Post by: Ridgeratt on September 13, 2012, 04:47:03 AM
September 13, 2012 in SportsLanders: Wolves make taking dogs into wild risky
By Rich Landers The Spokesman-Review
Wolves have changed the playing field in northeastern Washington.
Livestock grazers aren’t the only people who must make adjustments as wolves reintroduce themselves to their former range. Hikers, hunters and other recreationalists will need to make the transition, too.
Especially if they bring their pet dogs along.
Wolves won’t tolerate other canines in their territory. We know this from Alaska and British Columbia, where wolves have harassed people walking their dogs and killed pets in the process.
We know this from Idaho, where hound hunters learned the lesson the hard way early in the wolf reintroduction process.
We know this from Yellowstone, where wolf packs decimated coyote populations that had enjoyed a relatively hassle-free life before canis lupis was reintroduced to the park and the Northern Rockies in the mid-1990s.
And Jim Groth of Colville knows the threat wolves pose to dogs from a personal experience he had last week at the south end of the Kettle River Range.
“It changed the way we think about going into the mountains,” he said.
Groth was working for the Forest Service doing fall mushroom surveys southeast of Republic and about 5 miles north of the Colville Indian Reservation boundary.
He was hiking through timber near Hall Ponds with Ollie, his 90-pound golden retriever-Labrador mix.
“He’s very well socialized and gets along great with other dogs,” Groth said.
But wolves are another animal.
“The dog had wandered down below me a ways and I heard some scuffling,” he said. “I saw something black and I figured it was a bear, so I started down through the thick deadfall. It wasn’t a pleasant place.
“Then I thought, ‘I’ve never seen a bear move back and forth that fast.’
“I was yelling, and the dog started coming up toward me. I could see a little blood on his neck. He kept looking back. Then I could see, following very closely, was a big, black wolf.
“The wolf had a little taste of my dog and I think it wanted to finish him off.”
Groth grabbed Ollie by the collar and leashed him as he yelled at the wolf.
“I’m from Minnesota and I’m no stranger to wolves,” he said. “But they’ve always been shy in my experience. This one was not. It just kept coming to within 25 feet of me. Then I noticed another, smaller grayish-colored wolf behind it.”
Groth said he yelled and lunged toward the wolves, trying to look big and tough.
“The big wolf stood his ground woofing for a minute or so before it turned and walked away, but both wolves still hung around as I tried to get out of there,” he said.
Ollie wasn’t interested in being aggressive or protective. Groth noticed the bleeding was only on his neck and wondered if the big, thick collar might have given his dog a break.
After another anxious minute or so the wolves slinked away.
“It was quite unsettling,” Groth said. “It took an hour to get back to the road with the dog on a leash. I was looking over my shoulder a lot.
“Like most people, I’m used to just heading out with my dog in the forests, whether I’m working or recreating. But all of a sudden the old rules don’t apply anymore in this place where I live.”
Back at his vehicle, Groth ran into a bowhunter and told him about his encounter.
“The hunter asked if there was a smaller grayish wolf with the big black wolf,” he said. “When I said yes, the hunter nodded and said he’d run into them last year, so it appears they’ve been in the area for a while.”
Groth doesn’t know if there were more wolves with the two he saw. The Colville Tribe has documented two packs on the reservation and has put GPS collars on three animals to monitor their movements.
To the northwest, state officials are trying to kill some wolves in the Wedge Pack, which has been killing cattle. Five other packs are known to be roaming the tri-county area of northeast Washington
“A few thoughts keep coming back to me,” Groth said.
“First, is how black, big and healthy that wolf was. It was jet black from nose to tail. A beautiful, healthy animal; one of the most incredible things I’ve seen in the woods. But then, my dog came out of it OK. I might not be thinking so fondly of the moment otherwise.
“I’m concerned about their lack of shyness. They were undaunted by me.
“And I want to make sure people know what’s going on. A lot of hikers and campers come out here with their family dogs.”
Grouse hunters will have to think twice about cutting loose a pointing dog that occasionally zips out of sight.
“These wolves aren’t just moving through,” he said.
“I won’t be carrying a gun because they’re heavy and I’m not the kind of guy who would use it.”
But as he struggled out of the woods that day with Ollie – during that hour that seemed more like 10 hours as he looked over his shoulder scanning for movement or any indication the wolves were still there – he made some promises to himself.
“I’m getting a little boat air horn,” he said.
“And I don’t think I’ll be leaving the bear spray in the truck anymore. It’s pretty useless there.”
