Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: bowjunkie on October 29, 2012, 01:38:55 PM
-
so going out on my first bird hunt with a friend of a friend i have a model 1200 winchester steel safe barrel up to 3inch mag it says full on my barrel i beleive that it means my barrell is a full choke cant do anything about that it has a long barrell on it should have mesured may help but take my word for it it is a long barrell what kind of shell should i use for my duck hunting this weekend i know to use steel
-
I'd probably go with a small size since you're shooting a full choke. I'd say 2 3/4 inch shells, with #4 shot.
-
Blackcloud by the duckcamander!
-
I'd probably go with a small size since you're shooting a full choke. I'd say 2 3/4 inch shells, with #4 shot.
:yeah:
The bigger the shot the more the pattern will blow out with a full choke. You could try bismuth but it’s pricey. Stay away from Blackcloud, it does not work well out of tight chokes.
-
If you have a steel safe barrel you could use 3" mags for long range shooting and 2 3/4 over decoys. #4 shot is just fine, for geese use #2 or BB's if legal.
Hope you bagged some.
-
Honestly.... Pellet size has very little to do with the death of a duck.
In my most honest Opinion, Just buy the cheapset Steel shot you can find!
Since you're a newbie..... Forgive me, I don't mean to insult, BUT...
Your better off taking twice as many "Cheap" loads as half as many "Expensive" loads.
Some times it's very hard to judge distance on incoming flocks, plus, they range in size from Teal to Canvasbacks, and you may not think they're moving as fast as they actually are.
So, expect to miss a few times.
In fact, most new hunters I've hunted with, took they're first ducks on the 3rd shot. Including myself. lol.
All that aside, Size of ducks, and range should determine your loads.
Go with 3" mags if you can.
You will get just a few more pellets per shot, and a little bit more velocity, than compared to a 2 3/4" shell.
If you're up close and personel.... i.e. over the top of decoys, #4 are good. You get more smaller pellets, and have a denser spread. Or less "Gaps" in the pattern.
And they won't do as much damage to the meat upclose.
However, if they wont come in close.... i.e. outside the decoy spread, or pass shooting a river, or sitting in a field, the #2 will work great because they are slightly larger pellets, and will carry further with the kinetic enery of the load. So at distances, if you manage to hit the bird with just .... say 1-10 pellets, then the larger the better. Just like a bullet.
#1 or BB are EVEN bigger! and will kill ducks just fine.
And you may want a couple in your bag if you get a chance at some HUGE birds.... Like Geese. But be warned... if you hit a green head up close with BB's... you wont have much to clean.
Don't bother with any thing larger than BB.... like F shot, or T shot, or BBB, or BBBB.... these loads are litterally just small Buck shot. I think F shot has something like 35 pellets, as opposed to 100-200 for #2-#4 (don't quote me on the pellet count)
So to somerize.... I would recomend 3" #2's.... or whatever is cheapest.
Those Black Cloud Shells are great at Stopping power, but they buzz saw right through your meat. Litterally! They look like someone took a hack saw to the breast meat.
Just remember.... it's not WHAT you hit 'em with, it's WHERE.
Shoot 'em in the head, and you'll only need a BB gun or sling shot. ;o)
-
usually if its marked full and safe for steel you will be fine with #2 or even BB. of course you never really know until you pattern your gun with the loads you will be using. generally its only the really big shot sizes (BBB or T or larger) that are problematic for some full chokes and barrels.
I have patterned some older "steel safe" full choked guns and found out that with lead shot, the choke is really more like a modified than full. which means the factories are compensating for steel loads which are faster and keep a tighter pattern than lead.
-
And.... coincedently.... I use a PatternMaster choke tube. Which is equivalent to a Super-Extra-Full Choke.
Full choke is the best Duck Choke you can ask for.
And no.... you wont have much problems with shooting Steel out of you Winchester 1200.
For god's sake.
That gun is the direct descendant of the Model 12. Which is the best Duck gun ever made (statistically).
Hell, my Dad still drills Ducks on the wing at 40-60 yds with his old Model 12, which has a Full choke, that has not "Opened up" due to steel shot after YEARS and thousands of rounds.
Just my :twocents:
-
That gun is the direct descendant of the Model 12. Which is the best Duck gun ever made (statistically).
What stats are you basing that off of :dunno: Just wondering :dunno:
-
Honestly.... Pellet size has very little to do with the death of a duck.
In my most honest Opinion, Just buy the cheapset Steel shot you can find!
Since you're a newbie..... Forgive me, I don't mean to insult, BUT...
Your better off taking twice as many "Cheap" loads as half as many "Expensive" loads.
:yeah: Good advice. People have been arguing about the best shot size since shotshells were invented. No reason to spend a lot on fancy shells that cost three times as much when the cheaper ones work just as well. You gotta hit the bird though otherwise nothing is going to work.
-
Resulting overall winner=((Number of guns in the field)x(years in service)x(effectiveness score in the field))all multiplied by(overall kill count est.)
Don't get me wrong.... The Model 12 doesn't hold a candle to guns of Today. But the stats are overwhelming if given length of service equation above.
-
Honestly.... Pellet size has very little to do with the death of a duck.
In my most honest Opinion, Just buy the cheapset Steel shot you can find!
Shoot 'em in the head, and you'll only need a BB gun or sling shot. ;o)
actually pellet size has everything to do with a death of a duck. and it should be paid very close attention to. it determines everything from your pattern count and how much down range energy you have to how much tissue damage and bone breakage you create ultimately killing your target.
of course this has been discussed ad nauseum.
pellet size and expensive vs cheap shells has nothing to do with each other.
if the same load is used- #4's out of a $12 box do more or less the same thing as from a$20 dollar box.
shooting them in the head only works if you shoot in front of them. if you aim for the head you will miss every time or hit the arse.
-
Pellet size is no matter.....
Example: Mass X Velocity = Knock down force, or (ft. lbs.)/Sq. in.
If #2 pellets are heavier, but have less quantity.
#4 pellets are lighter, but have more quantity.
Both loads shoot apx. 1 oz. of steel total.
They are similar in Knock down power per square foot of coverage on the target.
-
Pellet size is no matter.....
Example: Mass X Velocity = Knock down force, or (ft. lbs.)/Sq. in.
If #2 pellets are heavier, but have less quantity.
#4 pellets are lighter, but have more quantity.
Both loads shoot apx. 1 oz. of steel total.
They are similar in Knock down power per square foot of coverage on the target.
Mass x velocity equals momentum, not knock down force and yes, pellet size matters. It matters a lot.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,73776.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,73776.0.html)
-
Bigger shot = More penetration
-
Pellet size is no matter.....
Example: Mass X Velocity = Knock down force, or (ft. lbs.)/Sq. in.
If #2 pellets are heavier, but have less quantity.
#4 pellets are lighter, but have more quantity.
Both loads shoot apx. 1 oz. of steel total.
They are similar in Knock down power per square foot of coverage on the target.
thats great but you will have more pellets running out of energy sooner with #4.
at longer distances your #4's will lose energy and spread out opening great big holes in your pattern. if all your doing is shooting ducks over the decoys at 25 yards, with thier chests facing you as their toes dangle in the water I will concede and say shot size doesn't matter. you could kill geese with #7 steel at that distance.
-
What would you rather shoot an elk with at 500 yards. Two .204 bullets (small and fast) or one .30-06 bullet (slower but bigger) :dunno:
-
What would you rather shoot an elk with at 500 yards. Two .204 bullets (small and fast) or one .30-06 bullet (slower but bigger) :dunno:
:yeah:
-
What would you rather shoot an elk with at 500 yards. Two .204 bullets (small and fast) or one .30-06 bullet (slower but bigger) :dunno:
Well, I'd rather hit him in the noggin with both the .204s than sail the .30-06 over his shoulder. That's really where it get complicated with shotshells, it's not just energy but also the pattern and of course the shooter.
I think too many beginning duck hunters blame the load and not their shooting ability. Nothing is going to drop a bird at 100-200 yards but I see guys trying that all the time...
-
What would you rather shoot an elk with at 500 yards. Two .204 bullets (small and fast) or one .30-06 bullet (slower but bigger) :dunno:
Well, I'd rather hit him in the noggin with both the .204s than sail the .30-06 over his shoulder. That's really where it get complicated with shotshells, it's not just energy but also the pattern and of course the shooter.
If you sail a 30-06 over, then you need to go to the range. I could say that I would rather hit a elk in the heart with the 06 then miss with a .204? Are you saying that the 06 is not accurate enough, because they can drop elk past 1000.
-
That's really where it get complicated with shotshells, it's not just energy but also the pattern and of course the shooter.
and when everything else is equal -energy and pattern bring us back to the shot size, wether or not the shooter can get the pattern in the right place. it doesn't matter if you hit or miss the pellets are still going to do the same thing so you might as well pull the trigger with the right size combo in the chamber and choke at the end of the barrel.
too many people try to draw conclusions on the shells they use from the birds kill or rather don't kill. you will never know exactly how your powder/shot/ choke combination works without patterning them at several distances. without the proof on the paper all the anecdotes and personal experiences really don't mean squat.
-
I pay more attention to the choke. Seems to make a lot of difference with steel shot.
-
Mass x velocity equals momentum, not knock down force and yes, pellet size matters. It matters a lot.
..."Knock down force" = Momentum ....
Excuse me professor, I was TRYING to dumb it down for the class.... :chuckle:
-
Here's some more info it's a 28 inch-long barrel it says full steel safe and were going to be hunting with decoys and then later in the day doing some jump shooting should I have one size for decoys and another for jump shooting if so what size
-
I think all of the above matter. I have found that some shells pattern better than others. 2 of the best I have found are federal premiums and kents. Others do OK, and it will be different with every gun. I also like larger shot sizes and tight chokes. The combo of all 3 allows me to get more hits with bigger shot and appears to be far more lethal than just shooting 4s in an open choke. And, I seem to kill the bird or miss more than I used to with a lot less cripples. Even over decoys, your second and third shots are almost always on birds that are flaring, meaning you don't have a lot of vitals exposed and need some energy and penetration to kill the bird. A tight load of 1s can be really lethal on ducks.
I currently shoot 1 1/4 ounce #2 federals out of an extended improved modified steel choke. Sometimes I shoot 1s. I buy my ammo by the case when it is on-sale online, so the price of the more expensive shells is still cheaper than going to a sporting goods store and buying cheap shells.
-
I have found that some shells pattern better than others. 2 of the best I have found are federal premiums and kents.
:yeah: :yeah: Kent and Federals along with home reloads :chuckle: pattern the best.
-
Here's some more info it's a 28 inch-long barrel it says full steel safe and were going to be hunting with decoys and then later in the day doing some jump shooting should I have one size for decoys and another for jump shooting if so what size
If all you have is a full choke (i.e., not interchangable), then buy some 2's and pattern them at 30yrds, 40yrds, etc. This will give you effective range of your barrel. If you can change the choke, put in an IC or Mod choke. Still a good idea to pattern different shells. If you don't want to buy two chokes, go with mod as general all around good choice.
ET
-
Wallmart sells Winchester 12 GA, 3", steel #2's for about $15 a box. That's 25 shells.
They will be perfect.
-
Wallmart sells Winchester 12 GA, 3", steel #2's for about $15 a box. That's 25 shells.
They will be perfect.
You are absolutely wrong!!!!!! They are $11.99 :chuckle:
Cabela's and Wholesale Sports has kents and federals for the same price and they are better :tup:
-
...I got ripped off.... :chuckle:
-
X3 for shells at wallmart. :yeah:
-
Thanks for the advice I just hit Walmart and pick up some 3 inch number 2,s
-
:tup:
Go get 'Em...