Post by: pd on January 30, 2013, 03:35:46 PM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1588.pdf (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2013-14/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1588.pdf)
I know that many reasonable people (including a lot of members on this site) will find this bill to be acceptable or at least palatable. The portion of the bill that would require private gun sales to be proceeded by a background check (conducted by the local police chief or sheriff)--or face a gross misdemeanor charge--might well garner support from the majority of citizens. My only question is this: Does preventing private gun sales (without a background check) really solve anything? What do you think?
Post by: netcoyote on January 30, 2013, 03:44:12 PM
Post by: Bigshooter on January 30, 2013, 04:01:22 PM
Post by: gaddy on January 30, 2013, 04:03:20 PM
Post by: washelkhunter on January 30, 2013, 04:07:29 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 04:07:47 PM
What is scary is that I really believe a large part of the country is dumb enough to fall for this... and will actually fall for the "reasonble" political speak.
People's lack of smarts, I find myself always underestimating.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:
Post by: huntnphool on January 30, 2013, 04:08:56 PM
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 04:14:35 PM
I wonder if they had worded this different if people would so easily been fooled?
How about if they just come out and said, "we are going to put every gun owner on a list and know excatly what you have?"
Do you think people would have fallen for the "reasonable" political speak?
I really hate having to protect stupid people and I really feel sorry for all my brother's and sister.... in the brotherhood.
Post by: bigtex on January 30, 2013, 04:17:46 PM
It's non of the governments bizness what transpires between its citizens.
Like when you sell a car/boat?....
Post by: JLS on January 30, 2013, 04:19:13 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 04:19:53 PM
It doesn't solve a thing. When criminals start obeying laws then laws like this will make a difference.Criminals dont hurt people with theyre own legal weapons.
They steal them from the people that follow every rule in the book and get every required license. Makes no difference to criminals what you do law wise. Just makes for easier targets. Criminals will be more liable to rob you knowing your not packing then if you had a gun holstered on your hip, They would more then likely walk away from the situation and find some other law abiding citizen to hurt that they know is defenseless.
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 04:23:34 PM
It's non of the governments bizness what transpires between its citizens.
Like when you sell a car/boat?....
There is not an entire politcal (fasist) party that is out to take your cars like they are out go get rid of guns... just yet.... even though they do want to control what you drive... Agenda 21 shows you that they want to get rid of capitalism all together, so maybe I'm speaking too fast.
However, I do get your point.... the government is using our tax codes to control us already. Like rats born in a cage, many "think" they are truely free. Reminds me of the "The Truman Show" somewhat.
However, for anyone on the side of the second Amendment and freedom to negotiate with a party that obviously would get rid of guns tomorrow if they had the votes, well, those stupid people deserve what they get... but for the rest of us, we don't deserve what they are so ignorantly serving up.
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 04:27:42 PM
It's non of the governments bizness what transpires between its citizens.
Like when you sell a car/boat?....
There is not an entire politcal (fasist) party that is out to take your cars like they are out go get rid of guns... just yet.... even though they do want to control what you drive... Agenda 21 shows you that they want to get rid of capitalism all together, so maybe I'm speaking too fast.
However, I do get your point.... the government is using our tax codes to control us already. Like rats born in a cage, many "think" they are truely free. Reminds me of the "The Truman Show" somewhat.
However, for anyone on the side of the second Amendment and freedom to negotiate with a party that obviously would get rid of guns tomorrow if they had the votes, well, those stupid people deserve what they get... but for the rest of us, we don't deserve what they are so ignorantly serving up.
Hmm, well said. I do agree.
But then again it seems like there's only so much people can do. You gotta just kinda ride the waves sometimes. Wether you choose to do so or not is up to you. "not you personally".
Its one of those damned if you damned if you don't kind of situations it seems like to me.
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 04:29:10 PM
Smart people turn the converstation away from guns and the second Amendment all together. We focus on the real issue and that is our mental health programs and our declining morality in America.
