Post by: crazymofo on September 05, 2008, 10:25:05 AM
Post by: EastWaViking on September 05, 2008, 10:29:45 AM
At 20-40 yards there isn't much reaction time, at 100 it could step forward, duck, turn, etc, then you are searching
for a gut shot animal. If a person is able to kill game at 100 yards and never wound one...good for them, but, it's
nothing I would ever try.
Post by: tlbradford on September 05, 2008, 10:31:03 AM
And in my opinion if an archer cant shoot a clay pigeon 4 out of 5 times at 40 yds. then they shouldn't be bow hunting.
I probably couldn't hit a clay pigeon at 40 yards 80% of the time because of reduced practice time, but I can at 30 yards. So is it ok for me to bowhunt?
Post by: huntnphool on September 05, 2008, 11:07:41 AM
Post by: Bscman on September 05, 2008, 11:22:26 AM
I have no problem with people taking 50, 60, even 80yd shots with their bows....if they're confident, well practiced, and have good equipment.
At 80yds my arrows are really reaching high...so I'm not going to try it...but with modern bows, 70-80yds is just as attainable as 40yds with an older compound bow.
The key is practice and knowing your limits.
Too many people take "wishful" thoughts just because the animal is a bit bigger, or the season is nearing it's end....and too many animals get wounded and not recovered because of it!
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 05, 2008, 11:34:10 AM
I quit reading hunting magazines because you can go to the store, pick up any hunting magazine and somewhere in it some pansy will tell you its "unethical" to shoot at anything thats not broadside or further than 40 yds. Last time i checked the goal of most real hunters is to "harvest" an animal. If that means 5 yards or 100 yds i dont think "ethics" has anything to do with it. If you can make the shot thats all that counts. Either way its not gonna end good for the animal.
Do you mean "pansy's" like chuck adams and the guys that regularly kill huge animals at ethical ranges?
A deer or elk is beyone bow range at 60+ yards because they jump the string and you end up crippling the animal.
Most "real" hunters are not just interested in killing the animal by whatever means possible (ie. rediculous, low percentage shots) that's what poachers are interested in. "Real" hunters are interested in killing an animal w/ a good shot to the vital that is as close to a 'sure thing' as they can get...inside 40 yds and broadside.
When you gut shoot a deer and lose it because of a long shot I hope you change your views. It won't make much of a difference to the deer left crippled in the woods though. :bdid:
Post by: Ray on September 05, 2008, 12:37:31 PM
What you are doing is learning how to tune your body and mind to shoot your bow accurately and instinctively. Then trying to apply that to the "real" environment..
Post by: SCRUBS on September 05, 2008, 01:10:50 PM
Post by: Ray on September 05, 2008, 01:14:36 PM
Post by: dirty.dan4 on September 05, 2008, 01:33:10 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 05, 2008, 01:46:59 PM
I do not disagree that you can hit clay every time at 100 yards. Olympians do it all the time. Do you know how much penetration you will get from your arrow at 100 yards if you miss by 3 inches and strike the shoulder. You would be lying if you said it would break the bone and reach vitals.
I also do not disagree that 30 yards is too far for some. Everyone has limitations but there is a line somewhere. When you cross that line the slightest mistake is magnified greatly.
Shoot 100 yards if you want. I do not care. But you should also have the mentality that when you criple a buck(not if, when), I would expect you will make the ethical choice and notch your tag and hang up the bow till next year.
You also stated that the "the goal of most hunters is to harvest and animal". My goal is to harvest an animal if the right opportunity presents itself. But I will not sacrafice multiple animals and watch them limped off with an arrow in their ass because my goal was to kill. I will eat my tag and I have. I am out there to enjoy what I love doing, the comradary with buddies and family, camping, hiking, scouting. There is alot more than "harvest". I feel that with a goal of harvest only you set yourself up for reckless behavior.
