Post by: gramps on September 03, 2008, 08:37:50 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 03, 2008, 08:39:30 PM
:dunno:
Post by: wastickslinger on September 03, 2008, 10:33:07 PM
Post by: bucklucky on September 03, 2008, 11:07:47 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 03, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
Post by: bucklucky on September 03, 2008, 11:18:23 PM
Post by: M_ray on September 03, 2008, 11:45:31 PM
Just kidding about the girl chasing ex con thing guy's! I'm not even sure about the whiskey thing but I have a hunch if he got that fat toad he'd gladly drink the ceremonial M_ray bottle of Pendleton with no complaints!
Post by: Caseyd on September 04, 2008, 03:52:03 AM
Harvest is over and i think the combines might have been moved to a hanger at the airport to get cleaned and overhauled. Ill call my cousin and see if hes been out at the airport and ask him what he's seen going down. Either way..if he was at the cabin on Twin Buttes or at the airport working im sure he knows of something.....
Ill keep you guys posted ASAP!
Post by: gramps on September 04, 2008, 07:35:36 AM
Post by: huntnphool on September 04, 2008, 08:48:29 AM
Does anyone know how much that tag generated?
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on September 04, 2008, 08:51:10 AM
Post by: bucklucky on September 04, 2008, 08:52:07 AM
If it is dead, theres still more bulls on the mountain , I aint worried. Didnt like the look of that 451 bull anyway, It was only the score that was impresive to me ;)
By the way , Im just trying to make myself feel better :'(
Post by: huntnphool on September 04, 2008, 08:58:28 AM
man someone needs to get a picture :'(
I would assume there are going to be magazine deals in the works and we will have to wait until it hits the stands, bummer for sure pendoreille
Post by: bow4elk on September 04, 2008, 09:24:13 AM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 04, 2008, 09:27:43 AM
Post by: DeKuma on September 04, 2008, 09:29:27 AM
Post by: Bean Counter on September 04, 2008, 09:32:24 AM
Hunting/trapping/fishing is a way of life, not a sport. Never liked that term associated with hunting and never will...
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
I've had similar feelings for a while now and I couldn't have explained it better myself. :tup:
Post by: huntnphool on September 04, 2008, 09:42:06 AM
In this context, there's no hunting skill involved in deep pockets, airplanes, and long range shots...may as well be a gopher in my mind. It reduces the meaning of "hunting" when killing is made into a spectacle sport. Hunting/trapping/fishing is a way of life, not a sport. Never liked that term associated with hunting and never will...
I agree 110% and yet there are those on this site that will get upset and argue that this is indeed "hunting" just like the guy on ebay raising deer for release so some guy can pay loads to sit and wait for his buck to walk by thinking its finally out of a cage, they post websters definition of "hunting" and compare it to looking for the car keys, all the while defending actions like this. Well said Bow4elk!!!
Post by: TheHunt on September 04, 2008, 10:29:13 AM
Post by: popeshawnpaul on September 04, 2008, 11:09:04 AM
Now, will I respect the hunt like someone else that worked really hard and didn't hire a guide? Probably not. However, to each his own.
Post by: backwoods_boy on September 04, 2008, 11:11:54 AM
Post by: gramps on September 04, 2008, 12:36:34 PM
Post by: HawkenBob on September 04, 2008, 12:41:39 PM
Post by: huntnphool on September 04, 2008, 02:05:51 PM
Hopefully it was Terrible Ted Nugent! :chuckle:
Couldn't have been, the plane would not have been spotted because it would have been camo :chuckle:
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 03:04:24 PM
Post by: ThePascoKid on September 04, 2008, 03:12:10 PM
Post by: Skinner on September 04, 2008, 04:39:24 PM
Post by: BC CHASER on September 04, 2008, 05:09:46 PM
Oh and Samson scored 295''. The 321 shot a week ago there looks a lot like him.
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 07:12:42 PM
Post by: gramps on September 04, 2008, 07:34:43 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 07:34:56 PM
Post by: Blackstar on September 04, 2008, 07:39:23 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 07:41:59 PM
Post by: Blackstar on September 04, 2008, 07:46:11 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 07:49:03 PM
Post by: Blackstar on September 04, 2008, 07:52:39 PM
Yeah, it destroys the state record. Maybe top ten in Boone. Gonna be close.
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 07:55:48 PM
Post by: gramps on September 04, 2008, 07:57:06 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 04, 2008, 07:57:35 PM
pic please? :dunno:
Post by: Blackstar on September 04, 2008, 08:02:40 PM
Well, thats all for one day. Don't wanna spoil the story for anyone. The hunt, after all, is the fun part......
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 08:03:43 PM
Post by: Blackstar on September 04, 2008, 08:03:51 PM
Post by: rackattack on September 04, 2008, 08:05:12 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 08:06:46 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 08:08:03 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 08:22:23 PM
Someone correct me if it is not ok to post this. Dont want to make anyone mad.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 04, 2008, 08:28:37 PM
Post by: Jackjr on September 04, 2008, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: hunterbuilder on September 04, 2008, 08:34:12 PM
Post by: TheHunt on September 04, 2008, 08:35:10 PM
Post by: Crunchy on September 04, 2008, 08:41:08 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 04, 2008, 08:47:02 PM
there's more giant bulls down there IMO but what do i know.
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 08:48:25 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 04, 2008, 08:52:29 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 08:53:32 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 08:54:46 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa216%2Fcbrocket81%2Felk1.jpg&hash=e6f1649a06b61604575d91dc5bf282e1414022b1)
br
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa216%2Fcbrocket81%2Felk2.jpg&hash=47c5583c219caaabafacc9645d5d6c5063f71e5a)
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 08:56:08 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 04, 2008, 08:58:14 PM
i'm looking for the shed pics from 2 springs ago.
