Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: Slamadoo on October 29, 2012, 04:07:15 PM

Title: Legal Spike?
Post by: Slamadoo on October 29, 2012, 04:07:15 PM: Opening day I saw a bull with 6 points on one side and his main beam broken off just above the ear. I had him at 25 yards. Assuming his eye guard on the broken side was under 4'' from the base was he legal? I was uneasy about it and so I passed on the shot. Looking back I wish I had taken it. What say you?
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: klickman on October 29, 2012, 04:09:12 PM: BOOM!!!! He was legal from what I have read.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Woodchuck on October 29, 2012, 04:09:46 PM: I would assume yes but man that is a tough call in the field. :twocents:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: vandeman17 on October 29, 2012, 04:24:34 PM: I also would assume it is legal but wouldn't have shot either. That would be really tough not to though! :bash:

I wonder if they would have to check the antler or something to show that it wasn't just broke off after you shot it... :dunno:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Kola16 on October 29, 2012, 04:30:16 PM: That is a tough one. Some wacko could just shoot a bull, and then break one side :dunno:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 29, 2012, 04:31:03 PM: :yeah:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: D-Rock425 on October 29, 2012, 04:32:07 PM: I would pass. Better to be safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: washelkhunter on October 29, 2012, 04:32:24 PM: Not legal.
Title: Legal Spike?
Post by: stickbuck on October 29, 2012, 04:35:16 PM: Tough to say without seeing a pic, but I would pass based on your description. Not worth the hassle with it be such a gray area.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: firefighter4607 on October 29, 2012, 04:35:48 PM: :yeah:
I think you made the right call. Sure you don't have meat in the frezzer but you could of shot an illegal elk, which you would of loss the meat anyway and gotten a ticket.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: D-Rock425 on October 29, 2012, 04:41:58 PM: A 6x1 with the spile side being a completely intact antler is one thing but a 6 point with one busted up side is another.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Kola16 on October 29, 2012, 04:47:06 PM: pg. 45 says nothing about broken antlers :dunno:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: hughjorgan on October 29, 2012, 04:47:37 PM: Quote from: Slamadoo on October 29, 2012, 04:07:15 PM
Opening day I saw a bull with 6 points on one side and his main beam broken off just above the ear. I had him at 25 yards. Assuming his eye guard on the broken side was under 4'' from the base was he legal? I was uneasy about it and so I passed on the shot. Looking back I wish I had taken it. What say you?

Legal you should of shot him!! How many elk did your camp put down this weekend any how?
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: adamR on October 29, 2012, 04:51:41 PM: Quote from: D-Rock425 on October 29, 2012, 04:41:58 PM
A 6x1 with the spile side being a completely intact antler is one thing but a 6 point with one busted up side is another.

Ya I wonder if they can look at the broken piece and tell how long ago it actually broke, tough call on that one. I probably would have shot and then afterwards been freaking out.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Bob33 on October 29, 2012, 04:56:08 PM: Please tell us which part of the WAC makes this elk illegal?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358)

"Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Bull elk taken in spike only GMUs must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull."
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: firefighter4607 on October 29, 2012, 05:13:57 PM: Quote from: Bob33 on October 29, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
Please tell us which part of the WAC makes this elk illegal?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358)

"Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Bull elk taken in spike only GMUs must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull."

Antler Point: To qualify as an antler point, the point must be at least one inch long measured on the longest side.

So maybe it was legal but it still doesn't define if it can be broken or not. Also the OP stated "Assuming his eye guard on the broken side was under 4'' from the base was he legal?"

I think this is why myself and others aren't too sure about the broken antler and assuming his eye guards was legal.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: hughjorgan on October 29, 2012, 05:18:01 PM: Quote from: firefighter4607 on October 29, 2012, 05:13:57 PM
Quote from: Bob33 on October 29, 2012, 04:56:08 PM
Please tell us which part of the WAC makes this elk illegal?

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=232-28-358)

"Spike Bull Antler Restrictions: Bull elk taken in spike only GMUs must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull."

Antler Point: To qualify as an antler point, the point must be at least one inch long measured on the longest side.

So maybe it was legal but it still doesn't define if it can be broken or not. Also the OP stated "Assuming his eye guard on the broken side was under 4'' from the base was he legal?"

I think this is why myself and others aren't too sure about the broken antler and assuming his eye guards was legal.

It shouldn't matter whether it is broken off or it was actually a spike on that side as long as it meets the definition it is legal.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: jechicdr on October 29, 2012, 05:47:02 PM: must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull.

