Post by: Gutpile on October 25, 2012, 07:30:52 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 25, 2012, 07:33:10 AM
Post by: Huntbear on October 25, 2012, 07:43:56 AM
ABSOLUTELY NOT! and I hope that if someone does it on purpose that they are cursed with bad Karma for the rest of their hunting LIFE
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
Post by: Kc_Kracker on October 25, 2012, 07:45:13 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 25, 2012, 07:53:50 AM
Post by: RifleRidge on October 25, 2012, 08:06:34 AM
( 30 -50 ) that tend to lag behind when traveling, so please observe and be patient before shooting.
Making this illegal would help the cubs survive. :twocents: :twocents:
Post by: Gutpile on October 25, 2012, 08:13:54 AM
Post by: RifleRidge on October 25, 2012, 08:17:41 AM
Post by: Guy on October 25, 2012, 08:17:49 AM
At about 50 yards I noticed there was a cub following, maybe 100 yards behind mama. Mama bear had now closed to about 30 - 35 yards of me, and was headed straight towards me. I just stood up and said "howdy bear." She stopped, sniffed, woofed at me then took off for parts unknown, fast! The poor little cub came running up, looked around as if thinking "What the heck?" then followed Mama Bear into the deep canyon to my right.
I was real glad that I'd seen the cub before shooting.
Guy
Post by: littlemac on October 25, 2012, 08:17:56 AM
It makes no sense to me to orphan cubs to a certain death.
Post by: MtnMuley on October 25, 2012, 08:18:30 AM
Post by: mossy8352 on October 25, 2012, 08:23:45 AM
Post by: Atroxus on October 25, 2012, 08:30:41 AM
Post by: xXLojackXx on October 25, 2012, 12:37:21 PM
Post by: oldcamper on October 25, 2012, 02:12:25 PM
Post by: jackmaster on October 25, 2012, 02:16:45 PM
ABSOLUTELY NOT! and I hope that if someone does it on purpose that they are cursed with bad Karma for the rest of their hunting LIFE:yeah: i couldnt aggree more, anyone who knowingly kills a sow with cubs or a cat with kittens is pretty fricken low and doesnt deserve to hunt, we are sportsman we represent all of us and doing idiotic stuff like that looks horrible, just like that moron shootn that elk full of arrows up by darrington or some place3 that ended up on the news, well how well do you think it would go over with some poor cub crying over his mama getn killed and now that cub that isnt even a year old has to make it through a winter and also make it passed boars, well the chances of it making it is real slim....
Post by: xXLojackXx on October 25, 2012, 08:19:26 PM
Post by: bankwalker on October 25, 2012, 11:02:18 PM
I gave myself a 5 minute rule in areas where cubs can be out of sight. I don't need to kill a bear that bad to risk orphaning any cubs :bdid:
Post by: Jingles on October 25, 2012, 11:51:44 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on October 26, 2012, 12:09:36 AM
Lions are different, we have way to many of them. Without dogs, id shoot any female with kits. If our state manage lions correctly my views would be different. With dogs its male only for the most part, depends on the situation of course.
Post by: csaaphill on October 26, 2012, 12:48:02 AM
Several years ago I was on my favorite hill deer hunting. Heard some noise from my right side, turned and out popped this little cub. Well a bit bigger than a cub, but not much I passed.
I know the post is about Sows with cubs, but this one probably had a Sow near by so Passed.
I would hate to see it illegal though, shoot a Sow then out pops her cubs. :yike: Your a criminal then for a mistake. No that wouldn't be quite right either.
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 07:06:15 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 07:07:29 AM
Post by: Kc_Kracker on October 26, 2012, 07:56:13 AM
Post by: stickbuck on October 26, 2012, 08:17:05 AM
Post by: Gutpile on October 26, 2012, 08:18:11 AM
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 08:23:37 AM
Post by: littlemac on October 26, 2012, 08:30:39 AM
If you vote you should see results. I simply dont believe that many people would kill a sow knowing she had cubs. I believe some are just trying to liven things up.
Yep
Post by: Kc_Kracker on October 26, 2012, 08:34:40 AM
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 08:42:16 AM
Post by: littlemac on October 26, 2012, 09:01:40 AM
Pic was with a cheap cardboard camera but still fun to have the shot. I stood up and made some noise and he climbed down, never seen a man I imagine.
Wouldn't have shot him and he was probably 1 1/2 or so, maybe 150lbs. Rather take one like the second pic.
I guess patience is a virtue.
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 09:09:11 AM
Post by: ribka on October 26, 2012, 09:16:01 AM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 26, 2012, 09:20:00 AM
Absolutely pass. Passed on 3 bears this because too small. All over 150 lbs but was looking for something bigger.
