Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 08:34:08 PM
What is a good manufacturer to buy from, or should i build one?
Input please. Im open to suggestions.
Post by: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 08:35:24 PM
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on October 30, 2012, 08:39:57 PM
Now... Subsonic, (supressed) How does the cool factor outweigh usefulness.
-Steve
Post by: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 08:42:08 PM
Tagging this thread... Interested in what some might have to say.
Now... Subsonic, (supressed) How does the cool factor outweigh usefulness.
-Steve
I am a practical guy by nature so I lean towards agreement but guns to me are a hobby so practical is out the window. Make sense Mr. Serious?
Post by: Huntbear on October 30, 2012, 08:43:22 PM
Oly arms also makes the 243 wssm and 25 wssm which do double duty as coyote, deer and cougar guns, and just fun to shoot.. I have one in 243 wssm. Love it so far.
If you want to go to .308 category of round, that will require a bunch more money and going to an AR 10. But then if it is a .308 length case, you can get it built, too, just change out the barrel, basically.
There is a couple of threads on the 6.5 & 6.8...
Personally, I want a 16" heavy (not a bull or varmint) fluted barrelled .223 flattop, I can put a red dot or a scope on it, and rock and roll on anything out to 300 yards easy in .223. Especially using handloads.
Keep us up to date on your search and what you decide on.. would love to hear your thoughts on how you picked your vendor.
Post by: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 08:53:17 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on October 30, 2012, 09:18:34 PM
I've got the itch pretty bad now. Don't have the slightest idea where to start. I would like to shoot big game with it so that leaves out the 223. On the other hand maybe i don't need it to hunt with I've got plenty of hunting rifles. 6.5 grendel, 308?.
What is a good manufacturer to buy from, or should i build one?
Input please. Im open to suggestions.
There are so many options for the Ar-15 platform it would take daus...
Help us narrow it down.
Budget?, Use(s)?, Optics?.
These 3 will narrow the answers down considerably.
Post by: Blacklab on October 30, 2012, 09:23:01 PM
Post by: Caseyd on October 30, 2012, 09:34:21 PM
I like you thought about building a Washington legal big game caliber riffle then I realized I have plenty of those and .223 would suit my needs for coyotes and target shooting.
Went with a 20 inch 1/8 twist match barrell.
I do have the itch to build one in a big game legal caliber now though :chuckle:
Post by: JohnVH on October 30, 2012, 09:48:43 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on October 30, 2012, 10:06:13 PM
Post by: dscubame on October 30, 2012, 10:11:34 PM
Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 10:13:34 PM
the 6.5G and 308 are two different animals, one needs a bigger heavier frame to pack around. My 6.5Grendel is lighter than my 7mm tikka t3hmmmm. Good point there :tup:
Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 10:18:03 PM
. The budget is ok. Have plenty of time to buy parts. As far as optics i like red dots or eotecs, but t doesnt matter at this point it could be anything. I really would like somthing to deer hunt with.I've got the itch pretty bad now. Don't have the slightest idea where to start. I would like to shoot big game with it so that leaves out the 223. On the other hand maybe i don't need it to hunt with I've got plenty of hunting rifles. 6.5 grendel, 308?.
What is a good manufacturer to buy from, or should i build one?
Input please. Im open to suggestions.
There are so many options for the Ar-15 platform it would take daus...
Help us narrow it down.
Budget?, Use(s)?, Optics?.
These 3 will narrow the answers down considerably.
Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 10:22:29 PM
Post by: JohnVH on October 30, 2012, 10:25:15 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on October 30, 2012, 10:34:25 PM
Post by: CementFinisher on October 30, 2012, 10:49:00 PM
Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 11:17:41 PM
Since youve rulled out 223 556 i would then suggest you build your own. The price for non 223 556 is way to high you can save alot of money building it yourself and have it the way you want it. I would suggest 6.8 for big game and because its becoming widely available and will be even more the more the military converts to the round. Its bc in many of its bullets are a good reason to use the round. but if ong range is your plan than this not a good option. my buddy built a 243 but getting the gas pressures to operate prperly can be a pain and the barrels are spendy and hard to obtain. I haven't ruled out the 223 yet.
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 30, 2012, 11:18:47 PM
Nothing wrong with the .223/5.56 but you mentioned you might want to hunt deer with it. Besides, I would rather shoot a coyote and rockchucks with a Grendel and a 95gr V-Max. :tup:
It's all personal preference. Get your barrel first, the rest comes easy.
Post by: sled on October 30, 2012, 11:28:56 PM
For a standard AR, I would opt for the Grendel. Do some looking around and find a used barrel and bolt. That should save you some $$$. Or purchase a Blackhole weaponry. 264 LBC barrel, their turn around time is fairly quick. As for the choice between 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC, the Grendel walks all over the SPC. I know my share of guys that jumped on the 6.8 SPC wagon and got rid of all of it. Even know some that purchased Remington 700's and built AR's in 6.8 SPC. Took them a bit to figure it out but it's all been sent down the road.. What about a complete 223? I was told that colt , and smith and wesson? Are the only ones that are mil spec? Is that a big deal? There are lots of manufacters but im lost.
Nothing wrong with the .223/5.56 but you mentioned you might want to hunt deer with it. Besides, I would rather shoot a coyote and rockchucks with a Grendel and a 95gr V-Max. :tup:
It's all personal preference. Get your barrel first, the rest comes easy.
I am leaning towards the grendal.
Post by: CementFinisher on October 31, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
Post by: JoeE on October 31, 2012, 12:28:50 AM
Post by: CementFinisher on October 31, 2012, 12:57:19 AM
Post by: JoeE on October 31, 2012, 01:51:46 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on October 31, 2012, 05:37:17 AM
I picked up a new Smith and Wesson M&P 15T in 2008 for $1,150. That model includes far more picatinny rails than I want, and has flip up BUIS on both sides. Its a good gun. At the time I bought it, it was very hard to even build an M4 variant in similar configuration for that much or less.
The barrel is stamped 5.56 NATO, so it can handle the higher pressures that the 5.56 puts out. If you didn't know, you can fire .223 ammo through a 5.56 but you can't fire 5.56 through a .223. Its been a while since I've reviewed the specific ballistics but I remember something that a higher pressure round with a lighter weight bullet fired through a slower twist barrel will produce a sufficient amount of tumbling within the bad guy even with cheap ammo--don't need to buy the expensive stuff.
Quote
Only took me about two years to collect all the pieces one by one so my wife didn't know.
:lol4:
Joe: be sure to check out promotive.com, unless you have a cheaper place to buy from. Great deals on Leupold, Crimson Trace, Zeiss, Benchmade, etc.
Post by: Blacklab on October 31, 2012, 06:01:58 AM
If your gonna build, build it right so you don't have to do it twice. Unless you just want another ;)
barrel, trigger an optics are the most important and are a little spendy. Buy nice or buy twice :twocents:
Post by: Biggerhammer on October 31, 2012, 08:39:11 AM
Grendel Grendel Grendel :twocents:
If your gonna build, build it right so you don't have to do it twice. Unless you just want another ;)
barrel, trigger an optics are the most important and are a little spendy. Buy nice or buy twice :twocents:
:tup:
Post by: Jburke on October 31, 2012, 09:59:19 AM
Post by: hillbilli on November 01, 2012, 12:35:41 PM
Post by: CementFinisher on November 01, 2012, 12:57:32 PM
Post by: dontgetcrabs on November 01, 2012, 01:13:52 PM
be careful when using a different upper and lower when it comes to colt, they have different pin sizes and wont always mate together.
The larger pin size on Colts refers only to the trigger group pins, not the take down pins. Colts are 100% compatible with any other manufacturers mil spec parts.
Post by: Bofire on November 01, 2012, 04:57:30 PM
I just bought a R15 Remington from Cabelas for $900, 18 inch, 6.5 lbs so far is quite accurate, light and fun to shoot. Killed one coyote with it so far. I tend to hunt big game with bolt guns, love my 300WM!! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Carl
Post by: sled on November 01, 2012, 06:50:50 PM
Post by: JohnVH on November 01, 2012, 07:44:22 PM
Post by: FALFire on November 01, 2012, 07:49:13 PM
I feel that the 20" gives you the best of options depending on your physical height. If you are 6"-2" plus, a 24 inch barrel should be okay but if you are 5'-2" you are gonna feel a little challenged at times carrying it in some areas, those long barrels like to bounce off of things.
