Post by: TeacherMan on December 15, 2012, 12:41:07 PM
Thanks
Post by: Machias on December 15, 2012, 01:46:40 PM
Post by: JakeLand on December 15, 2012, 01:52:11 PM
Post by: TheNoob on December 15, 2012, 02:10:31 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on December 15, 2012, 02:38:48 PM
Post by: TheNoob on December 15, 2012, 02:46:15 PM
Post by: Machias on December 15, 2012, 04:47:35 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 15, 2012, 05:19:39 PM
Maybe drill a couple holes in the wood and add some pencil lead for weight?
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 15, 2012, 07:34:34 PM
Post by: TheNoob on December 15, 2012, 07:34:57 PM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 15, 2012, 07:41:29 PM
Post by: TeacherMan on December 15, 2012, 08:47:25 PM
Post by: TheNoob on December 15, 2012, 09:58:00 PM
Post by: Humptulips on December 15, 2012, 11:29:26 PM
"Body-gripping trap" means a trap that grips an animal's body or body part. Body-gripping trap includes, but is not limited to, steel-jawed leghold traps, padded-jaw leghold traps, Conibear traps, neck snares, and nonstrangling foot snares. Cage and box traps, suitcase-type live beaver traps, and common rat and mouse traps are not considered body-gripping traps
As you can see common mouse and rat traps are legal to use. You can modify them but not too substancially. If you get too carried away they will not be considered common anymore.
I have been building some for civets (not tested yet). I feel that they might be usable for muskrat but just a feeling so far.
I added a kill bar for the strike bar to go by; Epoxyed the staples so they won't come out when they get wet; laquered the wood to keep it dry; strengthened the springs by lifting the back end of the spring and remodeled the trigger slightly.
I made sure I left the trademark on the trap (Victor Rat Trap). It doesn't look much different then factory.
I wouldn't get too carried away with modifying them.
We have spoken to WDFW about this before and they will let a little modification slide but we will lose them if we get too carried away.
Very important to get an animals head positioned correctly for the strike I think.
On another note a good muskrat lure is mint toothpaste.
Post by: Machias on December 16, 2012, 08:15:21 AM
Post by: Da stump on December 16, 2012, 09:53:12 AM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 16, 2012, 12:50:34 PM
Post by: onetrapper on December 16, 2012, 02:37:00 PM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 16, 2012, 02:46:08 PM
Thinking you could braze a thin barbed point in the center to hold them til they drown
Nope, yes it will hold them, but it would also make the trap illegal to use.
Post by: TeacherMan on December 16, 2012, 07:55:14 PM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 16, 2012, 08:24:59 PM
Post by: onetrapper on December 16, 2012, 08:35:21 PM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 16, 2012, 09:14:35 PM
Post by: Humptulips on December 16, 2012, 09:47:55 PM
We asked the department to define what a rat traps was. They refused and threatened to define the wording in the law as only allowing a trap set for a common rat if we pushed it.
What the exact wording of the law is has never been settled. It is up to the officer who sees it how it is interpreted at this point.
I'm just saying to make sure it looks like a rat trap you buy at the hardware store. Then there should be no difficulties.
Post by: onetrapper on December 17, 2012, 08:59:36 AM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 17, 2012, 09:57:27 AM
Post by: Special T on December 17, 2012, 10:04:20 AM
Post by: onetrapper on December 17, 2012, 10:07:55 AM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 17, 2012, 10:20:55 AM
Post by: Machias on December 17, 2012, 10:32:22 AM
Where does it say that in the statute
They are a body gripping trap, mouse and rat traps were specifically exempted, all other body gripping traps including mole traps are illegal to use in WA. Not illegal to sell, that's why you still see them on the shelves, but are in fact currently illegal to use.
Post by: pnwmtnmn on December 17, 2012, 10:34:42 AM
Post by: onetrapper on December 17, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: Machias on December 17, 2012, 05:17:56 PM
Post by: Humptulips on December 17, 2012, 10:25:26 PM
Post by: onetrapper on December 18, 2012, 08:32:40 AM
Post by: WAPatriot on October 27, 2015, 07:36:03 AM
Post by: UrbanTrapper on October 27, 2015, 02:25:13 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310710985115?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true
Post by: Hannibal on October 27, 2015, 09:52:56 PM
to be set vertically just above the water...... downfall is incidentals,,,, so choose your bait wisely or my might be sighted for violating federal regulations,,,,.......