......................do I remember that day !!!
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 09:34:14 AM
Post by: Goldeneye on October 26, 2012, 09:44:32 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 10:08:32 AM
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 10:15:36 AM
Post by: KenPCPilot on October 26, 2012, 10:33:54 AM
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 26, 2012, 10:37:18 AM
To knowingly pick off a sow who has a cub in tow is asinine. >:(
Post by: IBspoiled on October 26, 2012, 11:02:05 AM
Post by: shedcrazy on October 26, 2012, 11:15:45 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 26, 2012, 11:15:56 AM
Post by: ribka on October 26, 2012, 11:22:59 AM
Absolutely pass. Passed on 3 bears this because too small. All over 150 lbs but was looking for something bigger.
......................do I remember that day !!!
I remember differently. I wanted to shoot and you would not let me.
Campmeat you're just a wolf, bear hugging softy! :chuckle:
Post by: jackmaster on October 26, 2012, 12:12:55 PM
Way to many bleeding hearts on this post, I am not ashamed to say I voted yes!!!!!! I never have but I would never condemn anyone who did. sounds like some of you still sleep with your snugly teddy bear at night. Bear are nothing more than an overgrown rat, if you catch a rat in a trap how do you know that it doesn't have orphaned young?? Nothing morally wrong with that. Go ahead rip away !!!!!! :bash:to each his own dude, i think its wrong, i have killed alot of bear and i have seen alot of cubs with their mama and to be honest i would rather watch them than kill the mama, if you ever get a chance to just watch cubs you might just change your mind, is bear meat that important to cause a young cub to starve to death, and what i mean by cubs is one that hasnt reach a year old, one that hasnt made it through a winter yet, a friend of my dads shot a cub in some dark timber, he thought it was bigger but man it was small, well he didnt make a very good shot and when he got up to the cub it was sitting on his butt with his paws over his eyes and crying like a baby, he finished it off and my dad and him brought it home, my dads friend quit huntn that day and sold everything that he owned that had to do with huntn and this guy was a hardcore hunter, but to this day he hasnt ever hunted again. i just couldnt understand why anyone that was a sportsman would ever want to kill any mom with any kind of babies.... :twocents:
Post by: xXLojackXx on October 26, 2012, 12:53:12 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on October 26, 2012, 01:03:10 PM
Absolutely pass. Passed on 3 bears this because too small. All over 150 lbs but was looking for something bigger.
......................do I remember that day !!!
I remember differently. I wanted to shoot and you would not let me.
Campmeat you're just a wolf, bear hugging softy! :chuckle:
Oh crap, now everybody really knows what I'm like...........sob,sob !!
Post by: Buckmark on October 26, 2012, 01:10:48 PM
*
What if when wolf hunting becomes legal here in Wa, will people still think the same way.
Both bears and wolves are predators and feed on deer, elk etc. So the elimination or reduction of predators helps our overall herd health.
*
So wolf hunting you see a wolf with pups trailing, do you drop her like 8th grade french?? :dunno:
(Yes, yes i did bring the "W" word into this topic).
*
ps: No i don't shoot sows with known cubs.
Post by: pianoman9701 on October 26, 2012, 01:22:26 PM
So here is a hypothetical thought or twist on this topic.
*
What if when wolf hunting becomes legal here in Wa, will people still think the same way.
Both bears and wolves are predators and feed on deer, elk etc. So the elimination or reduction of predators helps our overall herd health.
*
So wolf hunting you see a wolf with pups trailing, do you drop her like 8th grade french?? :dunno:
(Yes, yes i did bring the "W" word into this topic).
*
ps: No i don't shoot sows with known cubs.
Personally, I'm not shooting baby anything. No calves, no pups, no cubs, no fawns, no kittens. Not gonna happen. My own set of rules for me without the expectation of anyone else adopting them. My :twocents:
Post by: firefighter4607 on October 26, 2012, 01:28:28 PM
So wolf hunting you see a wolf with pups trailing, do you drop her like 8th grade french?? :dunno:
(Yes, yes i did bring the "W" word into this topic).
I would bet they would use similar wording as they have for cougars, "It is unlawful to kill or possess spotted cougar kittens (Usually <80lbs.) or adult cougars accompained by spotted kittens."
Even bears they say "Hunters are urged to not shoot a sow with cubs. Please watch the bear before shooting to see if there is cubs with it."
I have never been bear hunting but it would be hard to watch a bear for a while until I knew for sure if it had cubs or not. If the bear had cubs in tow then I wouldn't shoot. It would be liking having a doe tag and shooting a doe with a fawn. :bs:
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 26, 2012, 01:31:30 PM
Cougar, it's unlawful to whack one with spotted kittens in tow.
