Post by: elksnout on December 01, 2012, 02:19:22 PM
Post by: wraithen on December 01, 2012, 02:27:37 PM
All that being said, lead bullets in game sized rounds are probably more likely to end up buried in the earth for a decade or two than something deciding to eat it. Eating metal isn't something most animals would do on purpose, otherwise all the beer cans would disappear. As far as it being an issue just being in the ground, I find that pretty hard to believe. All in all, shoot what you want, just don't eat the bullets.
Post by: Bob33 on December 01, 2012, 02:31:15 PM
Google "lead in game meat" and read up to your heart's desire. Here's just one of thousands:
http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=311:lead-recommedations&catid=34:ONB%20Articles&Itemid=54 (http://www.wildlifemanagementinstitute.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=311:lead-recommedations&catid=34:ONB%20Articles&Itemid=54)
Post by: coachcw on December 01, 2012, 04:26:49 PM
Post by: Curly on December 01, 2012, 04:39:04 PM
Post by: elksnout on December 01, 2012, 06:47:18 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 01, 2012, 06:49:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on December 01, 2012, 06:56:22 PM
Quote
I guess my question really should have been are copper bullets accurate and strong enough to use on big game?
Copper bullets are what are used when you really need or want a bullet that will stay together. The Barnes bullets I have recovered from game have always retained 90% of their weight.
Post by: Bob33 on December 01, 2012, 07:01:44 PM
I guess my question really should have been are copper bullets accurate and strong enough to use on big game?I use Barnes solid copper bullets almost exclusively because of their performance and accuracy in my rifles. I don't like lead schrapnel pieces in my meat but would not consider it a significant health risk to eat game killed with lead bullets.
Post by: elksnout on December 01, 2012, 07:04:28 PM
Post by: Bofire on December 01, 2012, 07:04:40 PM
geeeez people, did God give you a brain? Stop trusting "studies".
Carl
Post by: Ice Cap on December 01, 2012, 07:07:04 PM
I recovered the slug just under the hide on the opposite side.
It mushroomed perfectly and when put on my powder scale the mushroomed bullet still weighed 180 grains!
Post by: elksnout on December 01, 2012, 09:19:27 PM
some tiny amount of the deer comes in contact with the bullet, and a tiny amount of the copper comes "off" on that tiny amount of meat, that, if it is a heart/lung shot, Or most Kill shots, is not meat you will eat anyway. This is a total load of BULL CRAP,
geeeez people, did God give you a brain? Stop trusting "studies".
Carl
Nice slam Carl. Yes I have a brain and used it today to ask questions about a subject I knew little about. Thanks to others on this forum I was better educated on said subject and can now make my own decision on which bullets to use should I choose to change. Not a big deal. Not intended to be a big deal. It's nice to know that you are such an expert and have little tolerance for the opinions of others. I guess my take away today should also include to not ask for advise on this site anymore. Thank you for that.
Elksnout
Post by: ohopluke on December 02, 2012, 08:54:29 PM
Post by: jess on December 02, 2012, 10:29:43 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on December 02, 2012, 10:37:02 PM
a catalytic converter is an added expense to owning an automobile. However, I don't mind laws requiring one as there is an identified environmental benefit to using one. Don't see that with copper vs lead rounds. If you like copper, more power to ya.
Post by: KFhunter on December 02, 2012, 10:39:09 PM
that's about it.
Post by: sirmissalot on December 02, 2012, 10:57:02 PM
Yes, copper is more than strong enough to do the job. The Barnes line does a great job on critters....just wish they were cannelured.
Not sure what you mean, the triple shock line of Barnes are cannelured. At least for me the grooves line up to be able to use it as a cannelure... Guess I don't know if you can really call it that though. But they are grooved!
Post by: csaaphill on December 03, 2012, 12:05:24 AM
yuck don't give the EPA more ammo.
That's why I hope the hunting bill passes so we don't have to listen to peoples crap.
Post by: thinkingman on December 03, 2012, 09:14:58 AM
leads been used for how long ? kinda weird how new studies come out that support the sale of "new" products...These 'studies' are nothing new.
:twocents:
Quote
some tiny amount of the deer comes in contact with the bullet, and a tiny amount of the copper comes "off" on that tiny amount of meat, that, if it is a heart/lung shot, Or most Kill shots, is not meat you will eat anyway. This is a total load of BULL CRAP,
geeeez people, did God give you a brain? Stop trusting "studies".
Carl
Carl! No desert until you finish your lead chips!
And don't forget to lick your fingers after reloading a couple hundred rounds!
In re cost, I can sight in and fill my tags for the cost of a couple of gallons of fuel.
Or a pack of cigarettes, if I smoked.
Barnes TSX are match-grade hunting bullets.
Much more concentric and reliable than cup and core.
No reason not to use them unless you are varmint shooting in volume.
And, yes, lead does kill and disable wildlife.
Same reason poisoning vermine and highly-toxic farming chemicals are banned.
