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Title: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 09, 2012, 08:07:33 PM
Me and addicted2hunting walked pretty far in behind a closed gate today looking for deer. One one of the roads we stumbled upon this:

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi630.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu22%2F206turboballs%2F5E565F63-D097-45B3-AFDF-D0A52F52C4B2-574-00000060F84C5D19.jpg&hash=94d195f100fa862750e51db421893753480469b0)

At first I thought it may have been a bear but when we looked closer at it, the claw marks were deep and made with surgical precision, like razor blades had been drug down the tree trunk. On the opposite side of the tree there were claw marks where I'm thinking the animal used one claw to hold on while it ravaged the tree with the other. I'm thinking it was a cougar. What do you guys say?
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 09, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
I'm thinking it wasn't a bear because there were fresh shavings all over the ground next to the tree. Aren't bears hibernating right now?
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: 6x6in6 on December 09, 2012, 09:06:27 PM
Porcupine
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KFhunter on December 09, 2012, 09:07:49 PM
put a camera on it

from the pics I'd say you found a cougar scratching post, does it smell like cat piss?
rained on it a lot though
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: carlyoungs on December 09, 2012, 09:08:58 PM
Bigfoots baby
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: ArrowH on December 09, 2012, 09:24:40 PM
looks like porcipine to me
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KFhunter on December 09, 2012, 09:39:52 PM
Why you saying porky?

I don't see any chips, don't see where they fed on the phloam layer of the tree.  Just looks like it's been clawed, which doesn't match a porky's teeth setup. 
They more like a beaver.

Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: ArrowH on December 09, 2012, 09:56:45 PM





Why you saying porky?

I don't see any chips, don't see where they fed on the phloam layer of the tree.  Just looks like it's been clawed, which doesn't match a porky's teeth setup. 
They more like a beaver.


looks to me like it is down to the cambium layer, and looks to be only about a foot off the ground, cougar would be a lot higher up as just like other cats they stretch out to claw, and usally just stratch straight down,raking the tree not tearing things up. But only seeing a photo and not being there can't tell for sure
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Kola16 on December 09, 2012, 09:59:17 PM
My little experience says it is not a porker  :dunno:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KFhunter on December 09, 2012, 10:01:23 PM
looking closer at the pic

now I'm thinking a buck rub
It appears the scratches were made in an upward motion, as the bark curls are at the top of the scratches not the bottom.

Cat would claw downward
Porkys chew down or sideways

Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KenPCPilot on December 09, 2012, 10:25:04 PM
What ever term you want to use bear scrape scratch. "Chew" is what I use.  Usually the bear will chew and claw closer to the ground and usually all the way around the trunk.  You wil see teeth naw marks as they eat the "prenumbra" I am not sure to the spelling.  Saw several old ones last year.  I have never seen similar tree marks.  I am most familar with bucks or bulls scraping up smaller sapling and trees.  usually the ground around the tree is torn up from the feet as they dig in to scrap.  my best guess is bear. 
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KFhunter on December 09, 2012, 10:30:11 PM
bear like firs around 4-6 inches maybe 8inches in thickness, and you'd see long peels usually
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: bobcat on December 09, 2012, 10:31:31 PM
I would say buck rub but I could be wrong.

Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: runamuk on December 09, 2012, 10:31:55 PM
deer
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 10, 2012, 06:24:28 AM
the scrape was about 3 ft off the ground even though it doesn't look like it in the pics. They are definit claw marks from very sharp claws. As I said above it looked as though a razor blade was drug along the tree in a downward motion.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: CementFinisher on December 10, 2012, 06:38:43 AM
Id have to say buck rub. bears are not pealing trees this time of year because the cambium layer isn't holding allot of carbs and sugars right now. Not a porky their teeth would show through allot more. not a cat because the shavings are all curled up. and it just looks erratic and beat up, scream Buck rub to me.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: boneaddict on December 10, 2012, 07:09:27 AM
Hell of a set of eyeguards is what you are looking at.   As noted scraped up.  Predators dont rake up.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 10, 2012, 07:19:17 AM
You are joking ...right... if you are not let me know where you saw this and I will gladly go and investigate it  :tup: :chuckle:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on December 10, 2012, 08:26:33 AM
Hell of a set of eyeguards is what you are looking at.   As noted scraped up.  Predators dont rake up.

Likely one studly Blacktail. 
 
-Steve
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 10, 2012, 08:27:36 AM
not joking. New to the game and just trying to learn about what we found. I've seen a lot of buck rubs on smaller saplings over the past few weeks in different gmu's from Winston to 460, 407, 454, and skookumchuck, and none have looked like that. I'll be the first to admit that I'm no expert and I did come to you guys for help. I'll have to invest in a game cam or two and scout that area over the summer.

Could it maybe be a bob cat since it was only about 3' off the ground?
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: bobcat on December 10, 2012, 08:33:07 AM
OK, looks like I found another good excuse to post this trail cam video I got last month:

http://s1140.beta.photobucket.com/user/bdan68/media/ONeill%20East%202012/WGI_0023.mp4.html (http://s1140.beta.photobucket.com/user/bdan68/media/ONeill%20East%202012/WGI_0023.mp4.html)
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 10, 2012, 10:07:51 AM
The slices were clean into the wood about 1/2 inch into it. it looked like I took my knife and acratched 4 equal spaced lines in it in several spots. plus the back side of the tree had 4 deep gouges into it in one swipe kind of like something held the back of the tree. and they are clean incisions. eye guards would not be able to make clean cuts like a knife that deep. specially 1 inch spacing between 4 cuts into the wood of the tree. Bobcat is my 2 cents.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: MooseStock on December 10, 2012, 10:21:12 AM
I agree that it is from a porcupine
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: runamuk on December 10, 2012, 10:25:13 AM
The slices were clean into the wood about 1/2 inch into it. it looked like I took my knife and acratched 4 equal spaced lines in it in several spots. plus the back side of the tree had 4 deep gouges into it in one swipe kind of like something held the back of the tree. and they are clean incisions. eye guards would not be able to make clean cuts like a knife that deep. specially 1 inch spacing between 4 cuts into the wood of the tree. Bobcat is my 2 cents.
you might be surprised what deer can do with antlers :twocents:

and most wild cats tend to claw mark on horizontal logs not verticals....and it usually smells strongly of cat piss with a good chance of finding piles of poop again.....  :twocents:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 10, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Not a bobcat, that is a deer rub. You should be hunting that area hard.

That's what I thought. :tup:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 10, 2012, 10:36:16 AM
once you learn how to recognize sign you will become a much better hunter...this type of sign is to be taken seriously if you are wanting to fill your tags ...Blacktail are like whitetail when it comes to marking their territory ...if you seen these rubs in a straight line heading down a road of old grade that is where I would be spending my time  :tup:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 10, 2012, 10:37:34 AM
OK, looks like I found another good excuse to post this trail cam video I got last month:

http://s1140.beta.photobucket.com/user/bdan68/media/ONeill%20East%202012/WGI_0023.mp4.html (http://s1140.beta.photobucket.com/user/bdan68/media/ONeill%20East%202012/WGI_0023.mp4.html)
:tup: :tup:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Griiz on December 10, 2012, 11:01:50 AM
Buck rub
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 10, 2012, 12:41:51 PM
once you learn how to recognize sign you will become a much better hunter...this type of sign is to be taken seriously if you are wanting to fill your tags ...Blacktail are like whitetail when it comes to marking their territory ...if you seen these rubs in a straight line heading down a road of old grade that is where I would be spending my time  :tup:

true, I have seen a ton of rubs in my time this one if its a rub, is a first for me.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 10, 2012, 12:54:53 PM
once you learn how to recognize sign you will become a much better hunter...this type of sign is to be taken seriously if you are wanting to fill your tags ...Blacktail are like whitetail when it comes to marking their territory ...if you seen these rubs in a straight line heading down a road of old grade that is where I would be spending my time  :tup:

What seems odd though is that is the only visible rub on the road.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: pianoman9701 on December 10, 2012, 01:57:31 PM
once you learn how to recognize sign you will become a much better hunter...this type of sign is to be taken seriously if you are wanting to fill your tags ...Blacktail are like whitetail when it comes to marking their territory ...if you seen these rubs in a straight line heading down a road of old grade that is where I would be spending my time  :tup:

What seems odd though is that is the only visible rub on the road.

Maybe it's on an animal trail that will betray more rubs? :dunno:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 10, 2012, 02:51:55 PM
That's a rub... Those razor blade marks you speak of are more then likely a hell of a set of eyegaurds.... Look how the wood is peeled.. I bet if you snooped around a little more you'd find some tracks staggered around the tree...
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 10, 2012, 03:09:45 PM
wow, learning experience for sure. I have never seen rubs that big. good stuff to know. like bowhunter45 said the more you learn the better the hunter you will be.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 10, 2012, 03:19:46 PM
I'll be spending some time in there for the off season for sure. At least now I've got a land mark to start my scouting.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 10, 2012, 03:38:59 PM
I'll be spending some time in there for the off season for sure. At least now I've got a land mark to start my scouting.
[/quote

Just dont be worried about the truck parked there when you get there, its just me already there...... :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 10, 2012, 03:40:07 PM
Here ya go ..I will round up some of the photos I have taken in last few years  :tup: when you see these it means buck deer in the area  :archery_smiley: :cue:
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 10, 2012, 03:43:36 PM
awesome! that is tore up!
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: KFhunter on December 10, 2012, 06:29:21 PM
wait till you see some huge bull rubs higher up that you can reach
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: bobcat on December 10, 2012, 06:49:55 PM
I think I posted the wrong video earlier. Here are a couple more. These trees are actually a little bigger than they appear to be in the video. They are all about 6 inches in diameter. They've been rubbed by bucks in at least the last two previous years.


http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0067.mp4 (http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0067.mp4)

http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0053.mp4 (http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0053.mp4)

http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0030.mp4 (http://s1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/bdan68/ONeill%20East%202012/?action=view&current=WGI_0030.mp4)
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: hornhunter1987 on December 11, 2012, 02:14:51 AM
really cool video. i didnt think a forky would rub a tree that big. learn something new every day. thanks for sharing
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: billythekidrock on December 11, 2012, 05:25:32 AM
Wow.....I have to say I am confused as to why some would answer porcupine, or anything other than deer for that matter.

It is clearly a buck rub and fairly recent to boot.

What seems odd though is that is the only visible rub on the road.

Blacktails often travel the roads during the rut and will rub/hook/horn every so often but they don't always make a rub line like whitetails.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Arnbo on December 11, 2012, 06:21:09 AM
I wouldbe waiting for that critter..Trailcam time........
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on December 11, 2012, 08:57:56 AM
Here is last years buck ...I killed him the last day of the season @ around 11:30 am ...just about gave up on him  :bdid: Notice the rub behind him !!!
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 11, 2012, 02:35:37 PM
Bobcats vids show it very well... Notice (you can really tell on the last vid with the smaller 3x) how every buck rubbed and went off to the side of the tree a little slower while closing their eye.. They're all scent marking the tree with the glands below their eye's... One reason why the big buck sniffed all the trees... Great vids!!     :tup:   
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: bobcat on December 11, 2012, 02:38:31 PM
Bobcats vids show it very well... Notice (you can really tell on the last vid with the smaller 3x) how every buck rubbed and went off to the side of the tree a little slower while closing their eye.. They're all scent marking the tree with the glands below their eye's... One reason why the big buck sniffed all the trees... Great vids!!     :tup:

Thanks! A lot of work went into getting those videos!
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: addicted2hunting on December 11, 2012, 02:48:53 PM
I just love the challenge of beating a buck. Taking him on his turf at his game!!
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: quadrafire on December 11, 2012, 02:50:27 PM
Good video there Bobcat.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 11, 2012, 07:36:55 PM
for some reason I can't view the videos on my iPhone but I do appreciate you posting them for the good of the thread bobcat.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: bobcat on December 11, 2012, 07:41:16 PM
for some reason I can't view the videos on my iPhone but I do appreciate you posting them for the good of the thread bobcat.

I can't view the videos on my iphone either.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 11, 2012, 08:04:13 PM
I might be able to get out after work on Thursday. That would afford me about a 3 hour sitting in view of the rub. I'm thinking I'll sit just inside the timber on the uphill side of the road. That would put me about 30 yards from the rub. Would it be worth it to get some blacktail estrus scent to spray around the tree a bit? Maybe drag a scent pad behind me on the walk in also? and maybe if nothing comes within a half hour of dark should I produce some subtle young buck grunts or a doe bleat?
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: Kowsrule30 on December 13, 2012, 11:54:15 AM
If any calling right now I'd go with a bleat...
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: steeliedrew on December 13, 2012, 12:37:14 PM
just picked up a Primos can and some moccasin joe's blacktail doe in heat urine. I figure it's a good cover scent if nothing else.
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: boneaddict on December 13, 2012, 12:42:40 PM
Small set of drops, tingle the tips togehter lightly.    Give it a rest (5 minutes) do it again, rest and again, rest and again.  Increase intensity a little......NOT MUCH.....again and again.   
Title: Re: what predator made this scrape?
Post by: ghostshell on December 29, 2012, 04:20:08 PM
buck... bear are usually as high as you ive found, cats are less deep, shallow and high upwards of 8-9 feet pending on snow etc...
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