So, if it's unlawful to whack one predator with children in tow, why is it only urged not to on another.
Interesting............
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 01:34:23 PM
Post by: Buckmark on October 26, 2012, 01:42:45 PM
*
So she has 2 pups with her, 1 shot and you may have removed 3 apex predators and saved countless numbers of deer etc....
*
For example i see nowwhere in Idaho's wolf regs with any regard to pups..
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 01:44:13 PM
Quote
So, here's a question for thought. My cow elk I shot this year in September had three 1-2 yr old calves with it. They weren't spotted but not full grown either but they werent nursing anymore . So I'm assuming the people who wouldn't shoot a sow with 1+ year Old cubs wouldn't shoot a cow elk with 2 year old calves even though they aren't nursing?? I passed on a sow with BIG cubs this year, only to go back the next weekend and see those cubs on their own. Next time that situation comes about Momma is going down.I haven't shot a cow or a doe in nearly 35 years of hunting. Does that answer that question honestly.
Post by: motg9_6 on October 26, 2012, 01:44:52 PM
its not my job to decide when that mother ias done doing her job with that cub, if she hasnt kicked him to the curb yet theres probably a reason, just because he is old enough to take care of himself, doesnt mean he can yet, maybe hes slow, dumb, whatever, i was not aware any of us were actual Bear Mothers and knew this stuff :chuckle: a cub is a cub, if its following momma nope i wouldnt shoot it.sorrty but if hes slow dumb or whatever hes probably not going to make it anyways. just saying mother nature soley depends on survival of the fittest.
i marked yes because i have seen sows with cubs following that should not have been on the tit. havent done it but if the circustances were correct i would think about it.
Post by: IBspoiled on October 26, 2012, 01:45:46 PM
I am a little confused on this issue. You all mostly say no no never on a sow with cubs. But lets turn it around. Most of us hunt deer and elk mostly and those are our prized hunting seasons. So what do you all think of killing cows and doe's in the archery season? Most of those cows and doe's have just given birth in April/May/June and their young are still nursing. I have seen year old calves still nursing a cow in the spring. And then you have to ask yourself what about late season cow tags, when you know those cows are bred? Just a thought.
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 01:50:13 PM
Whole different subject, but calves and does are herd animals and often get fostered or adopted and are capable of self reliance at that time.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 26, 2012, 02:04:06 PM
I also have no issues if someone wanted to legally shoot a cub.
This being said.. I admit to having a distaste for bears because I feel they are seriously overpopulated in many areas I hunt and in those areas I feel like any dead bear is a good bear... I just wished I cared to hunt them....because they definitely need thinning in many areas.
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 26, 2012, 02:08:53 PM
My antlerless points in WA will be there forever.
Post by: motg9_6 on October 26, 2012, 02:16:30 PM
You saw my post right?THIS IS THE MOST REDICOULUS THING EVER beef cows wont even foster calves unless you put their calves hide on the new one
Whole different subject, but calves and does are herd animals and often get fostered or adopted and are capable of self reliance at that time.
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 26, 2012, 02:37:51 PM
His reference to calves was not pointed toward the angus variety. :chuckle:You saw my post right?THIS IS THE MOST REDICOULUS THING EVER beef cows wont even foster calves unless you put their calves hide on the new one
Whole different subject, but calves and does are herd animals and often get fostered or adopted and are capable of self reliance at that time.
Post by: bankwalker on October 26, 2012, 03:15:56 PM
Thank you for your rule Bankwalker. Thats something I touched on last year with a pic of a pig of a sow. All of a sudden little babs showed up. Accidents happen, but if people just calm their jets a minute, many could be avoided. INCLUDING woman in blue coats.
Thanks Boneaddict
I called in a decent amount of bears last year. And seen 13 this season. I noticed very quickly that cubs are very rarely close to mama. The sows I've seen out in open clear cuts or high mountain slopes obviously had cubs within view. And I wouldn't hesitate to shoot in those situations. But low land wooded areas my rule stands and that's for anyone hunting with me.
My uncle accidentally shot a sow 3 seasons ago. It dropped dead in it's tracks. 1 hour later finally making their way to the dead bear and 2 cubs were sitting with their dead mom. They were maybe 1 year old cubs. Right or not the 2 other guys shot and tagged the cubs
Post by: IBspoiled on October 26, 2012, 03:17:08 PM
ABSOLUTELY NOT! and I hope that if someone does it on purpose that they are cursed with bad Karma for the rest of their hunting LIFE
Yes I saw your post about not shooting cows or doe's. So is this your same stance towards people who do? I'm not trying to argue I am just thinking most hunters would take a cow or doe to fill a freezer. I didn't realize most people on here were against it.
I don't hunt/kill bears because they don't really interest me from a meat nor hunting standpoint. I probably never will kill a bear despite the fact that I have many opportunities each season. That being said, all the research I have found (aside from animal rights propaganda like the Humane Society) say's a normal healthy cub can survive if the mother is killed in the fall. If this is indeed a fact. I don't see a moral/ethical issues with taking the sow.
I also have no issues if someone wanted to legally shoot a cub.
This being said.. I admit to having a distaste for bears because I feel they are seriously overpopulated in many areas I hunt and in those areas I feel like any dead bear is a good bear... I just wished I cared to hunt them....because they definitely need thinning in many areas.
I being a girl hunter, have bear fears (along with cougars) and I think along the same lines as this. I have never shot a bear, but I think the way our state manages them without the use of hounds anymore has added to their numbers and I think they could use a little thinning.
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 03:22:53 PM
I commend the guys for making right when they killed momma by accident (yes accidents do happen to great people) and tagged the cubs as well. Being humane is good.
Post by: Buckmark on October 26, 2012, 04:40:36 PM
*
So let me throw this out, kinda the same as my wolf scenario.
Coyotes, year round season. Female with pups are your shooting her?
It is perfectly legal with no mention of being "urged" not to....
Post by: boneaddict on October 26, 2012, 05:33:45 PM
Post by: Austrian Hunter on October 26, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on October 26, 2012, 05:48:46 PM
Post by: IBspoiled on October 26, 2012, 06:09:59 PM
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 07:49:17 PM
Post by: Atroxus on October 26, 2012, 08:02:19 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on October 26, 2012, 08:03:06 PM
You have stated your position, personally. I have no issues with your personal choice. In fact, more power to you if that's what you choose to do.
I too have stated my position, personally. I will never shoot a doe and I will never again shoot a cow elk. That is my personal choice. I love game meat but it just is not that important to me to have a freezer full of it.
Post by: Ripper on October 26, 2012, 08:09:27 PM
Post by: Buckmark on October 26, 2012, 08:51:13 PM
I am curious if folks realize the difference between a pack...a herd and a solitary animal. And do folks realize the role the male takes in raising bear cubs? Its interesting the comparisons people are trying to bring up to justify shooting a sow with babies.Not sure if this is directed at me, and not trying to start a debate, but what difference does it make?
Predators kill ungulates, bears kill deer and elk, fawns etc
Cougars kill as solitary animals...
Covey of birds?
A pack will kill ungulates (pack of wolves) , packs kill as a group for the good of the pack.
Herd animals are social groups, ungulates.. deer, elk, bovines, sheep etc
A solitary boar will kill cubs, not have a thing to do with raising them...
Humans have a conscience animals do not, they kill to survive. We can choose to or not too, animals do not.
A pack of coyotes could care less if your pheasants are just babies.
I am not pushing my morales or opinion onto other people, but i am also not judging either.
I "Choose" to not kill sows with cubs, but to tell other people they are evil, or should burn in hell, wish bad karma on them is being very judgemental in my opinion...
Post by: Houndhunter on October 26, 2012, 11:52:22 PM
Post by: Dan-o on October 27, 2012, 12:00:44 AM
You can't compare predators to prey, they are both totally different in the way they live their lives. Shooting a cow with calves is way different than shooting a sow with young cubs imo. Just saying when people try to compare or reference that, you really aren't proving or making a point.
I'm just curious what the difference is between leaving an orphaned fawn to die and leaving an orphaned cub to die? Or am I not understanding?
Post by: Houndhunter on October 27, 2012, 12:08:54 AM
Post by: Kioti on October 27, 2012, 06:50:39 AM
Post by: IBspoiled on October 27, 2012, 08:07:49 AM
I put in for doe tags and cow tags every year. I love game meat, and I hate buying tasteless beef from the store. I have shot does that may have had fawns and cows that may have had calves. I don't know what it is with people that think they are holier than thou for stating they wouldn't take this animal because of this but would take that animal because of that. I personally think that at least half the people on this site just state "opinions" because it's what other people want to hear. Man up and speak your own mind! some people may not agree but who cares. Your opinion is supposed to be your true opinion! I shoot does when legal, I shoot cows when legal, and I shoot bears when legal. If wolves were legal and I saw one I'd shoot it, pups or not just to get the fawn/calf killers taken out. Same with yotes, I'd shoot a female with pups then shoot the pups! As for sows with cubs, like I've stated before, I wouldn't knowingly shoot a sow with 1st year cubs but I'd have no problem with 2nd year cubs.
