Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Elkfever on September 10, 2012, 05:04:54 PM
-
I am close to buying the Tikka T3 Lite 300 win mag, stainless steel/synthetic stock. I have been doing a lot of research on this rifle and seems to be the best bang for the buck for what I want/need. This is my first rifle that I will have bought. My grandpa's 30-06 pump action has done well for me filling deer/elk tags but with an eastern oregon elk hunt coming up, I want more fire power to reach beyond 200 yards effectively. This will be my go-to rifle for years to come I am hoping. I have seen the other posts on here but am needing a little confidence boost to "add to cart." :) Accuracy out to 300-400 yards? I hear the recoil on the 300 can be stiff but with an aftermarket recoil pad does wonders- can you confirm this? I finally held the gun in my hand at the store today and loved the weight, balance and bolt action smoothness as well as the price. The stock seemed very "plasticy" but I can get over that as long as it wont scratch and holds up to hard use. Any first hand knowledge would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
-
I think you'll find recoil on the unpleasant side of the scale. If you're intent on a .30 caliber magnum you might want to shift your focus to the 300 WSM; the recoil should be a bit less.
-
Have the same exact gun, And cannot say a single bad thing about it! I will own this gun until the day I die. The recoil is not bad at all, I can shoot it all day long and not be to sore. the first buck I killed with the gun was at 550 yards and hit true and he went 40 yards and piled up dead. The bolt is simply awesome you barely lift it up and the whole bolt slides back. You can really send the rounds down range with this gun.
I would never think twise about buying the same gun again, and I personally love the 300, flat shooter and packes one hell of a knock down.
Go for it you will not regret it :tup:
-
I can attest to the tika T3 300 wsm as being a tack driving light weight rifle. And when you add a Sims recoil pad it is a *censored* cat to shoot. It should also fit all your needs without question.
-
300 wsm in the same setup. promise you will love it. Light, doesn't kick with a recoil pad, and will kill an elk as far away as you would want to shoot one.
-
I bought a Tikka 300 WSM a couple months ago. First one in that brand, nice, light gun. I put a 3x9x40 Leupold on it. Seems like a good rig even though some don't like them. I do.
-
I have not shot either the 300 wm or 300 wsm. Biggest caliber is my 30-06, a pretty lightweight rifle with an 18" barrel. But I have nothing to compare recoil to. I'm trying to read up on the answer to my question but to you guys, why does the wsm recoil less than the win mag? Newbie to rifles/ammo, I know. :)
Thanks for the help so far, I appreciate it.
-
I have not shot either the 300 wm or 300 wsm. Biggest caliber is my 30-06, a pretty lightweight rifle with an 18" barrel. But I have nothing to compare recoil to. I'm trying to read up on the answer to my question but to you guys, why does the wsm recoil less than the win mag? Newbie to rifles/ammo, I know. :)
Thanks for the help so far, I appreciate it.
Powder capacity and bullet weight.
-
I'm going to have to agree with others on the wsm. My boy has been shooting one since he was 12 and loves it. No recoil pad either.
-
I have the same rifle but in .308 super light and super accurate. Pared with my 3-9x40 leupold its awesome.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
-
Ok, what bullet are you guys putting through your 300 wsm for elk? I currently shoot Federal Premium 180 grain nosler partition in my 30-06 for both deer and elk. It has done well for me but I'd like to know what has worked with that particular rifle and caliber.
-
I bought Winchester 150 grn Ballistic Silvertip for my 300 WSM. I wouldn't hesitate to use them on elk. Some might say the wouldn't, but I don't go by what others say.
-
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fnudeaski.info%2Fimg.php%3Ffl%3Da4y516i43334n2t4r4q4n244p4f4s4f4a4k4p5y5n274t5u5w2u4w554k4l5v5j5w5u2x5e4y5p4q2u5143454q2t244t2w2s20304r2t2a4l484&hash=206116cd17b93eb506eaa9ad6b1c387247df1b68)
-
With my 300 Wm, I shoot federal 180 grain power shok I believe.its the blue package with the whitetail buck in the fog on the cover if that helps. And the wsm is just a smaller casing with less powder and a bigger price tag I believe.
-
Tikkas notoriously love Barnes TSX in 180.
-
Winchester XP3 in 180 grain. Elk last year didn't take a step. Blew up the heart and shattered the exit leg.
-
Tikka T3 Lite Stainless 300 WSM-168gr Sierra Berger VLD's for hunting. 3 elk, 1 deer at 600yds, and 1 bear. You'll like it. Light weight and with the Simms recoil pad on it the kick isn't bad at all. I have been scoped a couple of times in the heat of the moment but that's my bad! Doh!!!
