Post by: Landowner on January 21, 2013, 07:27:15 PM
Post by: huntnphool on January 21, 2013, 07:43:48 PM
Post by: muleyslayer#1 on January 22, 2013, 09:08:12 AM
Nice big two point on the right.I second that. Looks like he's gonna need to be taken out to get rid of those genes.
Post by: 724wd on January 22, 2013, 09:42:49 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on January 22, 2013, 09:50:13 AM
Post by: yote on January 22, 2013, 06:53:17 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1305.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fs552%2Fmarkroberto1990%2FScreenshot2013-01-22at65017PM_zps8cf583e0.png&hash=e12f3684a1dba64b41b09b63f727ae7588d43364)
Post by: Cap.Silver on January 22, 2013, 06:59:26 PM
An enlarged pic - sure does look like an eye guard on that one side...
:yeah:
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 22, 2013, 07:07:59 PM
Post by: fly4fish on January 22, 2013, 10:41:55 PM
Post by: ing on January 22, 2013, 11:51:24 PM
Post by: kenjo on January 23, 2013, 06:45:20 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkenjo.smugmug.com%2FLookouts%2FTable-Rock-LO-2012%2Fi-FXHfCPw%2F0%2FS%2FIMGA0030-S.jpg&hash=c3f090fe6dfc2d4ccd9f1fce5c49f3eeee62e368)
Also, bears:
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkenjo.smugmug.com%2FLookouts%2FTable-Rock-LO-2012%2Fi-wDpnrzc%2F0%2FS%2FDSCF0826-S.jpg&hash=5e9cf67e6a107bb89417e6b84071b1933a20208e)
Post by: yote on January 23, 2013, 11:38:21 AM
Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!
You may get a surprise on that middle left boom :chuckle: better pray for an eye guard on that little guy ;)
Post by: ing on January 23, 2013, 12:10:39 PM
Ah no worries, he'll be legal this year.Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom!
You may get a surprise on that middle left boom :chuckle: better pray for an eye guard on that little guy ;)
Post by: Woodchuck on January 23, 2013, 12:28:24 PM
Post by: C-Money on January 23, 2013, 03:03:38 PM
Post by: firefighter4607 on January 23, 2013, 03:07:41 PM
Nice bucks for sure!:yeah: Thanks for sharing.
Post by: ShaneTyTrey on January 23, 2013, 03:11:09 PM
Post by: fly4fish on January 24, 2013, 07:47:08 PM
Those damn two points are devastaing the eastern washington mule deer heard, have been for 20 years now.
I believe the shooting of all the 2X3's and the poor 1 year old 2 points with eye guards to be the reason for our struggling buck heard. We have fine genetics, they just don't get the age.
Post by: JM on January 25, 2013, 07:37:06 AM
Post by: doyourtime89 on January 25, 2013, 09:40:03 AM
Post by: deadwoodbuck on January 25, 2013, 10:40:58 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on January 25, 2013, 01:02:22 PM
Those damn two points are devastaing the eastern washington mule deer heard, have been for 20 years now.
I believe the shooting of all the 2X3's and the poor 1 year old 2 points with eye guards to be the reason for our struggling buck heard. We have fine genetics, they just don't get the age.
Agreed...
The last year it was any buck, we were told by the biologist that the 3 point or better rule was a 5 year plan. At the end of the 5 years they would review it to see if it meet the goals they set. They wanted to produce older more mature bucks to help with the 1-3 year old bucks getting shot off. Now 20 years later we are being told that most the deer killed are between the age of 1-3 years old. So how does that make sense?
I don't think giving out almost 1200 doe permits per year in 162/163 helped things. Nor did letting youths shoot any deer for years without a special draw. We were told by the game department that the reason why they eliminated youths being able to shoot any deer, was because parents were registering youths at ages far to young to hunt (as young as 5 years old). The parents would end up shooting a spike or 2 point to fill their youths tag. They were moreless taking advanatage of the system. Not to mention they advertised on the back page of the game regulations that Marengo/Dayton as the #1 deer success rate in the state of Washington. I wish I saved the regulations from 20 years ago, so I could post it. Apparently the game department did not take these factors into consideration, when trying to meet their goals.
Post by: fly4fish on January 26, 2013, 12:34:22 AM
What about 18"-24" wide 2 points with eyeguards? I hope you aren't saying that harvesting those is killing off our mule deer herds in Washington?
I would say that the average rifle hunter had better be shooting because the odds of seeing anything bigger in the next week are slim. I got nothing against shooting 3 year old 2 points with eye guards. A 2 year old 2 point could be easily be a 4X4 the following year, and would likely have eye gaurds if he had them the year before as a 2 point. I kind of like the management hunt tag idea, but if that were to be done in Eastern Washington, I would bet a large percent of the bucks killed would be 2 year old 2 points.
What it all comes down to is the theory which I believe to be true, that if we had more and better predator management, we might would have enough deer to harvest whichever one we wanted, and still have opportunity at older aged deer.
Post by: BLUEBULLS on January 28, 2013, 07:22:04 AM
the 3pt or better rule has done nothing but help units 162/163, there are way more "better" bucks being killed now.
Post by: woodywsu on January 28, 2013, 08:51:30 AM
Post by: fly4fish on January 28, 2013, 10:34:09 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on January 29, 2013, 12:43:47 AM
do you remember what the hunting was like in 162/163 before the 3pt or better rule? 99% of deer killed were spikes and 2 points. I'm all for the rule and and in that area the reason you see so many 2 points is because you're generally only seeing 1 and 2 year old deer. It's not like there are a bunch of mature 2 points running around. At times you'll see a big, older 2 point but it's mainly due to the fact that he's not legal.
the 3pt or better rule has done nothing but help units 162/163, there are way more "better" bucks being killed now.
I agree as well. I think it was a smart move. Years ago it was nothing but spikes and fork horns. The occasional 3 point would get hung up in our camp. 3 point or better definately did the 2 units justice. I am glad they changed the other factors I spoke of, because way too many does were getting shot off.
Post by: Landowner on January 29, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong. Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.
Post by: skywalker253 on January 30, 2013, 12:01:10 AM
Post by: Landowner on February 02, 2013, 08:52:25 PM
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on February 02, 2013, 09:07:34 PM
Here's some more photos of those in my original post. In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds. Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes.
The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong. Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.
I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.
Post by: Roperfive88 on February 04, 2013, 12:44:51 PM
To add to that they need to give some 2pt only tags even if it is only for master hunters. Just to take out some of the huge 2pts that are ruining the gene pools in these herds. The three point rule is protecting them. In the few pictures I only see one that might be a 5X5. The reason that I say Master hunters is that I don"t want the meat hunter just go shoot a little 2 pt. They have a chance to grow. The big ones are what they are going to be. Every year during the rut all I see is these big two points with the does :bash:Here's some more photos of those in my original post. In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds. Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes.
The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong. Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.
I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.
Post by: skywalker253 on February 04, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
To add to that they need to give some 2pt only tags even if it is only for master hunters. Just to take out some of the huge 2pts that are ruining the gene pools in these herds. The three point rule is protecting them. In the few pictures I only see one that might be a 5X5. The reason that I say Master hunters is that I don"t want the meat hunter just go shoot a little 2 pt. They have a chance to grow. The big ones are what they are going to be. Every year during the rut all I see is these big two points with the does :bash:Here's some more photos of those in my original post. In my opinion, WDFW needs to close hunting on all mulies for 2 to 3 years in the Dayton and Tucannon units (and probably Marengo) in order to build the herds. Then, open it to 3 or 4 pt. or larger only for a couple of years to see how it goes.
The mulies just don't have the characteristics of the whitetails for the herds to stay strong. Mainly, their choice of rocky and open terrain instead of the timber and thick brush preferred by the whitetails.
I be all for that. There are plenty of whitetails to chase around. I loved hearing the stories from dad and granddad about the mulie hunting in the blues. I seems the only place you see them anymore is down low, I'd really love to see them return up higher again and see some more roaming the hills.
Just curious; has it been scientifically proven that when the big 2 point mates with a doe, that his offspring will also be nothing larger then a 2 point?
Have any of you ever heard if the game department goes in and shoots these bucks off to try and better the overall production of the area?
There are plenty of careless hunters shooting off big 2 points every season. They see the big rack and assume it is legal. See it every year....
Post by: fly4fish on February 04, 2013, 02:40:59 PM
Post by: Roperfive88 on February 05, 2013, 03:25:11 PM
Post by: borntoslay on February 06, 2013, 09:46:10 AM
Post by: borntoslay on February 06, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
Post by: Stizz on February 06, 2013, 10:53:17 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on February 06, 2013, 12:56:13 PM
The higher portions have satisfactory numbers of 2,3,4 point etc. The higher portions might not have the numbers they did 30 years ago but in the past 15 years I haven't seen much change. The population in the higher country isn't going to increase much with the elk population the way it is. With fire suppression in neighboring units and the elk, there just isn't much excellent habitat.
Basically, the lower portion of the units are always going to be a place to go hunt and see a lot of deer but basically no big mule deer. It's a great opportunity for those that don't hunt for horns and those that like to keep the kids entertained. Whitetail are a slightly different story, due to the cover that they use, some are able to elude hunters and get some age on them.
Post by: borntoslay on February 07, 2013, 01:03:03 AM
Post by: skywalker253 on February 07, 2013, 11:20:47 PM
Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out. Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw. We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....
IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.
Post by: Roperfive88 on February 08, 2013, 08:18:58 AM
Youth don't get to shoot any buck. The 3 point minimum still applies to them for as long as I have been hunting. For the 4 pt. minimum I know places in Oregon that have gone to that and all that you see any more is big three points. For alto of people it is just about getting a deer The only way you can really help the population is to stop hunting, which would suck, or set the mule deer hunting on special permit and have quotes on how may bucks are killed each year.Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crap 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mu lies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gum's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mu lies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alto of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's I remember there was alto more of this tall brush ( not crap ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. ID if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the Merino unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mu lies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alto of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out. Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw. We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....
IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Bro ughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alto of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.
Post by: ing on February 08, 2013, 09:52:54 AM
If the WDFW changes the point restrictions to 4 point or better they will never change it back. Look at their history. Its been 3 piont ever since they changed it and for east side elk its been spike only ever since they changed. Actually it got worse for some spike only GMU's when they changed it to true spike only.Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out. Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw. We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....
IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.
Post by: Roperfive88 on February 08, 2013, 01:00:00 PM
The 4 point minimum targets the mature bucks that we want breeding. I say go to a 3 point only rule for 3 to 5 years. The young deer survive and the old bucks survive to do a good chunk of the breeding.Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crp 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mulies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gmu's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mulies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alot of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's I remember there was alot more of this tall brush ( not crp ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. Idk if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the merengo unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mulies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alot of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out. Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw. We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....
IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Broughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alot of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.
Post by: skywalker253 on February 08, 2013, 04:59:22 PM
Youth don't get to shoot any buck. The 3 point minimum still applies to them for as long as I have been hunting. For the 4 pt. minimum I know places in Oregon that have gone to that and all that you see any more is big three points. For alto of people it is just about getting a deer The only way you can really help the population is to stop hunting, which would suck, or set the mule deer hunting on special permit and have quotes on how may bucks are killed each year.Well said Bluebulls . It's just shocking to me how smart those older whitetails can get in that area. Dad and I got late tag last fall and were in there for 7 days during the rut. Found an old boy with stickers and sh*t all over bed down in the same patch of crap 2 mornings in a row, Busted us both mornings from 80 yards away and just ran on a dead bolt, hunkered in so deep in that stuff impossible to spot. As far as the mu lies, I've only seen 1 TRUE giant. We were driving back down into Dayton one evening( i think it was 2001) about a mile or two from town we look to our left and 100 yards there he stands. Thought it was a huge piece of brush but then he lifted his head. No doubt in my mind he had at least 7 or 8 a side, 28-32 wide, 180-200" range. Thanks to my old man we are fortunate enough to hunt big chunks of private property in these lower gum's, but even so I can't think of more than 4 or 5 mu lies I've seen since that would even go 130. It's weird too because if you've watched carefully over the years, alto of the natural country down low has seemed to change quite a bit. In the late 90's to early 00's I remember there was alto more of this tall brush ( not crap ). This crap was everywhere, some of it tall as a man , 3-6 feet high. Don't know exactly what kind of stuff it was as I was still pretty young. It's all gone now. ID if it comes and goes in cycles or what but its not like some farmer came and plowed it over, it just cycled through I guess. My dad has told me stories about his friends that pulled a few hogs from the Merino unit in the mid 90's. So I do believe there were trophy mu lies at 1 point but, that's when they actually had decent cover and a chance to mature. Moral of the story is we as outdoorsman need to appreciate what we have. Its really amazing how things change. You got us humans doing what we do combined with the climate, predators, disease etc, all stirred up in a pot. Natural and unnatural all whipped up by mother natures fury. We should all be thankful for the great hunting, fishing, etc that we are still able to enjoy because I worry that alto of it will be gone for our future generations. The good old days are right now I believe. I've seen enough drunk arse, littering, disrespectful piles of crap out in the woods for 10 lifetimes(you know who you are). I do believe most people are good, but its time we all collectively join up and weed these guys out. Have some sack and step up for whats right. ya know?! Knuckle sandwich right to the face, or maybe a left right elbow to the jaw. We all need to do our part to conserve our beautiful State. Rise up and be free! By the way this ramble I just went on felt wonderful. That is all....
IMO- The land has not changed much in the lower areas. Maybe a few fields, which were purchased or leased by Bro ughton Land & Cattle Company; now being farmed. I think it comes down to alto of hunters killing the deer off in the open areas, and them not getting a chance to mature. I also think the astronomical amounts of doe permits and youths shooting any buck for years have not helped keep the deer numbers up; thus more bucks given a chance at life. The game department should just make it 4 point or better for 3-5 years to see if things get any better.
I know that youths cannot shoot "Any Buck" anymore. During the late 90's thru mid 2000's they could in Marengo GMU 163. I cannot remember if they could in Dayton GMU 162. They eventually changed it to "Any Whitetail Doe". Then they completely eliminated everything for youths during the general season and forced them to shoot a 3 point or draw a special doe or buck permit. As I posted earlier; I was told by the game department biologist (Pat Fowler/now retired) that the reason they discontinued youths being able to shoot "Any Buck" or "Any Whitetail Doe", was because the parents were doing the shooting and taking advantage of the system. The only general season special considerations that I know of now, are that 65 and older can shoot "Any Whitetail Doe" in GMU 162 during the modern general season. They cannot in GMU 163.
During that time period, we had several youths within our deer camp that shot nice 2 points and Does. They were checked by the game department every year with no issue.
Post by: borntoslay on February 09, 2013, 01:59:30 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on February 10, 2013, 01:58:17 AM
Yes I'm glad they got rid of that youth any buck permit. I actually drew it the last year they offered it and shot a spike muley. I'd just like to see more mulies around, I'm lucky enough to hunt blc land and still can hardly find them. I kind of like Roper588s idea of special permit only for mulies. Idk, intresting stuff for those of us trompin around in the blues...
Years ago their was no "youth buck permit". Youths 16 and under could shoot "any buck". When they did finally create a youth "any buck" permit it was better. Now they got rid of it, but they created the late Blue Mtn East and West tags for all ages. I guess it is all just trade off's. I agree with you; create a Mulie permit only draw. Kill white tails only. I would just like to see something new happen in the area. I have been counting down the seasons, as I think hunting in GMU 162/163 is coming to an end. With all the hunt clubs, windmills, and leased land to outfitters; I think it will probably become a pay to hunt area and won't be worth it to shoot an average deer. I was over there all last week scouting around. Spoke with a couple of land owners who wanted $1500 to hunt. No thanks...
Post by: csaaphill on February 10, 2013, 03:27:21 AM
but ya I seen severel spikes and 2pts this year.
i think a open general season like they used to have would help a bit, but as long as they keep to the times table. Yes i'ts been well over 20 years now. :bash:
Post by: Roperfive88 on February 12, 2013, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: csaaphill link=topic=116342.[list
[li][/li]Opening it up to any buck is a bad idea :bash:. The small twos and spikes are ok, those are future mature bucks, its the mature 2pts and 3pts that are a problem. The little bucks would all get shot. There is a reason you see little twos and spikes they are young and not smart enough to hide out yet. An any buck general season would be the end of the herd.
[li][/li]
[/list]
msg1556918#msg1556918 date=1360495641]
i like that one on the outer left small 3 point it looks like.
but ya I seen severel spikes and 2pts this year.
i think a open general season like they used to have would help a bit, but as long as they keep to the times table. Yes it's been well over 20 years now. :bash:
Post by: skywalker253 on February 12, 2013, 07:57:15 PM
Quote from: csaaphill link=topic=116342.[list[li][/li]Opening it up to any buck is a bad idea :bash:. The small twos and spikes are ok, those are future mature bucks, its the mature 2pts and 3pts that are a problem. The little bucks would all get shot. There is a reason you see little twos and spikes they are young and not smart enough to hide out yet. An any buck general season would be the end of the herd.
[li][/li]
[/list]
msg1556918#msg1556918 date=1360495641]
i like that one on the outer left small 3 point it looks like.
but ya I seen severel spikes and 2pts this year.
i think a open general season like they used to have would help a bit, but as long as they keep to the times table. Yes it's been well over 20 years now. :bash:
Agreed. And that was the problem with the youth "any buck" a few years back. It was becoming the end of the herd, because parents were doing the shooting for their youth.
Post by: 270Flat on February 12, 2013, 08:24:49 PM
I have only a few years of being in the area, but they big mature deer are present. Just have to be in the right spot come hunting season. :twocents:
Post by: elkinrutdrivemenuts on February 12, 2013, 09:01:41 PM
I took a buddy out for modern deer season this year in 162. I had my archery tag so I drove and set up camp. I had seen several mature bucks early in the season and could not close the distance. So I figured I would try to get my buddy on a quality deer. I could not believe how the deer changed their behavior from ALL the extra people. There are big deer are there... They just hold up where we ain't.
I have only a few years of being in the area, but they big mature deer are present. Just have to be in the right spot come hunting season. :twocents:
That's been my experience in 175. Archery is when I see them, modern they are ghosts.
Post by: 270Flat on February 12, 2013, 09:07:41 PM
Post by: borntoslay on February 12, 2013, 11:22:37 PM
Post by: skywalker253 on February 12, 2013, 11:43:15 PM
Theres always been the east and west late whitetail permit, even when there was a youth any buck. At least as long as I remember. Maybe i understood you wrong. Also idk where you guys heard about parents shooting their kids buck, thats some weak sauce.I shot mine 200 yards straight down a ravine when i was like 12 or 13, tore the heart out and screamed.
Perhaps I am mistaken. I don't remember the east/west permit from years ago. I don't remember a lot of things from back then. I heard the stories of parents filling their kids tag from Mr. Fowler (Biologist) who is now retired. I also asked officer Vanderburg (whatever his name is?) if that was happening before he got transferred to the westside. He said it had happened a few times. Keep in mind this is probably 10 years ago, but that is what I remember.