Post by: Humptulips on October 27, 2015, 10:08:15 PM
So what is the most powerful rat trap one can buy? I am gonna make some rat floats. What are those ones from Europe. I am thinking about going with the kess big snap e rat trap
Back when we were dealing with Steve Pozanghria we tried to get a clarification on what the Department considered to be a rat trap. We were pushing for some of the smaller Koros and #0 traps to be legal. They are or were sold as rat traps. Steve basically told us to drop the whole thing or he would see to it that the law was interpreted to mean a rat trap was only a rat trap if set for rats. We were scared off as we thought we might lose even the victor rat trap for weasels. Right now the only trap you can be 100% sure is OK is the victor rat trap or a knock off of them.
Times change and Steve is gone from Olympia. We have made some initial inquiries about restarting some talks about defining "rat traps". Maybe things will change in the future.
Post by: Hannibal on October 27, 2015, 10:21:25 PM
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2015, 10:36:22 PM
A rat and a mouse are not classified as furbearing, so therefore body gripping traps are still allowed on them.
A mole is considered in Washington state as a furbearer. So there for body gripping traps are illegal to use on them.
Now I must say I have never seen a product made of real mole skin. :dunno:
Post by: whitey on October 27, 2015, 10:54:41 PM
So what is the most powerful rat trap one can buy? I am gonna make some rat floats. What are those ones from Europe. I am thinking about going with the kess big snap e rat trap
Back when we were dealing with Steve Pozanghria we tried to get a clarification on what the Department considered to be a rat trap. We were pushing for some of the smaller Koros and #0 traps to be legal. They are or were sold as rat traps. Steve basically told us to drop the whole thing or he would see to it that the law was interpreted to mean a rat trap was only a rat trap if set for rats. We were scared off as we thought we might lose even the victor rat trap for weasels. Right now the only trap you can be 100% sure is OK is the victor rat trap or a knock off of them.
Times change and Steve is gone from Olympia. We have made some initial inquiries about restarting some talks about defining "rat traps". Maybe things will change in the future.
I disagree.
If its intended use is for weasels, its illegal.
It is only a rat trap if set for rats.
Other than that its a body gripping trap.
I have a great deal of time on this subject being a NWCO for many years and very busy one at that.
Just saying the people that a person could be dealing with on this matter (LEO) will more than likely ask " why are you trapping rats out here" :yike:
Just my :twocents:
Post by: Humptulips on October 28, 2015, 12:44:33 AM
If we are refering to using rat traps for furbearers (weasels, mink, ect) they are a body gripping trap, illegal.(Yep)
A rat and a mouse are not classified as furbearing, so therefore body gripping traps are still allowed on them.
A mole is considered in Washington state as a furbearer. So there for body gripping traps are illegal to use on them.
Now I must say I have never seen a product made of real mole skin. :dunno:
You have a number of things wrong. This is the definition of a bodygripping trap from RCW77.15.192
(2) "Body-gripping trap" means a trap that grips an animal's body or body part. Body-gripping trap includes, but is not limited to, steel-jawed leghold traps, padded-jaw leghold traps, Conibear traps, neck snares, and nonstrangling foot snares. Cage and box traps, suitcase-type live beaver traps, and common rat and mouse traps are not considered body-gripping traps.
So as you can see " rat traps" are not considered bodygripping traps and therefore are legal to use.
The designation of an animal as a furbearer or not has nothing to do with the ability to use bodygripping traps. The law deals with what types of traps may be used and the word furbearer is not mentioned in the law.
And moles are not considered furbearers. They are unclassified. Incidentally gopher traps are illegal and they not a furbearer either.
The law is a little vague with the phrase "common rat and mouse traps". We interpret that to mean traps designed and sold to catch common rats and traps designed and sold to catch mice. It could also be interpreted to mean common traps for those animals and not something built one or two of. In other words you would have to be able to go buy one someplace.
If the definition reads as you and Steve Pozanghria wish to interpret it, my question is what is a common rat. I have never been able to find that in any definitions and there are a lot of rodents people call rats, many of them pretty common here in the NW. They should have listed which ones they were talking about if that is what they meant.
Also for 15 years WDFW has allowed the use of victor rat traps for weasels. I think that pretty well establishes they consider a trap sold as a rat trap, e.g. for weasels, is a legal trap.
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2015, 07:49:15 AM
Run what you brung.
I dont care to go tit for tat, but your not the only one that has been around this topic (Trapping).
You will talk till your blue in the face trying to sell me on the use of a rat traps on the trap line for anything other than rats.
Peace..OUT.
Post by: WAPatriot on October 28, 2015, 09:16:16 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwawildlife.com%2Fmuskratrattrap.jpg&hash=91f504a286e0f2ce0d096301fd75c62f7eb57515)
to be set vertically just above the water...... downfall is incidentals,,,, so choose your bait wisely or my might be sighted for violating federal regulations,,,,.......
Never thought to try that way I am gonna have to add that to the asernal.
Post by: Machias on October 28, 2015, 10:31:41 AM
does it not grip the body?
Run what you brung.
I dont care to go tit for tat, but your not the only one that has been around this topic (Trapping).
You will talk till your blue in the face trying to sell me on the use of a rat traps on the trap line for anything other than rats.
Peace..OUT.
No need to talk till we are blue in the face, we just need to read the law as it is written. Rat traps are legal to use.
Post by: Bigshooter on October 28, 2015, 04:52:48 PM
does it not grip the body?
Run what you brung.
I dont care to go tit for tat, but your not the only one that has been around this topic (Trapping).
You will talk till your blue in the face trying to sell me on the use of a rat traps on the trap line for anything other than rats.
Peace..OUT.
I'm right because I know I'm right doesn't always mean you are right.
Post by: Humptulips on October 28, 2015, 06:07:16 PM
does it not grip the body?
Run what you brung.
I dont care to go tit for tat, but your not the only one that has been around this topic (Trapping).
You will talk till your blue in the face trying to sell me on the use of a rat traps on the trap line for anything other than rats.
Peace..OUT.
All that needs to be said is that rat traps are specifically exempted from the law and therefore not considered bodygripping traps in the legal sense. Read for yourself, http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.192
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.194
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2015, 11:09:17 PM
OK then.
Good luck trapping this season.
Post by: Humptulips on October 28, 2015, 11:18:19 PM
Please try to keep things civil. No need for a minor disagreement on wording to drive a wedge in the trapping community.
Post by: whitey on October 28, 2015, 11:23:22 PM
Thanks Humptulips.
I always play well with others till they start insulting me.
Good Call. 8)
Post by: bob maier on October 29, 2015, 10:47:23 AM
Post by: Humptulips on October 29, 2015, 11:16:49 AM
I know I tried to make them work for civets and didn't have any luck. Civets are a similar size to muskrat. You can power them up all you want but the jaw needs to be bigger. I don't see a way around that. If you modify them too much they are no longer going to be considered a rat trap. Changing out the jaw would be going to far.
Someone's going to have to get more innovative then me to make them work.
Post by: winslow on October 30, 2015, 10:22:41 AM
I spoke with Milt Brownell about this. Milt is a very good rat trapper from California. He told me he had experimented with victor rat traps for muskrat and found them to be lacking. I think the problem is the jaw is so small the rat cannot get far enough into the trap and it whacks them on the forehead instead of the neck. Milt said he had a lot of empty sprung traps.As usual, Bruce, nicely said. I'd add that there are two definite downsides to experimenting with rat traps for muskrats given what you said:
I know I tried to make them work for civets and didn't have any luck. Civets are a similar size to muskrat. You can power them up all you want but the jaw needs to be bigger. I don't see a way around that. If you modify them too much they are no longer going to be considered a rat trap. Changing out the jaw would be going to far.
Someone's going to have to get more innovative then me to make them work.
1. A good hunter wouldn't hunt an animal with an underpowered weapon knowing he could injure it, possibly mortally, without being able to recover it. Trapping should follow the same guidelines, in my humble opinion.
2. I don't know that muskrats get trap shy, because I don't think there are too many muskrat misses with your typical colony trap, but if they start getting smacked in the forehead I wouldn't rule out the possibility. Colony traps aren't legal in a lot of states, we should be happy that we are allowed to use them in spite of all the crazy laws we do have!
Anyhow, I personally won't be putting out any rat traps for anything but Norway rats and weasels. :)
Winslow
Post by: Luna butte on October 30, 2015, 08:51:42 PM