Post by: JohnVH on November 01, 2012, 07:53:55 PM
16"Barrel shooting a 120gr at 500yds VELOCITY 1616 ENERGY 696
19.5" shooting a 120gr at 500yds V 1670 E 743
24" shooting a 120gr at 500yds V 1732 E 800
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2012, 07:59:12 PM
My logic is by the time I build a 6.5 grendel or other from ground up, I'm going to have a chunk of $ into it, enough that I could just buy a complete then add an upper and I still get the .223 for a yote gun.
right now I'm looking at the SIG one at Walmart for 900 ish bucks. I really like the green magpul stuff on it, and I think it'd be a decent off the rack shooter for yotes. It has like a 1:7 twist so it'd make a decent Cougar gun with the heavier 70g or so bullets, I also read pretty tight groups down range.
I'll buy other uppers for it later, but it'd be a good start.
What would you AR guys buy as your first complete?
Post by: Ridgeratt on November 01, 2012, 08:11:50 PM
Big R did have a pretty good choice the last time I was there.
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2012, 08:42:47 PM
KF
Big R did have a pretty good choice the last time I was there.
Prices in Big R are a little rough, I'll check em out though.
I think it'll be hard to beat walmarts price on that sigarms m400 enhanced
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/m400-enhanced-fde.aspx (http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/m400-enhanced-fde.aspx)
Post by: sled on November 01, 2012, 08:47:10 PM
I've pretty well decided I'm going to buy a complete AR in .223. I don't have any spare parts laying around at home, so I'd have to mail order everything.. I just looked at the sig m 400 ar cabelas. 799.00. I am also thinking about that and buying the upper later. Seems like a good idea?
My logic is by the time I build a 6.5 grendel or other from ground up, I'm going to have a chunk of $ into it, enough that I could just buy a complete then add an upper and I still get the .223 for a yote gun.
right now I'm looking at the SIG one at Walmart for 900 ish bucks. I really like the green magpul stuff on it, and I think it'd be a decent off the rack shooter for yotes. It has like a 1:7 twist so it'd make a decent Cougar gun with the heavier 70g or so bullets, I also read pretty tight groups down range.
I'll buy other uppers for it later, but it'd be a good start.
What would you AR guys buy as your first complete?
Post by: sled on November 01, 2012, 08:49:09 PM
I've pretty well decided I'm going to buy a complete AR in .223. I don't have any spare parts laying around at home, so I'd have to mail order everything.. Did they have the sig in a flat top?
My logic is by the time I build a 6.5 grendel or other from ground up, I'm going to have a chunk of $ into it, enough that I could just buy a complete then add an upper and I still get the .223 for a yote gun.
right now I'm looking at the SIG one at Walmart for 900 ish bucks. I really like the green magpul stuff on it, and I think it'd be a decent off the rack shooter for yotes. It has like a 1:7 twist so it'd make a decent Cougar gun with the heavier 70g or so bullets, I also read pretty tight groups down range.
I'll buy other uppers for it later, but it'd be a good start.
What would you AR guys buy as your first complete?
Post by: Chinook73 on November 01, 2012, 08:52:29 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2012, 09:02:44 PM
I've pretty well decided I'm going to buy a complete AR in .223. I don't have any spare parts laying around at home, so I'd have to mail order everything.. I just looked at the sig m 400 ar cabelas. 799.00. I am also thinking about that and buying the upper later. Seems like a good idea?
My logic is by the time I build a 6.5 grendel or other from ground up, I'm going to have a chunk of $ into it, enough that I could just buy a complete then add an upper and I still get the .223 for a yote gun.
right now I'm looking at the SIG one at Walmart for 900 ish bucks. I really like the green magpul stuff on it, and I think it'd be a decent off the rack shooter for yotes. It has like a 1:7 twist so it'd make a decent Cougar gun with the heavier 70g or so bullets, I also read pretty tight groups down range.
I'll buy other uppers for it later, but it'd be a good start.
What would you AR guys buy as your first complete?
They had two different styles, the M400 with carry handle - plain jane looking for good price but I can't remember exactly so I won't quote it.
Then they had the magpul version, tan or green flattop
very nice rifle, it was at that 900 mark
Post by: RIVERRAT on November 01, 2012, 09:03:13 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 01, 2012, 09:16:32 PM
be careful when using a different upper and lower when it comes to colt, they have different pin sizes and wont always mate together.
The larger pin size on Colts refers only to the trigger group pins, not the take down pins. Colts are 100% compatible with any other manufacturers mil spec parts.
The newer colts are, the older colts have a larger take down pin, but an adapter can be purchased to use mil-spec uppers. That along with the larger trigger pins are common "blue label" characteristics
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 01, 2012, 09:34:35 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2012, 09:39:28 PM
what can I say? :dunno:
Post by: Ridgeratt on November 01, 2012, 09:41:35 PM
I've looked at quite a few AR's in the stores over the years and none of them interested me, but the green SIG speaks to me.
what can I say? :dunno:
Money,Money Money. is that what you hear?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 01, 2012, 09:42:07 PM
I've looked at quite a few AR's in the stores over the years and none of them interested me, but the green SIG speaks to me.
what can I say? :dunno:
Buy me, buy me, buy me. It's speaking to you..... :chuckle:
Post by: KFhunter on November 01, 2012, 09:43:05 PM
Post by: actionshooter on November 01, 2012, 09:49:10 PM
How about a JP Precision topped with a Swaro?
Post by: JLR on November 02, 2012, 12:34:05 PM
Did somebody want the "best" AR?
How about a JP Precision topped with a Swaro?
I'll see your JP and raise you an RBros/Seekins AR with a Leupold VX6 Multigun 8)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi307.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn310%2Fredellj%2FGun%2520Stuff%2F314748_10151709346296490_1532804922_n.jpg&hash=c619d2a6a128ccf16fcafe0bb5d466d1d12a7669)
Post by: JohnVH on November 02, 2012, 12:48:43 PM
Post by: KFhunter on November 02, 2012, 02:32:02 PM
1) Windham - felt low grade - sloppy
2) Colt - low grade @ high grade price
3) Sig - the M400 enhanced was not in stock, so I played with M400 with a sig scope package. more impressed with the scope than the gun. was "OK"
4) DTI - no
5) DMPS - meh
6) Ruger SR-556 - YES!, oh I liked this one. fit and finish was far above the others, price was too at 1400 bucks (big R prices)
I need to research this one.
I still want to handle the M400 enhanced too
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 02, 2012, 02:49:48 PM
I fondled a few off the shelf AR's today
1) Windham - felt low grade - sloppy
2) Colt - low grade @ high grade price
3) Sig - the M400 enhanced was not in stock, so I played with M400 with a sig scope package. more impressed with the scope than the gun. was "OK"
4) DTI - no
5) DMPS - meh
6) Ruger SR-556 - YES!, oh I liked this one. fit and finish was far above the others, price was too at 1400 bucks (big R prices)
I need to research this one.
I still want to handle the M400 enhanced too
Let me know before you buy one. We have friends in high places that might beat all prices around town...... you know what I'm talkng about, dontcha ?
Post by: Blacklab on November 02, 2012, 04:00:22 PM
204 ruger
223/5.56x45
5.7x28
223wsm
243wsm
25wsm
6.5 grendel
6.8spc
7.62x39
30AR
450 bushmaster
458 scocom
50 beowulf
Post by: KFhunter on November 02, 2012, 04:19:16 PM
worried I might not be able to change out the uppers on the Ruger SR 556 gun, also the rails are not "removable" really.
gun sure felt solid though, but thinking I'll pass as I want to toss on different uppers with ease.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 02, 2012, 04:28:16 PM
drawbacks to a piston gun?
worried I might not be able to change out the uppers on the Ruger SR 556 gun, also the rails are not "removable" really.
gun sure felt solid though, but thinking I'll pass as I want to toss on different uppers with ease.
Expensive. All of mine have been reliable if you keep them clean. It only takes one jam to figure that out. Piston guns I think are geared up more for the guys that shoot them all the time. I might be wrong, but that's what I think from I've read.