Well, could almost guarantee that that other bulls antler has branches...and it is certainly more than 4 inches from the skull, probably more like 4 miles from the attachment of the antler (remnant) to the skull.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: shanevg on October 29, 2012, 09:43:18 PM: I'd shoot it and be freaking out as I packed it out and drove it home!
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: littlemac on October 29, 2012, 10:00:28 PM: I guess my hunting in a true spike area makes my choice easy, but I doubt I would have shot in a spike only area especially if I glassed it and knew it was broken.

Tough call for sure.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: luvtohnt on October 29, 2012, 10:09:13 PM: ETHICS would keep me from shooting. It is situations like this that make us have to sort through ten or more pages of legal crap to keep ourselves out of trouble every year. :nono:

Brandon
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: YellowDog on October 30, 2012, 12:12:46 AM: It is "probably" legal but if you were checked by a game warden you would be questioned extensively about it and just might be cited and accused of breaking the antler to make it appear legal. I believe I recall hearing my former neighbor (state patrol trooper) tell stories of people shortly after the spike only went into effect getting nailed for shooting branched antler bulls and then trying to break off and/or shoot off points to make it appear legal. You might be able to defend against it if it was broken long before you shot it but I wouldn't want to stake my hunting rights and the cost of defending myself on it.
If I knew it was broken and was not in reality a "natural" spike on one side I wouldn't shoot it anyway.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: csaaphill on October 30, 2012, 12:28:47 AM: Ya if the broken side was of a bigger elk like a 6x2/3 or something then no I would of passed. Never heard of a 6x1 anyhows.
Maybe a 2x1 3x1 but not 6x1. My guess is he was a bigger elk and it just broke and left what you described as a spike or one point on one side.
So I applaud you for restraint.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: dc on October 30, 2012, 03:33:43 AM: I saw a Huge 6x1 in Idaho many yrs ago. If bull would have had matching sides with 6 on a side it would have been roughly a 350 bull. His spike side was every bit as long as his 6 side, but not a point one coming off it. Beautiful bull and would have made a great trophy if I would have been hunting elk.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: PlateauNDN on October 30, 2012, 09:12:27 AM: didn't pathfinder's friend shoot a 6x1 in Oregon last year or the year before? I recall him sharing the pic earlier this summer? :dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Woodchuck on October 30, 2012, 09:19:07 AM: :yeah: Monster 6x1. We watched one get dropped last season on the opener. A guy in our party could have shot it but was hard for him to convince himself that he was seeing what he was really seeing.
I would likely have passed as well, not worth the headache if the warden's judgement isn't the same as mine.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: elkoholic1 on October 30, 2012, 09:22:01 AM: :mgun: BOOM!!!
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: scout/sniper on October 30, 2012, 09:43:42 AM: It's Legal!

Spike Bull Areas:
Elk taken in these units must have at least one antler with no branches originating more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull.
An animal with a spike on one side (1x2) is legal in spike only units. An animal with more than one antler point more than four inches above where the antler attaches to the skull on both sides (2x2)
is illegal.

I wouldn't shoot unless the broken antler was healed.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 09:49:25 AM: Curious how can you tell if it is healed? Damn good optics maybe??
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Bigtine96 on October 30, 2012, 10:07:30 AM: Broken antler won't heal, it will just get more rubbed down and colored. A fresh break will be really light and stick out when you walk up to it of course. But you can definitely tell a fresh break from a old break.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Kowsrule30 on October 30, 2012, 11:36:53 AM: The regs say it's legal... Guess it just depends on the eyegaurd... Most the bulls I've see down and the ones I've killed the first eyegaurd is within a couple inches of the base..... The second eyegaurd is almost always beyond 4".... Another kicker is the law states where the antler attaches to the skull.... So the warden could measure from the base or the actual skull plate.... Which could make the first eyegaurd beyond 4"..... :twocents: I probably would've shot it.... How can they blame you for that.... Not everyday you see a bigger bull that is spike legal...
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: scout/sniper on October 30, 2012, 12:02:30 PM: Quote from: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 09:49:25 AM
Curious how can you tell if it is healed? Damn good optics maybe??
I just learned from Bigtine96 that they won't heal.
If I couldn't tell an old break from a fresh one I wouldn't risk it.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: scout/sniper on October 30, 2012, 12:03:35 PM: Quote from: Bigtine96 on October 30, 2012, 10:07:30 AM
Broken antler won't heal, it will just get more rubbed down and colored. A fresh break will be really light and stick out when you walk up to it of course. But you can definitely tell a fresh break from a old break.
Didn't know that, thanks.
Title: Re: Legal Spike?
Post by: Jonathan_S on October 30, 2012, 05:58:35 PM: Tough, tough call.