Post by: bigbullshedhunter on December 06, 2012, 07:44:17 PM
Post by: HornHoarder on December 06, 2012, 07:50:40 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 06, 2012, 07:52:05 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on December 06, 2012, 07:54:02 PM
Just remove the word Antler form the drawing.
Post by: Bonedar208 on December 07, 2012, 04:06:41 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 04:08:41 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 07, 2012, 04:13:12 PM
Post by: huntnphool on December 07, 2012, 04:21:55 PM
OMG .. Now this will be illegal next year :dunno: :chuckle:Illegal or not it will still be a bad idea next year as well. :twocents:
Post by: Holg3107 on December 07, 2012, 04:22:03 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1115.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk558%2Fholg3107%2FRoundCowFeeder1.gif&hash=68aa57dc42f70fb9a5c5284ed6397f0720125a3b)
Post by: Bigtine96 on December 07, 2012, 04:26:43 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 07, 2012, 05:06:02 PM
Post by: Maverick on December 07, 2012, 09:19:10 PM
Post by: RifleRidge on December 07, 2012, 09:26:42 PM
I'd rather just watch them an hike.
really?
Post by: ghosthunter on December 07, 2012, 09:33:17 PM
It would be animal harassment and illegal, I'm quite sure. :bdid:
:yeah:
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 07, 2012, 09:38:16 PM
Post by: Devinshoe on December 07, 2012, 09:39:28 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 07, 2012, 09:50:36 PM
He should put his name, address, phone number and mothers maiden name on it too so nobody tries to steal it.
Post by: norsepeak on December 07, 2012, 10:14:26 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 07, 2012, 10:18:35 PM
Post by: Maverick on December 08, 2012, 07:05:34 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 08, 2012, 08:41:21 AM
Dont put your ideas on here. just do it.. the internet police with will tell you no! Because they are all jealous!
He posted a topic asking if we thought it was legal, and we're giving our opinions. That makes us the internet police? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Jealousy doesn't figure in. I can find plenty of sheds without risking harm to the critters.
Post by: huntnphool on December 08, 2012, 10:03:33 AM
:yeah:Dont put your ideas on here. just do it.. the internet police with will tell you no! Because they are all jealous!
He posted a topic asking if we thought it was legal, and we're giving our opinions. That makes us the internet police? :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: Jealousy doesn't figure in. I can find plenty of sheds without risking harm to the critters.
Post by: adamR on December 08, 2012, 10:04:51 AM
Is it really worth risking the life of a deer that is already having a tough winter so you can get more sheds the "easy" way?
If you are going to feed them anyways find a brushy area and put the feed at the bottom of the brush. When the deer go into the thick brush it may knock the antlers off. It's safe, there is actually some sport and challenge to it, and you are still feeding the deer.
Part of the joy of sheds is actually being out and finding them. If you don't want to do that but still want sheds go to an antique store and buy them, it would probably be cheaper than buying feed all winter.
I'm not bashing you for thinking of this plan because I actually thought about it last year and really started thinking about the harm v.s. the reward and it was not worth it. So I fed deer all winter and just went out every day and looked for sheds.
Post by: grundy53 on December 08, 2012, 10:39:39 AM
it's not illegal....:yeah:
Is it really worth risking the life of a deer that is already having a tough winter so you can get more sheds the "easy" way?
If you are going to feed them anyways find a brushy area and put the feed at the bottom of the brush. When the deer go into the thick brush it may knock the antlers off. It's safe, there is actually some sport and challenge to it, and you are still feeding the deer.
Part of the joy of sheds is actually being out and finding them. If you don't want to do that but still want sheds go to an antique store and buy them, it would probably be cheaper than buying feed all winter.
I'm not bashing you for thinking of this plan because I actually thought about it last year and really started thinking about the harm v.s. the reward and it was not worth it. So I fed deer all winter and just went out every day and looked for sheds.
Post by: ICEMAN on December 08, 2012, 05:19:26 PM
Post by: Bonedar208 on December 08, 2012, 05:28:14 PM
I'd rather just watch them an hike.
really?
....Obviously you are not following...
Post by: Outdoor Guardian on December 20, 2012, 01:48:48 PM
Just wanna get some thoughts on the idea of it. Ain't nothin out there big enough to trap elk antlers. Jst deer
It's not legal, but it is sure creative. So here is your crosswalk. Under RCW 77.08.010(65) the department defines what it means “to hunt”.......: "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
WAC 232-12-287 states that you can’t possess wildlife found dead and antlers possessed must be naturally shed. RCW 77.15.410(a) and (b) speaks to illegal hunting in regards to time, manner and area/closed season. Bottom line, this type of device at a minimum would be considered harassment ultimately end up in illegal take/possession. For instance, what would happen if a bull that was not ready to shed was entrapped in this device overnight when the trap was not attended. The animal could become critically exhausted and expire. The person setting the trap could be cited for illegally hunting of big game based on the statute definitions. OG
WAC 232-12-287 Possession of dead wildlife. (1) Except as authorized by permit of the director or by subsection (2) of this section, it is unlawful to possess wildlife found dead. This rule does not prohibit the possession of naturally shed antlers of deer, elk, or moose.
(2) An individual may remove and dispose of wildlife found dead on his or her property or an adjoining public roadway. Before removing the wildlife, the individual shall, by telephone, notify the department or the Washington state patrol communications office, and shall provide his or her name, address, telephone number, and the description and location of the wildlife. The individual may remove the wildlife for disposal only, and may not retain the wildlife for personal use or consumption. Other laws and rules may apply to the disposal, including rules of the department of health (WAC 246-203-120). Wildlife removed under this section remain the property of the state.
[Statutory Authority: RCW 77.12.047. 03-16-087 (Order 03-175), § 232-12-287, filed 8/5/03, effective 9/5/03. Statutory Authority: RCW 77.12.040. 95-10-026, § 232-12-287, filed 4/26/95, effective 5/27/95; 81-12-029 (Order 165), § 232-12-287, filed 6/1/81. Formerly WAC 232-12-180.]
RCW 77.08.010
Definitions.
The definitions in this section apply throughout this title or rules adopted under this title unless the context clearly requires otherwise.
(65) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
RCW 77.15.410
Unlawful hunting of big game -- Penalty.
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful hunting of big game in the second degree if the person:
(a) Hunts for, takes, or possesses big game and the person does not have and possess all licenses, tags, or permits required under this title; or
(b) Violates any department rule regarding seasons, bag or possession limits, closed areas including game reserves, closed times, or any other rule governing the hunting, taking, or possession of big game.
(2) A person is guilty of unlawful hunting of big game in the first degree if the person commits the act described in subsection (1) of this section and:
(a) The person hunts for, takes, or possesses three or more big game animals within the same course of events; or
(b) The act occurs within five years of the date of a prior conviction under this title involving unlawful hunting, killing, possessing, or taking big game.
(3)(a) Unlawful hunting of big game in the second degree is a gross misdemeanor. Upon conviction of an offense involving killing or possession of big game taken during a closed season, closed area, without the proper license, tag, or permit using an unlawful method, or in excess of the bag or possession limit, the department shall revoke all of the person's hunting licenses and tags and order a suspension of the person's hunting privileges for two years.
(b) Unlawful hunting of big game in the first degree is a class C felony. Upon conviction, the department shall revoke all of the person's hunting licenses or tags and order the person's hunting privileges suspended for ten years.
(4) For the purposes of this section, "same course of events" means within one twenty-four hour period, or a pattern of conduct composed of a series of acts that are unlawful under subsection (1) of this section, over a period of time evidencing a continuity of purpose.
[
Post by: adamR on December 20, 2012, 02:07:25 PM
It's not legal, but it is sure creative. So here is your crosswalk. Under RCW 77.08.010(65) the department defines what it means “to hunt”.......: "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
WAC 232-12-287 states that you can’t possess wildlife found dead and antlers possessed must be naturally shed. RCW 77.15.410(a) and (b) speaks to illegal hunting in regards to time, manner and area/closed season. Bottom line, this type of device at a minimum would be considered harassment ultimately end up in illegal take/possession. For instance, what would happen if a bull that was not ready to shed was entrapped in this device overnight when the trap was not attended. The animal could become critically exhausted and expire. The person setting the trap could be cited for illegally hunting of big game based on the statute definitions. OG[
I disagree with you that this is illegal, I see your point and yes if an animal died or was injured then it is a whole different story but to say it's illegal right off the bat seems like a reach to me after what I read. (I still disagree with getting sheds this way, I just don't see how it's illegal with actually hurting the animal)
Post by: h20hunter on December 20, 2012, 02:09:56 PM
Post by: adamR on December 20, 2012, 02:50:14 PM
Post by: h20hunter on December 20, 2012, 02:52:45 PM
Post by: jackmaster on December 20, 2012, 03:04:24 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 20, 2012, 03:05:05 PM
you make a valid point h20hunter but by that logic if a deer's antler gets caught in my fence and I pick up that shed does that mean I'm harassing wildlife? Technically it wasn't natural and my property caused it. I understand what Outdoor Guardian was getting at I just feel like that is an interpretation of the law and not a set in stone answer.
