Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: troyc on October 15, 2012, 10:45:04 AM

Title: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: troyc on October 15, 2012, 10:45:04 AM: I picked up a CVA elkhorn and went to the range last weekend. I only managed to get 11 shots out of 40 primer fires. IN almost every case the musket cap went off but the charge was not ignited (no boom). I cleaned everything multiple times (just with brushes) and it didn't seem to help. I wanting to shoot musket but I also tried the no 11 nipple as well with the same results (can't use 209 in my state).

The powder that I looked at after misfires seemd to be chared but did not go off. So it makes me think that not enogh of the cap ignition flame is reaching the powder. My friend was using the same powder as myself and did not have this issue.

I have noticed the nipple whole is quite a bit smaller than my friends traditions nipple whole. Is this expected?

Any ideas?
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 15, 2012, 11:18:23 AM: Bad primers or bad powder. I have the same gun and its not the gun. The musket caps have tons of fire. As long as the hole threw the nipple is clean it should go bang.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: JJ_in_Lincoln on October 15, 2012, 11:18:50 AM: I had the problem with the Buckhorn. Until I noticed a crack in the nipple, can't figure how it happened or how it'd make that much difference. That's all I can think of, :sry:
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: HORSEPOWER on October 15, 2012, 11:21:12 AM: I switched nipples in mine. Also if you are using the pellets, make sure they are tamped in there really good (like crushing them a little for some loose powder to help ignite). Did all the caps go off? If not, and the new nipple doesn't work, you have to loosen the nipple about a 1/4 of a turn in order to make the proper connection. Not a very reliable set up. 3 of us bought these last year and all 3 needed to be tweaked for weird reasons. We are using NO. 11 caps.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: MagKarl on October 15, 2012, 11:45:16 AM: What are you using for powder? Loose lights much more reliably than pellets.

Are you sure the flash channel is clean? If this is a new gun it's possible that the path is still coated with preservative and just plain gooped up. Might try flushing with strong solvent like carb cleaner till you can blow through easily. Obviously you need to do this with care not to get on plastic or wood, etc.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: Russ McDonald on October 15, 2012, 11:51:46 AM: Do you have an orginal nipple that came with the gun...if not get a perfect nipple by CVA. That is what it is called. Here is a good link that you might want to look at. I switched to the perfect nipple and use T7 powder with 11 caps and not one problem so far. http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,101301.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,101301.0.html)
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 15, 2012, 12:02:53 PM: i personally would go with the hollow base Spitfire nipple that cabelas sells.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: ctwiggs1 on October 17, 2012, 11:26:52 AM: Soooo.... I had this problem.. And don't worry, 1/3 men do... twice.

So here's what I did the first time it didn't go off: I figured it must be all the carbon buildup. I cleaned the gun real good and oiled it like i do the rest of my firearms, then put it away.

Round 2: POOF. Cap goes off and powder doesn't. I figure what the heck? Cleaned the whole thing again but this time only put the paste on the threads. No oil on the inside of the gun anywhere.

Round 3: 20 shots at the range with no problems at all.

Curtis
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: Jburke on October 17, 2012, 01:39:36 PM: My dad had this same problem with his cva buckhorn last week. The caps were not seating far enough onto the nipple. Switched it with a new nipple and problem solved.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 17, 2012, 06:11:41 PM: Quote from: HORSEPOWER on October 15, 2012, 11:21:12 AM
Also if you are using the pellets, make sure they are tamped in there really good (like crushing them a little for some loose powder to help ignite).

This is a good observation. Not only did I start getting better groups when I would tamp the load down hard 2-3 times, I also had zero misfires. Where before I had a misfire probably 1/25 shots. The pellets do crumble pretty easily when tamped.

I shoot the Buckhorn Magnum with Pyrodex Pellets, musket caps, and Powerbelt 348 HP
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: TheHunt on October 17, 2012, 06:25:13 PM: If it was me. I would pick up some piple cleaners. Smoking Pipe like sherlock homes smokes. Then clean the nipple and the channel to the barrel.

That should solve the problem
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: RG on October 17, 2012, 06:29:43 PM: When you store your gun after cleaning, especially if you put oil in the barrel, store it muzzle down on a cloth. That way all the extra oil will run out of the muzzle instead of collecting in the breech and fouling your powder. I speak from experience on this one. Use loose powder instead of pellets and the pipe cleaner idea is good to make sure the flash channel isn't fouled. Once you get a shot to go off everything should get blown clean so if it still doesn't work but the cap fires, you have bad powder.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: ing on October 17, 2012, 06:38:31 PM: Toss that CVA and buy a Knight. I had problems with CVA and Thompson Center muzzle loaders when I first got started years ago. I bought a Knight Wolverine in 2003 and converted it to musket caps and have never had a miss fire since.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: splitshot on October 17, 2012, 07:48:51 PM: this is why i did not buy a cva. a friend had the same problem. he had 2 elk standing in the road and poof. they did not run away. just my opinion but i would get a knight or a wolverine. not a misfire yet. mike w
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: gadwall on October 18, 2012, 06:22:48 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on October 15, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
Bad primers or bad powder. I have the same gun and its not the gun. The musket caps have tons of fire. As long as the hole threw the nipple is clean it should go bang.

Carp and I are comparing notes on this stuff all the time. 4 things that I have learned:

1) When cleaning, I use the following procedure every time-
remove and clean the nipple
bore brush a few times
TC bore cleaner on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
TC bore butter, sparingly on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
replace the nipple

Particularly when shooting pellets, if you have the slightest amount of gun oil ahead of the breech plug, you're done.

2) Though this does not seem to be your problem here, I take the bolt completely apart at least once a year and clean everything real well

3) German musket caps without the flange are the way to go and use the CVA nipple

4) loose powder is much more reliable in the Elkhorn and you can tailor your loads for accuracy

Gadwall
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: scout/sniper on October 18, 2012, 06:33:08 AM: Quote from: gadwall on October 18, 2012, 06:22:48 AM
Quote from: carpsniperg2 on October 15, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
Bad primers or bad powder. I have the same gun and its not the gun. The musket caps have tons of fire. As long as the hole threw the nipple is clean it should go bang.

Carp and I are comparing notes on this stuff all the time. 4 things that I have learned:

1) When cleaning, I use the following procedure every time-
remove and clean the nipple
bore brush a few times
TC bore cleaner on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
TC bore butter, sparingly on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
replace the nipple

Particularly when shooting pellets, if you have the slightest amount of gun oil ahead of the breech plug, you're done.

2) Though this does not seem to be your problem here, I take the bolt completely apart at least once a year and clean everything real well

3) German musket caps without the flange are the way to go and use the CVA nipple

4) loose powder is much more reliable in the Elkhorn and you can tailor your loads for accuracy

Gadwall
I also always fire a cap down the barrel just before using after cleaning. This ensures that everything is dry.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: Sabotloader on October 18, 2012, 07:25:22 AM: Quote from: scout/sniper on October 18, 2012, 06:33:08 AM
Quote from: gadwall on October 18, 2012, 06:22:48 AM
Quote from: carpsniperg2 on October 15, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
Bad primers or bad powder. I have the same gun and its not the gun. The musket caps have tons of fire. As long as the hole threw the nipple is clean it should go bang.

Carp and I are comparing notes on this stuff all the time. 4 things that I have learned:

1) When cleaning, I use the following procedure every time-
remove and clean the nipple
bore brush a few times
TC bore cleaner on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
TC bore butter, sparingly on a patch around the brush
Dry patch
replace the nipple

Particularly when shooting pellets, if you have the slightest amount of gun oil ahead of the breech plug, you're done.

2) Though this does not seem to be your problem here, I take the bolt completely apart at least once a year and clean everything real well

3) German musket caps without the flange are the way to go and use the CVA nipple

4) loose powder is much more reliable in the Elkhorn and you can tailor your loads for accuracy

Gadwall
I also always fire a cap down the barrel just before using after cleaning. This ensures that everything is dry.

Amen! I pop at least 3 before loading after cleaning....
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 18, 2012, 09:00:30 AM: ditch the bore butter, thats amateur stuff :o

Most likely the flash hole in the nipple is to restrictive. I've had sidelocks that wouldn't fire at all, even with real black powder. Once I opened up the flash hole to .030" no issues at all.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: splitshot on October 22, 2012, 07:15:11 PM: i use stuff called "dust destroyer" which is compressed-gas duster. it really dries things out. mike w
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: BOOM!! on October 22, 2012, 07:26:40 PM: Quote from: MountainDevil54 on October 18, 2012, 09:00:30 AM

Most likely the flash hole in the nipple is to restrictive. I've had sidelocks that wouldn't fire at all, even with real black powder. Once I opened up the flash hole to .030" no issues at all.

This makes a lot of sense to me, I have wondered why the flash hole is so small, I have assumed it is for pressure. Does anyone know what size the flash hole is on a #11 nipple?
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: MountainDevil54 on October 22, 2012, 07:37:04 PM: it varies from maker to maker. I think theres one called the knight red hot, thats a good one, i have one on my other sidelock.
Title: Re: CVA Elkhorn - musket cap ignites but powder does not
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on October 22, 2012, 07:58:46 PM: If you are using pellets in a sidelock--DON"T! Pellets are made for inlines. The fire from a cap in a sidelock has to make a 90 degree turn to get to the powder charge. Loose powder will work its way at least partially into the hole in the breechplug getting the powder closer to the ignition fire. Pellets, on the other hand will stop at the bottom of the barrel and remain a longer ways from the ignition channel. Enlarging the hole in the cap might help, but if you go too big, the pressure might blow the hammer back, possibly even to the half-cock position. :twocents: