Post by: GrousePointer on October 04, 2012, 01:14:09 PM
http://www.gov.ns.ca/natr/wildlife/doc/PetOwners.pdf (http://www.gov.ns.ca/natr/wildlife/doc/PetOwners.pdf)
Post by: Stilly bay on October 04, 2012, 01:21:25 PM
here are some videos for those that ain't no gud at wurd readin.
Conibear release.m4v (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVTyT3_nIcM#)
Save your dog's life: release him from a conibear trap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zlWzkfRJRI#)
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 04, 2012, 01:51:38 PM
Post by: jplmyers on October 04, 2012, 02:09:03 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 04, 2012, 03:45:45 PM
Post by: jplmyers on October 04, 2012, 04:53:39 PM
Post by: Stilly bay on October 04, 2012, 05:46:56 PM
its usually a lot cheaper to put together your own first aid kit rather than buying a pre-made one. that way you know exactly what is in it and where to find replacements. some k9 kits come with a lot of filler that you will probably never use.
Post by: jplmyers on October 04, 2012, 06:04:39 PM
Post by: Stilly bay on October 04, 2012, 06:17:59 PM
Ahhhhh, yes. Lactated ringers for subcue-whose-it's. Actually I have no idea what that is... what are they?
think of an I.V. drip from any episode of Grey's anatomy or ER. good for severe trauma- dehydration - snakebites ect
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.penncare.net%2FShop%2Fimages%2FProduct%2Fmedium%2F63.jpg&hash=0298219be1d92efd0461c7f42aa8b8dc6a5fc24b)
Post by: akirkland on October 04, 2012, 06:21:28 PM
Post by: jplmyers on October 04, 2012, 07:14:43 PM
akirkland, there is quite a bit of it on Muck Creek. My Scout got into it on 13... it picks up/gets caught in debris so it's often hard to see. I walked into it several times as a Lieutenant at night lol.
Post by: Stilly bay on October 04, 2012, 08:10:27 PM
That's pretty hardcore. I don't know if I would know where to buy one, let alone administer it correctly.
not too hardcore. you can get them at your vet clinic for about $40 with vitamin B. make sure they give you a good tutorial before you leave. they are pretty simple once you figure them out, but they can cause added problems if you don't know what your doing.
they are very useful if you get in a bind, and they keep forever unless you open them.
Post by: GrousePointer on October 05, 2012, 06:51:08 AM
Tip, if you're looking for vet wrap, ask your vet if they have any used rolls. They can't use it post surgery so anything left over on the roll gets thrown out. Kind of like that wrong order you get at Burger King that will get thrown out once you get the correct one.
My rule of thumb is if the injury goes beyond something I can take care of with some gauze, cotton balls, and vet wrap the dog is most likely in real trouble and my time would be better spent heading to a vet asap.
One item i haven't seen mentioned here, a leatherman. Great for pulling porcupine quills and cutting wire when needed. Hemostats are a must as well.
Post by: Humptulips on October 05, 2012, 02:09:52 PM
Fur trappers are limited to cage traps in WA so you are not apt to find any trap that wiil hurt your dog in anyway. All you'll have to do is open the door.
There are special permits for damage control written allowing trappers to use conibears and foot hold traps but they are typically written for damage control work and may only be used on private property so a check with the landowner will tell you if there are traps in the area.
Foothold traps in WA used with the permits must be padded jaw traps. The video posted is very good. The only thing I can add is to talk to your dog and calm it down before you attempt to remove the trap. Contrary to popular belief the animal will not be in much pain. He will be frightened initialy and may lash out and bite you even if you are his buddy.
I've removed a number of dogs from traps and if you talk to them for a bit they cam down and it is easy tp remove the trap. It is really unlikely that there will be any damge to the dogs foot beyond possibly a lttle soreness.
Conibear traps must be set underwater in this state if they are used with one of the special permits. Even before the law changed in 2000 we could not set a conibear big enough to catch a dog on land. It is highly unlikely you will ever encounter a conibear that can catch a dog in WA. If you do the video is a good primer on how to remove the animal.
Snares are illegal under all circumstances so I wouldn't think you would ever encounter these either but if you do they are the least likely to harm your dog and usually it is easy to back the snare up with your fingers and release the dog. Wire cutters are not needed.
So let's say you encounter a trap that maybe you think, Man, this thing is wicked and shouldn't be out here. It is more than likely an illegaly set trap. What should you do? So often people see a trap, don't like it and pick it up. This is absolutely the wrong thing to do plus it is illegal. Leave everything right where you found it and call Fish & Wildlife. Let them make the determmination if it is illeagal or not. If you remove the trap the chances of them catching the perpetrator drops considerably and if it is legally set he will know that. If you take the trap you will have broken the law.
Post by: jplmyers on October 05, 2012, 04:18:06 PM
Humptulips, I have heard most of the damage to a dog comes from the frantic owner who doesn't know how they operate. What's your experience on that?
Post by: Humptulips on October 05, 2012, 07:04:20 PM
Well that's good to know when hunting in WA.
Humptulips, I have heard most of the damage to a dog comes from the frantic owner who doesn't know how they operate. What's your experience on that?
In recent years I haven't caught very many dogs. Those I have caught were in OR. None of them were injured even slightly but then I do know how to work the trap.
In the past I would say the long check times that were legal was the one thing that would hurt a dog. Today most states have 24 hour check. WA is among them. OR has a 48 hour check. A dog released in 48 hours isn't going to be hurt and if you are there with it there is not enough time for any problems. If you go back 25 years before trap check laws it could be a problem if an animal was in a trap for an extended period.
If you get in a state where they allow larger conibears to be set on land that is an accident waiting to happen. I know they have had problems in WIsconsin and Minnesota. Some of the new conibears that have been designed to kill quickly don't leave you much time and they can permanently injure a dog. I know OR had a couple of incidents last year. This is probably the biggest problem. These traps were not really asked for by trappers. They are being forced on us because they are considered more humane. The only advice I can offer in a state that allows larger conibears on land is to stay close to your dog and ask landowners if traps are in the area. Take a piece of small rope with you rope to help remove a trap, see the video.
As far as footholds go, take your time when removing a dog from a trap. A few minutes won't hurt it.
Post by: GrousePointer on October 05, 2012, 09:24:29 PM
1. People hunt out of state with their dogs. Different states have different rules so the more you know...
2. Despite laws to the contrary, people occasionally set traps illegally. About 5-6 years ago a guy from Georgia lost his Brittany to an illegally set conibear while grouse hunting in Michigan. The guy knew nothing about such traps, the dog died in his arms, and it took three people to pry the thing off the dog at a DNR station.
I meant it as a public service post, not something against trappers. For what it's worth.
Post by: Humptulips on October 05, 2012, 09:37:50 PM
The reason I posted the link that started this thread was for the following reasons...
1. People hunt out of state with their dogs. Different states have different rules so the more you know...
2. Despite laws to the contrary, people occasionally set traps illegally. About 5-6 years ago a guy from Georgia lost his Brittany to an illegally set conibear while grouse hunting in Michigan. The guy knew nothing about such traps, the dog died in his arms, and it took three people to pry the thing off the dog at a DNR station.
I meant it as a public service post, not something against trappers. For what it's worth.
Didn't take it as anything against trapping. It's a good topic and I get the part about out of state hunting.
Thought you might be interested in a trappers point of view and what you are likely to encounter in WA.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 07, 2012, 11:23:39 AM
The reason I posted the link that started this thread was for the following reasons...
1. People hunt out of state with their dogs. Different states have different rules so the more you know...
2. Despite laws to the contrary, people occasionally set traps illegally. About 5-6 years ago a guy from Georgia lost his Brittany to an illegally set conibear while grouse hunting in Michigan. The guy knew nothing about such traps, the dog died in his arms, and it took three people to pry the thing off the dog at a DNR station.
I meant it as a public service post, not something against trappers. For what it's worth.
Didn't take it as anything against trapping. It's a good topic and I get the part about out of state hunting.
Thought you might be interested in a trappers point of view and what you are likely to encounter in WA.
Last time the subject came up the trappers got all defensive. Who knows why? Conibears are illegal without a permit in Wa. so, should be a non-issue. Last year in Oregon I believe there were three dog deaths due to conibear traps which made the news and were heavily publicized. I think all three were legal traps as well.
Good videos. I wouldn't have really had much of a clue how they work without it. I've only set the old leg clamp style grandpa used around the turkey farm for coyotes.
Post by: Humptulips on October 07, 2012, 07:58:42 PM
The cases in Or I know, one was Wildlife Services which are exempt from the laws we have to follow. A lot of times the problems are caused by land owners breaking the law on a do it yourself damage control job. Fur trappers get hit with calls for a ban on trapping even when It doesn't seem it's out fault.
The result of all this is a siege mentality.
You'd get the same way if every time someones dog bit someone there was a call to ban the ownership of dogs.
Best thing is to think about what the other guy is up against and try and understand. True for trappers and dog hunters and everyone else.
Post by: Stilly bay on October 07, 2012, 08:05:30 PM
Trappers get defensive because we are constantly under attack.
these days its a hard sport to defend, with few grey areas to hide in.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 08, 2012, 08:36:11 AM
You'd get the same way if every time someones dog bit someone there was a call to ban the ownership of dogs.
Best thing is to think about what the other guy is up against and try and understand. True for trappers and dog hunters and everyone else.
They did and now hunting with hounds is illegal so, when people illegally hunt, I don't cry about it.
Post by: Humptulips on October 08, 2012, 08:16:43 PM
Trappers get defensive because we are constantly under attack.
these days its a hard sport to defend, with few grey areas to hide in.
Totally untrue if you take the time to learn about it. Most people don't bother and that is trappings problem.
You probably don't know anything about the last 15 years of scientific studies by The US and Canada to identify the most humane traps. Probably aren't familiar with the new trap developments such as dog proof traps, cable restraint devices and the ad ons to foot hold traps that have become popular such as jaw laminations, multiple chain swivels, shock springs to stop foot damage? Pan tensioning to limit non-target catches?
Know anything about the positive results Delta Waterfowl has shown by using trappers to control predators during nesting season.
Wonder how Lynx were reintroduced to Colorado, Fisher to WA and yes wolves to Yellowstone? Guess what they were all trapped and yes their feet came through it OK.
Looks like I'm sounding defensive. Wonder why?
Post by: Stilly bay on October 08, 2012, 08:48:28 PM
I don't know all the ins and outs, this is very true. I also don't have a problem with trapping as long as its done humanely, which by and large it is these days. years ago I was even signed up to take the trappers education course so that I could do some trapping of my own, but that was the year they shut it down in Wa.
I wish trapping was as common as it used to be, maybe there would be less raccoons and more pheasants. I hope they trap and kill every last coyote in suburbia.
not sure what else I can say to prove I am on your side...
but the fact remains its a damn hard sport to defend in this day and age, especially when fur bearing animals are the target.
Post by: Humptulips on October 08, 2012, 09:19:08 PM
didn't mean to step on your dick, maybe I should have put a smiley down.
I don't know all the ins and outs, this is very true. I also don't have a problem with trapping as long as its done humanely, which by and large it is these days. years ago I was even signed up to take the trappers education course so that I could do some trapping of my own, but that was the year they shut it down in Wa.
I wish trapping was as common as it used to be, maybe there would be less raccoons and more pheasants. I hope they trap and kill every last coyote in suburbia.
not sure what else I can say to prove I am on your side...
but the fact remains its a damn hard sport to defend in this day and age, especially when fur bearing animals are the target.
OK, Truce, but maybe a good insight as to why trappers get a little defensive.
A question though. Why do you think targeting furbearers makes trapping harder to defend?
Post by: Stilly bay on October 08, 2012, 10:22:20 PM
A question though. Why do you think targeting furbearers makes trapping harder to defend?
hunters can claim they are "harvesting food" or "feeding their families" which IMHO is an utter farce for a huge percentage of the hunting population. but we pretty much rely on that to keep the antis at bay and save face in front of people who don't hunt but aren't against it.
-this is not how i view trapping, but since you asked...
fur bearing trappers can claim depredation, or its how they make an income. but at the end of the day its all about beautiful wild animals dying (in some cases slowly dying) so some lady can look fashionable and so the trapper can make a few bucks. animals suffering and dying for human selfishness and money doesn't sound good to many people that are ambivalent to hunting and trapping and it really makes the animal rights people Chit their cage... even though some of them have no idea about the horrors going on in a slaughter house as they eat their big mac.
you gotta remember the only thing most people know about trapping are the terrible video clips put out by the animal rights people. I was kinda glad to see that yukon men show didn't sugar coat the trapping lifestyle, but I don't think they shed an unfavorable light on it either.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 09, 2012, 12:49:41 AM
Post by: Stilly bay on October 09, 2012, 12:57:30 AM
hey, on my "to-do" list is running a trap line with an outfitter I got to know who works out of Babine Lake, BC. The area has an over population of wolverines and wolves. Great website of their yearly takes if you look it up. Had dinner with the guys after the sportsman show last year. Good doods.
that would be pretty cool. I have wanted to run my own trap line since I was a little kid, but I think I am living in the wrong state to take up trapping, or at least the wrong part of the state.
I got to tag along with a friend who had a trap line up near kamloops, it was quite the experience.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 09, 2012, 01:31:32 AM
http://www.babineguides.com/2011-Photo-Gallery.html (http://www.babineguides.com/2011-Photo-Gallery.html)
Post by: Humptulips on October 09, 2012, 07:06:50 PM
A question though. Why do you think targeting furbearers makes trapping harder to defend?
hunters can claim they are "harvesting food" or "feeding their families" which IMHO is an utter farce for a huge percentage of the hunting population. but we pretty much rely on that to keep the antis at bay and save face in front of people who don't hunt but aren't against it.
-this is not how i view trapping, but since you asked...
fur bearing trappers can claim depredation, or its how they make an income. but at the end of the day its all about beautiful wild animals dying (in some cases slowly dying) so some lady can look fashionable and so the trapper can make a few bucks. animals suffering and dying for human selfishness and money doesn't sound good to many people that are ambivalent to hunting and trapping and it really makes the animal rights people Chit their cage... even though some of them have no idea about the horrors going on in a slaughter house as they eat their big mac.
you gotta remember the only thing most people know about trapping are the terrible video clips put out by the animal rights people. I was kinda glad to see that yukon men show didn't sugar coat the trapping lifestyle, but I don't think they shed an unfavorable light on it either.
I know you are playing devils advocate but this is the thing that makes trappers crazy.
This is not the truth about trapping.
Did you know that almost all wild fur produced in North America is destined for Russia? Much of it is bought and manufactured in China and in Greece but the end user is typically in what used to be the Soviet Union. It gets cold there and is used for warmth. Everyone likes to look nice in the clothes they wear but it is not a fashion statement over there. Furs utility is the prime driver behind wild fur sales. The weather in Russia is always watched closely by fur buyers and trappers. A cold winter in Russia = increased fur sales and prices.
Another one is the myth about traps slowly killing furbearers or causing suffering. Once upon a time, yes but there is little excuse for that now.
Perhaps a little recent history lesson is in order. In 1997 the Canadian and Russian governments signed an agreement with the EU to phase out inhumane traps. The US signed a different but similar agreement about 6 months later.
As a result of this the Canadian government starting doing testing on killing traps. In order for a conibear to pass the tests it had be able to render an animal irreversibly unconsious within 300 seconds of capture.
The US starting doing testing on foothold traps. Some of that testing was done here in WA. There is a long list of criteria but basically if the target animals foot is damaged the trap fails and will not be certified.
All of this testing wasn't completed until just the last few years but we have some very good guidlines to go by now.
Of course WA pretty much opted out of these standards when I-713 passed.
I try to make the case to people that we practise population management. I am a WCO which allows me to trap for hire year around for problem wildlife. Typically most calls come in during the spring and summer. The less fur trapping we do the more nuisance calls we get. We can fur trap to control the population during the winter or we can let the population increase and trap them when people start calling us with animal damage problems. Trouble is when we trap in the spring and summer the animals go to waste plus you run the risk of orphaning furbearers offspring.
Fur trapping is the responsible way to control furbearer populations.
FYI, there really are some pretty succesfull trapping methods being pioneered in WA with the laws we have so don't count out giving it a try.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 10, 2012, 12:57:14 PM