Post by: bow-n-head on October 24, 2012, 08:57:38 PM
This way of thinking got me in alot of hot water with a ranch manager. He informed me that all the ranchers where I hunt are pissed at me for hunting State and Federal land without there permission.
I emailed the state land board to complain. The guy from the State read my email to the rancher. Even though the agent told me the rancher did have the state land illegally posted. He also told me the rancher couldn't keep me off the state land. The rancher then informed me that is not how it works up there. I needed to get permission even on state and federal lands.
How would you deal with a rancher like this?
I feel if I press the issue I may lose a lot of land to hunt on.
But I am also tired of being pushed around by a ranch hand who thinks he owns the mountains.
The state doesn't seem to want to step on anyones toes, so they are fairly toothless. They want to close a road through state land. Making hunting the hills impossible, due to the 3 mile walk just to get to where you will start hunting.
Anyways just trying to get a feel for what is rite here.
Post by: Bob33 on October 24, 2012, 09:02:30 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on October 24, 2012, 09:03:36 PM
If you have public access to state land, tell him to pound sand.:yeah:
Print out the law...then tell him to put up a counter or shut up.
Post by: RifleRidge on October 24, 2012, 09:08:12 PM
If you have public access to state land, tell him to pound sand.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :tup: :tup:
Post by: bobcat on October 24, 2012, 09:08:21 PM
Post by: RifleRidge on October 24, 2012, 09:08:51 PM
If you have public access to state land, tell him to pound sand.:yeah:
Print out the law...then tell him to put up a counter or shut up.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Dan-o on October 24, 2012, 09:23:07 PM
Post by: klikboom on November 04, 2012, 11:42:08 AM
Post by: Jonathan_S on November 04, 2012, 11:57:30 AM
[/quote]
Couldn't hurt to be he peacemaker on this one if permission is easy to come by.
This is kind of what I was going to say. Kind of, not completely.
"Well, sir this is state land that is open to the public to hunt by permission to everyone in the state. Here's a number that they asked you to call :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:"
"By the way, if you want me to get permission from you, does that mean I can hunt YOUR ranch?"
Post by: pianoman9701 on November 04, 2012, 12:04:59 PM
Post by: whacker1 on November 04, 2012, 12:23:49 PM
Couldn't hurt to be he peacemaker on this one if permission is easy to come by.
This is kind of what I was going to say. Kind of, not completely.
"Well, sir this is state land that is open to the public to hunt by permission to everyone in the state. Here's a number that they asked you to call :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:"
"By the way, if you want me to get permission from you, does that mean I can hunt YOUR ranch?"
[/quote]
Things are handled differently in many places in Montana than they are here. Some locals and ranchers have a lot more control than many people believe they should, because no one from the law, goverment, etc is willing to intervene.
I think you need to approach them when not hunting and simply say something along the lines of
"we have a few options:
Option 1: You make a peace offering, jerky, peperroni, sausage, etc and explain your point of view of it being state land, and that you would like to hunt it with his blessing and that you will respect his property and his animals.
Option 2: a little more harsh - Ignore him and document any unusual activity, and let him that you know the law and that you will have him prosecuted for harrasing hunters in the pursuit of game. I assume montana has a law similar to Washington.
Option 3: til him point blank that you don't appreciate that he is playing dictator over public access ground, and that you will continue to hunt it and we can go about life hating each other or we can figure out how to get along.
Or Option 4: Find other places to hunt....While I hate letting the bully win, I hate having to look over my shoulder when hunting as well. It is supposed to be not only about the harvest, but also be an enjoyable experience.
best of luck, and make sure you are at peace with the law enforcement and game wardens of the area and even better make friends with them.
Post by: mooke on November 04, 2012, 02:28:24 PM
Option 5: Do a search for Montana 45-8-115. Have the State read results of search to rancher.
Post by: smdave on November 04, 2012, 02:36:34 PM
45-8-115. Illegal posting of state and federal land. (1) A person commits the offense of illegal posting of state or federal land if, without authorization, the person knowingly posts land that is under the ownership or control of the state or federal government to restrict access or use of state or federal land.
(2) A person convicted of illegal posting of state or federal land shall be fined an amount not to exceed $500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months, or both.
If a lessee does mark state land and request notification, he must provide approved drop
boxes at a normal access points and display an approved sign from the State Department
of Natural Resources or information posted at access points where notification can be
given. The key word is notification. As long as you have the recreational use license
(Conservation License), you need no other permission.
Post by: Bob33 on November 04, 2012, 02:37:27 PM
Not sure if I can post links, so...
Option 5: Do a search for Montana 45-8-115. Have the State read results of search to rancher.
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-115.htm (http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-115.htm)
Post by: smdave on November 04, 2012, 02:39:32 PM
lawful hunting activity. A hunter faced with such situation can call the 1-800-TIPMONT
(1-800-847-6668) line immediately to file a complaint. When violations take
place, federal and state law enforcement often work together and can decide where a case
can best be prosecuted.
Found in this article
http://www.montanawildlife.com/publications/archives/TheLawIsOnYourSide-Oct08.pdf (http://www.montanawildlife.com/publications/archives/TheLawIsOnYourSide-Oct08.pdf)
Post by: smdave on November 04, 2012, 02:40:50 PM
State of Montana Law:
Montana Code 45-8-115 Illegal posting
Montana Code 77-1-804 Denying access
Montana Code 87-3-142 Hunter Harassment
Post by: JLS on November 04, 2012, 02:41:20 PM
If there is no benefit to you to try to reconcile the issue (i.e. you get to hunt on private land also, or it simply keeps you in good standing with the local community), then simply go about your business of hunting the public land that you can legally access as you see fit. It's a control thing, and it doesn't hurt you to ask/tell them, but you're not obligated to either. I'd be darned sure if you go this route that you dot your i's and cross your t's with respect to access roads, property boundaries, etc. If the ranch hand gives you grief and is harassing you while hunting then you should report him for hunter harassmnent. Montana's law is very similar to Washington's in that they are both very good laws for protecting the hunter. You may want to take a camera that has video taping capability in case he does something really bizarre that would look good in court.
The state land board will not help you much in this situation. Also, the county commisionners can easily abandon the public road(s) in question, so you have to weigh your battles carefully. What county is this in? PM me if you want with that info.
Post by: JLS on November 04, 2012, 02:43:16 PM
http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-115.htm (http://data.opi.mt.gov/bills/mca/45/8/45-8-115.htm)
45-8-115. Illegal posting of state and federal land. (1) A person commits the offense of illegal posting of state or federal land if, without authorization, the person knowingly posts land that is under the ownership or control of the state or federal government to restrict access or use of state or federal land.
(2) A person convicted of illegal posting of state or federal land shall be fined an amount not to exceed $500 or be imprisoned in the county jail for a term not to exceed 6 months, or both.
The wording makes me think they let someone post land, or why would they put without authorization in the rule.
Because a lessee of state and/or federal lands can petition to have a parcel of land closed to hunting, or have a weapons restriction placed on it in the essence of public safety. Reasons for closing the land may be a grazing rotation, etc. In order to close the land off, the lessee then has to agree to open up to the public a parcel that is equal or greater to in size than the piece being closed.
Post by: smdave on November 04, 2012, 02:44:06 PM
If a lessee does mark state land and request notification, he must provide approved drop
boxes at a normal access points and display an approved sign from the State Department
of Natural Resources or information posted at access points where notification can be
given. The key word is notification. As long as you have the recreational use license
(Conservation License), you need no other permission.
Post by: JLS on November 04, 2012, 02:45:48 PM