:twocents:
Post by: Broken Arrow on September 05, 2008, 02:49:49 PM
I started the "long shot" thread and in doing so was just curious as to folks thoughs. I actually wanted to hear what other folks thought and the reasons why or why not to take this shot? I think there were many good post and I appreciated folks insight. Some folks felt it was ok...some did not, but most agreed with the fact that you should shoot what your comfortable with. I would hate to have a litmus test in regards to what you can and can not hit at certain ranges. Hunting is an idividual sport, you ned to know your limits, your responsibility to cleanly harvest game as well as the "black eye" it can give the sport when you go outside these limits...I consider that ethical. Off to elk camp , in 10 hours, until the 22nd....hope to shoot a nice bull if the opportunity arises!
Post by: cohoho on September 05, 2008, 03:12:26 PM
Post by: Machias on September 05, 2008, 03:16:33 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on September 05, 2008, 05:07:45 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on September 05, 2008, 05:30:09 PM
This pansy will just keep his mouth shut, this is one of my pet peeves. :stup:
+1
Post by: NoBark on September 05, 2008, 08:14:43 PM
It's your call. Here is the best way I have found to get the point across.
If you shoot an animal at ANY distance, give it a mortal wound and you can't find it, eat the tag and put the bow away till next year.
What we are trying to avoid are guys shooting 3, 4, or even 5 animals until they finally find one. >:(
Post by: Ray on September 05, 2008, 08:33:37 PM
Quote
What we are trying to avoid are guys shooting 3, 4, or even 5 animals until they finally find one.I pretty much agree with that.
Post by: Crunchy on September 05, 2008, 09:10:29 PM
I only archery hunt elk, and the kill zone on an elk, broadside, would be about a 10 inch plate. Now my groups at 50 yards "with broadheads" are about 5-6 inch at worst.
Post by: Machias on September 05, 2008, 10:42:16 PM
Now my groups at 50 yards "with broadheads" are about 5-6 inch at worst.
That's good...on a stationary target, but not a live animal, under field conditions. At 50 to 60 yards, even with today's smokin fast bows, a completely un aware animal, perfectly broadside, takes a single step, just as you put pressure on the trigger. You hit the spot, absolutely perfect, the one you were aiming for, except it is now centered on his stomach. If your hunting paper targets I'd say your effective and ethical hunting range is 50 to 60 yards. If your hunting live animals, under field conditions I'd say a wounded, magnificent animal is in your future nightmares. :twocents:
Post by: PA BEN on September 06, 2008, 08:07:05 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi154.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs276%2FPABEN07%2FPICT0992.jpg&hash=0d5a5b9cef45489c8a52a06743dc4e190ef5f19a)
Post by: crazymofo on September 10, 2008, 10:02:47 AM
''Do you mean "pansy's" like chuck adams and the guys that regularly kill huge animals at ethical ranges?''
Hey now. Lets leave Chuck out of this. ;D We all know he is the man. :bow: I've never met the guy, but i would bet that he has taken more than a few shots at long distance. I would also bet that he also practices what wastickslinger refers to and doesn't bring it to the attention of the general public. Some of you guys have some good points that i haven't thought of. I guess magazines are geared more towards beginners. I guess thats how i know i have moved up a level or two.
PA BEN has it figured out.
Post by: 300rum on September 10, 2008, 10:25:27 AM
The point with Bowhunting is "how close".
It takes a special hunter to get an animal every year with their bow, I tip my hat to you. It doesn't take a special hunter to sling sticks at long ranges during a season where you are more apt to be able to get within 60-100 of good animals.
I could have whacked animals in the 80s to triple digits many times but even if I felt good at that range and practiced it all the time, who cares? I shot a deer one time at 310 yards with a rifle and talk about the least rewarding hunt I ever had......Boy, it takes a special person to get within 310 yards of an animal.
You folks out there who have killed game measured at feet are the ones who can brag. I am proud of you, you have done something that most people will never be able to do. I haven't been able to....yet!
Some of you guys who have whacked an animal at whisper range should start posting your stories, I don't have one, my hats off to you.
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 10, 2008, 10:40:32 AM
It seems that the direction that bowhunting is going is "how far". With all the new technologies and faster bows etc. we have the ability to push our yardages. I don't have a problem with the Tech, just that we are getting away from the point of bowhunting.
The point with Bowhunting is "how close".
It takes a special hunter to get an animal every year with their bow, I tip my hat to you. It doesn't take a special hunter to sling sticks at long ranges during a season where you are more apt to be able to get within 60-100 of good animals.
