Post by: fishngamereaper on October 23, 2012, 08:34:04 PM
The rifles barrels I have shot out in the past have been round count based and never age based. Well now Im faced with the dilema that my old hunting buddy is worn out. My go to rifle since I was 13 is a Ruger M77 7mag. It was used when my dad gave it to me and I have had it for over 25years. On average it may get 10-20 rounds a year through it. Last year I had no problems with it(one shot kills on deer and elk). This year it shot great right out of the safe. Well, so far this year I have missed two blackies, and its killing me. Having never missed an animal needless to say I have been beating myself up. Took the old girl to the range and she is all over the place. One or two rounds are in but the majority are thrown, like 8-10" in every direction. Ive cleaned the barrel several times and get one or two rounds in but then it starts dancing again.
Im going to throw another scope on it to check but the Nikon on it now is only 3 years old and has never been bounced or dropped. Im afraid that the 30 year old steel may have seen better days. Any opinions on barrel steel wearing because of age?
Oh and I mainly shot Accubonds, but Ive tried Federal and Remmington during this process and no change.
Post by: Huntbear on October 23, 2012, 08:42:56 PM
Check your crown. Is it rough? got a tiny burr? use a Q tip to check it.
Post by: NW-GSP on October 23, 2012, 08:44:47 PM
Post by: FC on October 23, 2012, 08:46:13 PM
Check the stock and use some good copper solvent/fouling remover on the barrel.
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 23, 2012, 08:48:05 PM
Just saw you varied ammo, so that should rule that out.
Post by: runningboard on October 23, 2012, 08:51:44 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 23, 2012, 09:05:03 PM
Post by: Fl0und3rz on October 23, 2012, 09:08:22 PM
Post by: Huntbear on October 23, 2012, 09:17:33 PM
Post by: dewandgin on October 23, 2012, 09:26:07 PM
I am still thinking the crown has a burr in it.. or it is fouled really badly, with copper... not sure what you use for cleaning, but get something stronger (more toxic so to speak) A barrel does not go away that fast. You would notice it getting worse over time...
:yeah:
Have a M77 270 that was gave to me 34 yrs ago and it has at least 50 + rounds a year through it and it shots great still. One year it had in excess of 500 rounds through it. Lived in WYO and used it for coyotes and prairie dog and jack rabbits
Post by: Three_Oh_Eight on October 23, 2012, 09:30:05 PM
As far as throat erosion with a magnum, unless you're heating it up real hot and continuing to shoot it in a session, I don't think you'll see an appreciable loss of accuracy until you have at least 1500 rounds through it. You might see throat erosion at as few as 200 rounds, but the barrel will still be plenty serviceable. That is, unless you're shooting some of the uber-overbore stuff like the 257 Weatherby or the 22 Eargensplittenloudenboomer.
I'd be checking bedding of the action, barrel contact, crown, scope and scope rings. You may play with a shim under the barrel up by the fore-end to see if some upward pressure on the barrel might help. Check the crown for burrs. A re-crown is usually pretty simple. If you have another scope that you really trust, swap out and use the proven scope. Scopes have more demons in them than just about anything in my experience.
Post by: Three_Oh_Eight on October 23, 2012, 09:31:10 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 23, 2012, 09:38:02 PM
No issues with mine at all, ever.
I would agree with Huntbear and look for a possible bedding issue or copper fouling.
Post by: lokidog on October 23, 2012, 09:39:29 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 23, 2012, 10:27:22 PM
Have a competent gunsmith look over the rifle/ scope.
Post by: JohnVH on October 23, 2012, 10:33:01 PM
but its a magnum so I wouldnt expect it to be.Uhh, huh?
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Post by: washelkhunter on October 23, 2012, 10:34:34 PM
Post by: sirmissalot on October 23, 2012, 10:46:35 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on October 23, 2012, 10:48:08 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on October 23, 2012, 11:04:22 PM
-Steve
Post by: thinkingman on October 24, 2012, 11:08:15 AM
That's a bedding/barrel pressure against the stock changing as it heats up issue.