Post by: KFhunter on November 02, 2012, 05:42:15 PM
holy crap the price of the uppers for the SR-556 :yike:
http://ruger.com/products/sr556Uppers/models.html (http://ruger.com/products/sr556Uppers/models.html)
SR-556UFB 90356 5.56 NATO 30 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
SR-556UC 90358 5.56 NATO 30 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
SR-556U6.8 90359 6.8 Rem SPC 25 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 02, 2012, 05:47:52 PM
I won't be getting a ruger
holy crap the price of the uppers for the SR-556 :yike:
http://ruger.com/products/sr556Uppers/models.html (http://ruger.com/products/sr556Uppers/models.html)
SR-556UFB 90356 5.56 NATO 30 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
SR-556UC 90358 5.56 NATO 30 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
SR-556U6.8 90359 6.8 Rem SPC 25 n/a n/a n/a $1499.00
Ya know Chris, my first was a DPMS and was a good shooter. I'd buy another in a minute. I've had a DPMS. OLY ARMS and my ROCK RIVER. All work and are milspec as far as I know. All of those uppers should fit any of those lowers. :twocents:
Post by: dscubame on November 02, 2012, 08:29:58 PM
Post by: dscubame on November 02, 2012, 08:45:14 PM
Currently complete and I had more fun learning what was needed to create this build sheet than anything. It is fun to shoot and more exciting is the guys that see it and feel its a experience to shoot.
Copy and Paste from my excell spreadsheet.
March 5th 2012. AR-15 Match Grade Custom Built .223/5.56
Part MFG and mfg# supplier Cost Notes
Lower Receiver S&W M&P 15 Impact Guns $170 Smith & Wesson Military & Police 15
Lower Receiver DPMS #LRPK1 Brownells $60
Parts Kit
2 stage match trigger Geissele Brownells $280 High Speed DMR pull weights.
Pistol Grip Hogue 15000 Brownells $20
Buttstock Magpul STR Hamlund Tactical $101 With enhanced rubber buttstock.
A/2 Stock Completion Kit Daniel Defense Brownells $65
Oversize Trigger Guard Brownells Brownells $25
Upper Receiver Rainier Arms Rainier Arms $125 Rainier Arms forged upper assembly minus FA
Match grade barrel Rainier Arms Rainier Arms $250 Rainier Arms Select Match Grade .223 Wylde Barrel.
18 inch 1/8 twist mid length gas.
Gas Block Rainier Arms Rainier Arms $95 Low profile extended and pinned by Rainier.
Bolt/Carrier assembly Double Star #AR100 Brownells $150
Charging Handle Sog Armory #5130 Brownells $50 Charging handle with tactical latch
Upper Parts Kit Rainier Arms Rainier Arms $25 High Standard Upper Receiver Parts Kit, FF Rifle
Hand Guard Rainier Arms Rainer Arms $175 Evolution by Rainier Arms made by Samson. 12 inch.
Flash Hider Rainier Arms Rainier Arms $55 XD Flash Hider
Optic / Laser Leupold Mark 4 HAMR $1,300
Misc tools/nuts/bolts. $50
$2,996
Post by: actionshooter on November 06, 2012, 01:31:30 PM
Did somebody want the "best" AR?
How about a JP Precision topped with a Swaro?
I'll see your JP and raise you an RBros/Seekins AR with a Leupold VX6 Multigun 8)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi307.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fnn310%2Fredellj%2FGun%2520Stuff%2F314748_10151709346296490_1532804922_n.jpg&hash=c619d2a6a128ccf16fcafe0bb5d466d1d12a7669)
Great, Now I'm going too have to find action shots from 3-gun matches to keep up with the "RBROS" ;)
I tried one of the prototype VX6's, I'll keep my Swaro, thanks anyway.
I'll have to admit Glen's 3-gun rifle is pretty damn sweet! I would like to try one someday.
Steve
Post by: actionshooter on November 06, 2012, 01:34:32 PM
lets see some targets from those ubercool ar's! :tup:I'll get some pics of groups after hunting season is over. They have been in the 3/4" range with 69gr Sierras
Post by: ORCA_SIX on November 06, 2012, 02:01:51 PM
Post by: scottcrb on November 06, 2012, 02:40:45 PM