-
I shoot 165 grain TSX bullets in my 300 WSM. There is absolutely no need to go heavier, and in fact a 150 grain TSX or equivalent monolithic bullet should do just fine on elk or smaller sized game. The recoil of lighter bullets is less.
-
Great info guys, thank you. Anyone else have :twocents: on the 300 wm or wsm? It sounds pretty one-sided that the wsm is the favorite. Sounds like it might be the better of the two rifles, if there is one, for me.
-
I've got a 300 WM in a T/C Encore. If you want a gun that kicks, get that one.............ouch !!
-
Awesome calipers ...But the big advantage of the 300 wsm is the ballistics are nearly identical to 300 mag but lighter. The principle at work in the 300 wsm is the advantage of fitting larger volumes of powder in closer proximity to the primers flash hole resulting in uniform and consistent ignition... I love my short mag and I would think hard about going to the 300 mag..they are so close in performance but I think the short is bitter sweet .. :twocents: :tup:
-
I liked what one HW member said about the reduced recoil from remington if you have a need for it or doing a fair amount of shooting that day.
Also I don't care what everyone on HW says, the recoil is "sharp" on a 300 mag. I've shot quite a few different flavors of 300 winnie and they all have a pretty sharp recoil. Even the heavy barreled tac gun weighing around 12 lbs had a sharp recoil.
Sticking some beast of a gun to your shoulder and bragging on the web "I can shoot it ALL day long" doesn't grow your E'peen longer.
-
I have a Winchester Model 70 in the short and its not bad at all ...I can shoot about a box before I had enough ...Fun to shoot :tup:
-
I liked what one HW member said about the reduced recoil from remington if you have a need for it or doing a fair amount of shooting that day.
Also I don't care what everyone on HW says, the recoil is "sharp" on a 300 mag. I've shot quite a few different flavors of 300 winnie and they all have a pretty sharp recoil. Even the heavy barreled tac gun weighing around 12 lbs had a sharp recoil.
Sticking some beast of a gun to your shoulder and bragging on the web "I can shoot it ALL day long" doesn't grow your E'peen longer.
Kiss my ass bud,
I stated my opinion that I have the EXACT gun he wants and it doesnt kick bad enough to scare you or make you flintch. It's a high powered heavy bullet, its not going to feel like a .243 but it packs a punch and I like it. Therefore I stated my opinion and said I can shoot it all day as a metaphor to it not being as bad as some guys are saying. But ya im trying to make my pecker bigger to look cooler in front of you KFhunter. :rolleyes:
-
I liked what one HW member said about the reduced recoil from remington if you have a need for it or doing a fair amount of shooting that day.
Also I don't care what everyone on HW says, the recoil is "sharp" on a 300 mag. I've shot quite a few different flavors of 300 winnie and they all have a pretty sharp recoil. Even the heavy barreled tac gun weighing around 12 lbs had a sharp recoil.
Sticking some beast of a gun to your shoulder and bragging on the web "I can shoot it ALL day long" doesn't grow your E'peen longer.
Some people can handle the recoil better than others. :dunno: No big deal. :dunno:
-
I have the T3 in .300 WM but in the Hunter version with a walnut stock. I feel like I can handle recoil pretty well and I'm telling you it kicks pretty good. I put a Sims Limbsaver on it and I can shoot it at the range much better. I guess I just expect it from a .300 WM. Hopefully I will only be shooting once or twice a year anyway!
Recoil is a unique and strange thing. I have shot a .300 WM in the TC encore and I thought the recoil was super manageable. It's personal I guess.
Good luck with your purchase. If I had not bought mine used I would have bought the WSM. Also something to consider is that the actions are all the same size with Tikkas so you won't be getting a lighter or smaller receiver. Only the bolt and magazine change.
SR1
-
If you want a 300 to 400 yard tikka for elk get a 7mm rem mag, you can buy ammo at a reasonable price, wsm ammo costs more 300 win mag wiil bite even with a sims. Tikka's are unbelievable for the price.
-
I liked what one HW member said about the reduced recoil from remington if you have a need for it or doing a fair amount of shooting that day.
Also I don't care what everyone on HW says, the recoil is "sharp" on a 300 mag. I've shot quite a few different flavors of 300 winnie and they all have a pretty sharp recoil. Even the heavy barreled tac gun weighing around 12 lbs had a sharp recoil.