Post by: skynyr on September 04, 2008, 09:01:26 PM
LOL :'( :cryriver:In this context, there's no hunting skill involved in deep pockets, airplanes, and long range shots...may as well be a gopher in my mind. It reduces the meaning of "hunting" when killing is made into a spectacle sport. Hunting/trapping/fishing is a way of life, not a sport. Never liked that term associated with hunting and never will...
I agree 110% and yet there are those on this site that will get upset and argue that this is indeed "hunting" just like the guy on ebay raising deer for release so some guy can pay loads to sit and wait for his buck to walk by thinking its finally out of a cage, they post websters definition of "hunting" and compare it to looking for the car keys, all the while defending actions like this. Well said Bow4elk!!!
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 09:11:14 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa216%2Fcbrocket81%2Felk2007.jpg&hash=f5722be0b3a04345ea27a44006a1f6ea610cd008)
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 09:14:46 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 09:18:05 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 09:20:20 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 09:21:48 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 09:24:17 PM
Post by: yelp on September 04, 2008, 09:27:38 PM
Post by: Ridgerunner on September 04, 2008, 09:30:40 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 04, 2008, 09:31:33 PM
the 451 bull from '08 is a different bull from the '07 sheds you posted that i was looking for.
there's also pic's on here somewhere of a real big typical 7x7 the same guy picked up that is another different bull.
Post by: Lowedog on September 04, 2008, 09:32:07 PM
Looks like WA is in the game of selling big bulls now. How long untill we see a pic with a team of guys in pink T shirts or something? I wonder if this guy had a bunch of guys camping on this bull all summer for him?
:puke: :puke: :puke:
-Lowedog
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 09:32:29 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 09:52:04 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 04, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 04, 2008, 10:00:11 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 10:00:57 PM
Post by: ThePascoKid on September 04, 2008, 10:06:10 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 04, 2008, 10:07:39 PM
We should start a new thread "how much will the Gov. tag go for next year" and see who is the closest.
I am going to put out the first number $85k. :puke:
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 10:10:41 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa216%2Fcbrocket81%2Felk3.jpg&hash=0583d8121f26894e4ed333abac6d7b9da43dfaf8)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi12.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa216%2Fcbrocket81%2Felk2007.jpg&hash=f5722be0b3a04345ea27a44006a1f6ea610cd008)
Post by: skynyr on September 04, 2008, 10:13:57 PM
Post by: bornforhorns on September 04, 2008, 10:55:26 PM
Money for a good cause or not...this whole thing makes me sick!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wrangler on September 04, 2008, 11:43:12 PM
Hey guys, It's just an elk. It's not the end of the world. I love how some of you just start bashing on someone because of the way they chose to hunt an animal.
were not bashing anyone for CHOOSING to hunt an animal in anyway. i think we're all a little tweaked because most of us don't consider flying in on a private jet for 2 days, being taken to a specific stump to rest our rifle on and waiting a few minutes for a specific record book animail to step out so we can shoot it, then taking the horns and cape back to the plane and getting the hell outa dodge is considered hunting. i don't at least. the way people CHOOSE to hunt an animal is single biggest factor in that persons character as an outdoorsman. i CHOOSE fair chase and applying skills iv learned from generations of hunters in my family as well as knowledge iv gained from other hunters like me. i CHOOSE not to use my social status or bank account nor would i choose to use my ability to seach the web for the biggest and best trophy animals for sale. i feel im in the majority on this one, but fear we're becoming the minority.
Quote
I'd laugh if he out hiked you for 22 miles, :chuckle: and then had his helicoptor come pick him up.
on a different note... thats damn funny right there! LOL!
Post by: Caseyd on September 05, 2008, 12:10:01 AM
Quote
i feel im in the majority on this one, but fear we're becoming the minority.
I dont feel we are in the minority....we just hear about "big" hunts like this! When you really think about the number of hunters, then the number of hunters who hunt like this, is it is a small percentage.
I DO NOT agree with how this bull was taken but it was his choice. And as long as he or his hunting party did not break any laws then how can we really complain. At least the Bull generated money for the state..... Hey on a worse term basis it could of been poached. Alot of people had a general idea were this Bull was at. Think of the general area he was in....not the most internet savy area( well compared to alot of locations in the state)there was more people then just people with constant computer access. I have family from Waitsburg and Dayton and when i saw the threads a couple weeks back on this Bull i talked with some of them and they told me where the sheds were found and had a general idea of where he was at.
Im just sad cause my gramps has a big bull tag for that area and now he wont be able to get him :'( :chuckle: Like others have said....there are plenty of other big bulls in the Blues for the rest of us :)
Post by: Opportunist on September 05, 2008, 01:45:54 AM
That is one truly unbelievable bull!
Congratulations to the hunters/conservationists of this state that paid for the management of this incredible bull to have it shot by some out of state rich guy who didn't do *censored* to deserve it. That for me is what pisses me the *censored* off. Pretty clear for me no gray area!
Post by: SHANE(WA) on September 05, 2008, 01:55:39 AM
Post by: Opportunist on September 05, 2008, 02:52:50 AM
And when I refer to "US", I refer to HUNTERS not SHOOTERS! If your not a hunter that is fine, then my inclusion does not refer to you.
I have no problem with out of state HUNTERS supporting our wildlife management. The legacy of our hunting is based on the traditions brought down by all of our families and that is the only thing keeping hunting alive. So purchasing my license every year and the licenses my dad has purchased since the 50's is what has kept hunting going. Along with every other HUNTERS families licenses and tags purchased. Auction hunts need to go! If you do the math a $1 increase on my elk tag I'm pretty sure surpasses the $65,000. I may be off a little on the numbers but the last I read we had 80,000 licensed elk hunters in the state. So for a few measly dollars which in my family between my sons, wife and myself is about $200 dollars WE do support OUR game department. I do support raffle ticket hunts at least everyone has a chance.
