Post by: tmtimestwo on September 07, 2012, 06:48:54 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on September 07, 2012, 07:06:28 AM
Post by: newbie76 on September 07, 2012, 07:07:01 AM
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Bob33 on September 07, 2012, 07:28:11 AM
Our classes typically have a higher ratio of young students that the one you referenced. We often have several students under 12, and some classes we've had four under age ten. Some of these students do exceptionally well: better than adults in some instances. They are attentive and eager to learn. If they are too small to safely handle firearms, that's an issue.
The state mandates the curriculum, but every one of our instructors feels very strongly about ethical hunting and sportsmanship, and we do emphasize it throughout the course.
Ethics is somewhat of a delicate subject because one person's ethics may not match another's. The classic example is often shooting a duck on the water. It's legal, but is it ethical? Most would say not, but what if the duck is crippled? Do you tell students to never shoot a duck on the water? Is baiting a deer ethical? Should I tell you or your children never to do it? I'm sure some instructors would say that using a GPS and a laser rangefinder is not ethical. Some would say that shooting a deer at more than 300 yards is not ethical. Where do you draw the line, so that every instructor provides a consistent message?
Yes, the primary emphasis is firearm safety. Having a hunter shoot someone has severe consequencs, not only for the shooter and the victim, but every hunter. The story of the Washington bear hunter that shot and killed the hiker a few years back because he mistook her for a bear has echoed around the world, and nearly resulted in shutting down a month of bear season.
It's important to remember that the hunter education program in Washington is not designed to teach everything there is to know about hunting. The program would be far too long. There is some thought being given to offering some courses / training beyond the basic program. Several states are doing that.
I do hope that you find a course that your daughter enjoys. If she were in my area (King County) I'd encourage you to enroll her in one of our courses.
Best of luck to you and your daughter.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 07, 2012, 07:56:33 AM
The mandated gun safety is a croc anymore, all you're doing is checking the box. There are some instructors who are downright passionate, and some who are just there to be there. My wife took a class at the bow range in Enumclaw and it was great for her. My neighbors kids took a class elsewhere - it was a terrible experience. The state has watered it down horribly and it's almost 100% on the instructor to make it interesting and relevant.
In the end though.... It's on YOU to teach your daughter safety and on YOU to teach her good stewardship.
Because of your concern, we all know she's going to turn to be a great hunter :)
Post by: CP on September 07, 2012, 08:04:47 AM
It is up to you as the parent to fill in what you perceive as the gaps in the formal education. Formal Hunter’s ed can only address the very basics and should be a supplement to a much broader education instilled by the parent.
Post by: snowshoes22 on September 07, 2012, 08:07:51 AM
Post by: longashes on September 07, 2012, 08:11:00 AM
Although I can appreciate the state mandating HS, they're the last place I would want or trust my children's ultimate hunting safety to ... That's what I'm for! :hello:
Post by: tmtimestwo on September 07, 2012, 08:35:33 AM
Post by: newbie76 on September 10, 2012, 04:31:47 PM
appreciate all the feedback folks. I would tend to agree with most of your statements and trust me hunters safety is just a check in the block, eithics and fair chase and conservation will be learned in the field and at home with a great group of family mentors. I would definately agree on that. I just feel that a large part of our heritage, tradition and way of life is falling to the wayside due to the *censored* that screws it up for everyone and think that this would be and has been in the past the place to emphasise conservation, the reason for hunting and the respect that must be had for not just human life but taking the life of an animal. I do not believe in calling it a sport as it is not something you win or lose but something learned, lived and shared as being part of this world and part of nature as an animal ourselves. Again thank you and can only hope that those who take this class and do not have mentors to learn the fine points get what they need to keep the tradition alive. I guess I just keep reliving the post about the guy that lost his deer this year and reguardless of the scenario or others oppinions I beleive that he did the right thing in putting in that effort to find it and would only hope that others would do the same for those who don't are bound to do far worse than just walk away from a wonded animal and let it go to waste without giving it the respect and effort something like that deserves. I want to preserve this heritage to it's fullest.
Well said!!!!
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: deerhunterdes13 on September 10, 2012, 05:19:24 PM
Post by: dfresh96 on September 10, 2012, 05:51:06 PM
they also like to see 100% scores and give you every chance to achieve it no matter the age....
also remember when a hunting incident occurs it does go back on the instructor if they took hunter safety...
i just feel there are far more important things to worry about as a hunter than a free safety class....
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 10, 2012, 06:33:20 PM
Post by: hrd2fnd on September 10, 2012, 06:42:22 PM
I think hunters ed is a croc. Have the parents teach their kids and give them a pass or fail. Geeze, you can home school your kids, so whay not be able to home school them on hunters ed ? When our State Patrolman showed up here 10 years ago I asked him if he hunted, he said, "no I have to take the hunters ed course". But he can arrest you, he can shoot you, but he can't hunt.............STUPID !!!:yeah:
Post by: KFhunter on September 10, 2012, 06:45:51 PM
Funny part he was armed the whole week, in the school lunchroom where we took the class.
Seems so stupid to have to waste this guys time with hunters safety.
