Post by: Mark Youngblood on September 24, 2012, 05:32:52 AM
Post by: buglin4bulls on September 24, 2012, 06:03:44 AM
Post by: Natas5150 on September 24, 2012, 06:22:50 AM
Post by: Chukarhead on September 24, 2012, 09:52:02 AM
Post by: tgray on September 26, 2012, 07:53:23 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 26, 2012, 08:35:04 AM
Looking for suggestions on what loads to try for elk in Wa using my Knight Bighorn? I drew the multi season tag and may try some of the late season areas and wanted to get a load dialed in.
I am a little late adding my thoughts to this thread, and please remember these are only my thoughts... I have made a switch in bullets this year fro my elk hunting. I am using a Lehigh .458-305 grain bullet designed for the 45-70 center fire rifle. It really is not abig change for me as I previously used the Bloodline .458-300 grain. I shoot it from my MK-85 and a Knight DISC 52 cal... For the MK the powder load is 110 grains of T7-3f and from the DISC 120 grains of T7-2f..
This is the 458-300...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FLehigh300DOA.jpg&hash=745411efe692901bdf43e61ca24d9c314dafcd5b)
This is the 458-305...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2F458-305.jpg&hash=ed23af00ee24ea555cd266b7bac7ff6ebbfd8e22)
You might check this thread out... I discuss a little more information about the bullet in it...
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=search2 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=search2)
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 26, 2012, 09:53:03 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 26, 2012, 11:53:35 AM
one of things thats frustrating to me, is that there is no consistancy for a favorite long range "projectile", i've been all over the internet, and for every guy who says a 250 tmz is best at 150 yards, there are two that say they shoot either a 200 or 400 something, thats just as good or better, lol. its just all over the map. The only thing consistent is 100gr of triple7. still having fun though.
Shoot Gearhead there are a lot of bullets that will shoot to 200 yard very accurately, It is realy what to do at the animal that matters to me... I guess this might sound corny but accuracy at 200 yard only needs to be so good in the hunting situation. The bullet I shoot might be a good example - I truly believe if I were shooting for accuracy only - I would not be shooting the bullet I am shooting. I certainly would find a sleek pointed bullet with a BC and I would reduce the powder also...
For me again it is what it does in the animal... here is my definition of a good bullet...
The Hunting bullet should be the most lethal big game hunting bullet available. The bullet design should allow the bullet to penetrate 2 to 3, through bone or tissue, before it starts to expand the petals. After the bullet starts to expand or shed it petals it should adversely affect all the surrounding internal organs. The combination between the expansion of the bullet and/or release of the petals and the creation of hydrostatic shock produces a massive wound cavity within the vital area (internal organs) that can be 13 to 15 long. I believe that in most case the bullet should pass through the body providing a secondary exit hole for blood and debris. This massive wound cavity results in the animal dropping fast since most go into shock after such a tremendous blow. Those animals that dont go down immediately will soon succumb to blood pressure loss and/or organ failure producing a quick ethical kill. Using a bullet matching this description will normally result in an animal that goes down fast so you can enjoy the results of your hunt without having to track the wounded animal after the shot.
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 26, 2012, 02:57:55 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 26, 2012, 03:17:13 PM
Thanks for increasing my frustration by 50 percent, lol. :)
I really did not mean to do that - honest!
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 27, 2012, 08:55:37 AM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 27, 2012, 09:06:56 AM
i was joking of course, looks like for now anyways i'll be hunting with 250gr TC Shock Wave bonded core bullets being pushed by 100gr (loose) of 777 ffg. in my disc extreme, they seem pretty accurate in it. might experiment with 120 gr of loose powder friday, but this load so far seems good for about 125 yards with my eyes.
You know honestly... I would stay right there at 100 grains with that particular bullet. Shooting it with a 120 grains and the velocity it would generate, might cause the bullet to pencil right through a deer at the closer ranges. Deer hide is really pretty thin and does not offer a lot of resistance to a pointy bullet so expansion might not start and shooting through a deer in that case would be really easy. Elk would be a little different story and shooting the longer ranges over 100 yards when the bullet slows down and loses energy it works very well.
Also remember what I suggested... Accuracy is not everything.
Post by: GEARHEAD on September 27, 2012, 12:30:25 PM
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2012, 12:38:08 PM
Post by: Sabotloader on September 27, 2012, 01:40:34 PM
If a bullet is moving at a higher speed than what it was designed for, it won't "pencil" through, it will disintegrate. More velocity doesn't equal less expansion.
I have to disagree a little bit from personal experience. A 300 Winchester Mag is a good example I use, when I elk hunt with the Mag one of the bullets that I use to use was Sierra 200 grain BTSP. Normally I would never use this particular bullet on a deer but on a couple occasions I did. One doe (whitetail) was shot at 23 yard with this bullet. It was a broad side shot the bullet missed the ribs on the entrance side and clipped a rib on the way out on the other side. With the bullet traveling near 3000 fps second it really never knew that it went through animal. Both the entrance and exit would were very difficult to find on the surface of the hide, very little bleeding from either hole. It would have been easy to push an arrow completely through the body without an effort. The vitals had a very nice 3-4 inch tunnel cut through to the other side -plenty of bleeding there.
The bullet was simple to fast through the body to expand and it never got enough resistance for a long enough time at that velocity to start or for expansion to occur. At greater ranges 100 yards and beyond the bullet functions really well. Penciling of a bullet at close range is not an uncommon event. We do not load bullets for short range hunting and most do not load a ML with reduced loads to shoot short range especially when using a bonded sharp pointed bullet.
Had the shot been on an elk with the tougher thicker hide and carcas it would have acted more normal, but still a poor bullet for that range at that velocity.
One way to help break this from happen - shoot a bone at close range that should start expansion faster.
A bullet with a great surface exposure on the other hand will start expansion sooner as there is a greater pressure exerted on the front of the bullet.
Just my thoughts from things I have seen...
Post by: bobcat on September 27, 2012, 01:47:04 PM
Not saying you didn't have a bullet "pencil" through a deer at close range, but try shooting that same deer with the same bullet at 500 yards. I guarantee that bullet is not going to expand more than it did with the close shot.
Post by: Sabotloader on September 27, 2012, 02:09:13 PM
I disagree with that 100%.
Not saying you didn't have a bullet "pencil" through a deer at close range, but try shooting that same deer with the same bullet at 500 yards. I guarantee that bullet is not going to expand more than it did with the close shot.
OK we are at the agreement to disagree
Post by: mossyhead on September 30, 2012, 07:13:37 PM
Post by: elkboy on December 29, 2012, 12:52:49 PM
Post by: mrgoodwrench on January 22, 2013, 08:30:18 PM
Post by: elkboy on January 24, 2013, 11:42:09 AM