Post by: JoeVon on September 05, 2008, 05:46:37 AM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on September 05, 2008, 05:58:46 AM
That said, I don't fault the hunter at all, for legally maximizing his own opportunities to the greatest extent possible. Doesn't seem much different to me, other than scale, than paying to hunt private ground to get better harvest opportunities than on public, paying a horse packer to take you back further than the poorer SOBs carrying camps on their backs, paying a helicopter to carry out your damage hunt bulls from the hellhole you snowmobiled into, buying incredible glass, laser range finders, ultramagnum rifles with bullet drop compensator reticles etc. It's also not much different than many of us paying more to hunt ID, MT, WA, CO - we do it because we can afford it.
It's also not much different, in my book, than Joe Hunters lobbying the Game department for permit opportunities to kill mule deer bucks on winter range, the few days of the year they are rut dumb and vulnerable when passing on their genes ... these harvests occur at the expense of the general hunting public's opportunity to take them.
I miss the days of people who trophy hunted by choice during the general season, understood it was a choice and reduced their chances to harvest as a result. There are an awful lot of fat, out of shape, and/or lazy Joe Hunters who now equate the opportunity to "harvest" a trophy as the number of years they have to accrue points in drawings, in order to kill a rut-dumb buck or bull they are incapable - or uninterested - in hunting during a general season. I think a LARGE percentage of us are just like this guy - if we had so much jingle we could drop it on an exclusive permit, and all the trappings, we would do the same.
Some of this griping is legit. There are still a lot of good hunters too, concerned about the road hunting is going down, and what this does to the future of our sport. From my view, though, there's an awful lot of just plain jealousy. Give many of us an extra $10 million or so of mad money, and we'll use that to enhance our own opportunities, including measures that exclude the less wealthy. That's human nature.
For all you multimillionaires who choose to hunt general seasons on public land, my hat's off!
Post by: Opportunist on September 05, 2008, 06:42:15 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on September 05, 2008, 06:45:09 AM
I should have figured it out then but now I realize what they were doing. I know there was quite a bit of work that went into this on someones part. I'm sure it took a lot of time to keep track of this bull. I wish the guide could hang this bull on his wall since he is probably the only one deserving it.
as far as the hunting close to the road goes....that's where the bull was living and you have to hunt where they are.
congratulations to the guides on finding and staying on this bull.
I just hope everything was on the up and up.
Post by: yelp on September 05, 2008, 07:13:03 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 05, 2008, 07:26:05 AM
Like others have said, not my style of hunting. If everything was legit and that was just his preffered method (again not mine), I cant blame the guy. I agree that as long as they have this super tag we will have this kind of hunting(shooting) take place. All the others states deal witht the same controversy. I like the idea of adding another $1-2 to the elk tag and giving out one more raffle tag.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 05, 2008, 07:28:09 AM
Post by: yelp on September 05, 2008, 07:41:16 AM
Post by: HawkenBob on September 05, 2008, 07:42:31 AM
The man used his resources thats for sure. The only thing Id have done different if I was that hunter with that kind of money is been a big part of the whole process. Id have wanted to be right by my paid guides learning from them and talking good stories at night in my 8000 sq foot polished diamond plate wall fortress.
Id have wanted to be there for the whole thing.
It would have been nice to see someone from this state get it with a long awaited draw.
Post by: Blackstar on September 05, 2008, 07:47:35 AM
The hunt is LEGAL. The government allows it. No wrong was done. No laws broken. That said, hunters should not have a huge problem with it. If it was illegal, yes, you should be mad, and rightfully so. But its NOT. You cant argue with that. So guys, bottom line is you are going to have to deal with it. It will not change. It happens in every western state every year. Always has. Always will.
This will not satisfy those of you that are against this type of tag. But logic never sways fanatics from their way of thinking.
Post by: Idabooner on September 05, 2008, 08:00:01 AM
well put DOUBLELUNG, Nice to see someone that can sit back and analyze rather than jump on the bandwagon with the rest.+1 :yeah:
Post by: skynyr on September 05, 2008, 08:10:04 AM
Very well put Blackstar!
Post by: EastWaViking on September 05, 2008, 08:31:29 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 05, 2008, 08:42:32 AM
Post by: tlbradford on September 05, 2008, 09:11:39 AM
I'd rather have little brother. He will crush the typical record.
That is the one in my horse trailer.
I don't hold anything against this gentleman. In some respects, I feel sorry for him. His life is reduced to trying to cram in and create special moments by using his vast resources. I have a hard time believing he feels a huge sense of accomplishment, or pride in hunting this way. It is a trophy to hang on the wall and to gain noteriety of being the man that shot the record bull. Unless he is an incredibly shallow human being, he would probably look you in the eye and tell you that he would much rather leave the rat race for a couple of weeks and actually enjoy the hunting experience.
He does not have that opportunity, and all of you should appreciate being able to do what he cannot. Money doesn't always buy you happiness.
Post by: backwoods_boy on September 05, 2008, 09:15:31 AM
Post by: Lowedog on September 05, 2008, 09:22:08 AM
It's also not much different, in my book, than Joe Hunters lobbying the Game department for permit opportunities to kill mule deer bucks on winter range, the few days of the year they are rut dumb and vulnerable when passing on their genes ... these harvests occur at the expense of the general hunting public's opportunity to take them.
Big differance between Joe Hunter drawing a late tag and going DIY on anything than what happens on these high profile auction tags. This bull was pimped out and that to me is the sickening thing.
More power to the guy for having the money to buy the tag and thanks for spending it in our state to enrich our elk herds.
These type of hunts are no more of an accomplishment than if they were high fence hunts. The biggest differance is that the hunters get to enter their name into the record books because it's considered fair chase.