Post by: ICEMAN on September 13, 2012, 06:59:28 AM
Post by: jackmaster on September 13, 2012, 07:02:16 AM
Post by: remington300mag on September 13, 2012, 07:06:46 AM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on September 13, 2012, 07:30:59 AM
Post by: UptheCreek on September 13, 2012, 07:43:42 AM
Post by: PBinWA on September 13, 2012, 09:18:41 AM
I was the bowhunter he ran into last week. He and his dog were fortunate that there were only 2 wolves. The area he came out on is some pretty tough hiking and thankfully his dog only had a couple bite marks. I know what would have been the outcome had it been me and my dog....
If you find a small air horn while you are out - you'll know who it belongs to! :chuckle:
Post by: Huntbear on September 13, 2012, 09:23:53 AM
It smells like a Lab, and has airhorns in it.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: quadrafire on September 13, 2012, 09:33:20 AM
How do you tell wolf scat????:chuckle:
It smells like a Lab, and has airhorns in it.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
On a serious note.... How do you think bear spray would work as a wolf deterrant??
Post by: Huntbear on September 13, 2012, 09:36:38 AM
How do you tell wolf scat????:chuckle:
It smells like a Lab, and has airhorns in it.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
On a serious note.... How do you think bear spray would work as a wolf deterrant??
Not ever gonna find out..... there is a reason either my .45 or my .44 mag are always on my hip... I never carry bear spray... I carry bear loads in my revolver....
Post by: woodswalker on September 13, 2012, 09:38:21 AM
How do you tell wolf scat????:chuckle:
It smells like a Lab, and has airhorns in it.... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
On a serious note.... How do you think bear spray would work as a wolf deterrant??
Not nearly as well as 00 buckshot.
Post by: NW-GSP on September 13, 2012, 09:50:51 AM
Post by: woodswalker on September 13, 2012, 09:52:13 AM
A gun is too heavy but your going to carry bear spray and a air horn.
>I< never thought A gun was too heavy...more than 2-3 of them might be too heavy.
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 13, 2012, 04:29:17 PM
There are 2 schools of thought here.
1: The folks who's dogs run around with bandana's on and the stroll in the woods in shear bliss of the world
around them. These people will watch "Fluffy" the wonder dog get shredded!
2: The person who while they have their dog in the woods is armed and they will light them up like the 4th of July.
Not sure which group I fall into but the Yellow Q-tip will have a good chance the wrath of hell is standing next to her!!
Right now I'm torn on the fact some of my Blue Grouse ridges may become off limits to us. Just because we can see the Diamond M from them.
Post by: 6x6in6 on September 13, 2012, 04:47:48 PM
My 2 Aussie Shepherds would be toast before I could get off the horse and start picking off wolves. If it should ever happen, sadly enough, I'll be waiting over my dog as a bait pile hoping for the pay-back-is-a-bit$% moment.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on September 13, 2012, 04:51:56 PM
Post by: waterdoctor on September 13, 2012, 06:17:07 PM
I always carry my .44 when away from the house.
Post by: Mudman on September 13, 2012, 06:26:49 PM
Post by: UptheCreek on September 13, 2012, 09:12:18 PM
Post by: Mudman on September 13, 2012, 09:17:59 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on September 13, 2012, 09:25:36 PM
On a different note, i don't bring my dogs to Idaho with me anymore since one is a husky, I don't think wolf hunters will notice a collar ; )
I am very cautious of them exploring around camp or running free in the woods in wa since they seem to be spreading everywhere and I have heard what happens when wolves and dogs meet. I used to worry about coyotes, not anymore!!!!
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 16, 2012, 08:07:04 PM
Said she's going next weekend or my shoes are "TOAST"!! :IBCOOL:
Post by: KFhunter on September 16, 2012, 08:24:42 PM
Post by: bearpaw on September 16, 2012, 08:37:04 PM
This is exactly the sequence of events that occurred in ID/MT.
We need legislators to get on this issue before it's the human and not the dog that gets attacked. :twocents:
The state better get on top of this quick, next year more pups will be born and put twice the number of wolves on the landscape. In the beginning wolves increase in population very quickly, ask anyone in ID/MT.
Post by: madmack76 on September 16, 2012, 08:50:15 PM
Post by: windygorge on September 16, 2012, 08:57:41 PM
A gun is too heavy but your going to carry bear spray and a air horn.