:yeah: You're exactly right.
Post by: crazymofo on September 10, 2008, 10:55:14 AM
WA coyote hunter - ''Most "real" hunters are not just interested in killing the animal by whatever means possible (ie. rediculous, low percentage shots) that's what poachers are interested in. "Real" hunters are interested in killing an animal w/ a good shot to the vital that is as close to a 'sure thing' as they can get...inside 40 yds and broadside.''
hmmm... Interesting comment. To me that sounds like you are saying anyone who shoots past 40 yards or at animals that are not broadside must be poachers. That is a very bold comment my friend. I imagine that comment would piss off a lot of people. I can think of at least one. I guess all the hunters in all the videos and magazines that successfully take animals with longer shots or quartering shots are poachers then.? Somebody call the warden..!
Just so everyone knows my record. Every animal i've shot at i killed. Every animal i've killed, I've found. Some of you may call that luck. I think its because i use my common sense. I know my bow. I know my skills. I practice, a LOT. I understand animal behavior. I don't rely on the "spray and pray" approach that some people use. I dont take risky shots and have let a lot of animals walk because of these personal standards.
300rum - I agree with your "how close" opinion. That does take a lot of skill. I once stalked to 25 yds of three bedded muley bucks and then got busted mid draw. I missed a chance at the biggest deer of my life (at the time) but that is still one of my earliest and fondest bowhunting memories. But when i had a 5 x6 blacktail standing at 70 yards i didnt hesitate one bit. I shot that buck because i knew my skills and had made that shot a thousand times before. Some think thats unethical, but not me. That was as clean a kill as possible. (not bragging just pushing my point) I disagree with your assumption that it takes little or no skill to shoot at long ranges. It takes takes equal dedication and substantially more practice to be effective at that range.
Post by: Machias on September 10, 2008, 01:47:02 PM
Post by: Ray on September 10, 2008, 01:54:17 PM
Post by: sisu on September 10, 2008, 05:35:00 PM
Post by: archery288 on September 10, 2008, 09:41:32 PM
Well let me start out by saying I am in no way trying to set an example for anyone to copy or that its the right thing to do, and furthermore I am not trying to get on anyone's bad side! As for my shooting routine I stated that I practice out to 130 yards consistantly with both field points and broadheads... I do this to critique my form and to make sure that I am doing everything and I mean everything perfectly each and every shot that is released. This being the case and after that much practice time when you draw on a big buck or bull out in the woods its a piece of cake because you are familiar with your equipment and what it is capable of. If you can consistantly shoot at 130 yards and hit a 12" cicrle I think your doing pretty damn good if I say so myself!
Now on the other hand, I do not recommend in any way shooting at game this far away... A lot can go wrong in the time that the arrow gets there at even 70 or 80 yards. You figure on average at around 80 yards it will take damn near a second for the arrow to get there after loosing energy and speed. Well an animal can jump the string in mere mili-seconds so a full second is a long time for something to go wrong. Now in some of the Eastman's magazines and other publications out there Cameron Hanes states comments just as I have described above on long range shooting, and we talked about this stuff a lot on the caribou hunt and how people are taking to long of shots sometimes... We even talked about it on film as some tech tips for the archer planning on hunting any type of big game east or west. Each of us unknowingly stated that the longer shooting was for practice only and that it made the 40 yard shot a slam dunk in crunch time. Now if you have stuck an animal and need to get another arrow in him thats another story - fling away in my book until it hits the ground! But make the first shot counts and no worries on the rest then.
I know there are guys out there taking some long shots at animals and I wish them the best of luck and I hope they make a clean kill! As for myself, I wont shoot over 50 yards at an animal unless I have stuck it once and need to get another arrow in it. Moral of the story, practice, practice, practice and know your equipment inside and out and be familiar and comfortable with it before that once in a lifetime shot!
Post by: MountainWalk on September 10, 2008, 10:48:33 PM
Just so everyone knows my record. Every animal i've shot at i killed. Every animal i've killed, I've found. Some of you may call that luck.
If you archery hunt for very long, you will lose animal.
