I have to agree with Musketman. Kudos to you Musketman for not having fallen into the newer inline craze that is currently proliferating black powder hunting today. Don't get me wrong - I fully understand that today's in-line's provide better long range performance, ballistics, etc. that the Ole patched round ball shot from the Hawken's or Mountain Rifle's. However, I am a hopeless romantic of an era where Mountain men prevailed and relied and lived by their mountain rifle alone...

I own and choose to hunt with a Lyman .54 cal Great Plains rifle and love it - while my buddies all shooting in-lines. We respect each others choice of weapons. However - for me - I feel that if I am going to hunt with a inline, scope, etc. I may as well just hunt with my rifle or shotgun honestly. Not much difference really since I have always pretty-much been a 'one shot' kill hunter no matter WHAT I hunt with. So I don't see myself handicapped using my Great Plains rifle....however, to each is own - and I respect that. There is something about the Ole lure of shooting a patched round ball from my rifle that does it for ME - not as efficient theoretically as a sabot perhaps - but has worked for years for the 1800 era of mountain men and certainly works for me as well. While it IS nice to have a scope on my rifles due to my now aging eyes - there is just something about carrying that leather possibles bag and that heavy octagon barrelled rifle in my hands - doing things - the way it used to be....

I'm not sure where the current trend is going to go these days with muzzleloaders still - the only thing that seems to be lacking is the brass case at this point - and if I am going to drop $500+ for a rifle like that - it may as well be a .30-.06 I feel. Just not my cup of tea....

But as I said - "To each is own" and I respect that - that today more-than-ever, hunters need to come together and respected each others differences and choices of weapons, style, etc. as the anti's are out there to get all of us yet...

I have the same rifle and love it also, I think the modern muzzles should be part of the modern hunt though. I do agree with you that we need to stick together as a whole. Muzzleloader season is supposed to be a primitive hunt and i think the modern muzzies are taking that away.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: dscubame on November 17, 2012, 04:46:19 PM: Many years ago I would hunt patch and ball a great deal. The round ball tumbling through the air reaks havic on the deer. The Palouse muzzy any deer season back in the early 90's was a good season with great memories.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 05:45:49 PM: [/quote]I have the same rifle and love it also, I think the modern muzzles should be part of the modern hunt though. I do agree with you that we need to stick together as a whole. Muzzleloader season is supposed to be a primitive hunt and i think the modern muzzies are taking that away.
[/quote]

I agree honestly. No offense to those that choose to hunt with the in-lines, but I don't feel they are primitive rifles per se. Yeah, they take black power or imitation black powder, only fire one shot, are loaded thru the muzzle and ignition is via a cap (or shotshell primer now or a 209 muzzleloader primer) - but to me - if you're gonna hunt with one of them, a scope, a sabot - then you may as well be out with the shotgun or a high powered rifle!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on November 17, 2012, 07:07:32 PM: I had the any bull blackpowder tag in Goose Prairie this year. I shot a 5 point bull from 70 yards with the flintlock, .54 round ball, and 90 grains fffg goex black powder. It broke his lower right front leg since he was walking, went through and punched a hole in his heart. He took 5 steps, tipped over, and rolled down the hill. No sabot with fancy copper coated whiz bang bullet could have done it any better. My son in law and my other hunting partner use the fancy bullets but I'm too traditional.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 08:42:16 PM: Wow! That's serious big game medicine!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on November 18, 2012, 06:52:34 AM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 17, 2012, 05:00:29 AM
This is my Lyman Great Plains rifle. I love it, in a .54 percussion.

The Great Plains Rifles are good guns, I have one of those too. During a past life, when I had a sporting goods store, I used to build the kits and customize a few things like browning the barrel and steel, polishing the internals in the lock, oiling the wood with different oils, etc. and then just sell them for the price of an off the shelf GPR. There used to be a gun on the market that was made by Allen arms and then they sold it to another company which I can't recall the name of. They called it a Santa Fe Hawken. It was actually a true .52 caliber in its orginal version. It was a really nice gun but I don't think it's still around. It was styled after an original Hawken taken out of a museum. You can also by a gun from the "Hawken Shop" in St. Louis which is a replica of an original gun. These are super expensive but the Great Plains Rifle is a pretty close reproduction of these guns. I think it has a 7/8 inch barrel and they had 1 inch and it has a coil spring inside the lock, but otherwise it's pretty similar. The story is, once you get a nose full of real black powder smoke, there's no going back. That smoke makes the meat more tender and flavorful too.... and I'm sticking with that story.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 18, 2012, 06:58:20 AM: LOL. Yeah I would love to have my Great Plains rifle have browned metal parts versus blued for a truly authentic look!
I had also been seeking a Johnathan Browning Mountain rifle as well - but had no luck in finding any!
But the Lyman's are really nice as well! That darn rifle cost me $100 MORE than my modern Savage 111 and 212's did!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: Serious Redneck on November 21, 2012, 11:25:15 PM: I like PRBs, first deer I ever shot as with a TC Renegade .54 with a PRB. 50 yds through the heart. Ran a bit then dropped. Nice western Washington blacktail doe. Last year I got a 4 point bull at about 20 yds with the same rifle and a hand cast .527 PRB, center punched the heart and it started staggering that moment. Good thing my two sons were bout 100 yards away, cause the real work started then. The ball went through and through on that bull (I wanted to recover it and keep it as a souvenir). I am impressed with them and full bore sized conicals too. Bigger holes bring them down faster (still gotta have good shot placement). I too would prefer the muzzy season to be brought back to traditional sidelock guns with PRBs.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 12:33:08 AM: Serious Redneck,
That's awesome! I am looking forward to trying to take a Eastern Whitetail here in my state - New York - this hunting season.
Our MZ season starts Dec 10 - 18th, but honestly I may just go out with my Great Plains Rifle before then. While my Savage 212 in 12 gauge with the 3x9 x 50mm is an amazing shotgun - the romantic lure of taking a whitetail with my .54 tugs at me even more!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 12:35:17 AM: RG - I love that picture! Def looking like it could be one hell of an ad for a firearms manufacturer! Great job!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:23:39 AM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 18, 2012, 06:58:20 AM
LOL. Yeah I would love to have my Great Plains rifle have browned metal parts versus blued for a truly authentic look!
I had also been seeking a Johnathan Browning Mountain rifle as well - but had no luck in finding any!
But the Lyman's are really nice as well! That darn rifle cost me $100 MORE than my modern Savage 111 and 212's did!

You can remove your blueing and do a plum brown on it. Pretty easy to do and the results look nice. Just need a torch and some cotton rags.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:25:43 AM: You can remove your bluing and do a plum brown on it. Pretty easy to do and the results look nice. Just need a torch and some cotton rags.
[/quote]

What's it involved? Having to steel wool the entire barrel?
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:29:58 AM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:25:43 AM
You can remove your bluing and do a plum brown on it. Pretty easy to do and the results look nice. Just need a torch and some cotton rags.

What's it involved? Having to steel wool the entire barrel?
[/quote]

I think Birchwood Casey makes a blue remover that you just apply and wipe down. A light steel wooling or whatever the directions are and then you heat the barrel until the browning liquid sizzles on it. I stuck a spike into a board which held my barrel in an upright position. I think it gets a light steel wooling between coats which darkens it each time and evens out the color. I'll post a pic of one of my barrels in a minute.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:32:47 AM: OK, thanks. Prob would be a PITA getting the bluing off in the corner of the sights, etc - or I'd have to remove the blued sights and do them as well separately, etc.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:42:23 AM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:32:47 AM
OK, thanks. Prob would be a PITA getting the bluing off in the corner of the sights, etc - or I'd have to remove the blued sights and do them as well separately, etc.

I pulled the sights off before doing it. Can't find my dang camera....
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:44:38 AM: OK thanks,
That's OK. MY buddy has a Cabela's Hawken that he made from a kit and he browned his barrel. His came out nice....I don't know tho if I want to really go thru all that just to have a browned barrel now! LOL. Prob is a real PITA to do. I once tried to blue a barrel making a Navy Arms .58 cal Hawken once and what a PITA is was to get that barrel to take that bluing!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:49:51 AM: Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
OK thanks,
That's OK. MY buddy has a Cabela's Hawken that he made from a kit and he browned his barrel. His came out nice....I don't know tho if I want to really go thru all that just to have a browned barrel now! LOL. Prob is a real PITA to do. I once tried to blue a barrel making a Navy Arms .58 cal Hawken once and what a PITA is was to get that barrel to take that bluing!

I've tried bluing blue as well, but never with it hot. The blue stuff seems to be done cold and doesn't turn out as well for me. The plum is just an amazing finish and pretty durable as I'm not the most conscientious gun cleaner sometimes. The other thing is that if there are aluminum parts, they can be blued to match (diff chemicals) but I don't think they make a plum for aluminum.

Photos added, sorry if I'm thread-jacking. In the first pic, the top barrel had a wedge installed in the sight dovetail and was then sanded with a belt sander, it blended very well. I think the lower barrel may have had an extra coat or two done to it.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:58:41 AM: Yeah I think back then (some 25+ yrs ago) I used a hot blue treatment. Came out OK but certainly not as nice as a factory blue.