Sticking some beast of a gun to your shoulder and bragging on the web "I can shoot it ALL day long" doesn't grow your E'peen longer.
Kiss my ass bud,
I stated my opinion that I have the EXACT gun he wants and it doesnt kick bad enough to scare you or make you flintch. It's a high powered heavy bullet, its not going to feel like a .243 but it packs a punch and I like it. Therefore I stated my opinion and said I can shoot it all day as a metaphor to it not being as bad as some guys are saying. But ya im trying to make my pecker bigger to look cooler in front of you KFhunter. :rolleyes:
not an ass kisser :chuckle:
I don't know your situation, maybe it's a peice of cake and you can shoot it all day long and not have a purple shoulder pocket the next day - or perhaps your just rocking the bags and putting your left hand behind the gun too I dunno - or maybe your using a lead sled I don't know.
You start shooting pdogs off hand all day long you'd be a sore puppy.
My point was, this isn't a beginnner gun. You'd better have solid shooting habits or it's just big enough of a gun to make a bad shooter or perhaps a person would flinch just thinking about pulling it out the safe.
When you start answering questions off the net normally your dealing with a beginner as a long time shooter with gobs of ammo down range isn't going to ask questions like "is a 300 mag too big" or how does a tikka t3 kick or whatever so I'm going to error on the side of caution with any advice I toss out
"I can shoot it all day long" could very well send a guy to a gun he's not ready for imo
I ment no offence to you, only a difference of opinion
to the OP try to borrow one first, I'm willing to bet there is a HW member nearby who'd let you try one on?
-
I have a tikka 300win mag and love it. It does kick a bit and yes your shoulder gets sore at the range after a box of rounds but its a great round and hopefully you only need 1 round for your hunt. Its easy to reload and match the trajectories of the previously mentioned calibers. You can load anywhere from 100gr up to 220gr. I use nosler partitions in 180gr. I have never had a problem with bullet performance. I keep mine going 2929ft per sec.
When it comes down to it, its all about a well placed shot and not so much about caliber
my :twocents:
-
I have many Tikkas, they are all wonderfully accurate. I prefer the 300 wm over the wsm, it simply out performs it. If recoil bothers you buy a 270. I have no problem with putting 100 rounds out of my 300wm on targets. The reason to use a 300 wm is long range performance if you do not need that, buy a 30/06. In my opinion the short mags are all marketing *censored*. The short mags are loaded with "blended powders" that we cannot buy, you cannot equal factory ballistics with reloads in wsm's.
Carl
ps. my 300 is not a tikka, I have been using it since 1972, killed many many many animals with it, but i have owned 300wm in tikka and my brother has 300wsm, that I have shot.
-
Bofire, for me, "long range" would the edge of 400 yards. Beyond that, I would not feel comfortable- yet. Especially in big, steep country like NE Oregon and that of CO. Doesn't the 30-06 drop off quite a bit after 200 yards or so?
Also, those with the 300 wm, what recoil pads are you using and with what results?
-
Both the 300 Win Mag and WSM have a 250 to 300 ft per second edge over a 30-06. With practice an 06 is just fine out to 400 and beyond. The mags do shoot flatter.
-
My dad and brother both have Tikka T3's and love em. They are nice and lightweight, the action is very smooth, and with the synthetic stock you dont have to worry about scratching them as much as a wood stock. I have a remington model 700 and I am in envy of their guns. My dad shoots a .300WSM and my brother a 308. Never had a problem with either rifle. They are great guns and if I was getting a new rifle it would be a tikka.
-
"consistant performance" is much more important than "magnum" That is why so many snipers use a 308. predictability is critical not velocity. I like my 300wm because it puts a bullet in the same spot every time. Mine is a Whitworth action, squared and trued with a Douglas air gauge barrel and Timney trigger in a custom HS precision stock.
Carl
-
Off the 300 WM subject for a sec. My 308 Savage Model 10, 20 inch barrel is a 900+ yard shooter, great gun. Now back to the 300 WM. :tup:
-
:DOH: Here we go again. Another off to the caliber race :chuckle:
-
Love my Tikka 300 wm but also my m77 Ruger in the same caliber, which i've had since 1978. IMHO the gun fitting the shooter is very important in managing recoil.
If I was going to shoot 100 rounds at pdogs it sure isn't going to be with my 30 cal. mags and not because I couldn't, just because I wouldn't. :chuckle:
-
The recoil from a 300WM in a light rifle like the Tikka t3 would be quite sharp to say the least when shooting from a bench but the light weight would really shine for hunting if you weren't put off it's thump.