:yeah:
Post by: notawolffan on September 22, 2012, 12:47:07 PM
Post by: KFhunter on September 22, 2012, 04:46:06 PM
Post by: notellumcreek on September 24, 2012, 10:14:59 AM
You need something to protect the neck too or else that vest is pointless. :twocents:
On a side note, anyone think there would be a type of dog that could maybe at least hold its ground for a bit against a wolf/wolves? I know if a dog is out numbered they are screwed from the start, but after all this wolf talk, with me going into the woods all the time, and a dog in the near future, I think I will be getting something big... we use to have a 180Lb great pyrenees that was a tank, use to take firework mortars to the face because he would stick his nose down the tube... and he would attack any other fireworks we lit for him :chuckle: one of the best dogs I have ever known.
Post by: GrousePointer on September 24, 2012, 10:48:08 AM
:yeah:
You need something to protect the neck too or else that vest is pointless. :twocents:
On a side note, anyone think there would be a type of dog that could maybe at least hold its ground for a bit against a wolf/wolves? I know if a dog is out numbered they are screwed from the start, but after all this wolf talk, with me going into the woods all the time, and a dog in the near future, I think I will be getting something big... we use to have a 180Lb great pyrenees that was a tank, use to take firework mortars to the face because he would stick his nose down the tube... and he would attack any other fireworks we lit for him :chuckle: one of the best dogs I have ever known.
Great Danes and Irish Wolf hounds were once bred to handle wolves.
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Post by: BIGINNER on September 24, 2012, 10:52:15 AM
Post by: GrousePointer on September 24, 2012, 11:02:13 AM
It's up for debate, but in the Midwest the recommendation is to make sure your dog has beeper and/or bell on in the woods so as to give predators (wolves in particular) some warning something is in the woods. Nothing pisses a predator off more than being surprised, especially by a dog. Of course, some would say you're just ringing the dinner bell doing that I guess.
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Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on September 26, 2012, 06:17:36 PM
:yeah:
You need something to protect the neck too or else that vest is pointless. :twocents:
On a side note, anyone think there would be a type of dog that could maybe at least hold its ground for a bit against a wolf/wolves? I know if a dog is out numbered they are screwed from the start, but after all this wolf talk, with me going into the woods all the time, and a dog in the near future, I think I will be getting something big... we use to have a 180Lb great pyrenees that was a tank, use to take firework mortars to the face because he would stick his nose down the tube... and he would attack any other fireworks we lit for him :chuckle: one of the best dogs I have ever known.
I'm sure some of the larger breeds could hold their own for a bit, but with a pack a 12 ga semi auto with buck shot is your best bet ; )
Post by: huntinguy on September 26, 2012, 08:59:10 PM
but in the Midwest the recommendation is to make sure your dog has beeper and/or bell on in the woods so as to give predators (wolves in particular) some warning something is in the woods. Nothing pisses a predator off more than being surprised, especially by a dog. Of course, some would say you're just ringing the dinner bell doing that I guess.
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So, when I take my dog with me I have to rig him to scare off half of creation!
What is the point of walking in the woods then? :bash: :o
I think I will stick with my paint ball gun.
Post by: Ridgeratt on September 26, 2012, 09:07:40 PM
but in the Midwest the recommendation is to make sure your dog has beeper and/or bell on in the woods so as to give predators (wolves in particular) some warning something is in the woods. Nothing pisses a predator off more than being surprised, especially by a dog. Of course, some would say you're just ringing the dinner bell doing that I guess.
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So, when I take my dog with me I have to rig him to scare off half of creation!
What is the point of walking in the woods then? :bash: :o
I think I will stick with my paint ball gun.
The start of this topic was the fact the peoples dog's are getting attacked in the woods.
I can hear it now!
Well Officer the wolf will be easy to Identify. It's got a Blue paint mark on it's side. :chuckle:
Post by: GrousePointer on September 26, 2012, 09:24:58 PM
but in the Midwest the recommendation is to make sure your dog has beeper and/or bell on in the woods so as to give predators (wolves in particular) some warning something is in the woods. Nothing pisses a predator off more than being surprised, especially by a dog. Of course, some would say you're just ringing the dinner bell doing that I guess.
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So, when I take my dog with me I have to rig him to scare off half of creation!
What is the point of walking in the woods then? :bash: :o
I think I will stick with my paint ball gun.
Suit yourself. I've been hunting with pointing dogs for some time now and I can tell you they always have a beeper or bell on them. We even come home with birds in the bag.
What separates me from most people hiking in the woods is I accept that by going in there, or in a field, I'm putting my dog at risk by virtue of their "occupation" as gun dogs.
Gun dogs die from all manner of things every year and wolves are at the very bottom of the list of dangers. But I'm not a Pollyanna who thinks the woods are, or should be, my safe playground. Nor do I think I shouldn't do what I can to prevent an encounter.
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