All this talk about guns alone is weaking our case because it keeps the focus on guns. In other words, people are doing exactly what the left their powerful facist media is commanding them to do.
:twocents:
Post by: JLS on January 30, 2013, 04:48:53 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 04:55:24 PM
How is a background check for private sales an erosion of 2nd amendment rights?From what Im understanding....
Your basicly needing MORE permission for something you already have the right to do..?
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 05:09:28 PM
How is a background check for private sales an erosion of 2nd amendment rights?
If you can't answer this yourself, please don't vote anymore or talk until you study, a lot.
If you have to ask permission, it is no longer a right. It is then granted from the government.
The 2nd Amendent doesn't give us a right to bear arms. It puts that God given right in writing so it will not be infringed/chipped away at.
Once they can control who can have one, then it is only a small step to start changing the rules as to "who can have one."
How about small infractions? How about going to see a physiatrist when you were 18, 20, 25?
How many thousands of reasons can you think of for not allowing you to have that "right"? For every one you and I can think of, trust me, politicians can think of many, many more.
Heck, they are already attacking people on the right as being terrorist. Just think what they can do with that information.
I really shouldn't have to tell this to someone in America. People should already know this stuff... but yet here we are, throwing away our freedoms by being tricked and stupid.
Post by: JLS on January 30, 2013, 05:12:46 PM
Have a blessed day.
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on January 30, 2013, 05:16:00 PM
I just love your snarky and condescending attitude. I've already told you in previous threads I'll never be as smart as you. Sometimes I wonder how I got anywhere in life without you guiding me.
Have a blessed day.
Glad you picked that up... as you can tell, i'm done with stupid people.
You are going to get a lot of people killed.
Obviously I'm not trying to talk you into something. Talking one dumb person in the world into common sense isn't going to change a thing at this point. I'm taking my frustrations out on the stupid people. They walk among us and dont' even know they are stupid, but they/you are quit dangerous.
Post by: JLS on January 30, 2013, 05:38:08 PM
How is a background check for private sales an erosion of 2nd amendment rights?From what Im understanding....
Your basicly needing MORE permission for something you already have the right to do..?
Smossy,
I see your point, but how an NICS check has been required for how many years to purchase a new firearm? I fail to see how it's okay for a new purchase but not a private party.
I would love to see ATF vigorously prosecute all of the attempted firearms purchases that are denied during NICS checks on new firearms. As I said before, I think it is largely a feel good measure, but I don't see it as a bad thing.
I'm now off to vote 8)
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 05:39:54 PM
Hey I know NOTHING about the topic. I was just stating what I understood from what the other guy said. Not taking sides buddy! lolHow is a background check for private sales an erosion of 2nd amendment rights?From what Im understanding....
Your basicly needing MORE permission for something you already have the right to do..?
Smossy,
I see your point, but how an NICS check has been required for how many years to purchase a new firearm? I fail to see how it's okay for a new purchase but not a private party.
I would love to see ATF vigorously prosecute all of the attempted firearms purchases that are denied during NICS checks on new firearms. As I said before, I think it is largely a feel good measure, but I don't see it as a bad thing.
I'm now off to vote 8)
Post by: JimmyHoffa on January 30, 2013, 05:46:06 PM
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 05:46:40 PM
Free people have rights. Slaves have privelages. The ENTIRE system is rotten. Stop supporting these crooks and their system if you really want things to change.Doesnt matter who supports them really.
They will do whatever they want unfortunetly.
Post by: KFhunter on January 30, 2013, 05:47:40 PM
In order to facilitate that, a national ID will need to be invented.
I'll let you fine folks discuss that ahwile.
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 05:49:26 PM
I watched some of the Senate hearings today, another big effort is underway to require a back ground check to purchase ammunition as well.
In order to facilitate that, a national ID will need to be invented.
I'll let you fine folks discuss that ahwile.
They have one, Its called social security #
Post by: CementFinisher on January 30, 2013, 05:51:50 PM
Post by: KFhunter on January 30, 2013, 05:52:44 PM
I just love your snarky and condescending attitude. I've already told you in previous threads I'll never be as smart as you. Sometimes I wonder how I got anywhere in life without you guiding me.
Have a blessed day.
Glad you picked that up... as you can tell, i'm done with stupid people.
You are going to get a lot of people killed.
Obviously I'm not trying to talk you into something. Talking one dumb person in the world into common sense isn't going to change a thing at this point. I'm taking my frustrations out on the stupid people. They walk among us and dont' even know they are stupid, but they/you are quit dangerous.
Don't berate, educate.
You are talking to fellow hunters who support the 2A and hunting rights. If you cannot make a decent conversation in this 4M -with mostly like minded people-how will you ever educate a non-hunter? Language like you've displayed here damages your cause.
I do hope you refrain from future conversations about 2A rights and let cooler heads do the talking for you.
:twocents:
Post by: KFhunter on January 30, 2013, 05:58:52 PM
I watched some of the Senate hearings today, another big effort is underway to require a back ground check to purchase ammunition as well.
In order to facilitate that, a national ID will need to be invented.
I'll let you fine folks discuss that ahwile.
They have one, Its called social security #
read
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/list/c/16,30 (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/list/c/16,30)
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 06:00:12 PM
Oh jeez. Touche.I watched some of the Senate hearings today, another big effort is underway to require a back ground check to purchase ammunition as well.
In order to facilitate that, a national ID will need to be invented.
I'll let you fine folks discuss that ahwile.
They have one, Its called social security #
read
http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/list/c/16,30 (http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/list/c/16,30)
Post by: buckfvr on January 30, 2013, 06:06:58 PM
Look beyond the smoke screen of gun violence and see the way too big government that is desperate to disarm you/us. I cant see it any other way.
:twocents:
Post by: Smossy on January 30, 2013, 06:17:07 PM
This is purely, plainly, and simply the disarming of the American public.........for reasons to be determined in the near future. Then it will be too late.The smoke screen of gun violence is very very thin.
Look beyond the smoke screen of gun violence and see the way too big government that is desperate to disarm you/us. I cant see it any other way.
:twocents:
Everyone knows all the shootings recently are a ploy to get weapons banned or more controlled in some way. Then there was 5 more school shootings in the following weeks of the Sandy Hook stuff. What does ANYONE have to benefit by hurting abunch of kids. Nothing, Just more confirmation to get what they want. I call them Government Pawns.
Post by: csaaphill on January 30, 2013, 10:48:08 PM
How is a background check for private sales an erosion of 2nd amendment rights?It infringes on it as in you can't do this without us knowing about it. and infringment is any law against an unfettered principle. Just like forced registrtaion is an infringement.
When you have a right you don't have to ask permision you can just do it without anyone knowing or caring why.
It's like now I can't sell to you even though were not friearms dealers without me giving you a background check if this thing passes. No more being able to sell at garage sales yard sales etc.. no more making an ad well: you can still make th add just now you have to do paper work. I think ill fight this regardless who likes this on here.
Post by: csaaphill on January 30, 2013, 10:58:02 PM
i giess to it take a grey market area and turns into a Black market now :bash:
and ill speak my mind on this 666 here we come :sry: :twocents:
Post by: csaaphill on January 30, 2013, 11:06:13 PM
drew.hansen@leg.wa.gov; jay.rodne@leg.wa.gov; steve.o'ban@leg.wa.gov; roger.goodman@leg.wa.gov; mike.hope@leg.wa.gov; laurie.jinkins@leg.wa.gov; steve.kirby@leg.wa.gov; brad.klippert@leg.wa.gov; terry.nealey@leg.wa.gov; tina.orwall@leg.wa.gov; maryhelen.roberts@leg.wa.gov; matt.shea@leg.wa.gov; david.taylor@leg.wa.gov; jason.overstreet@leg.wa.gov; shelly.short@leg.wa.gov; liz.pike@leg.wa.gov; elizabeth.scott@leg.wa.gov; joe.schmick@leg.wa.gov; larry.crouse@leg.wa.gov; cary.condotta@leg.wa.gov; dan.kristiansen@leg.wa.gov
just copy the whole list and email them all at once easy.
Post by: TangoU on January 31, 2013, 12:02:40 AM
I just love your snarky and condescending attitude. I've already told you in previous threads I'll never be as smart as you. Sometimes I wonder how I got anywhere in life without you guiding me.
Have a blessed day.
Glad you picked that up... as you can tell, i'm done with stupid people.
You are going to get a lot of people killed.
Obviously I'm not trying to talk you into something. Talking one dumb person in the world into common sense isn't going to change a thing at this point. I'm taking my frustrations out on the stupid people. They walk among us and dont' even know they are stupid, but they/you are quit dangerous.
My friend, I find it ironic in your posts berating the intelligence of others that, in every single one of those same posts, you fail to spell correctly.
How can we as gun owners defeat those that want to take our guns away if we cannot even close ranks ourselves and treat each other with civility?
Post by: CP on January 31, 2013, 07:15:25 AM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1588&year=2013 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=1588&year=2013)
Post by: csaaphill on January 31, 2013, 11:38:46 PM
although I'm thinking they don't realize this is a Washington state bill but may be wrong.
Thank you for your email expressing your support for a 2nd Amendment rights. Taking into account recent national tragedies, gun control is an issue that is in the spotlight this session.
Please be assured that we both care deeply about the safety of our neighbors, which is why I have cosponsored House Bill 1371. HB 1371 establishes the Washington state firearms freedom act of 2013. The bill has not yet been scheduled for a public hearing.
Again thank you for your email supporting this bill. If you require further assistance please feel free to contact my office.
Thanks for sharing your concern about our Second Amendment rights. Rep. Shea is strongly opposed to HB 1588.
That's why Rep. Shea co-sponsored HB 1371, The Firearms Freedom Act, as part of the Freedom Agenda (see "Freedom Agenda WA" on Facebook).
One major component of the Freedom Agenda is the Washington Firearms Freedom Act. This bill, if enacted, will exempt all firearms manufactured in WA State from federal regulation and deal with anticipated new federal regulations, as well. The Washington bill will even be more robust than the much touted Wyoming bill. The history of our bill in previous sessions has been to exempt firearms manufactured in Washington that stays in Washington.
But it also, in Section 5(4) nullifies any federal law adopted after January 1, 2013 that bans or attempts registration of firearms. And finally, Section 12(4) specifically prevents any restrictions placed upon law-abiding citizens in a state of emergency. Those of us who remember the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina recall the door-to-door confiscation of firearms and the sometimes disastrous results.
The bill number is House Bill 1371 and can be accessed on your personal computer here.
Rep Shea is aware that there could be a slew of gun control bills coming and he is prepared to argue against them on the floor of the House. He is depending upon the informed citizenry, however, to let the body of the Legislature know how they feel about gun control and, hopefully, be available to testify at committee hearings. It was just a couple weeks ago that a Democrat legislator withdrew a gun control bill after receiving a blizzard of messages of objection from concerned citizens
Post by: Fl0und3rz on January 31, 2013, 11:49:20 PM
Solving a problem was never any part of the current hysteria. Taking advantage of a tragedy to advance an ideological agenda is what this madness is about and was planned for years in advance.
This. Baby steps, people. Liberties are rarely given up all at once. Instead, they chip away at the edges, using tragedies and lies to convince people that, "hey, it's not so bad." In reality, universal background checks is just one step closer to registration, which is one step closer to confiscation.
All the while, this will have little effect on reducing crime such as straw purchases, keeping prohibited persons from obtaining firearms, or preventing another mass-murder. But then, anyone with their critical thinking abilities intact knows all this.
It's about control, not about crime prevention or saving lives.
Post by: lokidog on February 01, 2013, 12:23:45 AM
replys I got
although I'm thinking they don't realize this is a Washington state bill but may be wrong.
Thank you for your email expressing your support for a 2nd Amendment rights. Taking into account recent national tragedies, gun control is an issue that is in the spotlight this session.
Please be assured that we both care deeply about the safety of our neighbors, which is why I have cosponsored House Bill 1371. HB 1371 establishes the Washington state firearms freedom act of 2013. The bill has not yet been scheduled for a public hearing.
Again thank you for your email supporting this bill. If you require further assistance please feel free to contact my office.
Thanks for sharing your concern about our Second Amendment rights. Rep. Shea is strongly opposed to HB 1588.
That's why Rep. Shea co-sponsored HB 1371, The Firearms Freedom Act, as part of the Freedom Agenda (see "Freedom Agenda WA" on Facebook).
One major component of the Freedom Agenda is the Washington Firearms Freedom Act. This bill, if enacted, will exempt all firearms manufactured in WA State from federal regulation and deal with anticipated new federal regulations, as well. The Washington bill will even be more robust than the much touted Wyoming bill. The history of our bill in previous sessions has been to exempt firearms manufactured in Washington that stays in Washington.
But it also, in Section 5(4) nullifies any federal law adopted after January 1, 2013 that bans or attempts registration of firearms. And finally, Section 12(4) specifically prevents any restrictions placed upon law-abiding citizens in a state of emergency. Those of us who remember the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina recall the door-to-door confiscation of firearms and the sometimes disastrous results.
The bill number is House Bill 1371 and can be accessed on your personal computer here.
Rep Shea is aware that there could be a slew of gun control bills coming and he is prepared to argue against them on the floor of the House. He is depending upon the informed citizenry, however, to let the body of the Legislature know how they feel about gun control and, hopefully, be available to testify at committee hearings. It was just a couple weeks ago that a Democrat legislator withdrew a gun control bill after receiving a blizzard of messages of objection from concerned citizens
It looks like yours are on the same page as you are to me. :dunno: I'm sure mine with the big D by their names are not. I started another thread after I looked for HB1588 and couldn't find any threads. Here is what I sent to my D'bag politicians, feel free to use it with yours or alter as necessary:
This bill is just one more step toward firearm confiscation by state and federal governments. I would have no problems with having all people go through a background check to purchase a firearm from a store or private individual. However, statistics show that most shooters (law breakers) in these mass shootings that seem to be the big concern and impetus for change have acquired their guns from illegal sources (they either stole them or bought them from someone who stole them). If the records of law-abiding firearm purchaser were, actually, destroyed after being approved, I would not have as many concerns. History has shown that those who voluntarily inform the government that they posess firearms, are the first to be disarmed when the government decides that the people are not qualified to posess them. If you think that this could only happen in Nazi Germany, guess again, it has happened in our own country! Law-abiding citizens of New Orleans were forced to give up their firearms, the only means of protection against roving bands of thieves and murderers, when the government decided that the 2nd Amendment didn't matter after hurricane Katrina. This confiscation, by the way, has been determined to have been illegal by the US Court system.
If making sure that those who purchase firearms are not prohibited, why is it that someone, who has a State of Washington Conscealed Carry Permit, still would have to go through a background check? These people, myself included, have already gone through a background check which includes fingerprinting (which current background checks do not even require) and have been deemed, by the State, to be safe to carry/posess a firearm in a concealed manner wherever it is currently legal to do so. The answer is so that the Government knows who has purchased and posesses firearms so that they may be the first ones approached in order to confiscate those firearms!
Thank you for your time and attention, please read this and respond with something other than a canned "I oppose gun violence" email as I also oppose gun violence but do not feel that this is the answer. The answer lies in enforcing the myriad of current gun laws and following up with appropriate penalties when they are broken, not by making a list of law-abiding citizens that believe the second amendment, and all of the others, are immutable.