When Joe Hunter draws a permit he doesn't have a team of paid watchers keeping track of trophy animal so he can fly in and take the shot. No finders fee. Most of the late buck permit tags are filled by the first four point buck Joe comes across. Don't forget also that these late permit buck hunts occur in November and that the general season back in th good old days when people used to trophy hunt during the general season extended into November. Essentially Joe just wants to have an oppurtunity to hunt when bucks are rutting and the migration kicks in like he used to back in the day.
I like your comment about the snowmobiles and helicopter though! :chuckle: I remember that. Those two spent a lot of time hunting that year though. they didn't pay some one to sit on an elk or find one for them, they paid a helicopter pilot to haul their elk out.
-Lowedog
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2008, 09:45:11 AM
Don't forget also that these late permit buck hunts occur in November and that the general season back in th good old days when people used to trophy hunt during the general season extended into November. Essentially Joe just wants to have an oppurtunity to hunt when bucks are rutting and the migration kicks in like he used to back in the day.
:yeah: I wouldn't imagine there are too many of us on here that actually hunted back then so the majority of the people on here don't realize this, not their fault. I little do diligence on their part however would prevent some of these obtuse comments, well said Lowedog.
Post by: TheKid#10 on September 05, 2008, 09:56:01 AM
KID
Post by: MichaelJ on September 05, 2008, 09:57:42 AM
Don't forget also that these late permit buck hunts occur in November and that the general season back in th good old days when people used to trophy hunt during the general season extended into November. Essentially Joe just wants to have an oppurtunity to hunt when bucks are rutting and the migration kicks in like he used to back in the day.
:yeah: I wouldn't imagine there are too many of us on here that actually hunted back then so the majority of the people on here don't realize this, not their fault. I little do diligence on their part however would prevent some of these obtuse comments, well said Lowedog.
Hell I'm 19 and knew about the change in seasons since I was 15... It is pretty common knowledge to those that like hunting. Consider that I'm the youngest of 4 children and the first one in my entire family to hunt and I still know this.....
As for this hunt, congrats to the guy. I would definitely buy the tag but would use my own resources to hunt this bull... But that's how I would do things, apparently this guy is different. Like others say, he can't feel too much of an accomplishment for just pulling the trigger. I honestly wonder if he packed out a quarter of the bull or even the head/horns....
Michael
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2008, 09:59:58 AM
Post by: tlbradford on September 05, 2008, 10:26:49 AM
That might be a good question for any geneticists on the site, how many cows would this bull have bred in the last few years and how likely is it that offspring will develope the same results
I don't know the answer to that, but I imagine all the cows dropped their panties and assumed the position when this stud walked by.
Post by: GoldTip on September 05, 2008, 10:40:25 AM
But most likely the area this bull came from will continue to produce some very good bulls, quite possibly never another bull like him however. It's no different in humans, look at an Olympic athlete, how many of them have siblings? Same Mother, Same Father, but the siblings are maybe not even considered athletes and some are no better than average. How many pro-athletes end up with off-spring who are also incredible athletes? Not very many, so I guess my answer is this, will he have produced some more incredible bulls to all of us average Joe hunters? Yes. Will he have produced another record shattering off-spring? Doubtful.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 05, 2008, 10:45:46 AM
Thanks Jeff.
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2008, 10:57:27 AM
How many pro-athletes end up with off-spring who are also incredible athletes?
Holiday Inn, now thats funny :chuckle:
I appreciate your comment GT just not sure I agree with it. There has to be something to the whole gene passing thing I would think, after all, why are people paying millions of dollars every year for thoroughbred semen? Surely this would work with elk as well would it not? :dunno:
Post by: backwoods_boy on September 05, 2008, 10:59:08 AM
so what is the final thoughts..
is the big dog dead or alive?
haha
Post by: Diehard0123 on September 05, 2008, 11:27:35 AM
I think the anger on this site is valid, In my opinion this was not fair chase. Was it ethical? That is yet to be determined. One question that should be raised is that its illegal to fly in a plane within 24 hours of harvesting an animal with the exception of comercial aircraft (airliner) I wonder if this was the case or not.
Post by: GoldTip on September 05, 2008, 11:34:46 AM
Let's put it this way, you seem like a reasonably intelligent guy. And I am sure you probably are married to a quite beautiful and intelligent woman. Now more than likely you have some terrific and talented kids who are at least reasonably athletic and intelligent. Now, run on down to one of the local backwoods taverns and start spreading your seed amongst the 50lbs over weight, tank top wearing double toothed gals with an over bite. My guess is those one's aint even gonna resemble the kids you currently have. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry man, I couldn't resist.
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2008, 11:53:22 AM
Now, run on down to one of the local backwoods taverns and start spreading your seed amongst the 50lbs over weight, tank top wearing double toothed gals with an over bite. My guess is those one's aint even gonna resemble the kids you currently have. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry man, I couldn't resist.
I hear ya but laws of average would say he got some quality tail as well not just trailer trash :chuckle: :jacked: Sorry about the hijack.
Post by: plague on September 05, 2008, 11:55:31 AM
Go ahead and be angry. See where it gets you. No where.
It was fair chase. It was ethical. I WAS there. I witnessed it. It may have been an easy hunt, but that is the definition of hunting. Sometimes its incredibly hard. Sometimes simple. You cannot know the outcome before hand. The bull had been down deeeep in a canyon just one day prior. He moved up because he wanted to. No one forced that elk to come up closer to the road. I honestly believed there was a high probability that we could not get him due to the terrain, the hunters limitations and the fact that the bull was moving so much. It looked bleak. But, the hunter was LUCKY. It moved right up to an open ridge....Thats not unethical. What does one do in that situation. Turn around because its too easy? Go home? No, you capitilze on the bulls mistake.
Many people were part of this hunt. They did not fence him in. Did not pressure him. Just watched and learned. Thats hunting. Knowing your quarry. Scouting. Being out there. I did it. I did my homework. It could have went the other way and we never would have saw it again. Great. Thats hunting.
The hunter did his part. Its over. Give some respect to a great animal. Truly a trophy of a lifetime from a state that is not even mentioned in Eastmans or Trophy Hunter. Our state gets no respect. Maybe now it will. The tags are already impossible to get and it wont get any easier for the rest of us. Tough. Go hunt up at 49 degress north. You can shoot whatever you want there. Bitterness and anger will not get you any closer to a 450 bull.
Post by: DeKuma on September 05, 2008, 11:59:29 AM
So, being you were there, GREAT JOB. How about more pictures and some story to go with the whole experience??
Post by: plague on September 05, 2008, 12:04:37 PM
Post by: DeKuma on September 05, 2008, 12:12:02 PM
Post by: Lowedog on September 05, 2008, 12:37:35 PM
How could someone who was not part of the hunt, who truly knows nothing of what went on, say that he does not think it was fair chase? Wow. Dude. You don't have a clue and you should admit it. You live hundreds of miles away, how could you?
Go ahead and be angry. See where it gets you. No where.
It was fair chase. It was ethical. I WAS there. I witnessed it. It may have been an easy hunt, but that is the definition of hunting. Sometimes its incredibly hard. Sometimes simple. You cannot know the outcome before hand. The bull had been down deeeep in a canyon just one day prior. He moved up because he wanted to. No one forced that elk to come up closer to the road. I honestly believed there was a high probability that we could not get him due to the terrain, the hunters limitations and the fact that the bull was moving so much. It looked bleak. But, the hunter was LUCKY. It moved right up to an open ridge....Thats not unethical. What does one do in that situation. Turn around because its too easy? Go home? No, you capitilze on the bulls mistake.
Many people were part of this hunt. They did not fence him in. Did not pressure him. Just watched and learned. Thats hunting. Knowing your quarry. Scouting. Being out there. I did it. I did my homework. It could have went the other way and we never would have saw it again. Great. Thats hunting.
The hunter did his part. Its over. Give some respect to a great animal. Truly a trophy of a lifetime from a state that is not even mentioned in Eastmans or Trophy Hunter. Our state gets no respect. Maybe now it will. The tags are already impossible to get and it wont get any easier for the rest of us. Tough. Go hunt up at 49 degress north. You can shoot whatever you want there. Bitterness and anger will not get you any closer to a 450 bull.
I don't know about anyone else on here but I'm not angry. Sickened that our wildlife is being pimped out to the highest bidder would be more like it. :puke:
Fair chase? What's your definition of fair chase? How much did you get paid for your part in this "hunt"?
I don't think anyone here is being too criticle of this guy for taking advantage of his recourses. I am in awe of the animal itself. I don't have any ill feeling towards any of the guys who do this. Any hard feelings I have are with the states for pimping out the animals and it does bother me that these animals are basically singled out by certain individuals and pretty much sold to the highest bidder at auction. Prior to 2 seasons ago the highest one of these tags sold for here in WA was $22K, less than half of the 2007 tag that was purchased after this bulls sheds were found.
Awesome bull but I'm not going to congradulate anyone for killing it or for being part of it.
-Lowedog
Post by: bucklucky on September 05, 2008, 02:33:41 PM
Post by: ThePascoKid on September 05, 2008, 02:37:31 PM
Post by: Broken Arrow on September 05, 2008, 03:13:14 PM
I can tell you this, I personally saw those pictures before they were posted on this sight as I took my nephew to turkey hunt on private land in Waitsburg, where the pics were forwarded. My fiend who also post on this site, held these antelers prior to the post....it was just a matter of time until they got out (not blaming anyone).
My father used to have a saying before he passed; those that gots the money, makes the rules!
I don't know this guy from Adam, and any specualtaion on my part about him as a hunter/ shooter is just that. All i know is that he paid for the tag, and killed the bull. The rest to me is irevalant. I can't change the laws or change the ways WDFW does buisness, but I can be in control of myself. I plan on hunting the enire elk season for archery, wether I kill a cow, rag or trophy i will find solace in my own deed...I imagine this guy fells the same.
Post by: steeleywhopper on September 05, 2008, 04:36:21 PM
Post by: wrangler on September 05, 2008, 05:50:40 PM
The government allows it. No wrong was done. No laws broken. That said, hunters should not have a huge problem with it.
this is the dumbest thing iv heard in long time. because the GOVERNMENT allows it hunters should not have a problem with it? last i checked the government allows a lot of things that a lot of people dont like, just cause they allow it doesn't mean anyone has to be ok with it.... ITS NOT HUNTING. PURE AND SIMPLE. congrats to the dude for killing a bull of a life time, he can hang it on his wall and tell all the magizines whatever he wants but it's plainly obvious what happend here. he bought a bull. good for him, happens all the time. but what do you say to the old man that hunts the general season for spikes and finally drew that tag after 30 years? he shouldn't have to compete with this garbage. none of us should. im tryin hard to see the 'other' side of the story here... i just can't past the fact this is what 'hunting' has come to, and it ain't gonna get any better.... sad.
Post by: timber tiger on September 05, 2008, 06:07:50 PM
Post by: BC CHASER on September 05, 2008, 06:15:58 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 05, 2008, 08:03:36 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 05, 2008, 08:05:13 PM
Post by: yelp on September 05, 2008, 08:34:48 PM
Post by: Ray on September 05, 2008, 08:45:00 PM
Post by: BENCHLEG on September 05, 2008, 09:02:21 PM
Post by: bornforhorns on September 05, 2008, 10:42:42 PM
Quote
"I honestly believed there was a high probability that we could not get him due to the terrain, the hunters limitations and the fact that the bull was moving so much."
There you go...that says it all. I believe it's the majority opinion, legal or illegal, it's not the right way to do it. If you're lucky and healthy you get 30 or 40 good years of hard hunting...if you can't do it the right way...move over and let the next generation take over. Bottom line, the elk was bought out. Booo! for auction tags. Were not hurting for money that bad.
Lowedog, wastickslinger, etc. and many others glad to see there's at least some people who get it.
For richer or poorer...the man has poor judgement...but I guess that's legal too. :bdid:
I'm truly sad that there are actually guys who can stick up for something like this...people on here are suppose to "get it".
Post by: BC CHASER on September 05, 2008, 11:04:12 PM
I'm truly sad that there are actually guys who can stick up for something like this...people on here are suppose to "get it".
[/quote]
So should disabled people not hunt? What is the right way? As long as it was legal I think it is right. I will stick up for any hunter who does their thing legally! Did you put in for the SE tags this year? Did you know about this bull 3 years ago? All great things must come to an end and this bull died not at the hand of a poacher or the tribes but a man who donates a lot of money to the thing he loves doing. In the long run he has helped every hunter in this state out a bit. I'm not being an a$$ but it is done and sounds like it was all legal.
Post by: BENCHLEG on September 05, 2008, 11:13:54 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on September 06, 2008, 04:32:19 AM
So whats everyones thoughts on going up to canada to hunt black bears over bait?
Lets see, you fly up there. Pay the place to take you out. Sit there with a weapon of your choice in a treestand, over a bait that other folks put there and kept up. Then the bear comes out, you shoot it and fly home. HMMMMM? sounds similar huh? Now does everyone at that location hop on line and start screaming about some idiot that shot a pimped out bear, and he didn't deserve it, it was shooting not hunting, BLAH BLAH BLAH. I don't think so.
Another question, If this was your everyday run of the mill bull would you guys have such a problem with it?
Jealousy is a horrible thing, and I'm sorry that alot of you folks are suffering because of it.
Great Point Miles... I for one agree that if this bull wasn't such a shattering utterably HUGE bull, the controversy wouldn't even be close.... but then again we have to face the fact that if a bull this size WASN'T taken, then hardly any of us would've been allowed to see the end results and hear the story.... There's a HUGE grey area here. I for one think the guy isn't much of a hunter and I don't respect him at all.... I do however realize the money that he's put into our state economy (hopefully for the better of our elk herds), and I thank him for that. Respect or agree? HELL NO. Do I personally have a problem, yeah kinda. I think it's wrong for our resources to be exploited like it was. But hey that's the way things are and I have to deal with them.
As for Plague, I think that all you guides (yes, how many were you and how much did each of you get dollar wise? Until you let us know, I'm sorry but you have made yourself a marked person on this site...) deserve some respect for keeping tabs on the bull. Hell if I could make a lot of $$$ by helping some rich guy shoot a bull I would probably do it. No disrespect here. But to call it fair chase would be something different.
Michael
Post by: Bookworm on September 06, 2008, 05:47:40 AM
Post by: bucklucky on September 06, 2008, 07:52:15 AM
I know what would make this all better, If the guides that helped Agnew kill that bull would help me out with my bull permit and help me find my 400 bull for free! Just to experiance a guy with no money that has the determination and drive to kill a big bull with my bow! So, what do ya think ;) :chuckle:
Well , I thought it was worth a try :chuckle:
Post by: M_ray on September 06, 2008, 08:01:07 AM
Quote
Well , I thought it was worth a try
Why not Charlie!
Wow all it takes is to kill a monster bull in Washington to turn this site into MM huh?
watch out they'll start calling us Washingturds!
Post by: Coasthunterjay on September 06, 2008, 08:06:16 AM
I thought he said landed in walla walla, I thought you guys had Mr. 450 tied up some where near 49 North. :chuckle:\
not sure but i have hunted the walla walla area since i was 12 and i have seen several 400 plus sized elk there......would supprise me at all........
there is a reason why they only give a couple tags there a year...........
HUGE BULLS!
Post by: BrushChimp on September 06, 2008, 08:21:46 AM
Something to remember is that there are many bulls in the area over 400. It's just a matter of time before another big'gun is killed.
Post by: NRA4LIFE on September 06, 2008, 08:22:12 AM
I believe that would be Washingtards!
All kidding aside, I hope like heck that the raffle tag holder was in no way prevented from getting this monster for any reason. Just my thoughts.
Post by: catwithboost on September 06, 2008, 09:15:25 AM
Post by: Professor Chaos on September 06, 2008, 09:25:55 AM
I dont like the fact that this rich guy can fly around in his private jet and have guys waiting to take him to monster bulls but it is what it is and we arent going to change that.
I actually have more of a problem with the guys that babysat this bull until they could sell him out.
Post by: Bigshooter on September 06, 2008, 10:56:09 AM
Post by: MountainWalk on September 06, 2008, 11:03:43 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 06, 2008, 11:09:18 AM
Post by: wf70gonehunting on September 06, 2008, 12:32:44 PM
Post by: scoyoc5 on September 06, 2008, 12:40:16 PM
Post by: ThePascoKid on September 06, 2008, 01:02:03 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 06, 2008, 01:04:37 PM
BigShooter-little different scenario I'd say. Just a little.
What if it scores over 400?
Only difference I see is the price.
Post by: Caseyd on September 06, 2008, 01:39:50 PM
Quote from: Bigshooter link=topic=11007.msg124504#msg124504 date=1220731477
Only difference I see is the price.
[/quote
Only difference I see is the price.
[/quote
Well now you are just stirring the pot. Why bother, some will say yes and some will say no!!
Yes you are right about the price!!
*Can an admin lock this thread to prevent further comments...it is about 5 threads in 1 now*
Post by: wastickslinger on September 06, 2008, 04:27:12 PM
I still see a big big difference. I am not knockig the guy but I still see a huge difference between you and a buddy hunting together and what took place this week with the pimped out bull.
I will say no more on the subject cause I could care less. That bull would have died of old age before I drew that tag. Besides that, even had I drawn it I would never have found him.
I really hope the guy is happy with a magnificant bull!!!!!
Post by: Bigshooter on September 06, 2008, 04:51:44 PM
Bigshooter-so your going to go call it in, then your buddy will fly in on a jet, shoot it, fly out the same day with the horns only. Oh, and on top of that give you a fat stack of hundred dollar bills. Are you going to go without your buddy for a few weeks in advance and keep tabs on his bull?
I still see a big big difference. I am not knockig the guy but I still see a huge difference between you and a buddy hunting together and what took place this week with the pimped out bull.
I will say no more on the subject cause I could care less. That bull would have died of old age before I drew that tag. Besides that, even had I drawn it I would never have found him.
I really hope the guy is happy with a magnificant bull!!!!!
Again, the only difference is how much money my buddy is going to spend on his hunt.
Post by: wastickslinger on September 06, 2008, 05:19:49 PM
Post by: BluMtHunter on September 06, 2008, 05:54:52 PM
The Governor's Tag helps to provide this state with much needed services for wildlife that we would not otherwise have. The person who buys the tag is getting a coveted trophy tag that any of us would love to be able to a have. I suppose when the guy doesn't go out and actually hunt for the animal like the rest of us have to, we get a bit ticked off, right or wrong. Maybe some changes need to be made to the way the tag(s) are used to prevent the controversy that apparently surrounds this years elk tag. It isn't just that this particular elk was taken; it was the way it was apparently done that has so many up in arms. Unfortunate. When this state went to the point system it made for big bulls but with a wait of 10-12 years between chances to get drawn, you have some angry hunters when this kind of crap comes down. And when one of the shed pictures that have already been posted here earlier is taken to the RMEF auction in order to boost the price for this tag...? Well, makes me wonder if this is a good thing at all. Pimping bull elk for money!! >:( :bdid:
There are many rumors, unanswered questions. People who were friends of these so-called trackers & guides (Oregon Guides have no valid license in WA and what is this crap about special permit for the Umatilla Forest Land??) as well as many on these forums would like to know the whole story about this elk hunt. What is the big secret??? I don't think the real truth will ever be known.
"Vote Republican"
Post by: catwithboost on September 06, 2008, 06:17:55 PM
Post by: BluMtHunter on September 06, 2008, 09:59:12 PM
Post by: high country on September 06, 2008, 10:49:57 PM
I have a birth defect that prohibits me from shooting deer from open fields, although I have many friends and family that invite me every year, I will instead hike and sweat my arse off during the high country hunt, and IF I connect, and that can be a pretty big if some years, I will consider it a proud trophy. only other guys that hunt similar areas can truly understand what it takes to bring home a winner.
I am happy that the state pulled some resource from the hunt.
I hope that hunter felt 1/2 as good as I did the day I came home with any of my trophies.
I am interested to hear the story of this hunt, not the edited version.
Post by: javman on September 07, 2008, 12:45:40 AM
And then automatically enter everyone who buys an elk tag into a raffle for the same special privilege.
Just a thought.
Post by: PA BEN on September 07, 2008, 05:42:50 AM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 07, 2008, 07:27:56 AM
Then yes I disagree with you camping out on a bull for him to pull the trigger on. I think your frined would appreciate a few more days in the field with you before he drives up and smokes the bull that you put all the work into. i wold think he would enjoy to learn how to hunt and call them in too. To each his own. Sounds like your buddy likes the thrill of the kill and nothing more. I got no problem with that.
So you don't have a problem with my buddy killing an elk that I have been watching, but you do have a problem with somebody spending 1000's of dollars to kill an animal that he has paid someone to watched for him? Makes a lot of sense.
Or are you upset because we won't be able to "enjoy" the hunt, because it only lasted a short amount of time? Maybe will wait 5 or 6 days to kill him, that way we will have more time to "enjoy" the hunt. Then nobody will be mad because we got lucky and were able to kill him on the first day.
Post by: tmike on September 07, 2008, 09:17:49 AM
Post by: M_ray on September 07, 2008, 11:12:01 AM
M_ray,
I believe that would be Washingtards!
All kidding aside, I hope like heck that the raffle tag holder was in no way prevented from getting this monster for any reason. Just my thoughts.
No not really ... my impression is that tards are from Utah!
And I don't know about this years raffle winner but last year it seemed the Boi's and Game managers gave my friend all that they knew to help him get in the game with the big boy's.
Post by: wastickslinger on September 07, 2008, 01:03:57 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 07, 2008, 01:25:24 PM
Bigshooter-I never said I had a problem with him spending the money to kill the bull. That was never my point. You are still missing it. It was the method in which it was taken. Even at that, I said I could care less. Just like I could care less that you put in all the work for your buddy and he will drive up load his bull and take it back and hang it in his high rise office in Seattle and brag to all his buddies about how hard he worked for his bull while your sitting at home looking at a picture of his bull thinking about hard how ayour worked for him. If he can live with that then that is fine. There are many guys who hunt "kill" like that all over the world. That is great it is also too bad for them that they will never know what hunting is really all about.
So only guys that buy a general season tag and hunt by themselves know what hunting is about?
So if my dad ends up killing a buck that I have been watching this summer on opening day, he is just killing a deer. He doesn't know what hunting is really all about? You have got to be kidding me. I have more fun watching people getting to kill, than me killing it.
Again the only difference that I see between the two is the money spent.
Post by: Diehard0123 on September 07, 2008, 02:54:32 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 07, 2008, 04:47:55 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on September 07, 2008, 05:35:41 PM
BigShot-your the man! I will not attemp to state my opinion any more. You are right about everything you say. Do you feel better.
Did I upset you :sry:.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on September 07, 2008, 08:42:35 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 07, 2008, 08:44:47 PM
WOW, All I keep thinking about is this site probably helped kill that bull.. If it can do that for someone else one day it might for me. :)
that bull has been big news for at least 2 years since the 440 sheds got picked up...this site is about 1.5 years old...people have known that bull before the sheds were picked up, so pretty sure this site had nothing to do with that bull getting killed. he was killed less than a mile from the road too. he was no secret.
Post by: rosscrazyelk on September 07, 2008, 08:48:01 PM
Post by: provider on September 08, 2008, 12:14:40 PM
First of all, this notion that just because something is legal, makes it acceptable, is complete nonsense. And so too is any resignation based on the idea that because other states or countries do it, so should we. Would you jump off a cliff just because others did? We do have a say in the rules and regulations, in the way our state agencies “do business”, and have an obligation to actively participate in the process. Collectively we can change anything we want, and not allow money to dictate how things will be.
That word “business” is much of the problem. I am very concerned with this trend and seeing those support commercializing our wildlife resources, eroding away at our hunting heritage, compromising our traditional hunting values, and diminishing from the true meaning of the hunting experience. And this all for money? For recognition? For ego? Whatever the reasoning it is unacceptable.
I’m insulted by some people suggesting that by being critical of this situation only means sour grapes, envy, jealousy, and then further suggesting most of us would do it too if we had the means. Well, I assure you not all of us would compromise our values.
The fact is this guy would not have got that elk without buying a network. So, the network shares some responsibility. I’m not trying to pick on any one person with this, but one post even acknowledged it being “wrong to exploit the resource” and the next sentence admitting he too “would probably do it”. Another stated (paraphrasing) “having more fun watching people kill, than doing the killing himself”. That’s fine… but it is not hunting. Hiring an Outfitter to maintain a bait station for you and then flying in to sit over it, setting trail cams to scout for you, or having a huge entourage of humans all over the place looking for an animal for you, are all questionable in my opinion.
Auction (and raffle) programs make me uncomfortable. Don’t kid yourself if you think everyone has an equal chance in the raffles, and certainly only the very wealthy have a shot at the auction tags. This then is a customized opportunity, exclusive allocation for the wealthy. Not good. And don’t be fooled into believing these guys are such great humanitarians, conservationists, and donating this money. If they were, they would give to the cause without taking the special treatment at the expense of the rest of us. Wildlife belongs to all of us and we should share in the cost to manage them with equal opportunity to utilize.
Wow, what a great elk!
Post by: MountainWalk on September 08, 2008, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: tlbradford on September 08, 2008, 01:03:50 PM
Post by: plague on September 08, 2008, 01:35:51 PM
All hunters that make over $100 K cannot hunt. Their income allows them too many shortcuts to the trophy, all of which are unethical.
The use of all aircraft, for all types of transportation, as it pertains to hunting, is illegal and immoral. All hunters must hitch hike or ride bikes to all hunts.
All hunts must be a minimum of two weeks. Short hunts are too easy and therefore not fair chase. How can you appreciate any animal you yourself did not sweat blood for?
The use of guides/outfitters is reprehensible and illegal. If you cannot do it by yourself, your not a hunter and do not deserve any animal. Your merely a murderer of wildlife.
Scouting pre-season is illegal. You should have no idea where the animals are. This, and only this, is fair chase.
Friends must not accompany you on the hunt. This is not fair chase. It must be one man/woman vs. the animal. Any help is a sign of immorality and weakness.
All hunts must be evaluated by the experts on this site. Any hunt not sanctioned by this site is wrong, unethical and probably poaching.
All hunts that are bought, even lottery tags, are absolutely forbidden. Us hunters that cant afford ten dollars for a raffle should not be punished by you wealthy hunters that can afford to buy a ticket or two. Shame on you for potentially taking the chance from my son/daughter/wife.
Advertising trophy animals on the internet is a death sentence to them. Keep your pictures to yourself. Why should someone else get their hopes built up by the knowledge that they might draw and tag and then might kill a trophy.
Freedom of choice is out. Old school. The new commandments of hunting cannot allow any deviation from the rules set up the righteous hunters on this site. To disobey is un-American and blasphemous. Band together all you sheep..........
Post by: Bigshooter on September 08, 2008, 01:39:53 PM
I love it. Only thing I would have added is you can only hunt with rocks and hand made spears.
If this bull would have scored 340, we would not even be talking about this.
Post by: MountainWalk on September 08, 2008, 01:41:15 PM
Post by: HawkenBob on September 08, 2008, 01:49:20 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on September 08, 2008, 01:50:43 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on September 08, 2008, 01:54:09 PM
Post by: Ray on September 08, 2008, 02:02:59 PM
I cannot afford a horse but I don't call people who use horses cheats. I don't own a motorcycle or even 4 WD vehicle but I don't call people cheats who zip around on muddy and snowy roads in winter using such mechanical advantages.
This guy could have spent his money on something else and in the end I am glad he did not.
Post by: tlbradford on September 08, 2008, 02:21:17 PM
This and the wolves issue are probably the two biggest "hot button" topics on the site.
I hear you asking for respect from all those with differing opinions, but I don't see you giving any out. You came to this site why? To defend this one particular hunt? If you don't care what is being said here, then why bother to post in the first place?
I am just wondering if you are going to be a long term contributor willing to share stories and experiences, or just someone who is going to drop in here, and lump everyone on this site as a lesser class of hunter because we aren't a high profile guide such as yourself?
I hope all new member to the site, not just you, would take an hour or so to read some of the post from the past year and a half, and realize that this is a great community, even if 1500+ people can't always agree on everything.
Post by: Ray on September 08, 2008, 02:27:15 PM
I agree that plague is starting off on the wrong foot and that he is probably only instigating a never ending feud.
Post by: wastickslinger on September 08, 2008, 02:39:18 PM
Post by: Ray on September 08, 2008, 02:43:03 PM