Ripper, I think you have it correct. I don't think demonizing people for doing what is within the laws of hunting is what we as hunters should be doing.
Wife
Post by: motg9_6 on October 27, 2012, 08:41:08 AM
HA that one always gets me fired up.
Ive killled lots of cows (elk) no does and would not hesitate to shoot a sow with cubs if they appreared decent size. Humans are at the top of the food chain, you wont see a bear cougar coyote or wolf descriminate baby or no baby so i wont either.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 27, 2012, 11:46:27 AM
Some of the repsonses on this topic are eye opening, especially after reading responses of other topics throughout out the years.
*
So let me throw this out, kinda the same as my wolf scenario.
Coyotes, year round season. Female with pups are your shooting her?
It is perfectly legal with no mention of being "urged" not to....
I will shoot any coyote on sight...including the pups.
Post by: brackens on October 27, 2012, 09:04:16 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 27, 2012, 11:08:21 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 27, 2012, 11:11:13 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 27, 2012, 11:14:03 PM
Post by: IBspoiled on October 28, 2012, 12:15:02 PM
Which part do you agree with in that post IBSPOILED, the point where you are holier than though if you speak your mind, or the part where you should man up and speak your mind? :chuckle:
Wow bone, I am somewhat dismayed at how you have treated others and what you have said regarding this issue. I have always respected you and your opinions on this forum and think that mostly you are middle of the road and fair with most others on here. What I was saying was that yes I agree hunters shouldn't act holier than thou because they choose to NOT do something that others would do as long as it was within the legal laws of hunting. If you don't agree that people should shoot a sow with cubs than maybe we need to work to change the laws in WA. But then from what others have said it is sometimes hard to determine if it is a sow with cubs at the time. As sportsmen/women I thought we were suppose to support each other. I only brought up the other issue's because I feel they are similar and wanted others opinions in that area. I have been confronted by other hunters regarding putting out salt for our camera's and they STRONGLY shared their opinion with us that it was wrong. It is legal so they can have their strong opinion, but again as sportsmen/women I don't think we should be attacking each other on such issues. And yes I also agree that you should be able to man/woman up and share your opinion, without the attacks and demonizing.
Wife :hello:
Post by: dscubame on October 28, 2012, 12:34:03 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 28, 2012, 04:34:48 PM
Post by: boneaddict on October 28, 2012, 04:37:48 PM
Not considering self defense or accidents, though for the most part somewhere in there, you might have been able to prevent that as well. I am discussing seeing a momma bear with babies and popping her.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on October 28, 2012, 05:01:38 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 28, 2012, 05:12:01 PM
Post by: IBspoiled on October 29, 2012, 08:10:28 AM
I was being funny, or trying to be IBspoiled(wife). By the way, we need to get you signed up, membership is cheap. :) I may be fairly short as I have about 60 seconds here and there to touch base here. I read Rippers post then read you agreed to it. I thought it was a good time to point out what I thought was funny. Maybe that was mean. I was going to say I thought he was drunk, but that probably would have been meaner. Gotta go. I'm sure I rile your feathers with that one. :chuckle:
Thanks Bone, it is hard to determine tone from messages on a forum. You'll be happy to know that I don't generally buy a bear tag. I have no interest in bears, other than I would like to see them thinned out in our area a bit. I don't like running into them while out on my horse or hiking. :yike: I did sneak up on 2 cubs (they were probably year old cubs, the size of a large dog) my first year archery hunting. I thought they were elk coming my way, I got set up and out popped these two bears. I could still hear the momma bear tearing a choke cherry tree apart. I wouldn't have hesitated taking momma in this situation or one of the cubs, I feel they were big enough to be on their own, and I've seen lots of bears posted on here that were smaller than these cubs. They were about 40 yards from me and headed right at me. I tried my hardest to melt into a tree. My husband came from behind me and snuck up to me. Both bears turned and headed the other way and we backed out casually. I don't think I've ever shook so much! :yike: Yep, I'm scared of bears! :yeah:
Post by: Ripper on October 29, 2012, 08:52:45 AM
Quote
I was going to say I thought he was drunk, but that probably would have been meaner.:chuckle: It's ok bone, you can be mean if you want, I won't be hurt! I can take it and laugh about it. It appears that we share the same opinion, shooting a sow with "baby" cubs knowingly is unsportsmanlike. I wouldn't do it. On another note, I love your work. I wish I had your skills with a camera. Have you ever put out a calender with just bear cubs? That would be cute and probably sell like crazy!