Since outdoor guardian is LE for the DFW, I would probably take him at his word on this one. Thanks OG for weighing in. We appreciate the LE perspective on this.
Post by: bigtex on December 20, 2012, 03:31:11 PM
you make a valid point h20hunter but by that logic if a deer's antler gets caught in my fence and I pick up that shed does that mean I'm harassing wildlife? Technically it wasn't natural and my property caused it. I understand what Outdoor Guardian was getting at I just feel like that is an interpretation of the law and not a set in stone answer.
Since outdoor guardian is LE for the DFW, I would probably take him at his word on this one. Thanks OG for weighing in. We appreciate the LE perspective on this.
:yeah:
I think what people need to understand is that laws (especially fish and wildlife laws) are different from state to state. I know there are some commercially sold devices which have feed in the center and the deer/elk places their head in the device and the rubber (i believe it is rubber) tubing "catches" the antler and in a way removes the antler from the animal. So I assume in some states it is legal. And while these devices aren't explicitly illegal under state law, the end result is. In order to posess antlers they must have been shed naturally, and creating/placing a device to cause the removal of the antler would not follow that law.
Post by: h2ofowlr on December 20, 2012, 03:47:02 PM
Post by: jackmaster on December 20, 2012, 03:51:38 PM
bigtex or outdoor guardian, you guy prbably didnt see my question, ididnt put it in a very good spot, but since this is a legality type thread can i ask you guys this, If BAITING WAS LEGAL AGAIN, would it be legal to make a handmade spear and spear a black bear, a spear that has to be thrown by hand, i ask because maybe we could get baiting back and this would also make the greenies happy because they would see it as a chance for a hunter to get picked off, thank youyou make a valid point h20hunter but by that logic if a deer's antler gets caught in my fence and I pick up that shed does that mean I'm harassing wildlife? Technically it wasn't natural and my property caused it. I understand what Outdoor Guardian was getting at I just feel like that is an interpretation of the law and not a set in stone answer.
Since outdoor guardian is LE for the DFW, I would probably take him at his word on this one. Thanks OG for weighing in. We appreciate the LE perspective on this.
:yeah:
I think what people need to understand is that laws (especially fish and wildlife laws) are different from state to state. I know there are some commercially sold devices which have feed in the center and the deer/elk places their head in the device and the rubber (i believe it is rubber) tubing "catches" the antler and in a way removes the antler from the animal. So I assume in some states it is legal. And while these devices aren't explicitly illegal under state law, the end result is. In order to posess antlers they must have been shed naturally, and creating/placing a device to cause the removal of the antler would not follow that law.
Post by: bigtex on December 20, 2012, 04:03:46 PM
if it WAS legal to bait bears, would it be legal to use a hand made spear that you throw to dispatch said bear? i only ask because maybe we could get baiting back if the only legal hunting method would be hand crafted spears, this way the green peacers would be happy with the fact that maybe some hunters would get themselves killed :chuckle:, it would be an awesome challenge as well.
No because it wouldn't be a legal hunting method (modern rifle, archery, crossbow, etc). Several years ago someone in Pierce County was busted for spearing a bear. In order for it to be legal the commission would need to legalize the method.
Post by: ellensburgpo on December 20, 2012, 04:19:12 PM
Post by: Old Man Yager on January 03, 2013, 08:12:07 PM
Post by: Maverick on January 03, 2013, 09:31:08 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but have you heard of hiking around and finding a shed? If I saw an antler trap, I think I would wreck it. To each his own, I guess.
Would you wreck someones trail cam while you were at it?
Post by: buglebuster on January 03, 2013, 09:44:00 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 04, 2013, 06:02:56 AM
Don't take this the wrong way, but have you heard of hiking around and finding a shed? If I saw an antler trap, I think I would wreck it. To each his own, I guess.
