Post by: magnanimous_j on January 24, 2013, 11:01:58 AM
Anyone have a preference? Good or bad experiences?
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 24, 2013, 11:15:27 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1640.jpg&hash=6dbfaad3816aaa990b3461912a7f23fb15d870df)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto2-1.jpg&hash=208d1ff22ec0410b6b389cfa5531fa2f6925dc58)
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 24, 2013, 12:04:51 PM
Post by: h20hunter on January 24, 2013, 12:07:22 PM
Post by: hillbilli on January 24, 2013, 12:25:58 PM
Post by: Mongo Hunter on January 24, 2013, 12:46:24 PM
PS. I like the .45 more for self defence than the 9mm, but the 9mm IS more available.
Post by: Fuzzy on January 24, 2013, 05:32:15 PM
I own both, I'm a die hard Glock guy but I purchased a XD 5.25 in .45 and the handgun is a laser. Points well, extremely accurate, grips excellent and has functioned flawlessly. I don't have a single complaint when it comes to the XD. Other than my passion for Glocks, you would be well served with either. My 21 is a SF, so it fits my hand well and has the picatinny rail.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1640.jpg&hash=6dbfaad3816aaa990b3461912a7f23fb15d870df)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto2-1.jpg&hash=208d1ff22ec0410b6b389cfa5531fa2f6925dc58)
WHAT?!?! no fixed bayonet on the Glock??
I have a gen2 glock 21 and i love it. the grip is a bit blocky but its a hell of a shooter
Post by: Bofire on January 24, 2013, 07:12:11 PM
Carl
Post by: mountainman on January 24, 2013, 07:38:15 PM
:) I was forced by deparment policy to switch from my 1911 to a glock 21 for about 7 years. (I am retired) but then we got a new chief and I could carry my 1911 again, I felt MUCH better. The 21 felt like a club, it worked, was reliable, and I hated it, MUCH slower to get on to the first round, for me, wobbled in my grip for repeat shots. I say try them both, and others, then decide, forget everyones opinion. buy the gun YOU shoot best.
Carl
:tup:
Post by: blacktailcody on January 24, 2013, 07:57:18 PM
Post by: Austrian Hunter on January 24, 2013, 08:05:35 PM
I own both, I'm a die hard Glock guy but I purchased a XD 5.25 in .45 and the handgun is a laser. Points well, extremely accurate, grips excellent and has functioned flawlessly. I don't have a single complaint when it comes to the XD. Other than my passion for Glocks, you would be well served with either. My 21 is a SF, so it fits my hand well and has the picatinny rail.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2FIMG_1640.jpg&hash=6dbfaad3816aaa990b3461912a7f23fb15d870df)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi90.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk269%2Flandonmoses%2Fphoto2-1.jpg&hash=208d1ff22ec0410b6b389cfa5531fa2f6925dc58)
I second that!!
Post by: thinkingman on January 24, 2013, 08:19:31 PM
Muscle memory is critical in a SHTF situation, and the adjustment to the Block is a penalty.
Buy the XD.
The grip safety is an added bonus.
Post by: mountainman on January 24, 2013, 08:28:47 PM
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 25, 2013, 08:02:06 AM
All the crap in the world hanging off your firearm won't make you a better shot.
Post by: JoeE on January 25, 2013, 08:05:31 AM
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 25, 2013, 08:42:46 AM
IMHO Glock, but that's mainly because of my experience shooting them, I don't have any with the XD. I think they are both fantastic firearms and either will serve you well. However if you are looking for a SHTF gun I would recommend a 9mm over a 45. 9mm is pretty much everwhere around the world were the .45 is mostly a US round. being the 9mm is so universal in a SHTF scenario the odds of "finding" more ammo is higher than the .45. just my :twocents:
Fair point, but I already have a 9mm. I try to keep at least 1000 rounds for any gun that I might be relying on in a SHTF situation. Even if I didn’t already have the 9, if I somehow live through firing off 1000 rounds of .45 (out of my sidearm no less) in combat, I’m sure there will plenty of guns lying on the ground to replenish my supply. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Which ever you decide on, spend the money you would have on the latest lazer, light, etc, buy ammo and practice.
All the crap in the world hanging off your firearm won't make you a better shot.
That’s true, but I like the idea of the flashlight. It blinds your enemy and gives you a better view of the situation. It might make the difference between getting prosecuted or not. My building is full of late 20’s – 30’s professionals and very safe. Although I’m religious about locking my doors to the point of OCD, I would hate to forget one night and have one of my neighbors come home loaded (from one of the dozens of bars in my neighborhood) and come into my apartment by mistake and get shot to death.
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 25, 2013, 09:23:11 AM
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Post by: PlateauNDN on January 25, 2013, 09:42:25 AM
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 10:39:27 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Agreed Jim..People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 10:48:13 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Wow, maybe you should go tell the majority of the Pier 1 Operators that their methods are all wrong and that you have figured out, that what they have perfected throughout the years is all wrong and they should take all the tactical lights off their carbines and handguns. LMAO!!
Hence the purpose of the "Momentary" function on weapons mounted lights. WOW!
The term "Defensive" has no relevance in my world. I have boundaries set. My handgun is not a defensive weapon at all! When those pre set lines are crossed concerning life and limb of I or loved ones and that handgun comes out. It's GO time! I and that handgun are completly offensive, I'm taking it to them. If your thinking defensive , your math is backwards.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 25, 2013, 10:52:49 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Agreed Jim..People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!
A light mounted on your gun can be a valuable asset, if used right. You point the light at your adversary and turn it on. He looks instinctively right at the light, then you turn it off. His night-vision is fried! No biggie--if he's in your house, he won't be needing it anyway. :tup:
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 10:58:05 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Agreed Jim..People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!
A light mounted on your gun can be a valuable asset, if used right. You point the light at your adversary and turn it on. He looks instinctively right at the light, then you turn it off. His night-vision is fried! No biggie--if he's in your house, he won't be needing it anyway. :tup:
:tup: :tup: :tup:
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 10:59:02 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Agreed Jim..People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!
A light mounted on your gun can be a valuable asset, if used right. You point the light at your adversary and turn it on. He looks instinctively right at the light, then you turn it off. His night-vision is fried! No biggie--if he's in your house, he won't be needing it anyway. :tup:
Agreed! But there are many "Untrained" (ie non militry, le, security) that do not know those techniques and that is who I refer to :)
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 11:04:30 AM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on January 25, 2013, 11:20:03 AM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Agreed Jim..People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!
A light mounted on your gun can be a valuable asset, if used right. You point the light at your adversary and turn it on. He looks instinctively right at the light, then you turn it off. His night-vision is fried! No biggie--if he's in your house, he won't be needing it anyway. :tup:
Agreed! But there are many "Untrained" (ie non militry, le, security) that do not know those techniques and that is who I refer to :)
The nice part about this site is the information and insight posted here. Many small tidbits that could save your life some day (or night). ;)
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 11:36:24 AM
Post by: MADMAX on January 25, 2013, 11:40:33 AM
love them both
shoot well and plenty of capacity
Post by: jaymark6655 on January 25, 2013, 11:41:51 AM
People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!:yeah: My light is seperate. Just like using a binos instead of a scope to identify your target. Can still be used to blind people. With all the operaters out there, they aren't in a defensive situation with their lights unless something is wrong, they don't have to worry about shooting a family member getting a snack and they are trained more than the average person is usually. Get one that you have a mode where you have to hold button to activate light, that way you can turn on and off quickly.
Go to a place like Wades, rent the whole .45 section and go with the one you like best. Seems like both guns are more than capable, so its going to come down to how you hold it and what operating it feels like to you. If you like them both equal after a few hundred rounds, go with price.
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 12:16:49 PM
:tup:People who whis a light mounted should think twice..in addition to the reason stated let me place a scenario for everyone..late at night you hear someting dowstairs in the kitchen area. You grab your piece with mounted light..slowly you head towards the sound. Adrenalin is pumping, trying to control nerves. ready for anything, finger snug up on trigger in anticipation...you work down a hall searching...no more sound...Suddenly the intruder is 3 steps in front of you! You line up your weapon to identify the threat in your gun mounted light..you suddenly realize, luckily before its too late you are pointing a loaded weapon and alsmost dropped the pin on your wife (kid, brother, sister, you insert here) just down getting a drink of water! Happens several times a year with not good results. Personally, there is always a Surefire with my gun when I lay my head down at night. Now military and law inforcement, thats a different thing. Odds are 99% of those bump-in-the-night situations WILL have a bad guy at the other end!:yeah: My light is seperate. Just like using a binos instead of a scope to identify your target. Can still be used to blind people. With all the operaters out there, they aren't in a defensive situation with their lights unless something is wrong, they don't have to worry about shooting a family member getting a snack and they are trained more than the average person is usually. Get one that you have a mode where you have to hold button to activate light, that way you can turn on and off quickly.
Go to a place like Wades, rent the whole .45 section and go with the one you like best. Seems like both guns are more than capable, so its going to come down to how you hold it and what operating it feels like to you. If you like them both equal after a few hundred rounds, go with price.
Post by: Fuzzy on January 25, 2013, 12:25:47 PM
A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Wow, maybe you should go tell the majority of the Pier 1 Operators that their methods are all wrong and that you have figured out, that what they have perfected throughout the years is all wrong and they should take all the tactical lights off their carbines and handguns. LMAO!!
Hence the purpose of the "Momentary" function on weapons mounted lights. WOW!
The term "Defensive" has no relevance in my world. I have boundaries set. My handgun is not a defensive weapon at all! When those pre set lines are crossed concerning life and limb of I or loved ones and that handgun comes out. It's GO time! I and that handgun are completly offensive, I'm taking it to them. If your thinking defensive , your math is backwards.
Pier 1 operators?? The ones protecting the local mall?
i also keep my surefire separate
Post by: Mongo Hunter on January 25, 2013, 12:32:55 PM
Post by: magnanimous_j on January 25, 2013, 12:39:58 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 12:43:03 PM
:chuckle:A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Wow, maybe you should go tell the majority of the Pier 1 Operators that their methods are all wrong and that you have figured out, that what they have perfected throughout the years is all wrong and they should take all the tactical lights off their carbines and handguns. LMAO!!
Hence the purpose of the "Momentary" function on weapons mounted lights. WOW!
The term "Defensive" has no relevance in my world. I have boundaries set. My handgun is not a defensive weapon at all! When those pre set lines are crossed concerning life and limb of I or loved ones and that handgun comes out. It's GO time! I and that handgun are completly offensive, I'm taking it to them. If your thinking defensive , your math is backwards.
Pier 1 operators?? The ones protecting the local mall?
i also keep my surefire separate
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 12:48:36 PM
:chuckle:A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Wow, maybe you should go tell the majority of the Pier 1 Operators that their methods are all wrong and that you have figured out, that what they have perfected throughout the years is all wrong and they should take all the tactical lights off their carbines and handguns. LMAO!!
Hence the purpose of the "Momentary" function on weapons mounted lights. WOW!
The term "Defensive" has no relevance in my world. I have boundaries set. My handgun is not a defensive weapon at all! When those pre set lines are crossed concerning life and limb of I or loved ones and that handgun comes out. It's GO time! I and that handgun are completly offensive, I'm taking it to them. If your thinking defensive , your math is backwards.
Pier 1 operators?? The ones protecting the local mall?
i also keep my surefire separate
:tree1:
Post by: Alchase on January 25, 2013, 01:26:02 PM
The best defence is a good offence, advance under fire,
LOL
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 01:41:16 PM
The term defensive weapon is an oxymoron, unless you are laying down massive volumes of lead in suppression fire to exfill out of a situation that has already gone south, LOL
The best defence is a good offence, advance under fire,
LOL
More often than not. The only way out of it, is through it. :tup:
Post by: Jim the Plumber on January 25, 2013, 02:25:39 PM
Crazy, I guess I need to find one of these "Pier 1" operators and get some insite.A light attached to a defensive firearm is a bullseye that lines up nicely with your face.
you are assuming you will have your light/ firearm pointed in the right direction when everyting goes sideways.
If the bad guy is not where you are pointing your light, the bad guy will most likely shut your light off for you.
A lazer tends to focus your attention on the lazer light instead of concentrating on the threat.
Wow, maybe you should go tell the majority of the Pier 1 Operators that their methods are all wrong and that you have figured out, that what they have perfected throughout the years is all wrong and they should take all the tactical lights off their carbines and handguns. LMAO!!
Hence the purpose of the "Momentary" function on weapons mounted lights. WOW!
The term "Defensive" has no relevance in my world. I have boundaries set. My handgun is not a defensive weapon at all! When those pre set lines are crossed concerning life and limb of I or loved ones and that handgun comes out. It's GO time! I and that handgun are completly offensive, I'm taking it to them. If your thinking defensive , your math is backwards.
Heading to Pier 1 now..
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 02:35:01 PM
Post by: Fuzzy on January 25, 2013, 02:36:26 PM
Post by: mountainman on January 25, 2013, 02:41:19 PM
Post by: Fuzzy on January 25, 2013, 03:01:56 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 03:12:40 PM
Replace the "P" with a "T" and drive on. :tup:
Post by: Fuzzy on January 25, 2013, 03:18:14 PM
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 03:20:12 PM
Oh ya! Typo i see thanks for the correction
Your welcome Fuzz!
Post by: thinkingman on January 25, 2013, 05:18:36 PM
Gotta love watching guys play with a "Typo". Reminds me of watching a couple monkeys try to screw a football.You should be thanking me for the 3rd grade math lesson on the little 'typo' involving that pesky decimal point.
Replace the "P" with a "T" and drive on. :tup:
If you ever get into reloading, those pesky typos mean fingers and eyeballs.
Yer welcome.
Post by: Biggerhammer on January 25, 2013, 05:46:53 PM
Gotta love watching guys play with a "Typo". Reminds me of watching a couple monkeys try to screw a football.You should be thanking me for the 3rd grade math lesson on the little 'typo' involving that pesky decimal point.
Replace the "P" with a "T" and drive on. :tup:
If you ever get into reloading, those pesky typos mean fingers and eyeballs.
Yer welcome.
I still have all my digits and eyeballs. I could give you a few lessons when it comes to reloading. ;)