Post by: MtnMuley on October 29, 2012, 04:19:36 PM
And by the way, if you shoot a momma bear with known baby cubs, I will think very lowly, lowest of low. Piece of *censored* even would have higher value than that individual.:lol4:
I couldn't agree more. There's always some these days that are willing to argue and buck the norm, but there's not a sole I associate with that'd ever think about shooting a sow with known cubs near. :)
Post by: MountainWalk on October 31, 2012, 12:10:54 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 31, 2012, 12:37:39 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2012, 06:23:03 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on October 31, 2012, 08:17:43 AM
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2012, 08:39:52 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 31, 2012, 10:20:12 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 31, 2012, 02:05:00 PM
I have a question. How long do those little buggers stay with momma? I have seen cubs with mom that looked way too big to be following her around and I have seen cubs without mom that looked too small.
My question. Do they stay with her clear through winter every year (den up with her)? Or do they start slowly leaving in the fall? Just never really paid attention I guess.
Everything I have seen suggests approximately 18 months on average....but then there are cases of three and four years.
Post by: hoytem on October 31, 2012, 03:00:33 PM
Post by: buck man on October 31, 2012, 03:37:31 PM
I have a question. How long do those little buggers stay with momma? I have seen cubs with mom that looked way too big to be following her around and I have seen cubs without mom that looked too small.
My question. Do they stay with her clear through winter every year (den up with her)? Or do they start slowly leaving in the fall? Just never really paid attention I guess.
Everything I have seen suggests approximately 18 months on average....but then there are cases of three and four years.
That would be correct DB, but for only black bears. Grizzly and polar bears will keep cubs up to 2 1/2 years.
I find this topic quite interesting. I have killed 29 bears and only TWO were sows. Never been a problem to pass up sows with cubs....cause there all boars. :chuckle:
Post by: MtnMuley on October 31, 2012, 04:04:05 PM
I have a question. How long do those little buggers stay with momma? I have seen cubs with mom that looked way too big to be following her around and I have seen cubs without mom that looked too small.
My question. Do they stay with her clear through winter every year (den up with her)? Or do they start slowly leaving in the fall? Just never really paid attention I guess.
Everything I have seen suggests approximately 18 months on average....but then there are cases of three and four years.
So when I see a sow with cubs that are 80-90 lbs they are likley 18 months or so (previous spring cubs)?
There's a big blonde sow I've watched and photographed over the years, that has went through several sets of cubs. We deamed her the "Golden Emperess" and I've seen her with a couple tiny cubs one year, and with the same cubs the next fall, only much larger. Two times with her this has been the case. Once with twins and once with triplets. The twins were both light brown with white patches on their chests and the triplets were all dark brown with no white patches. Thus my conclusion is they "can"pack the same cubs around for at least two fall seasons.
Post by: boneaddict on October 31, 2012, 04:05:33 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on October 31, 2012, 09:48:28 PM
good info. I have never really been interested in shooting bears. Normally I just look at them. I killed a small boar 10 years ago cause of his color and shot at a very large boar 3 years ago. Guess I have never really given much thought to a sow with cubs cause I really only want to shoot a bear if "he" is real big. The last 3 years have really got my wheels turning though. Seeing way more bears where we deer hunt and way less deer. So we might need to pick out a few and shoot them this year. One problem I noticed is most of the bears we saw were sows with good size cubs. One had 3 big ones and the other had 2 big ones.
:yeah:
If there is anything that will motivate me to shoot a bear it's what you are saying above. In a few areas that I hunt I think they are seriously impacting the fawn/calf crop.
Post by: Gutpile on November 05, 2012, 06:17:36 AM
Now just because some of you love hypotheticals;
In my original post I was not talking about anything other than purposely shooting a sow with cubs. Not accidentally but purposely.
P.S.
Just to reiterate. Bears are NOT deer. Some of you think breeding biology of bears and deer is somehow similar, it's not. :dunno:
Post by: billythekidrock on November 05, 2012, 06:22:45 AM
The most disturbing thing that I read here is that a lot of you "shooters" dont know $hit about bear biology. They are not deer, they are not coyotes or beef cows, they are not phucking wolves. All above mentioned animals offspring are ready to go within the first year. Bears are not. Bears breed every TWO years. They keep the young for a year and a half and boot them prior to or during the breeding season. Breeding season is in the summer. If the cubs are with momma in the fall they are PROBABLY first year cubs. Not always but probably. Of course there are exceptions but those are just the facts. If you kill a sow with cubs you have just killed 3 bears with one bullet. I myself think its pretty damn selfish and cant understand it. You folks who would shoot are the reason we have so many problems with non hunting legislation.
Now just because some of you love hypotheticals;
In my original post I was not talking about anything other than purposely shooting a sow with cubs. Not accidentally but purposely.