Post by: PA BEN on September 11, 2008, 05:42:11 AM
crazymofo, I guess your missing our point. I have absolutely no doubt that you can hit a softball every time you want to out to 100 yards, or 99+% of the time. The problem is no matter how fast a bow your using, it is still wickedly slow compared to a muzzleloader/rifle. And once you release, and your arrow flies, true to it's mark, right exactly where you were aiming, dead on, you have NO control on what the animal does and he doesn't have to do much before you have a wounded animal. And no matter how fast a bow you shoot, at those ranges it takes a while for your arrow to arrive. If you haven't had a wounded animal yet, I'm happy for you, but you can be rest assured if you continue to sling arrows out at those ranges you will in fact wound animals. This isn't about your shooting skills, it's realizing that your hunting with a weapon with limited capabilities and hunting within those limitations. Personally, and I realize this is just me, I will not hunt with someone who takes those ridiculous shots at live animals under field conditions and if I was "King" for a day I'd yank your bowhunting lic on the spot.... :) But I'm not "King" and can only advocate guys and gals give the animals a little more respect and try and close the distance.Thats right, you can't control what the animal does once the arrow is on it's way. Let me tell you, if a buck or a bull of a lift time is in my range I'll try my damnedest to kill him. I've had deer move at 10 yds and gut shoot them, I've had them move at 25 yds and gut shoot them, I find them but this is when you see your shot and you take the necessary time to let the deer die. The ones I've shot at 40 yds and over have stood there and got a clean kill. And as far as gun shooting!!!! I had a broadside shot at a whitetail at 30 yds with a 308, right when I pulled the trigger he turned and I shot him in the butt. GO FIGURE. S#!T Happens. By the way, I started bow hunting 23 years ago with a Bear Kodiak re curve at 50 lbs, went to a 70 lb longbow then went to a compound bow.
Post by: BIGBULLBALLS on September 11, 2008, 07:55:57 AM
Post by: archery288 on September 11, 2008, 07:59:11 AM
Post by: Machias on September 11, 2008, 09:37:11 AM
"Let me tell you, if a buck or a bull of a life time is in my range I'll try my damnedest to kill him."
I'm just the opposite, the bigger the rack the less risk I take. I wounded a monster buck once as a young man, with a .30-.30, he was later scored at 172. I lost lots and lots of sleep over that buck. The bigger the rack the less "risk" I'm now willing to take. It really shouldn't matter though, the size of the buck, all animals from the button buck on up to Muy Grande, deserve a good clean quick kill. I have always shot a compound bow, took my first deer in 1979 with a bow, Bear Polar LTD, 6 wheels and all. :):)
I'll step on out of this discussion, probably should have stayed out of it like I originally said I would. What I can't seem to get through my thick skull is why guys and gals can't say, ok, whatever the reason is I could not quite close the distance today, but there is always tomorrow. Why do you feel the need to launch arrows 3/4 of the way down a football field? Or at animals that are not quite broadside or quartering away, or relaxed....etc...Why is it sooo important for you to fill that tag with an iffy shot situation?
Post by: DWB on September 12, 2008, 04:41:35 PM
dirty.dan -
From my experience, with a compound bow, I found that brand "M" broadheads would shoot to the right and no matter what adjustments I made I could not get the broadheads to shoot the same as my field tips. I switched to G5 Stykers and 90% of my problem was corrected. I corrected the rest by minor adjustments to my rest and now my field tips and broadheads shoot identical. I would suggest to you, before purchasing new broadheads, is to make sure that your broadhead is tuned to your arrow. Meaning, make sure that the three blades on the broadhead (assuming you shoot three bladed) are in line with your fletching. If you shoot carbons, you can use an arrow sanding block to help aline. Once your arrow and broadhead is tuned and if you find that you are still having a problem, adjust your arrow rest, not your sights. Move the arrow rest very slightly (in 1/64" increments) as it does not take much. Move the rest opposite of the direction of the arrow placement in the target (if you are shooting to the right, move the rest to the left). You should see improved arrow placement in the targer- continue to adjust until you are satisfied. Your target tip and broadhead should now shoot the same. I am left handed, shoot a 70# Bowtech Alligence, Trophy Taker drop away rest, Black Gold Flash Point and Easton Axis ST arrows and Scott release. Everything I have told you is assuming that you have your bow tuned correctly to begin with. I hope I have helped and not confused you.
Post by: Opportunist on September 21, 2008, 04:57:28 AM
I guess for me when it comes to the issue of long archery shots my thoughts revolve around penetration. I always setup for killing elk, so for me I shoot cut-on contact heads, carbon arrows and pull enough poundage where I can still shoot good groups, for me that's 70 pounds. I practice at 70 and 80 yards but my max initial shot for elk is 40 yards, I will shoot farther and have on secondary follow up shots. Arrows really start shedding energy out past 50 yards and if by chance the animal jumps the string and contact is made on a moving animal penetration is hugely affected. I remember reading somewhere that when an arrow's forward kinetic energy is changed by sideways energy (hitting a moving animal) it decreases it's kinetic energy by half. So for me it is not just hitting the target, it is hitting a stationary target at 40 yards or less, so if/when the animal jumps the string my arrow is still is carrying enough kinetic energy to deliver full penetration on an elk. My opinion is based on my experience and I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion/ethics nor will I argue about mine.
If this was just a *censored*stirring post then I guess I just wasted my time and got suckered in.
Post by: PA BEN on September 21, 2008, 06:13:21 AM
Post by: dolph46 on September 21, 2008, 08:54:54 AM
Post by: PA BEN on September 21, 2008, 12:23:21 PM
Post by: crazymofo on September 23, 2008, 08:23:53 PM
I agree with a lot of you that an animal might move between the shot and the arrival of the arrow. But with my experiences (so far) the animals have not moved at all. I've seen them jump the string at 50yds. but the animals i've shot didnt even flinch when i hit the trigger. Some were even looking right at me! It's only a theory but i think at 60 and beyond an animal that isn't extremely spooked, isn't too concerned about a gentle "thump" compared to quick movement of the bow and a somewhat louder "thump" at a closer range. Again, maybe i'm just lucky. But i do challenge all of you to start practicing out to at least 60 yds. If you dont want to shoot animals that far then dont try. I really dont care. But i'll bet those of you who do practice the long range shot will quickly realize how close and easy a 30, 40, or 50 yd. shot really is.
I'm glad to hear some of you long range shooters speaking up.
I hate to "stir the pot" even more but it seems to me that we should be teaching new archers how to "know their limits" instead of passing judgement on others and telling them that what they are doing is unethical. Maybe use a set of standards and strongly suggest that if an archer cant hit a pie plate at 50 yards on 80% of his shots that he shouldn't shoot past 50 yds. It's like telling lance armstrong that it unethical to ride his bike that far because most of us (including me) cant or wont do it. Or like telling Chuck that its unethical to shoot so many big critters because we cant afford it. I just dont agree with the whole "unethical" statement.
All in all i may be branded as a " *censored*stirring troll" ( thanks opportunist) :) But i'm glad i did because i think all the comments posted by all of you will probably teach new archers more about this subject than they would learn by saying it's unethical and then dropping the subject.
Keep posting! Its just getting interesting.
Post by: Machias on September 23, 2008, 08:56:42 PM
That sounds like a good standard, as long as 50% of the time you shoot at the pie plate someone holding a string can move it, then if you still hit it more then 80%, I say go for it. :):) I think that is what is lost on the long range crowd, we're not doubting your shooting abilities, not one bit. It's that once you release that arrow you have no control. When you shorten the distance you shorten the time things can happen from release to impact. Can they happen at shorter distances, sure can, they seem to happen less and less as you close the distance. I never thought of you as stirring the pot. I t hink with new archers we should encourage them to start out at lower ranges. Let them get some years under their belt and some clean one shot kills and then they will be smart enough to figure out what their consistent lethal range is. But take a new guy and by the end of the summer he can probably wear the ten ring out even out to 75 or 80 yards, doesn't mean he has any busniess shooting at live game under field conditions at those or even half those ranges.
Post by: demontang on September 23, 2008, 10:13:57 PM
I think it all comes down to what everyone fells comfortable with and what they shoot, I didn't think that my bow would have the energy to pass though an elk at 60yd tell I started to shot my block at that distances and the penetration was a lot more the I would have every thought. The groups I can shot at 60yd which have been around 5"-8" groups, have shown me that with a good comfortable shot it would be doable on an elk. :twocents:
Post by: PA BEN on September 24, 2008, 06:02:58 AM
Post by: demontang on September 24, 2008, 07:57:06 AM
Post by: Bscman on September 24, 2008, 03:15:56 PM
I think I'd like to chime in...again!!!
I don't want to step on anyone's toes...just voice my thoughts. Take 'em or leave 'em.
Like I said on page 1, I have no problem with people taking shots past 50yds. The problem is that most of the people that take shots like this are just flinging arrows--they don't have the skill, practice, or accuracy for such shots. They're leaving a lot up to chance, just so they don't have to come back again tomorrow (lazy, unrealistic).
If you can practice at 50+yds and shoot well, all the better to you.
I can shoot 4.0" groups consistently at 50yds, but that is as far as my range goes. I still choose to limite my shots to 40yds because I know I can drill a target the size of a heart 99% of the time. I don't take reckless shots.
How many of you practice when it's a little windy?
How many of you do 100yd wind-sprints then try to shoot for groups?
How many of you practice holding back for 2-3 minutes before loosing?
How many of you practice shooting with one foot on a stump, or on steep hills in loose terrain?
Most importantly...
How many of you practice with your hunting gear on (thick coat, multiple laters, gloves, mask, hat, calls/camera around your neck, backpack/fanny pack, etc)
All these things affect groups and consistency.
If you don't pratice shots with gear on, on uneven terrain, and while you're out of breath (simulate a quick stalk or adrenaline rush) at 50+ yds then how the heck do you know you can connect 100% of the time when the "opportunity" presents itself?
BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF!
Here's a chart I *borrowed* from Huntersfriend showing arrow flight times:
| Distance---> 10 Yards 20 Yards 30 Yards 40 Yards 50 yards 150 fps 0.203 0.412 0.628 0.849 1.078 175 fps 0.174 0.353 0.538 0.728 0.924 200 fps 0.152 0.309 0.471 0.637 0.808 225 fps 0.135 0.275 0.418 0.566 0.718 250 fps 0.122 0.247 0.377 0.510 0.647 275 fps 0.111 0.225 0.342 0.463 0.588 300 fps 0.102 0.206 0.314 0.425 0.539 325 fps 0.094 0.190 0.290 0.392 0.497 |
How many of you long distance shooters have chrono'd your bow?
Most modern hunting rigs are shooting a "typical" hunting arrow between 240-250fps.
If your bow is rated at 320fps, that was done at 70lb/30" draw with a 350gr arrow.
The typical carbon hunting arrow with a 100gr broadhead is going to run ~400grs...so knock off some speed.
Don't draw 30"? Knock of ~12fps for every inch less.
Not drawing 70lbs? Knock 1.5-2fps off per lb lighter.
Got a string loop, nock, or silencers on? Knock a few more fps for each.
Got helical fletching...or ANY fletching at all? (most IBO tests are bare shaft)
Get the point?
The average hunting arrow is going to take just under 1 second to reach 60yds...but the sound and movement reached the animal INSTANTLY. That's a lot of time for a step, flinch, duck, jump, etc. Not to mention all the limbs that appear from no-where, and the gust of wind that just picked up.
Someone said they can keep their groups on a pie plate 80% of the time at 50yds.
That is most definitely NOT accurate enough to be shooting an animal at 50yds, or likely even 40yds.
Some consider the "kill zone" on a deer to be about 6" in diameter...I believe it's closer to 4." Sure, you can kill a deer outside that zone...but it'll take longer and is much less ideal. A heart shot drops a deer in 20yds, a lung shot takes LONGER!
The average pie pan is just under 10" in diameter. If you can do that 80% of the time, that means your average group is likely closer to 11-12". That means if you aim for the heart, your average arrow is going to hit 4-6" in any direction from where you're aiming...which means you'll miss that heart and likely hit somewhere outside that 4" prime kill zone. Maybe a miss, maybe a lung, maybe your arrow hit a shoulder blade and stop.
...and I bet you aren't using any of the practice techniques I mentioned above, so that's 10" groups 80% of the time in PERFECT conditions....and still not taking into account a moving target.
IMHO, that hardly meets qualifications for a "long distance" shot on an animal.
On the other hand, I know there are members on this forum that can shoot sub 10" groups at 80yds consistently. Those guys are the ones that should be taking the 50 and 60yds shots (if anyone should be at all).
Ethical? I'll leave that word out of the mix...
But I would like to throw in the word "RECKLESS."
If you can't consciously evaluate your limits, and intelligently evaluate all the variables, you are being reckless.
JMHO.
Post by: Machias on September 24, 2008, 03:39:05 PM
:yeah:
Post by: 300rum on September 24, 2008, 03:45:28 PM
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on September 24, 2008, 04:11:04 PM
Post by: bucklucky on September 24, 2008, 04:11:49 PM
Post by: Bscman on September 24, 2008, 09:07:24 PM
Had some spare time on my hands to get it all out...that's all.
(Just don't tell the boss-man)
Thanks... :)
Post by: Slow-1 on October 02, 2008, 08:33:11 AM
Post by: spin05 on October 02, 2008, 02:27:04 PM
Post by: demontang on October 02, 2008, 03:40:26 PM
I still wouldn't take a shot at something if I was not sure of the shot and I wouldn't shoot at a deer at 60yd's. :twocents:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on October 02, 2008, 03:42:30 PM
Post by: beav1980 on October 07, 2008, 06:02:28 PM
Post by: Bscman on October 07, 2008, 09:41:15 PM
If I have a broad side shot @ 20 yds and I hit it in the guts I guess that is ok but if I do the same shot at 60yds then it becomes un-ehtical??
We owe it to the animals we pursue to take them as humanely as possible. A gut shot is hardly ethical, at any range!
At 20yds you have little excuse--you were unethical because you were ill-prepared or simply took a poor shot.
At 60yds a whole lot more comes in to play. Wind drift at 60yds is MUCH more drastic than at 20yds. Flight time is MUCH longer at 60yds, so the animal has more time to move. Erratic arrow flight, mis-judgind distance, and so many other things all come into play much more so than at 20yds.
A gut shot at 60yds is RECKLESS because there were so many things counting against you...
It's kinda like drunk driving when you're on the edge of the legal limit.
You're still affected by the booze, but as long as you get home safely...no harm was done......but you have ZERO excuse if you cause an accident or run off the road. You should've known better.
Reckless.
Post by: beav1980 on October 08, 2008, 05:16:27 PM
Post by: Blacktail killer on October 13, 2008, 06:09:50 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 05:10:29 PM
Post by: Ray on October 17, 2008, 05:14:43 PM
Post by: demontang on October 17, 2008, 05:22:51 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 05:29:40 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 17, 2008, 05:35:27 PM
Post by: NoBark on October 17, 2008, 05:45:16 PM
we as a society formulate some of our ethical decission making capabilities. Peer pressure if you will, keeps us from doing things we probably shouldn't.
Happens in all of life, not just hunting.
Here's where the real jist lays, those who are new to the sport need to know what the rest of us expect of them. They represent me and I represnt them to those outside of the hunting community. I want them to know that.
In this discussion, I want them to be sure they make a quick, clean kill on the animal and not try some hail-mary "maybe if I can stick it I can get a second arrow into it"
shot. :bdid:
Post by: Ray on October 17, 2008, 06:00:06 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 06:00:37 PM
Post by: Ray on October 17, 2008, 06:04:39 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 17, 2008, 06:13:59 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 06:19:55 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 17, 2008, 06:26:12 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 06:34:32 PM
Post by: Ray on October 17, 2008, 06:36:51 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 06:44:28 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 17, 2008, 06:47:05 PM
Post by: Ray on October 17, 2008, 06:48:28 PM
Post by: sisu on October 17, 2008, 07:02:34 PM
Post by: rougheye on October 17, 2008, 07:03:42 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 07:13:37 PM
Post by: Hoytstaffshooter83 on October 17, 2008, 07:21:19 PM
Post by: NoBark on October 17, 2008, 08:30:43 PM
Learn from your misses (over confidence maybe? trying to prove something to someone?)
Hunt as if you only have ONE arrow.....use it wisely :twocents: