Post by: Humptulips on January 07, 2013, 08:29:03 PM
I built my first cat cages following these guidelines. I am starting to have my doubts. My lowest roofed trap has also been my most productive trap. Not 100% sure but 15x15 or 14x14. My other traps are either 18" or 19" high and even though they have far more trap nights out then the 15x15 they have not produced particularly well. Could it be a fluke? Absolutely, but if not are the bigger traps really worth it. I've also tried a lot of goofy trap designs some of them pretty big and watched cats look, circle, and leave.
I'm thinking of making some next year and leaning towards 15x15. I'd be interested in hearing others thoughts on cat cage size.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on January 07, 2013, 08:34:21 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 07, 2013, 08:49:38 PM
Because of observations on what sets looked like that actually caught cats I am thinking about building cat traps out of wood instead of cage. Door would be metal. It seems like my catches have been ones where I stacked solid material like bark around the trap so it was more like a dark hole. Wood I think would be more natural and that kind of plays into my experience experimenting with conibears for cats several years ago.
I figure I could build three traps out of two sheets of plywood so the cost would be acceptable.
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on January 07, 2013, 09:00:55 PM
Post by: 3nails on January 07, 2013, 09:07:37 PM
Post by: DUGANDEER on January 07, 2013, 09:13:05 PM
Post by: bugs n bones on January 07, 2013, 09:15:53 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 07, 2013, 11:17:32 PM
Other then that it is an impressive piece of engineering. Plenty strong I think. There is something to be said for a light trap.
If a 15x15 trap is equal otherwise just the savings in space hauling it around would give it the edge I think in my truck.
Post by: bugs n bones on January 08, 2013, 07:02:07 AM
Post by: jackmaster on January 08, 2013, 07:15:32 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on January 08, 2013, 07:18:28 AM
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 08, 2013, 07:32:24 AM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 08, 2013, 08:48:34 AM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 08, 2013, 05:49:39 PM
Post by: trapperguy22 on January 08, 2013, 06:06:13 PM
Post by: onetrapper on January 08, 2013, 06:37:13 PM
Post by: Machias on January 08, 2013, 06:56:50 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 08, 2013, 07:03:03 PM
Here's my thoughts on a "natural" wood box trap. Why not use local timber, build it like a small log cabin to appropriate size. Build it solid using spike or deck screws. Build it in place at a toilet or some similar place where cats are drawn to. leave it there yearly make the door frame removeable 6 or 8 screws holding the frame to the body of the trap. The frame, door and pan goes in the back of your truck when you are down in that spot. All that is left in the woods is a box of small logs.
Nope, I'm thinking one that would fold up. I think built right it would take up very little space, easy to carry and fast to put together. When I was trapping in OR I moved my cat line about every two weeks and it worked pretty good. I'd like to be able to move easily if I feel like it.
As far as holding odor that would be a good thing once you've caught that first cat. :chuckle:
I don't see that as a problem.
Post by: Machias on January 08, 2013, 07:08:17 PM
http://www.rmrs.nau.edu/publications/Kolbeetal/Kolbeetal.pdf (http://www.rmrs.nau.edu/publications/Kolbeetal/Kolbeetal.pdf)
Post by: Humptulips on January 08, 2013, 07:17:33 PM
hey humptulips, i know this is off thread but do you have pics of bobcats that you have trapped over the years, maybe even like a new thread kinda like how teacher does his yearly trapping journal and maybe some coyotes, hey heres a question was it or is it legal to catch cougars in a live trap, or a leg hold back in the day? sorry off topic i know, just want to see pics :tup:
I have a few pictures. Most are not on my computer. I kind of hate to post pictures from years past. It would make me look like I have this cat trapping figured out which I do not. Trapped a bunch of stuff over the years but not with cages. I have a lot to learn.
Cougar, Yea it was legal to trap cougar back before they were a big game animal. Once they were classified as a big game animal that ended.
I proposed to WDFW that they reclassify them as a furbearer like bobcat and 'coon to increase harvest. All of a sudden it was like I stepped in something. :DOH:
Post by: Machias on January 08, 2013, 07:43:35 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2F00small49822391.jpg&hash=1e6741f888af3d217617ca9304f8805f3fa148ee)
Post by: Humptulips on January 08, 2013, 07:57:23 PM
Post by: Machias on January 08, 2013, 08:06:11 PM
Post by: jackmaster on January 09, 2013, 07:43:12 AM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 09, 2013, 08:14:55 AM
Post by: Machias on January 09, 2013, 09:17:19 AM
I'll never purchase another "short" trap. I've caught plenty of cats in those 15"ers, but have also had five times the amount of false closes. Never have this problem with the 18-22" models. Width isn't an issue with me either. The skinnier they are, means they are lighter and easier to haul around. :twocents:
Any chance it was door design and wind, or are you certain they are backing out?
Post by: Humptulips on January 09, 2013, 09:30:40 AM
that is awesome, that was animal i loved to trap back in the day was bobcats, i surly miss the sound of sneaking up on a set and hearing the chain rattling and seeing a cat in there.....so humptulips when you suggested that they reclassify cougars did you get flamed for it or did the wdfw just think you were insane
Pretty much thought I was insane. Thing is it makes sence to me. They are not reacing their quotas on cougar. The deer and elk are taking a beating and they say their hands are tied by the law against hound hunting and they can't get a repeal passed. They could reclassify cougars without going to the Legislature. Probably would bring in some money too as their would be non-trappers interested just to take a cougar. Couldn't claim inhumane. It would have to be in box traps and you could turn one loose if the department wanted to limit the take of say females.
Texas is the only state that allows trapping of cougar so maybe they would even sell some out of state licenses.
Pretty clear they thought it was all crazy talk.
Post by: Humptulips on January 09, 2013, 09:34:03 AM
I'll never purchase another "short" trap. I've caught plenty of cats in those 15"ers, but have also had five times the amount of false closes. Never have this problem with the 18-22" models. Width isn't an issue with me either. The skinnier they are, means they are lighter and easier to haul around. :twocents:
So I take it short means not tall enough. If you had 15"s out would longer models make up for height in regard to the false closes? how long were the traps you had problems with?
Post by: MtnMuley on January 09, 2013, 11:46:55 AM
I'll never purchase another "short" trap. I've caught plenty of cats in those 15"ers, but have also had five times the amount of false closes. Never have this problem with the 18-22" models. Width isn't an issue with me either. The skinnier they are, means they are lighter and easier to haul around. :twocents:
Any chance it was door design and wind, or are you certain they are backing out?
Absolutely not door design or wind. They definately backed out. I had one do it 3 days in a row. I hauled the trap off the mountain, and placed one of my ole faithful tall traps in there, and had had a 28lb tom in it the next morning.
Post by: MtnMuley on January 09, 2013, 11:51:59 AM
I'll never purchase another "short" trap. I've caught plenty of cats in those 15"ers, but have also had five times the amount of false closes. Never have this problem with the 18-22" models. Width isn't an issue with me either. The skinnier they are, means they are lighter and easier to haul around. :twocents:
So I take it short means not tall enough. If you had 15"s out would longer models make up for height in regard to the false closes? how long were the traps you had problems with?
Yes, not tall enough. My 15's and roughly the same length as all the other traps I have. I will get a tape out and measure them tonight. Personally, I feel these larger cats tend to trip the door with there hind end. Several sets where this occurred, the cage was dislodged, as to suggest a struggle. Have had fur spread out around the door several times on false closes as well. Don't get me wrong, I've caught plenty of cats in the shorter traps, but always use the tall traps in my best areas.
Post by: jackmaster on January 09, 2013, 12:10:48 PM
i take it you told them that and they still thought you were nuts.....? typical wdfw b.s i think it is a great idea, they havent came up with a way to keep the cat numbers down and the deer especially are getting hammered especially in the mashel unit, i know live trappn big cats wouldnt put a big hurtn on them, hell still probably wouldnt be able to reach the qoutas but it sure would help and definatly would put more coin in their pockets......so here is an idea, whats to stop a big ole cougar from going in your real big bobcat trap?that is awesome, that was animal i loved to trap back in the day was bobcats, i surly miss the sound of sneaking up on a set and hearing the chain rattling and seeing a cat in there.....so humptulips when you suggested that they reclassify cougars did you get flamed for it or did the wdfw just think you were insane
Pretty much thought I was insane. Thing is it makes sence to me. They are not reacing their quotas on cougar. The deer and elk are taking a beating and they say their hands are tied by the law against hound hunting and they can't get a repeal passed. They could reclassify cougars without going to the Legislature. Probably would bring in some money too as their would be non-trappers interested just to take a cougar. Couldn't claim inhumane. It would have to be in box traps and you could turn one loose if the department wanted to limit the take of say females.
Texas is the only state that allows trapping of cougar so maybe they would even sell some out of state licenses.
Pretty clear they thought it was all crazy talk.
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 09, 2013, 01:51:31 PM
If I had a josled trap and cat hair I would consider that cat was in the trap and perhaps the door lock failed.
I use many different cat traps. My favorite door size on a cage would be 10'-12" x 18". My narrowist doors are 9". These traps see alot of use (even though they are my least favorite.) as their footprint is smaller and easier to bed stable in steep and/or rocky country.
My favorite size is the size that Fatslinger uses on beaver. But it goes out the least as it's usually difficult for me to find a big enough flat spot for it.
Have two different sizes of camtrip. Well made trap. Many movable parts that need to be protected and weatherproofed. Freeze/thaw is a big concern with these. Even though I wrap my cat cages in plastic. Mercers you can't wrap the lock lever or it will not lockup. Vasoline and protect from above.
At times have purposely taken cats in 10"x12"x32" cages. When I do this I set them up differently, which I will not go into here. But you can stuff a lot of cat in this cage.
So in summation Bruce, Id just layout your trap to use your sheet of plywood economically and don't look back.
Post by: UrbanTrapper on January 09, 2013, 02:27:41 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on January 09, 2013, 03:14:06 PM
MtnMuley, My experience has been that a cat doesn't bump anything he doesn't want to bump. I still shake my head when I recall the times on fresh snow seeing how a tom oozed completly through a 8" snare loop back when.
If I had a josled trap and cat hair I would consider that cat was in the trap and perhaps the door lock failed.
I use many different cat traps. My favorite door size on a cage would be 10'-12" x 18". My narrowist doors are 9". These traps see alot of use (even though they are my least favorite.) as their footprint is smaller and easier to bed stable in steep and/or rocky country.
My favorite size is the size that Fatslinger uses on beaver. But it goes out the least as it's usually difficult for me to find a big enough flat spot for it.
Have two different sizes of camtrip. Well made trap. Many movable parts that need to be protected and weatherproofed. Freeze/thaw is a big concern with these. Even though I wrap my cat cages in plastic. Mercers you can't wrap the lock lever or it will not lockup. Vasoline and protect from above.
At times have purposely taken cats in 10"x12"x32" cages. When I do this I set them up differently, which I will not go into here. But you can stuff a lot of cat in this cage.
So in summation Bruce, Id just layout your trap to use your sheet of plywood economically and don't look back.
10-12'x18" is the perfect size for me as well. I strictly use swing doors only, and have several complaints with drop doors. Most of mine have a dual locking system with washers and and a spring pin assembly down below. I'm very sure the doors didn't malfunction. Good, solid info you stated as well. Very true. :tup:
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 09, 2013, 03:20:22 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 09, 2013, 06:58:43 PM
i take it you told them that and they still thought you were nuts.....? typical wdfw b.s i think it is a great idea, they havent came up with a way to keep the cat numbers down and the deer especially are getting hammered especially in the mashel unit, i know live trappn big cats wouldnt put a big hurtn on them, hell still probably wouldnt be able to reach the qoutas but it sure would help and definatly would put more coin in their pockets......so here is an idea, whats to stop a big ole cougar from going in your real big bobcat trap?that is awesome, that was animal i loved to trap back in the day was bobcats, i surly miss the sound of sneaking up on a set and hearing the chain rattling and seeing a cat in there.....so humptulips when you suggested that they reclassify cougars did you get flamed for it or did the wdfw just think you were insane
Pretty much thought I was insane. Thing is it makes sence to me. They are not reacing their quotas on cougar. The deer and elk are taking a beating and they say their hands are tied by the law against hound hunting and they can't get a repeal passed. They could reclassify cougars without going to the Legislature. Probably would bring in some money too as their would be non-trappers interested just to take a cougar. Couldn't claim inhumane. It would have to be in box traps and you could turn one loose if the department wanted to limit the take of say females.
Texas is the only state that allows trapping of cougar so maybe they would even sell some out of state licenses.
Pretty clear they thought it was all crazy talk.
Nothing illegal about catching a cougar in a legally set trap. You only break the law when you don't release it. Not much point in catching one if you can't keep it.
Post by: onetrapper on January 09, 2013, 08:17:58 PM
Post by: pnwmtnmn on January 11, 2013, 01:12:33 PM
Here's my thoughts on a "natural" wood box trap. Why not use local timber, build it like a small log cabin to appropriate size. Build it solid using spike or deck screws. Build it in place at a toilet or some similar place where cats are drawn to. leave it there yearly make the door frame removeable 6 or 8 screws holding the frame to the body of the trap. The frame, door and pan goes in the back of your truck when you are down in that spot. All that is left in the woods is a box of small logs.
What I am talking about isn't a moveable trap per sae, it is more of a permanent wood cubby with removeable door and frame. use year after year. and if someone steals it or destroys it, it won't be a big monetary loss.
Post by: TheNoob on January 11, 2013, 01:17:28 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on January 11, 2013, 03:32:24 PM
I'm thinking a summer day or two with a chainsaw could yeild several nice cages ready for doors and pans to be quickly screwed on.
I drew up a modified sketch of what I used to do with logs for conibears. Real easy to do on site with a saw and a screw gun. Assume it could be adapted to a cage door and pan.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1084.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj411%2FDieselchessy%2FCage.png&hash=679a4d6b4dcb6b47226541425d500761a8a5a171)
Post by: onetrapper on January 11, 2013, 05:10:25 PM
Post by: Beartrap on January 11, 2013, 07:11:47 PM
Post by: Humptulips on January 11, 2013, 07:14:35 PM
Just wondering how many cats will you find in an area?
That would depend on the habitat. One year in OR I caught 25 in a line about 20 miles long over a period of a little over two weeks. There was a lot of land that could not be accessed on either side of this road that was pretty good habitat for cats to filter in from. I thought that was about the thickest you could ever expect. I have to admit though I over trapped that line because next year there weren't many cats there.
On the low end I trapped another area in the snow in OR so tracks were visible. I caught one cat in a triangle about 10 miles on a side. That was the only track I saw.
Post by: Humptulips on January 11, 2013, 07:17:50 PM
My thoughts are to keep it simple. I have used 24x18x48 the cats do not like them very well. The 10x14x36 catch a few but the 12x14x36 works very well. I like to use an old stump for a back stop. Put a 14x48 1/2" plywood on top to keep snow out of cage, then I cover sides with boughs or brush or bark if it's handy. I feel the dark hole is the attraction.
Now that fits in with my thinking.
Post by: TeacherMan on January 11, 2013, 07:29:11 PM
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 14, 2013, 04:01:40 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 14, 2013, 04:39:42 PM
tall/narrow - is it place along a large rock or cliffside to look like an alcove or left in the open and piled with branches/sticks?
I'd think *I haven't done any cage trapping* that the presentation would dictate a lot in the desired shape/size of trap.
I plan to build my own cages due to cost, I've got everything needed so I follow these threads.
Post by: Chesapeake on January 15, 2013, 11:27:52 AM
OK, for a good idea on how to build a permanent box trap look up how the State traps wolverine up the Methow. The Canadians came up with this trap. The US one is an upgrade. Study the pics and you will see how their trigger mechanism works. I build two of these summer before last. At spots that are historical cat spots for me. Last season I took 3 cats out of those traps. This season I am not working that cat line. So they are disabled and waiting. I made mine out of shelving material instead of logs.
Looks like a heavy drop door top and a pair of vicegrips that get released by the critter pulling on the bait as a trigger???
http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/olympia/wet/team-research/for-carnivor/North_Cascades_Wolverine_Study_2010_Annual_Report1.pdf (http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/olympia/wet/team-research/for-carnivor/North_Cascades_Wolverine_Study_2010_Annual_Report1.pdf)
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 15, 2013, 12:08:52 PM
Post by: Chesapeake on January 15, 2013, 01:50:15 PM
Yep thats it. The canadians use a "panic snap" off a lead rope as their release. The vicegrip from the American disign is better in my opinion.
The panic snap might be harder to rig initialy, but likely more resistant to corrosion than the vicegrips would be. The vicegrips would be more easily adjustable as for trigger pressure than the panic snap though.
Did you use the same roof door setup, or rig a guillotine type door? What did you do as for killing the cat, small hole to shoot through, or lift the door a crack and shoot?
Seems interesting enough.
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 15, 2013, 02:22:12 PM
Post by: UrbanTrapper on January 19, 2013, 07:10:57 PM
OK, for a good idea on how to build a permanent box trap look up how the State traps wolverine up the Methow. The Canadians came up with this trap. The US one is an upgrade. Study the pics and you will see how their trigger mechanism works. I build two of these summer before last. At spots that are historical cat spots for me. Last season I took 3 cats out of those traps. This season I am not working that cat line. So they are disabled and waiting. I made mine out of shelving material instead of logs.Do you think you could catch coyotes in a trap like this? Do you think coyotes refuse because of the metal on a normal cage trap or is it the confined space?
Post by: Humptulips on January 19, 2013, 08:02:16 PM
Post by: SunnySlopes on January 21, 2013, 07:56:56 AM
They also caught fox in the log traps. A coyote would be possible in a log one.