Post by: bankwalker on November 19, 2012, 09:56:13 AM
It's basically a rounded (contour of the action) piece of plastic. It mounts to the drill scope mount holes on his rifles. And it sits just barely, like 1/32 of an inch off the action so the primer is still exposed to elements.
It's mounted by little metal pegs that barely squeeze into the scope mount holes, so he can pull it on and off to put new primers on and off.
So is this legal :dunno:
It's a pretty slick invention and doesn't interfere with the sights at all.
Post by: MountainWalk on November 19, 2012, 09:57:50 AM
Post by: h20hunter on November 19, 2012, 09:58:31 AM
Post by: Bob33 on November 19, 2012, 10:28:57 AM
Ignition is to be wheel lock, matchlock, flintlock, or percussion using original style percussion caps that fit on the nipple and are exposed to the weather. "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper. Primers designed to be used in modern cartridges are not legal.
Post by: Mongo Hunter on November 19, 2012, 11:54:38 AM
Post by: Bob33 on November 19, 2012, 12:07:02 PM
But I have heard "them" say it before..."its up to the interpretation of the officer". Great line that our government workers to use for the supposed non existant grey areas in the laws.First, I've never heard any WDFW enforcement officer say there are no gray areas. All of them I know understand there are. Second, WDFW does not write the laws; they enforce them.
How would you write this law so it is crystal clear and not open to interpretation, and achieves the desired objective?
Post by: Mongo Hunter on November 19, 2012, 12:14:31 PM
But I have heard "them" say it before..."its up to the interpretation of the officer". Great line that our government workers to use for the supposed non existant grey areas in the laws.First, I've never heard any WDFW enforcement officer say there are no gray areas. All of them I know understand there are. Second, WDFW does not write the laws; they enforce them.
How would you write this law so it is crystal clear and not open to interpretation, and achieves the desired objective?
Easy watch:
Rule 1: Primers must be exposed to the elements, no ifs ands or buts. :IBCOOL:
see easy :chuckle:
The fact that he said: "It mounts to the drill scope mount holes on his rifles" they could argue its "part of the gun", or maybe they can call it an illeagle modification to the gun, or however he want to write it up so he can stick you with a ticket.
I know what your saying trust me I know, I have a good friend that works for WDFW and we don't always see eye to eye. I'm not trying to be a smart ass but I just don't trust government workers all the time and I prefer not to give them any excuses.
Post by: whacker1 on November 19, 2012, 12:17:20 PM
Post by: MountainWalk on November 19, 2012, 01:37:51 PM
Post by: BiggLuke on November 19, 2012, 02:17:28 PM
he sadi, "Think about the rule like this, could you do the same thing back in the 1800's?"
Like covering the frizen with a piece of rainslick or deer leather... i.e. plastic.
Those old trappers and what not used all kinds of things to keep theirs dry.
I even met an old dude at a rondevue shoot who demonstated using beaver tallow, or pig fat, to cover up the nipple after you seated on a primer, on an old hawken style rifle.
He just loaded up, put the primer on, then put a big ole fat smear of grease on the primer and breach area. When he fired it, the grease just got smooshed, and BANG!!
of went the primer then gun.
He pointed out though... that it was a bitch to clean afterwards, and really hard to reload again without cleaning, but....
If you were hunting in the rain for your food for you life... it was an exceptable trade off.
just my :twocents:
I've even seen guys using saran wrap over their guns.
Post by: BK Dave on November 19, 2012, 02:29:16 PM
Post by: lokidog on November 19, 2012, 02:32:19 PM
Sorry. don't know if you attachment would be legal or not. If you can see the cap from any angle, I would think it would be legal as some of the "legal" inlines seem to only leave a tiny viewing window open. But again, I have no special knowledge of this reg.
Post by: whacker1 on November 19, 2012, 05:02:27 PM
I don't know about you guys but my caps seem pretty tight on my MLs, I'd be more worried about water seeping down the barrel past my bullet than getting around the nipple. If your cap is loose, get the #10s which are slightly smaller and just press it on with smooth pressure.
Sorry. don't know if you attachment would be legal or not. If you can see the cap from any angle, I would think it would be legal as some of the "legal" inlines seem to only leave a tiny viewing window open. But again, I have no special knowledge of this reg.
For me, it is not about moisture direct, but rather condensation. The rain gets on or around the cap and what started as dry condenses through the course of the day. And yes the same is true from the barrel end with pulling moisture around the sabot. several guys I know are putting scotch tape over the barrel end and clear packing tape over the breach/bolt open area. I have pondered it, but didn't know if it was legal on the breach end.
Post by: Sabotloader on November 19, 2012, 05:21:55 PM
I don't know about you guys but my caps seem pretty tight on my MLs, I'd be more worried about water seeping down the barrel past my bullet than getting around the nipple. If your cap is loose, get the #10s which are slightly smaller and just press it on with smooth pressure.
Sorry. don't know if you attachment would be legal or not. If you can see the cap from any angle, I would think it would be legal as some of the "legal" inlines seem to only leave a tiny viewing window open. But again, I have no special knowledge of this reg.
For me, it is not about moisture direct, but rather condensation. The rain gets on or around the cap and what started as dry condenses through the course of the day. And yes the same is true from the barrel end with pulling moisture around the sabot. several guys I know are putting scotch tape over the barrel end and clear packing tape over the breach/bolt open area. I have pondered it, but didn't know if it was legal on the breach end.
Couple of thoughts, for the muzzle they make "Muzzle Mitts" - these are not an integral part of the muzzleloader and are legal to use...
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FMuzMittwithband.jpg&hash=5d4b40faea2d7ba9a1c929c952706cd1613b8fe2)
Lots of diffrent ways to legally protect the bore just as they use to do in the old days...
Probably the best and strongest muzzle mitt I have found is from 'Ultimate Bore Protection"
http://bighornproducts.com/ultimateboreprotection.htm (http://bighornproducts.com/ultimateboreprotection.htm)
One a sidehammer a simple plastic wrap works for protection from moisture. Just pull the trigger and the hammer drops on the wrap and fires the cap. Again legal as is not a integral part of the rifle.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2Fcapwrap.jpg&hash=f631a614e15eda63d4ae0615dac46369bcf434ff)
If you get the the right nipple and get the correct fit of the cap to the nipple it can become nearly water proof also. I use the AMPCO #11 nipples strictly for this reason. Some people do not like them becasue they stretch the cap and you have to use a knife to get it off.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv130%2Fsabotloader%2FAMPCO11.jpg&hash=91f9432bb027924778dbc88307b5c985adc2b299)
And in the Pac Northwest, where scopes are not allowed the simple cap wrap works very well.
All of these meet the letter and the intention of the rules.
Post by: sebek556 on November 19, 2012, 05:36:17 PM
Post by: bankwalker on November 19, 2012, 08:40:44 PM
The exposed primer has been the only thing keeping me from muzzy hunting. I already have enough stupid little mishaps while hunting that have prevented me from killing big bucks. And I don't need to add a wet primer to that list :chuckle:
Post by: jbeaumont21 on November 19, 2012, 08:58:43 PM
Post by: kenzmad on November 19, 2012, 09:26:40 PM
I have used clear fingernail polish around the seal of the cap and nipple and it worked great. Dried very fast and cleaned up real easy.
used nail polish for 20 years. never a misfire. the new muskecaps with the slits up the sides are a pain to keep dry.