Would you wreck someones trail cam while you were at it?
Trail cams are legal for use in WA. There's no viable comparison here.
Post by: Maverick on January 04, 2013, 11:09:18 AM
Don't take this the wrong way, but have you heard of hiking around and finding a shed? If I saw an antler trap, I think I would wreck it. To each his own, I guess.
Would you wreck someones trail cam while you were at it?
Trail cams are legal for use in WA. There's no viable comparison here.
Yes there is. Not all shed traps harrass deer. As long as they dont injure the animal and the horns are falling off naturally while at the feed then its nothing more than a feeder.
So everyone I guess if you do build a shed trap just call it a feeder on here for now on. That way no one gets upset that someone else is trying to save a mile on his boots.
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 04, 2013, 11:19:07 AM
Don't take this the wrong way, but have you heard of hiking around and finding a shed? If I saw an antler trap, I think I would wreck it. To each his own, I guess.
Would you wreck someones trail cam while you were at it?
Trail cams are legal for use in WA. There's no viable comparison here.
Yes there is. Not all shed traps harrass deer. As long as they dont injure the animal and the horns are falling off naturally while at the feed then its nothing more than a feeder.
So everyone I guess if you do build a shed trap just call it a feeder on here for now on. That way no one gets upset that someone else is trying to save a mile on his boots.
Again, no, there's no viable comparison. Whether they hurt deer or not, if it's an antler trap, it's illegal in this state - the law is quite clear as stated above. Justify it anyway you want to, but it's still illegal.
There's a huge difference between becoming upset, as you put it, and informing your hunting friends about the hazards of breaking a law. You now know it's illegal Maverick because you've been informed by your hunting buddies here (and the law) that it is. Our job as a fellow hunters is done. If you still set out an antler trap and get caught, it's your butt in the trap. Why you're unable to put that mile on your boots to go out and look for antlers the "old fashioned way" is anyone's guess, but best of luck to you in your antler pursuits. :tup:
Post by: Maverick on January 04, 2013, 11:35:34 AM
Post by: h20hunter on January 04, 2013, 11:45:35 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on January 04, 2013, 12:10:41 PM
So then anytime anyone has out any kind of feeder it an antler trap? If i go put out a bag of corn and then cover it with hay so the deer have to dig down to the corn with their horns than that's an antler trap? There are plenty of ways someone could build an antler trap without it hurting the animal in anyway. Basically youre attracting the deer to an area and as they come back often and their horn gets ready you hope it falls off where you want or close. Nothing is making that horn fall. Granted there are some traps that could be dangerous to an animal and shouldn't be used. But that doesn't make them all illegal. Horns fall when they want to fall. No one is making them. No different then when a buck rubs a tree to knock a horn off or jump a fence.
So done with this. Like I said, good luck - happy hunting.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 04, 2013, 12:11:49 PM
Don't take this the wrong way, but have you heard of hiking around and finding a shed? If I saw an antler trap, I think I would wreck it. To each his own, I guess.
Would you wreck someones trail cam while you were at it?
Trail cams are legal for use in WA. There's no viable comparison here.
Sorry but a LE isn't the end all be all on what's legal or illegal (though I am sure OG has a much better grasp of it than most of us and I am certainly glad he posted here). That being said.. I think it's fairly clear that as the law is currently written antler traps (or whatever one wishes to call them) in and of themselves are not illegal. I do believe the blueprints laid out by the OP would be illegal because it is fairly obvious that an animal could become ensnared (that wouldn't be the case with all designs).
Post by: Maverick on January 04, 2013, 02:11:19 PM
So then anytime anyone has out any kind of feeder it an antler trap? If i go put out a bag of corn and then cover it with hay so the deer have to dig down to the corn with their horns than that's an antler trap? There are plenty of ways someone could build an antler trap without it hurting the animal in anyway. Basically youre attracting the deer to an area and as they come back often and their horn gets ready you hope it falls off where you want or close. Nothing is making that horn fall. Granted there are some traps that could be dangerous to an animal and shouldn't be used. But that doesn't make them all illegal. Horns fall when they want to fall. No one is making them. No different then when a buck rubs a tree to knock a horn off or jump a fence.
So done with this. Like I said, good luck - happy hunting.
Just when it was getting good :chuckle:
Post by: Devinshoe on January 04, 2013, 09:45:42 PM