Same with LE having to get CWP to buy a handgun or wait 5 days, I've seen armed LE with a duty gun on their hip not allowed to buy a handgun and walk out with it :chuckle:
Post by: Da goat on September 11, 2012, 02:14:05 AM
Post by: Deep Forks on September 11, 2012, 02:58:38 AM
I'm an instructor; this is my perspective.:yeah: Very well said. :tup:
Our classes typically have a higher ratio of young students that the one you referenced. We often have several students under 12, and some classes we've had four under age ten. Some of these students do exceptionally well: better than adults in some instances. They are attentive and eager to learn. If they are too small to safely handle firearms, that's an issue.
The state mandates the curriculum, but every one of our instructors feels very strongly about ethical hunting and sportsmanship, and we do emphasize it throughout the course.
Ethics is somewhat of a delicate subject because one person's ethics may not match another's. The classic example is often shooting a duck on the water. It's legal, but is it ethical? Most would say not, but what if the duck is crippled? Do you tell students to never shoot a duck on the water? Is baiting a deer ethical? Should I tell you or your children never to do it? I'm sure some instructors would say that using a GPS and a laser rangefinder is not ethical. Some would say that shooting a deer at more than 300 yards is not ethical. Where do you draw the line, so that every instructor provides a consistent message?
Yes, the primary emphasis is firearm safety. Having a hunter shoot someone has severe consequencs, not only for the shooter and the victim, but every hunter. The story of the Washington bear hunter that shot and killed the hiker a few years back because he mistook her for a bear has echoed around the world, and nearly resulted in shutting down a month of bear season.
It's important to remember that the hunter education program in Washington is not designed to teach everything there is to know about hunting. The program would be far too long. There is some thought being given to offering some courses / training beyond the basic program. Several states are doing that.
I do hope that you find a course that your daughter enjoys. If she were in my area (King County) I'd encourage you to enroll her in one of our courses.
Best of luck to you and your daughter.
Post by: PA BEN on September 11, 2012, 04:52:40 AM
Your attitude toward the class will pass to your kid. I have 5 daughters; all went through the class at age 9. It’s a hoop you jump through to hunt in Washington. You will take over while out hunting. Trust me your kids will keep you in line when you bend a rule while out hunting.
Post by: jtw on September 11, 2012, 07:48:12 AM
Post by: Wazukie on September 11, 2012, 08:05:30 AM
Post by: quadrafire on September 11, 2012, 08:28:01 AM
“Attitude is reflection of leadership.”:yeah:
Your attitude toward the class will pass to your kid. I have 5 daughters; all went through the class at age 9. It’s a hoop you jump through to hunt in Washington. You will take over while out hunting. Trust me your kids will keep you in line when you bend a rule while out hunting.
My 12 yr old daughter just finished up the class about 2 wks ago. We have been out grouse hunting and it is so nice to have her along.
Her class ranged from 9-55 yrs of age. When my son took it 2 yrs ago it ranged from 9-75yrs. The younger kids seemed to do better than the older on the testing portion, but if they are small they seemed to struggle with the gun handling portion, but at least they learned it whether they will use that particular firearm or not.
I don't see any reason to have classes divided by age.
Post by: ctwiggs1 on September 11, 2012, 09:07:29 AM
we had a long time deputy in the class when I took my boy through - he kept quite and didn't talk a whole lot, did his test and checked the box off.
Funny part he was armed the whole week, in the school lunchroom where we took the class.
Seems so stupid to have to waste this guys time with hunters safety.
Same with LE having to get CWP to buy a handgun or wait 5 days, I've seen armed LE with a duty gun on their hip not allowed to buy a handgun and walk out with it :chuckle:
Yeah, a buddy of mine got home from Iraq and wanted to go deer hunting.... NOT! Had to go through hunter safety first. Really? AN INFANTRYMAN?!
Love this state sometimes.
Post by: 10thmountainarcher on September 11, 2012, 09:32:02 AM
Post by: sebek556 on September 11, 2012, 10:02:27 AM
Post by: newbie76 on September 11, 2012, 10:19:04 AM
I think hunters ed is a croc. Have the parents teach their kids and give them a pass or fail. Geeze, you can home school your kids, so whay not be able to home school them on hunters ed ? When our State Patrolman showed up here 10 years ago I asked him if he hunted, he said, "no I have to take the hunters ed course". But he can arrest you, he can shoot you, but he can't hunt.............STUPID !!!
Yea but he did take many many hours atbthe basic patrol academy.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 12, 2012, 05:54:10 PM
I think hunters ed is a croc. Have the parents teach their kids and give them a pass or fail. Geeze, you can home school your kids, so whay not be able to home school them on hunters ed ? When our State Patrolman showed up here 10 years ago I asked him if he hunted, he said, "no I have to take the hunters ed course". But he can arrest you, he can shoot you, but he can't hunt.............STUPID !!!
Yea but he did take many many hours atbthe basic patrol academy.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
I think I understood your post. All LE should be exempt from stupidity.
Post by: NBhunter on September 13, 2012, 12:00:51 AM
My :twocents:
It is up to you as the parent to fill in what you perceive as the gaps in the formal education. Formal Hunter’s ed can only address the very basics and should be a supplement to a much broader education instilled by the parent.
:yeah:
Post by: follow maggie on September 13, 2012, 09:35:21 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 13, 2012, 09:54:35 PM