P.S.
Just to reiterate. Bears are NOT deer. Some of you think breeding biology of bears and deer is somehow similar, it's not. :dunno:
:yeah:
Post by: Machias on November 05, 2012, 11:10:45 AM
The most disturbing thing that I read here is that a lot of you "shooters" dont know $hit about bear biology. They are not deer, they are not coyotes or beef cows, they are not phucking wolves. All above mentioned animals offspring are ready to go within the first year. Bears are not. Bears breed every TWO years. They keep the young for a year and a half and boot them prior to or during the breeding season. Breeding season is in the summer. If the cubs are with momma in the fall they are PROBABLY first year cubs. Not always but probably. Of course there are exceptions but those are just the facts. If you kill a sow with cubs you have just killed 3 bears with one bullet. I myself think its pretty damn selfish and cant understand it. You folks who would shoot are the reason we have so many problems with non hunting legislation.
Now just because some of you love hypotheticals;
In my original post I was not talking about anything other than purposely shooting a sow with cubs. Not accidentally but purposely.
P.S.
Just to reiterate. Bears are NOT deer. Some of you think breeding biology of bears and deer is somehow similar, it's not. :dunno:
Big time! :yeah:
Post by: jackmaster on November 05, 2012, 12:34:23 PM
The most disturbing thing that I read here is that a lot of you "shooters" dont know $hit about bear biology. They are not deer, they are not coyotes or beef cows, they are not phucking wolves. All above mentioned animals offspring are ready to go within the first year. Bears are not. Bears breed every TWO years. They keep the young for a year and a half and boot them prior to or during the breeding season. Breeding season is in the summer. If the cubs are with momma in the fall they are PROBABLY first year cubs. Not always but probably. Of course there are exceptions but those are just the facts. If you kill a sow with cubs you have just killed 3 bears with one bullet. I myself think its pretty damn selfish and cant understand it. You folks who would shoot are the reason we have so many problems with non hunting legislation.
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah: best response yet
Now just because some of you love hypotheticals;
In my original post I was not talking about anything other than purposely shooting a sow with cubs. Not accidentally but purposely.
P.S.
Just to reiterate. Bears are NOT deer. Some of you think breeding biology of bears and deer is somehow similar, it's not. :dunno:
Big time! :yeah:
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 05, 2012, 08:56:31 PM
The most disturbing thing that I read here is that a lot of you "shooters" dont know $hit about bear biology. They are not deer, they are not coyotes or beef cows, they are not phucking wolves. All above mentioned animals offspring are ready to go within the first year. Bears are not. Bears breed every TWO years. They keep the young for a year and a half and boot them prior to or during the breeding season. Breeding season is in the summer. If the cubs are with momma in the fall they are PROBABLY first year cubs. Not always but probably. Of course there are exceptions but those are just the facts. If you kill a sow with cubs you have just killed 3 bears with one bullet. I myself think its pretty damn selfish and cant understand it. You folks who would shoot are the reason we have so many problems with non hunting legislation.
Now just because some of you love hypotheticals;
In my original post I was not talking about anything other than purposely shooting a sow with cubs. Not accidentally but purposely.
P.S.
Just to reiterate. Bears are NOT deer. Some of you think breeding biology of bears and deer is somehow similar, it's not. :dunno:
Copy all on the bear biology and how long the cubs live with mom... But where is the science that says killing a fall Sow is killing the cubs too? Everything I find say's just the opposite.
Post by: Gutpile on November 06, 2012, 04:47:48 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 06, 2012, 01:48:16 PM
I'll start by saying I found an orphaned cub one time during a spring hunt in an area where someone I knew shot a sow with cubs. This dummy was the most unwary little bear I've ever seen. Many times I ran into it and we took turns sneaking on it. He was oblivious and if he survived that season it would have been a miracle. Anyways I did a quick google and read 2 studies which pretty much agree that you are correct. Apparently at 5 months they can survive. This in no way changes how I feel about purposely shooting a sow with cubs. I love bear hunting andI want those cubs to get the best possible chance there is. I'll also leave you with this thought. Aside from studies that were done 30 years ago do you think it's responsible to orphan cubs in todays society when *censored*s jump at any chance to restrict hunting? I still say it's completely irresponsible and selfish. Frankly I don't fully trust these studies I read anyways there are too many unanswered questions. I can find studies that say the world will end this year. That there is global warming and that there isn't. That cow flatulence is eating a hole in the ozone so I need to be a vegetarian. So maybe they are capable, maybe they arent but what I do know is that if we start orphaning cubs and this starts hitting the news you can say bye bye to bear hunting or maybe they'll just make it illegal and turn you into a criminal if you accidentally shoot one.
As we speak I know the general location of a cub that was orphaned in the spring. I have been keeping an eye on him and see him almost every time I go into the area. Like you, I have noticed that he is very unwary and certainly easy pickings for anything that wanted to take him out. That being said he is certainly a healthy looking little guy.
Most of the studies I have read say 10 months is when an orphaned cub should be able to survive unders most circumstances. I would have to agree that it's probably best practice to not shoot a sow with a cub.
Like I have said earlier I am not a bear hunter. I mainly want to ensure that the facts are straight before we throw our fellow hunters under the bus just because they have a different view or go against tradition.
What I don't like is segregating members of the hunting community for something that is legal and may or may not (apparently no one knows) be ok for wildlife (in most cases I err on the side of less restricitons on hunters until proven otherwise). I think by ostracizing fellow hunters who are doing things legally we are providing ammunition for the Animal Rights activitst to take rights away from hunters. Another example of this scenario is the baiting issue..there is a bunch of opinions but ultimatley what you end up with is hunters standing shoulder to shoulder with animal rights activist to take away hunter rights and add additional unecessary restrictions.
Post by: combs338 on November 06, 2012, 01:55:19 PM
I'll start by saying I found an orphaned cub one time during a spring hunt in an area where someone I knew shot a sow with cubs. This dummy was the most unwary little bear I've ever seen. Many times I ran into it and we took turns sneaking on it. He was oblivious and if he survived that season it would have been a miracle. Anyways I did a quick google and read 2 studies which pretty much agree that you are correct. Apparently at 5 months they can survive. This in no way changes how I feel about purposely shooting a sow with cubs. I love bear hunting andI want those cubs to get the best possible chance there is. I'll also leave you with this thought. Aside from studies that were done 30 years ago do you think it's responsible to orphan cubs in todays society when *censored*s jump at any chance to restrict hunting? I still say it's completely irresponsible and selfish. Frankly I don't fully trust these studies I read anyways there are too many unanswered questions. I can find studies that say the world will end this year. That there is global warming and that there isn't. That cow flatulence is eating a hole in the ozone so I need to be a vegetarian. So maybe they are capable, maybe they arent but what I do know is that if we start orphaning cubs and this starts hitting the news you can say bye bye to bear hunting or maybe they'll just make it illegal and turn you into a criminal if you accidentally shoot one.
As we speak I know the general location of a cub that was orphaned in the spring. I have been keeping an eye on him and see him almost every time I go into the area. Like you I have noticed that he is very unwary and certainly easy pickings for anything that wanted to take him out. That being said he is certainly a healthy looking little guy.
Most of the studies I have read say 10 months is when an orphaned cub should be able to survive unders most circumstances. I would have to agree that it is probably best practice to not shoot a sow being a cub.
Like I have said earlier I am not a bear hunter. I mainly want to ensure that the facts are straight before we throw our fellow hunters under the bus just because they have a different view or go against tradition.
What I don't like is segregating members of the hunting community for something that is legal and may or may not (apparently no one knows) be ok for wildlife (in most cases I err on the side of less restricitons on hunters until proven otherwise). I think by ostracizing fellow hunters who are doing things legally we are providing ammunition for the Animal Rights activitst to take rights away from hunters. Another example of this scenario is the baiting issue..there is a bunch of opinions but ultimatley what you end up with is hunters standing shoulder to shoulder with animal rights activist to take away hunter right add additional unecessary restrictions.
I agree with your point 100% DB.
Post by: mdbuck5x5 on November 07, 2012, 07:56:28 PM
ABSOLUTELY NOT! and I hope that if someone does it on purpose that they are cursed with bad Karma for the rest of their hunting LIFE
:yeah: Exactly!
Post by: boneaddict on November 08, 2012, 07:16:40 AM
Quote
Like I have said earlier I am not a bear hunter. I mainly want to ensure that the facts are straight before we throw our fellow hunters under the bus just because they have a different view or go against tradition.
I won't only throw SWC shooters under the bus, I'll back it up and park it on you. then spin the tires.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 08, 2012, 08:11:37 AM
QuoteLike I have said earlier I am not a bear hunter. I mainly want to ensure that the facts are straight before we throw our fellow hunters under the bus just because they have a different view or go against tradition.
I won't only throw SWC shooters under the bus, I'll back it up and park it on you. then spin the tires.
Spoken like a true extremist. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on November 08, 2012, 08:15:41 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 08, 2012, 08:29:58 AM
Post by: boneaddict on November 08, 2012, 11:28:23 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on November 08, 2012, 09:14:23 PM