The Tikka stocks do scratch and what not if they get rubbed or rested on rocks but they are great shooters that will make you proud to own one!
-
You could use horse wrap to cover the stock while hunting to prevent minor scratches.
Looking at the ballistic tables from Federal Ammo, the WSM shows to have an edge in velocity and foot pounds of energy using the same bullet. I compared the 180gr Nosler Partition in both calibers and the 300 WSM actually shows a slight edge over the 300Win Mag. Take a look for yourself, now that could be due to their test barrels but in either case the slight difference is moot, so one will feel the same recoil as much as the other when using the same bullet being fired at the same or near same velocity in the same designed firearm. Different stock designs can change felt recoil but I believe in this case between two identical rifles, the felt recoil will be almost exact.
Cabela's has a $50 off sale on all new Tikkas in stock during September 13th thru the 23rd.
-
so one will feel the same recoil as much as the other when using the same bullet being fired at the same or near same velocity in the same designed firearm.
The 300 WSM uses less powder to get the same velocities as a 300 Win Magnum. Recoil in the WSM is less.
-
so one will feel the same recoil as much as the other when using the same bullet being fired at the same or near same velocity in the same designed firearm.
The 300 WSM uses less powder to get the same velocities as a 300 Win Magnum. Recoil in the WSM is less.
That depends on pressure curves and PSI of the charge load, not always the case in every load. Depending on powder burn rate when using the same weight bullet in the same caliber in the same designed gun the shooter may feel a slight difference. With all do respect, the slight amount of difference is so negligible it's a moot point when hunting. Look in any loading manual and you will see the listed PSI of all powders used, they vary.
Load data from Hodgdon's load data website, these use the same bullet with the same powder.
300 WSM
180 GR. NOS E-TIP Hodgdon H414 .308" 2.860" 56.0 2693 52,800 PSI 60.0 2865 62,100 PSI
Load data taken from Hodgdon's load data website
300 WIN MAG
180 GR. NOS E-TIP Hodgdon H414 .308" 3.340" 60.0 2760 56,000 PSI 62.8 2849 60,600 PSI
If you notice the PSI difference between the two. Again this could be from the particular test barrel that Hodgdon is using and we all should know that barrel quality can make a difference in pressure curves just as powders can make the difference. There is also only a slight difference in maximum powder charge between the two of 2.8 grains and the velocities are 16 FPS difference with a pressure 1500 PSI difference. This is not my load data, it is from the website. There is no way anyone will feel a significant difference in felt recoil by using the same designed firearm with the same stock in the same weight of rifle using the same bullet and powder. The burn rates are the same in either rifle when using the same powder, in this case H414 even though a pressure test may show some slight difference there will not be enough to make a diff in the field.
Also if you will notice the WSM holds less powder, the pressure is higher as is the velocity, which btw go hand in hand, so in essence the WSM should have more felt recoil.
-
I appreciate what you're saying, but my personal experience from shooting both, and the experience of many others has indicated that the WSM has less recoil when everything else is equal.
-
I appreciate what you're saying, but my personal experience from shooting both, and the experience of many others has indicated that the WSM has less recoil when everything else is equal.
Again, every load fired from different guns using different brands of ammo could very likely may make the difference noticeable and that simply goes back to pressure curves.
-
Just for fun, here is another from the Hodgdon site
300 WSM
130 GR. HDY SP Winchester 760 .308" 2.720" 66.0 3267 54,500 PSI 70.0 3437 63,700 PSI
Less powder, more velocity and higher pressure = more felt recoil.
300 WIN MAG
130 GR. HDY SP Winchester 760 .308" 3.300" 67.0 3219 47,000 CUP 71.0 3360 52,300 CUP
More powder, less velocity = less felt recoil.
So in the real world, there is no difference between the two calibers, either will kill elk way out there if the shooter does his part. Reloading the cases is a different story all together where as the belt on the WIN MAG is what is used for the proper head spacing rather than the more common shoulder being used on the WSM as with most all other non-belted magnums. That makes a difference to some as does color of camo. :chuckle:
-
:) I have fired both in Tikkas, T3 lite. 300 WSM and WM side by side. My brother has the 300wsm, I had the 300 wm. I could feel no difference and neither was uncomfortable. The 300wm has about 7-10% more powder capacity then the wsm.
For me I prefer the wm.
Carl
-
website info doesn't mean crap each gun/barrel is different you have to use a chronograph, for the gun you are shooting.
