Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 12:35:28 PM

Title: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 12:35:28 PM: does anyone know when they go in rut? Compared to Mule deer and whitetails what do they act like the most.....

for the successful hunters out there, how do ou hunt a black tail?

havent done alot of BT hunting and am interested in learning more.....
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Antlershed on August 25, 2008, 01:33:08 PM: I'm no expert, but from what I have seen, it can vary from year to year. Sometimes they will go into rut during the general modern firearm season, and other years it seems like not until the late modern firearm season.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 01:35:54 PM: does anyone know about horn growth and size growth by age for BT?

just wanting to know how old a good size full 4x4 bt would be?

and what a 2x2 would be?

kind of seems like BT horns dont grow like WT or nule deer.....
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: billythekidrock on August 25, 2008, 04:26:54 PM: My experience has led me to believe that the pre-rut is the time to hunt and it can hit about the second week of the season to the end of Oct. The late buck hunt in Nov is good, but alot of the big bucks are locked down with does.

Keep glassing those thick cuts for bears and you should find some bruiser BTs.

There is no way to age a deer by it's rack. A mature buck will be 3 to 4 pts. A forkie could be 1-3 years old. A lot of it depends on genetics, feed, location, etc.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 04:34:50 PM: Quote from: billythekidrock on August 25, 2008, 04:26:54 PM
My experience has led me to believe that the pre-rut is the time to hunt and it can hit about the second week of the season to the end of Oct. The late buck hunt in Nov is good, but alot of the big bucks are locked down with does.

Keep glassing those thick cuts for bears and you should find some bruiser BTs.

There is no way to age a deer by it's rack. A mature buck will be 3 to 4 pts. A forkie could be 1-3 years old. A lot of it depends on genetics, feed, location, etc.

can you feed them like wt?
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: billythekidrock on August 25, 2008, 04:41:54 PM: Quote
can you feed them like wt?

They are harder to hunt than whitetails, but they can be trained to hit an apple bucket.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 04:45:01 PM: apple bucket huh? ide be afraid of doing anything like that, to many people would think you were doing something questionable.

ill stick to spot and stock........
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: billythekidrock on August 25, 2008, 04:57:19 PM: Quote from: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 04:45:01 PM
apple bucket huh? ide be afraid of doing anything like that, to many people would think you were doing something questionable.

Then what did you mean by feeding them?
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: bucklucky on August 25, 2008, 05:00:33 PM: Most of my Bucks have been killed during the pre rut earliest being oct. 16th and he was fully swelled and his legs were stained dark brown to his hooves right on a doe. So I would say what Willy told you is spot on! Seems like the peak rut is the first weekend of nov around here. Seems to vary with elevation.When I hunted St Helens all the time Late buck would be absolutely prime time even after into the opener of late archery for the rut. Seems like the rut tappers off quite abit during late buck or a bit after around my place.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on August 25, 2008, 05:07:49 PM: Exactly what BTKR said. Their is no way to age a deer by it's rack, or by how many points it has. You have to look at a combination of things to age a deer. Teeth and Body structure are 2 ways to determine the age range of a Deer.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: bucklucky on August 25, 2008, 05:11:13 PM: A deers body is fully mature at 3 years isnt it, then from then on they bulk up an dget that big blocky look them old blacktail bucks get. Some have a big ugly roman nose some dont. Once you find a big old potbelly swayback you know you got an anchient blacktail and he may only sport a big heavy 2 point rack! It may only be 16 inches wide and heavy. Watch for the fully white muzzle and I mean all the way to the eyes.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on August 25, 2008, 05:12:38 PM: Here is a break down on aging a Buck during the season.

*In their first year or approx 6 month ( First Deer Season) you can tell their small and have buttons (sometimes spikes).
*In their 2nd - 3rd season or 1 1/2 - 2 1/2 they look kinda goofy. Their legs look longer than they should in proportion to their body. They also have waht I call a high belly.
*In their 4th season 3 1/2 years they start to fill out but still don't look well proportioned. .Legs are still a bit long,
*In their 5th season 4 1/2 years they are well proportioned and filled out.
*In their 6th season 5 1/2 years they start to develop a pot belly and their back starts to drop.
*In their 7th season 6 1/2 years they more than likely have a good pot belly going on as well as solid looking. This is usually the point when antler start to decline. Than again it realy depends on the health of the deer.
*From theie 8th season 7 1/2 years they will begin to develope a sway back and begin to break down and really start looking their age.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 05:16:23 PM: maybe deer feed pellets or something......not sure really......
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: blacktailer on August 25, 2008, 07:18:30 PM: Hey there Jay. I'll add my two bits. I've found that they are rutting pretty hard during our late season which runs Nov. 13-16. That doesn't give a guy a lot of time but they are moving around a lot at that time. As far as horn growth and age goes, I would say that there are a lot more big 2 points, 2 x 3's, 2 x 4's, 3 x 5's, etc... than anything else. Finding a typical 4 x 4 with eyeguards (at least in Whatcom County) are not real common. Lots of big old muture bucks that never grew 4 points. I found the same thing hunting Sitka Blacktails on Kodiak for several years. Finding a typical 4 x 4 can be real tough. They can be a very elusive deer, but I don't think a mature blacktail is spooky as a mature whitetail. Blacktail, Whitetail and Mule deer are all fun to hunt and we are privelaged to live in one of two or 3 states (Don't know if CA has whitetails) and one province that one can enjoy hunting all 3!!! Good Luck
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Coasthunterjay on August 25, 2008, 08:57:51 PM: well i found an area that has a large amount of deer, and about 6 bucks, but theres 2 spikes, 2 1x2, and a small barely 2x2, and a ok size 2x2 with little poker eye guards and im just wanting to know if there are so many does and so many little bucks in an area, where are the big boys.....or WHERE IS THE BIGBBOY.if you know what i mean....

i have been hunting for a long time, and seeing animals like this repeatedly tells me that there has to be a large dominant buck in the area.....is he completely nocturnal, maybe? but i have spent alot of time in this one clear cut and havent seen anything big yet.....not even anything heavily massive.......

but ill hunt general Whitetail season and if i dont get a large WT, then ill wait for november to see if i can get the apapa to come out when he is all hipped up and stupid....
would be nice to put a big BT on the wall next to last years WT.....
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: 300rum on August 25, 2008, 09:56:54 PM: Here is my :twocents:. I look back at my notes, about 20 years worth and just like in town the monsters start to come out around Halloween. The bigger bucks necks swell up earlier, stink, etc. then the young bucks do. I always consider Halloween the time where the bigger bucks start letting their guard down and come out earlier and stay latter etc. On the Monday before Thanksgiving two years ago I watched a very nice 4-point breed a doe multiple, multiple times. There were 3 other bucks, one that was pretty nice himself watching, the bigger buck would chase the doe around a bush in a circle for about 5 minutes sometimes, she would stop and he would do his thing and he would go lay down (and have a cig) :chuckle: and she would go bed down in another place about 50 yards away. He would get back up about 20-30 minutes latter and the whole thing would start over again, this took place for probably 4-5 hours. It is the only time that I have seen a buck actively breed a doe. I would have tried to put a sneak since the two were preoccupied but I was worried the other bucks would bust me. I don't know if this would be the "second rut" or not.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: buckhorn2 on August 26, 2008, 08:41:09 AM: Seems to me the rut is somehow tied into the game department where I live on the coast you usually see the biggest deer that are really in the rut right in elk season
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: BlackTail on August 26, 2008, 12:32:22 PM: I'm with 300rum and buckhorn2. Where I am (the coast) seems like things start happening around the end of October and I, without fail, see the biggest buck of the year during elk season. Haven't hunted the late season over here the last few years but I know that can be productive too. A mature Blacktail is one of the toughest animals to hunt, in my opinion. They are tough to pattern and with a little pressure can turn entirely nocturnal. They may spend their whole lives in a small area and they know every trail in and out. They can hold tighter than a pheasant and let you walk right by them or they can sneak out the back before you ever knew they were there. I've seen a buck belly crawling through knee-high grass so as not to be spotted (darndest thing I've ever seen).

Scouting early while the bucks are in velvet is extremely helpful. In my experience once their horns get hard the big bucks get scarce. I see less and less of them, but if I've spotted them during July and August I know they are around. I like to glass clearcuts at first and last light and still hunt big timber during the day. I especially like timber that I can see into a creek bottom that has good cover or timber that butts up to some reprod. Lots of times I like to find a good spot in the timber where I can see some well used trails and just sit for as long as I can. It can be slow at times but it's how I've had my best luck hunting these ghosts! Good luck!
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: 300rum on August 27, 2008, 09:08:44 PM: Quote from: BlackTail on August 26, 2008, 12:32:22 PM
I've seen a buck belly crawling through knee-high grass so as not to be spotted (darndest thing I've ever seen).

I thought I was the only one! Saw that once my self. The buck was on the other side of a bush from me, maybe 20 or 30 feet, not yards. I was waiting for him to come out the other side, when he didn't I looked on the other side of the bush and he was crawling out the other way. We saw each other about the same time and I missed as he boogied out.
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: bucklucky on August 27, 2008, 09:14:44 PM: Mid august about 7 years ago I was checking a stand of timber I usually hunt. About 50 yards aeay there stood a deer, looked like a doe until I realized the horns were way wider than I am used to seeing, he was about 23-24 wide and just a big 3 point. Told my girlfreind at the time to watch that buck I wanted to get a closer look . That I walked almost straight to him but had a little clump of brush I had to go around. He disapeared , I kept going right to where he stood and nothing. This is a flat wide open peice o ftimber with 2 ft tall ferns. The only thing he could have done was crawl away!
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: 300rum on August 27, 2008, 09:44:21 PM: Quote from: bucklucky on August 27, 2008, 09:14:44 PM
Mid august about 7 years ago I was checking a stand of timber I usually hunt. About 50 yards aeay there stood a deer, looked like a doe until I realized the horns were way wider than I am used to seeing, he was about 23-24 wide and just a big 3 point. Told my girlfreind at the time to watch that buck I wanted to get a closer look . That I walked almost straight to him but had a little clump of brush I had to go around. He disapeared , I kept going right to where he stood and nothing. This is a flat wide open peice o ftimber with 2 ft tall ferns. The only thing he could have done was crawl away!

We should probably start a topic that goes something like this.....Have you ever been tracking an animal and the tracks just disappeared into thin air?
Title: Re: Blacktail question?
Post by: Bigshooter on August 27, 2008, 10:44:37 PM: Last week of October is my favorite time to hunt blacktails. You will get some rutting then. But if you are hunting up high late buck is usually better than the last week of October.