Post by: arees on October 24, 2012, 11:47:32 AM
:yeah:but its a magnum so I wouldnt expect it to be.Uhh, huh?
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I have a 30+ year old 700 shooting 7mmMag that will shoot 1/4 inch groups. Float it, bed it, handload and expect accuracy. It certainly shot crappy groups until I floated and bedded it.
I just wish I was as consistent as it is.
I would worry about something messed up with your stock to barrel contact.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on October 24, 2012, 11:47:50 AM
My first thought is copper fouling, but you say the first two score then it goes bad.....As in 'when the barrel heats up, it gets wild'.
That's a bedding/barrel pressure against the stock changing as it heats up issue.
After I wrote, I sort of thought the same thing, but in the OP he says he's missed two animals. I figure those are cold bore shots, (I won't address unknown environmental conditions or shooter ablility), where the heat factor is completely removed. But, if the stock is loose, POA/POI will be affected and provide intermittent accuracy issue. Also, in the field, temperatures during this fall's mornings are likely to have been much different than sighting sessions during the day prior to season. A crack in the stock/bedding could be the culprit.
I want to bring reloaded ammunition into the picture. Premium bullets or not. Experienced reloader or not. Have you shot some good 'ole factory offerings through this gun at paper? Have you let another accomplished shooter fire it with the same ammo, getting the same results?
-Steve
Post by: yorketransport on October 24, 2012, 08:26:17 PM
Andrew
Post by: Bob33 on October 24, 2012, 08:40:06 PM
Post by: fishngamereaper on October 25, 2012, 03:18:22 PM
Shot 4 rounds got a nice group. 5th round flew. 6th round flew. Switched ammo and 3 good rounds. Ugh.
Now Im at the point where Im running out of like ammo to test, I have 3 of this and 4 of that, so I need to go get a couple more boxes to finish the trial and error process. It does seem that the rifle does not like remmington ammo. Normally I dont shoot remmington but I had some and figured I would give it a try. Over the last two days Ive shot about 40 rounds through it(shoulders a little stiff). Seems to like the 140gr Federal, and the 160 Winchesters I normally use, but hates 175gr remmingtons with a passion.
Now its becoming an expensive experiment with ammo. $50 a box sucks, but what do you do.
During this process my groups are getting better, as I am cleaning it after every 4-5 rounds. The problem is I thought I had it dialed in the end of yesterday with a solid three shot group, then #4 was a little off. Ill be getting more ammo today and getting to the range again next week to try and get it figured out.
Thanx to all that replied. At this point I think its a barrel issue, wether its fouling or a burr that I cant see.
And for some of the questions brought up, its a wood stock, never had any custom bedding work done, and I shoot factory ammo, dont have time to reload anymore. So ya, I dont expect super tight groups. AND no, its not me, all my shots on deer where rock solid, and at the risk of sounding to much like an arogant arse I wont comment on how competent my rifle skills are. ;)
Post by: arees on October 25, 2012, 04:39:23 PM
Did you look for any points where the stock is rubbing against the barrel? Are the bolts holding the receiver to the stock evenly and correctly torqued?
Post by: shoot-em-dead on October 25, 2012, 06:20:49 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on October 26, 2012, 07:55:00 AM
Shot 4 rounds got a nice group. 5th round flew. 6th round flew. Switched ammo and 3 good rounds. Ugh.
The problem is I thought I had it dialed in the end of yesterday with a solid three shot group, then #4 was a little off. Ill be getting more ammo today and getting to the range again next week to try and get it figured out.
Thanx to all that replied. At this point I think its a barrel issue, wether its fouling or a burr that I cant see.
A burr or fouling will generally not allow a few/several shots in a good group, then leave one flier/flier after that. All would be fliers/or a wider dispersion of group. I have to agree with some other posters, that there is a sighting/optic issue since you have eliminated stock/action fit possibilities.
-Steve