But I def like the 'authentic' look of the brown finish. Funny thing IS - my Lyman Great Plains Rifle has a browned butt stock, forearm end cap and trigger and trigger guard! Go figure!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: MagKarl on November 22, 2012, 10:06:21 AM: I also shoot a .54 GPR that I built from a kit. I love it, but my next will be a flintlock of some flavor when I get the time.

Another good browning option is made by Laural Mtn. Forge. It's a cold process, very easy to work with and you can go either brown or rust blue. I rust blued the metal on my GPR.
http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown.htm (http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown.htm)
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 10:11:13 AM: Thanks bro! I'll check it out! Off to the family now for our Thanksgiving dinner!
Happy Thanksgiving all!

Please keep those in mind today that have passed, can no longer be with us, our US Military, and those homeless and not as fortunate - even our animals in shelters and homeless animals as well!

If you see a stray animal do God's work and feed the poor thing!

Thanks all!
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on November 22, 2012, 11:02:20 AM: Quote from: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:23:39 AM
Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 18, 2012, 06:58:20 AM
LOL. Yeah I would love to have my Great Plains rifle have browned metal parts versus blued for a truly authentic look!
I had also been seeking a Johnathan Browning Mountain rifle as well - but had no luck in finding any!
But the Lyman's are really nice as well! That darn rifle cost me $100 MORE than my modern Savage 111 and 212's did!

You can remove your blueing and do a plum brown on it. Pretty easy to do and the results look nice. Just need a torch and some cotton rags.

If you decide to brown it, go to Track of the Wolf's website and find a cold brown solution and do it that way. It takes a couple weeks but it lasts for years. The plum brown doesn't last nearly as long. I've built about 2 dozen +- muzzleloaders over the years and learned this from experience. My two hunting rifles I currently use were built in 1990 and 91 and have been carried a lot in the woods. The wood needs to be refinished where I hold them but the brown is still in great shape. Plum brown would have been worn off several times by now.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on November 22, 2012, 11:03:47 AM: Quote from: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
OK thanks,
That's OK. MY buddy has a Cabela's Hawken that he made from a kit and he browned his barrel. His came out nice....I don't know tho if I want to really go thru all that just to have a browned barrel now! LOL. Prob is a real PITA to do. I once tried to blue a barrel making a Navy Arms .58 cal Hawken once and what a PITA is was to get that barrel to take that bluing!

I've tried bluing blue as well, but never with it hot. The blue stuff seems to be done cold and doesn't turn out as well for me. The plum is just an amazing finish and pretty durable as I'm not the most conscientious gun cleaner sometimes. The other thing is that if there are aluminum parts, they can be blued to match (diff chemicals) but I don't think they make a plum for aluminum.

Photos added, sorry if I'm thread-jacking. In the first pic, the top barrel had a wedge installed in the sight dovetail and was then sanded with a belt sander, it blended very well. I think the lower barrel may have had an extra coat or two done to it.

The photos look good, maybe they improved their product since I used it in the 80's :).
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 12:15:05 PM: Quote from: RG on November 22, 2012, 11:03:47 AM
Quote from: lokidog on November 22, 2012, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: ACLSRN50 on November 22, 2012, 09:44:38 AM
OK thanks,
That's OK. MY buddy has a Cabela's Hawken that he made from a kit and he browned his barrel. His came out nice....I don't know tho if I want to really go thru all that just to have a browned barrel now! LOL. Prob is a real PITA to do. I once tried to blue a barrel making a Navy Arms .58 cal Hawken once and what a PITA is was to get that barrel to take that bluing!

I've tried bluing blue as well, but never with it hot. The blue stuff seems to be done cold and doesn't turn out as well for me. The plum is just an amazing finish and pretty durable as I'm not the most conscientious gun cleaner sometimes. The other thing is that if there are aluminum parts, they can be blued to match (diff chemicals) but I don't think they make a plum for aluminum.

Photos added, sorry if I'm thread-jacking. In the first pic, the top barrel had a wedge installed in the sight dovetail and was then sanded with a belt sander, it blended very well. I think the lower barrel may have had an extra coat or two done to it.

The photos look good, maybe they improved their product since I used it in the 80's :).

These were both done 10 years ago, but I have a double barrel shotgun that I did in the 80's, and other than the rust caused by me forgetting to clean it last time I used it, the brown is still in good shape. I think the heated finishes stick better than the cold ones.

I had an older gentleman, probably in his 80's, that saw the double one time in the field and asked if it was my great grandfather's, I thought that was a great compliment.
Title: Re: Patched Round Ball Shooters Out There?
Post by: RG on November 22, 2012, 03:00:14 PM: It is quicker. The cold finishes require you to rewet it daily for weeks until the rust finish gets really deep. Usually your hands turn orange and cracked by the time you finish because it keeps getting on you. I like the end result though.