-
There is a formula for calculating the theoretical recoil from cartridges. That formula shows that if the bullet is the same weight, then the load with more powder would have more recoil. Based on that formula and comparing 300WSM and 300WM cartridges, it seems that the WSM would kick less since it is more efficient (uses less powder to achieve similar velocities).
-
I have many Tikkas, they are all wonderfully accurate. I prefer the 300 wm over the wsm, it simply out performs it. If recoil bothers you buy a 270. I have no problem with putting 100 rounds out of my 300wm on targets. The reason to use a 300 wm is long range performance if you do not need that, buy a 30/06. In my opinion the short mags are all marketing *censored*. The short mags are loaded with "blended powders" that we cannot buy, you cannot equal factory ballistics with reloads in wsm's.
Carl
ps. my 300 is not a tikka, I have been using it since 1972, killed many many many animals with it, but i have owned 300wm in tikka and my brother has 300wsm, that I have shot.
Actually, I am meeting factory ballistics reloading for the 300 WSM... No pressure problems what so ever.. It is an excellent all around weapon. Everything from coyotes to elk out to 410 yards so far. However, I prefer a .338 over any .300 any day of the week. It recoils completely different imho, and is not that sharp recoil of the 7 or 300 mags.
-
Huntbear, have you tried Hodgdon Supeformance powder? I don't shoot a 300WSM but if I did, I'd try that powder. It seems to get a lot more velocity than other powders.
-
Huntbear, have you tried Hodgdon Supeformance powder? I don't shoot a 300WSM but if I did, I'd try that powder. It seems to get a lot more velocity than other powders.
No, I have not tried that particular powder...
After I did a bunch of research, I went to MagPro...and it flat works. It was designed for the short mags. Oh, and compressed loads are not really bad in this caliber if you do your research... and work em up right... both in 165 & 180 gr. bullets. Both are elk, deer and coyote killers..
-
The only thing that really bugged me the other day when I was holding the Tikka T3 in the store...was the plastic/toy feeling in the stock. For other Tikka T3 owners, did/does this bother you? Really, this is the only thing holding me up on buying this rifle.
-
The only thing that really bugged me the other day when I was holding the Tikka T3 in the store...was the plastic/toy feeling in the stock. For other Tikka T3 owners, did/does this bother you? Really, this is the only thing holding me up on buying this rifle.
It only bothers you until you sight it in and are wowed by the rifle's accuracy and then carry it in the woods for a day or three and while everyone else is rubbing their aching shoulders (from their rifle's slings), you just flex your hands a couple times and warm them up at the fire (heat vent, etc) and get ready for the next day.
FWIW my tikka is the only rifle I own that I've never tinkered with in the slightest, I shot a 3/8" group with it the first day out (factory ammo) and never looked back.
-
Yeah, the feel of the plastic stock is different but once you pack it all day long the whole package just feels right. Like I mentioned before, you can go to Del's Farm Supply and grab up a roll of horse wrap, wrap that all around the stock to prevent scratches and it has a nice grip feel to the entire stock. Once you are done, simply cut it off, no sticky residue left behind. I use it for my Tikka and AR's during the winter months and it works great. The factory Tikka stock works very well as it is. I've had two Tikka rifles but a friend shot the 25-06 and fell in love with it so I sold it to him.
-
website info doesn't mean crap each gun/barrel is different you have to use a chronograph, for the gun you are shooting.
Hey Genuis, You are obviously NOT reading my entire posts :rolleyes:
-
Tikkas notoriously love Barnes TSX in 180.
This.
I have handloaded TSX and Partitions and the TSX is a match-grade hunting bullet.
I have never gotten published velocities, either. :dunno: :dunno:
The recoil is...abrupt.
Anyone that says a 300 Magnum anything coming out of a 6.5lb rifle isn't any big deal must be punch-drunk.
I have an SVL pad and still drape a sandbag over my shoulder at the range.
Great rifle to be carried lots and shot little.
You can laugh at the guys that pay 4X as much for a 'lightweight custom'.
-
The recoil is...abrupt.
Anyone that says a 300 Magnum anything coming out of a 6.5lb rifle isn't any big deal must be punch-drunk.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: That is the painful truth by God :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:
-
The dudes arguing over a .300 WSM and .300 WM are splitting hairs. An animal sure as hell won't know the difference.
On a different note,if you can't get it done at 400yds with an '06,you aren't gonna get it done with a .300 WM.
-
FAL... I will have to check the horse wrap. Good stuff.
-
The recoil is...abrupt.