We all live downstream.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 03, 2012, 09:54:57 AM
as for Barnes bullets being match grade... I beg to differ and will stick with my lead core bullets for now. I have tried Barnes in numerous rifles and have not been real impressed personally. They do work tho.
Post by: copasj on December 03, 2012, 10:52:03 AM
Here is my opinion on the matter. People were hunting with lead slugs for centuries, but lead poisoning deaths dropped off once we stopped using lead based cups etc. Not to mention casting bullets is going to expose you to far more ingested lead than what you would get from eating game meat.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 03, 2012, 11:18:59 AM
There are studies that show lead bullets are harmful and others that show it is harmless. One or the other is lying and no real way for a layman to tell which.not to mention eating fish or shellfish.
Here is my opinion on the matter. People were hunting with lead slugs for centuries, but lead poisoning deaths dropped off once we stopped using lead based cups etc. Not to mention casting bullets is going to expose you to far more ingested lead than what you would get from eating game meat.
Sent from my DROID3 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: Bofire on December 03, 2012, 05:57:04 PM
Carl
Post by: Wacenturion on December 04, 2012, 08:30:20 AM
1. You can use a lighter bullet with less recoil ending up with little loss in grain weight upon entering the animal, therefore equaling a heavier lead bullet that is slower and loses grains from splintering upon entering said animal as far as final grain weight.
2. Because the bullet is lighter you have more velocity and less drop at similar distances than a heavier lead bullet. Therefore perhaps more accurate?
3. Speeds kills vs. heavier kills.
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2012, 09:09:52 AM
Is it right to assume with say Barnes TSX or TTSX that the following are pluses.....My opinions:
1. You can use a lighter bullet with less recoil ending up with little loss in grain weight upon entering the animal, therefore equaling a heavier lead bullet that is slower and loses grains from splintering upon entering said animal as far as final grain weight.
2. Because the bullet is lighter you have more velocity and less drop at similar distances than a heavier lead bullet. Therefore perhaps more accurate?
3. Speeds kills vs. heavier kills.
1. Yes. A 150 grain bullet that retains 100% of its weight exits an animal weighing 150 grains. A 180 grain bullet that loses 35% to 40% of its weight (like a Nosler Partition) weighs 110 grains when exiting. The rest is inside the animal.
2. Up to a certain distance, yes. Everything else being equal a lighter bullet has a lower BC and loses velocity faster than a more aerodynamic, heavier bullet. At very long distances (over 500 yards, for sake of discussion) a heavier bullet will catch up and surpass a lighter bullet.
3. That's a topic of endless debate. If speed alone kills we'd all shoot elephants with .22 caliber bullets going 4500 feet per second.
Post by: bobcat on December 04, 2012, 09:23:31 AM
Having an exit hole usually means a much better blood trail.
That's the main reason I like Barnes bullets. I do want to try the new Nosler e-tip. I like supporting Nosler since they are made right next door in Oregon.
Post by: Wacenturion on December 04, 2012, 09:28:00 AM
Post by: h20hunter on December 04, 2012, 09:57:02 AM
Post by: kentrek on December 04, 2012, 10:04:19 AM
The reason I asked is because I'm getting set up to reload. Have reloaded shotshells for years, but new to rifle and pistol. Have a Hornady L&L progessive press and a Hornady single stage. Been doing a lot of research and planning on going exclusively with Barnes TTSX or TSX.
one draw back i hear from guys is that these bullets poke holes, letting game run further,but it gives ya two holes so at least you can follow them,unless it rains or snows.. ..the lead bullets poke A hole an then blow up which in my opinion results in way more damage and shorter tracking jobs
what would you rather be shot by ??.. hypothetically speaking of coarse, id rather not have a grenade go off inside me
but this is a Chevy vs ford argument,they all get ya down the road :tup:
Post by: Curly on December 04, 2012, 10:11:29 AM
Post by: Bob33 on December 04, 2012, 10:11:33 AM
There are man years of wasted life energy spent on debating Barnes vs. conventional bullets. Don't go down that rabbit hole. See for yourself. :tup:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on December 04, 2012, 11:07:57 AM
Post by: Curly on December 04, 2012, 11:15:21 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on December 04, 2012, 02:09:55 PM
.243 Winchester
.257 Roberts
.270 (potentially....looking at one)
.308 Winchester
30-30 Winchester
.300 Win. Mag
.270 WSM
.325 WSM
Looks like the TSX offers a somewhat lager selection of heavier weight bullets over the TTSX in the same caliber. As an example....8mm (.325 WSM)...TTSX 160 grain....TSX 180 and 200 grain. Similar in other calibers.
Bob...as you said...
"My advice: try loading some Barnes. Start with a bullet that's 10% to 20% lighter than you would normally use with a conventional jacketed bullet. See how they shoot in your rifle. If they shoot well, give them a try on game.'
That's exactly what I was planning on doing. Also plan on using Hodgdon Varget powder.....any thoughts? Seem to be some good loads on most of the calibers above using it, as well as people generally liking that particular powder.