Anyone that says a 300 Magnum anything coming out of a 6.5lb rifle isn't any big deal must be punch-drunk.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: That is the painful truth by God :chuckle: :chuckle: :tup:
I have a Browning X Bolt Stainless Stalker in 300 WSM that I won at a raffle. The gun weighs about 6 1/2 pounds without scope, and around 7 1/2 pounds with. Although I've shot rifles my entire life I am the first to admit that I'm recoil sensitive, and have to consciously control an urge to flinch.
I was pleasantly surprised that I could shoot this rifle well. I have a 300 Win Mag that weighs about one pound more, and it more unpleasant to shoot.
Your mileage may vary. :twocents:
-
Recoil sensitive??? Yep.........Me too.
I used to do a lot of motorcycle racing and riding, crashed lots of motorcycles along the way trying for that first place finish. I have been hit twice by cars while riding on the street and finally ended up with an ATV crash that put me up with a broken clavicle separated shoulder and a host of other oddball injuries. My right shoulder is toast and shooting those big magnums just ain't gonna happen unless it's tied to a sled. Of course for me, I have no need for one anyways, the 22-250 does a great job on coyotes and that is all I chase these days and if the need arises for elk, I can do any elk I want with a 308 or a 270. It's usually pretty easy to get to the 300 yard mark on these elk around here and a head shot from a 308 will be plenty fire power to do the job at that range.
-
:)Guess I must be "punch drunk" I love shooting my 300. Have shot pdogs with it and coyotes. 100 rounds is no problem. extremely accurate, but mostly, totally fitted and set up for me, stock design and fit is a major issue. one of the most painful guns I ever fired was a 308 with a horrible stock, hurt my cheek and shoulder.
Carl
-
The dudes arguing over a .300 WSM and .300 WM are splitting hairs. An animal sure as hell won't know the difference.
On a different note,if you can't get it done at 400yds with an '06,you aren't gonna get it done with a .300 WM.
thats why I will take my .270 over anything ...it will do everything a mag will in the right hands :chuckle: and it will kill at 500yrds no problem :chuckle: Bullet placement is what it is all about !
-
The dudes arguing over a .300 WSM and .300 WM are splitting hairs. An animal sure as hell won't know the difference.
On a different note,if you can't get it done at 400yds with an '06,you aren't gonna get it done with a .300 WM.
thats why I will take my .270 over anything ...it will do everything a mag will in the right hands :chuckle: and it will kill at 500yrds no problem :chuckle: Bullet placement is what it is all about !
I like big bullets on big game like elk and even bear.. I will take my .338 WM.. has so much more energy at 4-500 yards... the 300's are great, I like the WSM for the short action, and using less powder to get very close to WM velocities... That said.. will still take the 225 gr. .338 bullet leaving the muzzle at about 2900 fps...
-
Take yer magnums and your heavy boolits they ain't nuttin' I'm taking the 17HMR and killin' chit way out farther than the eye can see, I can take a bear at 2 miles out with nuttin' but a 20gr V-MAX.
When I shoot that baby the ground shakes, trees fall and the waters rise!! :yike: It's like my new little friend :hunt2:
Shag me Babeee!!
-
like a lazer beam 8)
-
like a lazer beam 8)
:chuckle: :chuckle:
-
There is a formula for calculating the theoretical recoil from cartridges. That formula shows that if the bullet is the same weight, then the load with more powder would have more recoil. Based on that formula and comparing 300WSM and 300WM cartridges, it seems that the WSM would kick less since it is more efficient (uses less powder to achieve similar velocities).
Here is the formula (http://www.loadammo.com/Topics/August01.htm) I was thinking about:
The factors that enter the recoil can be written in terms of momentum where momentum is the product of mass and velocity:
Mg*Vg = Mb*Vb + Mc*Vc
Where:
Mg,Vg = mass and velocity of the gun
Mb,Vb = mass and velocity of the bullet
Mc,Vc = mass and velocity of the powder charge
So, mathematically speaking anyway, a Tikka T3 in 300WSM should recoil less than a Tikka T3 in 300WM since the rifles weigh the same, but the WSM uses quite a bit less powder to achieve similar velocity. :twocents:
-
Rifle season must be around the corner too many people are grouchy on this website.
-
Interesting thread and not meant to be grouchy. Add Lots of smiley faces here.
Curly, I think your math has a flaw. The powder charge should not be included in the recoil equation. It is converted into a gas and therefore does not have a measurable (by me anyhow) weight. Also, it appears that you end up counting outbound velocity twice in this formula by counting the velocity of the bullet x Mb + velocity of gas x Mc.
Add LOTS more smiley faces here (and I hate :) )
-
The powder charge should not be included in the recoil equation.Add LOTS more smiley faces here (and I hate :) )
I've never seen a recoil calculator that didn't include powder charge.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp (http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp)
http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm (http://www.beartoothbullets.com/rescources/calculators/php/recoil.htm)
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php (http://www.shooterscalculator.com/recoil-calculator.php)
and.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
-
:)
Well, someone a lot smarter than me came up with the science behind the formula. And the article I linked explains it pretty well. Just some science to back up what most people have already found out by comparing the cartridges.
:hello:
-
I will throw a wrench in this,
I have a Ruger M77 MKII (heavier beautiful wood stock), in 7mm, and a Sako Finlight in 300 Win Mag. The Sako is substantially lighter then the Ruger yet the Sako has noticably less recoil. If weight of the gun were the most critical factor in determining recoil, the Ruger would be less.
Now add my Son's Winchester Black Night Model 70, in .243 WSSM. This is the only caliber that has caused me to flinch in expectation, but not from the recoil but the retort. Those little buggers are very hard on the ears even with hearing protection on, LOL
-
I stand corrected on the powder charge weight but none of those links show velocity of the powder charge in the equation. :dunno: got something that shows the math :dunno:
:) :) :) :) :) :) hate smug little yellow face guy :) :) :) :) :)
-
31 lbs WSM,, 33.5 WM, in an 8 lb rifle. Throw in varibles like stock design and recoil pads, I call that no real difference.
Carl
-
Have another thought (not that it's worth saying out loud). Different smokeless powders have different burn rates and pressure curves. If you take that calculator and all you change is the volume of powder (7,000 grains = 1 lb) You get wildly different numbers. For instance, if I plug in 180 gr slug, 3000 fps, 8 lb rifle and 100/60/30/6 grains of powder you get 45/29/19/13 ft lbs.
-
DO NOT go short mag, live with the kick of the Win Mag, I've heard too many people complaining about WSM's.
-
[quote ]
DO NOT go short mag, live with the kick of the Win Mag, I've heard too many people complaining about WSM's.
[/quote]
What don't they like: the lighter weight, the reduced recoil, the stiffer short action, or something else?
-
I've heard too many people complaining about WSM's.
I'm calling BS.
I'd put money down that 95 out of 100 guys love their short mag.
-
I've heard too many people complaining about WSM's.
I'm calling BS.
I'd put money down that 95 out of 100 guys love their short mag.
:yeah:
-
I've got a Model 70 ~ 300 Win mag that I'm considering selling or trading for a 300 WSM............ 8)
-
..................my old girlfriends always loved my short mag ! :chuckle:
-
..................my old girlfriends always loved my short mag ! :chuckle:
ROFL chhhitt
ain't goin there buddy :chuckle:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.istockimg.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F6267935%2F2%2Fstock-photo-6267935-big-tree-stump.jpg&hash=e207002c5a54411fd503aa8db6988b6864875ddd)
-
..................my old girlfriends always loved my short mag ! :chuckle:
ROFL chhhitt
ain't goin there buddy :chuckle:
................but notice how big around the chubby is ? Makes sense to me !
Gonna shoot steel this Sunday ? Everybody was disappointed.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.istockimg.com%2Ffile_thumbview_approve%2F6267935%2F2%2Fstock-photo-6267935-big-tree-stump.jpg&hash=e207002c5a54411fd503aa8db6988b6864875ddd)
-
Having just picked up a Tikka T3 Stainless Lite in 270WSM, I'll chime in-
*Smoothest bolt I've ever felt.
*Lightest full-size hunting rifle I've ever owned.
*Well balanced and quick pointing.
*Deadly accurate. First and second shots were touching each other at 100 yards when fired from a lead sled.
*Ridiculously light recoil for that light of gun. Federal 140 gr factory loads. Granted, I bought it with a Limbsaver pad on it - but I put 20 rounds through it in my T shirt and felt no worse for wear. My no-recoil pad M70 Featherweight 30-06 shooting 180 grains 500 fps slower is "severe" compared to this gun.
I have no complaints with the gun or the round.
-
I have the Tikka T3 hunter in 300WSM. Simply put: butter smooth action and 1/2 in MOA out of the box with factory loaded 180gr Nosler Accubonds. Now that being said...one thing that was pointed out to me was ammo availabiliy. A friend pointed out that if I wanted to take my Tikka to another country or Alaska and happened to lose, misplace or what have you the ammo that 300WM ammo is plentiful the world over! He has a good point but I have to say I'm betting no matter what caliber you choose you will not be sorry for choosing a Tikka. I was very impressed and am happy with my Tikka. 8)
-
I have the Tikka T3 hunter in 300WSM. Simply put: butter smooth action and 1/2 in MOA out of the box with factory loaded 180gr Nosler Accubonds. Now that being said...one thing that was pointed out to me was ammo availabiliy. A friend pointed out that if I wanted to take my Tikka to another country or Alaska and happened to lose, misplace or what have you the ammo that 300WM ammo is plentiful the world over! He has a good point but I have to say I'm betting no matter what caliber you choose you will not be sorry for choosing a Tikka. I was very impressed and am happy with my Tikka. 8)
I kinda feel the same way. Nice gun.
-
I own the tikka T3 300 WM. Yes, it does kick a bit but like others have said. Put an aftermarket recoil pad on it and you will be fine if it bothers you. I personally have no problem unloading 25-30 rounds before my shoulder is a little sore. It's up to the individual. As for the down range performance. I can't personally say from experience which is better, the 300 wsm or the 300 wm, because I haven't shot a wsm. However, everything I have read here in this thread seems to match the research I have done that indicates that the 300 wm outperforms the wsm at longer ranges.
-
Two of my hunting partners have the Tikka T3 300 WSM and love them. Last year I bought my son the same rifle in .308. It feels and shoots better than anything else in our gun case. I hate to say it but I'm jealous of my 13 year old kid. Maybe he'll let me borrow his gun. :)
-
....................when you shoot at an animal, you never feel the recoil, I don't, to excited. Seems to be only when sighting in the gun. :tup:
-
Thanks for all the input everyone...what a great thread of info. I officially ordered my Tikka T3 Lite 300 WSM in the stainless barrel/synthetic stock from Wholesale Sports. They didnt have one in stock but had one shipped from the Silverton store...should be here in a few days. Cant wait! I will do a review when I get to put some rounds through it and then...how it performs in Oregon and Washington for Rockies, Roosies and Blacktails this fall.
-
Ya should'a got the 300 Win Mag.................it's better :chuckle: :chuckle:
-
Ya should'a got the 300 Win Mag.................it's better :chuckle: :chuckle:
:yeah:
-
LMAO....maybe! Talk to 10 guys that say 300 WM and 10 more that preach WSM... For me, hopefully this is the upgrade I am looking for.
-
The WM was designed for Blued guns and the WSM designed for stainless ones :rolleyes:
so there ya go, it'll all be fine, except you have to carry around fat boolits now.
Carl :chuckle:
-
Thanks for all the input everyone...what a great thread of info. I officially ordered my Tikka T3 Lite 300 WSM in the stainless barrel/synthetic stock from Wholesale Sports. They didnt have one in stock but had one shipped from the Silverton store...should be here in a few days. Cant wait! I will do a review when I get to put some rounds through it and then...how it performs in Oregon and Washington for Rockies, Roosies and Blacktails this fall.
If you need some reloading data to start with, holler at me..
-
The WM was designed for Blued guns and the WSM designed for stainless ones :rolleyes:
so there ya go, it'll all be fine, except you have to carry around fat boolits now.
Carl :chuckle:
I do believe Carl has it figured out.
It's the blued guns that kick harder too!!! :chuckle: :chuckle: :hello:
-
It's the blued guns that kick harder too!!! :chuckle: :chuckle: :hello:
[/quote]
Dang, that must be why I had to put a limbsaver on my WSM...It was all that blued stuff on it! :dunno:
-
I've got that exact rifle and I love it. Folks who debate a WSM vs. a WM are the same folks, (or maybe the grandchildren of the folks) that used to argue the 30 Remington vs. 30-30. They both have pro's and con's, but neither is so much better than the other to warrant any debate. Love my 300 WM for no other reason than brass is cheap and available.
I love light weight rifles. A wise man (Dad) once told me, "you will pack 'em a lot more than you shoot 'em".
Don't know why, but for some reason Tikka's seem to shoot really, really well right out of the box.
Good luck and good shooting to you.
-
I love my Tikka T3 300 WM, but if I was to buy another rifle it would be a Tikka T3 7M Mag. Flatter shooting and great downrange energy. Could you imagine shooting a Tikka + 7MM + Berger bullets with their great BC.....now that would be a great long range powder stick. Ya, there are better rifles out there, but not in my price range..... :chuckle: