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Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: brush hunter on August 05, 2007, 10:03:12 AM


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Title: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: brush hunter on August 05, 2007, 10:03:12 AM
I think they do a poor job at management, but a great job at rakeing in tons of cash.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 05, 2007, 10:17:49 AM
They could do better.  But it is hard to manage wildlife in this state when the WDFW has its hands tied by initiatives that the *censored* voters of this state make into law (ie - banning hounds, no baiting for bears, no trapping). 

And it seems that they manage by public opinion a lot of the time.  Why do they even have biologists when the management ignores the bio's recommendations?  For instance, the elk that hang out by the St. Helen's observatory should have thinned-out a few years ago, but they weren't because they did not want to offend the tourist that were there viewing the volcano.  (So WDFW deserves some blame for the starving elk there; instead of avoiding the heat from the public that might be offended by witnessing elk being shot, they should manage by what is right.)

Another example is over the counter tags.  Most of Eastern Washington GMU's probably should be 'draw only' for mule deer instead of OTC tags because of the open country and ease of spotting and killing a deer.  But because of the pressure that hunters put on the WDFW, they will not make it permit only.  How can they be expected to manage the herds when it is OTC tag?   And I think it is only OTC because of the amount of pressure hunters put on the department to keep it that way.  So, how can we blame the WDFW when the hunters "force" it to be OTC?

But on the other hand, how can they be expected to manage anything when the herds get wiped-out anyway by the native americans?

So, the bottom line is..........I think they are doing okay given 1) the huge population of people in this state, 2) stupid initiatives that get passed by *censored* citizens that shouldn't even have the right to decide game laws, 3) Indians that slaughter the herds.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: finnman on August 13, 2007, 03:57:53 PM
Curly is on target!
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: littletoes on August 17, 2007, 08:49:54 AM
Mixed feelings here too.
I don't think they are actually trying to "rape" us, but its hard to overcome the beuacracy.

We have the entire population to make "happy" here. When ever a law is passed, it gets voted on by the entire public, not just the Hunting public, so who loses?
You pose some law to this little 'Ol Lady, or some heavy liberal that sits in their house, or office with the air conditioning on...."ooohh, see the prety deer!"....they don't think like most hunters do, and they HATE to think of us chasing those poor animals with either hounds or guns...

For Example; When I see a nice buck hit on the side of a road....I can't help but thinks "What a waste, should be hanging on some wall"( I can just imagine what some liberal would have thought of THAT way of thinking (Sick! sick, sick, sick-"poor deer")).

And I've also met a couple of the top folks in the WDFW. Nice managers (Key work; MANAGERS!), thats right managers, NOT HUNTERS! Sure they can move people and products around, but they don't live for the hunt. They don't seem to understand us.

Kinda like Game Wardens to me....how can they understand us if they themselves don't enjoy hunting? Must not if they work during Hunting Season all thier life! And all they can think about is how things look to the General Public (NOT HUNTERS!). We look at things differantly.

This was all brought to my attention when a Warden wanted to bust this young kid 'cause he got blood on the back of his truck while loading up his deer. Yeah, his truck was white, and maybe the tail-gate wouldn't open, so he got some big streaks of blood on the back, and on one side. Warden said that would look terrible to the Public!
Screw the Public! What the hell do they think when they eat a Hamburger!???! SOMEBODY had to kill that cow. Those folks need to get back in touch with what they are. "WE" eat meat, and to do so "WE" kill animals.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: littletoes on August 17, 2007, 09:01:24 AM
I guess if "THEY" don't kill the cow for the purse, leather coat, shoes, or Hamburger, they can sleep at night with a clear conscience.......

what a state our Country is coming too. Why don't we just hug everybudy? sheesh. (that last statement was meant with total sarcasm, for those that missed it)
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: arrowflinger on August 17, 2007, 10:35:09 AM
What about the  people that think having deer as pets, Love the deer in their yards, but as soon as they eat the rose buds, or tops off the newly planted trees.............they want the State to pay for the damages. What about the landowners that won't let hunters come in and manage a herd of animals................then want money for their loss. Remember, we all might not be bad sportsmen, but the ones that are, give us a bad name. We as sportsmen need to teach our new generation of hunters the ethics of hunting and one day They will have a future of making the right choices.......be it life or politics.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: HuntinCrazy on August 17, 2007, 08:37:53 PM
All you guys are so right about all these so called Leaders of the WDFW. Just read  http://wdfw.wa.gov/wildlife.htm    , Almost word for word concerning the ELK HERD MANAGEMENT . There was supposed to be a 3 year "study" back in the 90's to see which plan ( shooting SPIKES on the East side and leave the larger elk to be DRAWN for) This study has lasted for 15 years now.(more revenue for the WDFW). But the West side elk hunters, leave the Spike elk to grow up to become mature animals .

Per Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation,Elk heads numbers for Washington State;


                           1975 - 2000  ----     Roosevelt Elk 35,000       

                          1975-2000----      Rocky Mountain Elk 23,000   

Colorado has awesome Elk herds. Numbering 292,580

Maybe we should look at how these states manage their elk herds. Hire them to come here and fix our problem. Maybe we should all ban  together and BOYCOTT buying hunting/fishing licenses /tags ,buying any and all hunting and fishing products . Then let them scramble. What would happen to the great economy??? With out people like US this state would crumble. With out people like US this nation would crumble.

Other that my venting.........LOL  I think this is an awesome site where  we can all have our say and learn and meet some new people and /or future hunting partners.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 17, 2007, 08:57:43 PM
Per Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation,Elk heads numbers for Washington State;


                           1975 - 2000  ----     Roosevelt Elk 35,000      

                          1975-2000----      Rocky Mountain Elk 23,000

Can you please clarify this? I don't understand what these numbers represent.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 06:34:58 AM
Bob, what needs clarifying.............they are numbers of elk.

http://members.cox.net/big_river_chapter-ri_rmef/ElkPopulationsUS2000.pdf

HuntinCrazy, Colorado has a lot more habitat to sustain the high number of elk herds that they have.  The elk habitat in Washington is limited and the numbers of elk are probably about right for the habitat.  It really isn't a fair comparison to compare the numbers of elk in CO to the #'s in WA and say that the WDFW sucks because the elk numbers are too low..........it all has to do with the amount of food available for the elk.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 06:58:57 AM
Votes for the WDFW or things that I see really aren't helpful to them....

1.Feds and their treaties with the indians that have their hands tied.
2. Funds going to the general fund from license sales etc, instead of going into the wildlife fund.  This may have changed recently, but unclear on that.
3.Again, the feds in regards to wolf management etc.
4. Liberal groups/*censored* voters that voted out hound hunting and trapping.
5. Funds for enforcement.  Again because we are not supporting them, its coming from the governor.

Now I voted against the WDFW, but in reality its a personal bias as I don't think wildlife is managed real well in this state.  So much money is spent on study, yet typical of government crap, nothing good comes out of it.  How do I put it to words.  Seasons and bag limits don't react to current situations.  Trophy areas are on ceded lands.  I don't know, I'm sure there is a list.  For some reason I think the WDFW should be in charge of managing wildlife.  How in the hell did trapping and hound hunting come up for a public vote.  Why should thousands of people who in reality wouldn't know the difference in a Martin and a mink, etc. be allowed to decide the fate.  Obvious, I'm also upset because they don't run their operation like a business. in regards to tag drawings etc.  Huntin Crazy, I would also have to agree with Curly, you can't compare Washington to Colorado in regards to elk.  If there was one success story from Washington other than Turkeys, I think they have done a pretty good job with the elk herds.  I disagree with some of their hunts, but in the big scheme of things.  By the way, the spike only season has improved the herd dramatically.  I couldn't tell if you were trying to say it was a bad thing. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: HuntinCrazy on August 18, 2007, 07:27:08 AM
Curly... I agree with you about Colorado's habitat. I guess the point I was trying to make is WA should look at how these other states manage their elk herds. From 1975 to 2000 Oregon's elk has risen every year. Totaling over 120,000. We have 58,000.  They can't tell us if their "plan" to see which hunting method has worked. Shoot big bulls or shoot spikes. It just pisses me off that our commission in the WDFW continue to change the regs to make more money. ELK = $$$  for the state

Some of my back ground; I served on the Washington State Sports Council. Pierce County Sports Council. Served on the Board of Directors with the Tacoma Sportsmen's Club for 16 years . Past President of TSC 2000-2002.

 As you can see I do get very involved in habitat and conservation of our natural resources . Its up to us, the general public to challenge those who exploit it for selfish gain.

Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 07:30:42 AM
Quote
They can't tell us if their "plan" to see which hunting method has worked. Shoot big bulls or shoot spikes. It just pisses me off that our commission in the WDFW continue to change the regs to make more money. ELK = $$$  for the state

That I will buy.  It goes to kind of what I was saying as there is no clear reason why they decide to do what they do.  Its on the whimsey of whomever is in charge at the moment. again....typical government crap.  I used to see it all the time with the forest service, and whoever was the ranger at the time.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2007, 08:27:05 AM

Per Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation,Elk heads numbers for Washington State;


                           1975 - 2000  ----     Roosevelt Elk 35,000      

                          1975-2000----      Rocky Mountain Elk 23,000  


Maybe I'm stupid but I'm still not understanding what this means. Are these the population estimates for the year 2000, or 1975? Or something else?
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 08:30:10 AM
Looks like an extremely vague statistic, meaning that during that period there was an average of that many elk.  Kind of hard to track a trend analysis with 25 year increments.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2007, 08:31:58 AM
Now about the spike only thing...the reason they have a spike only season on the eastside and 3 point minimum on the westside, was that the WDFW biologists wanted spike only statewide, and it was that way one year, then hunters complained too much and got them to change it to a 3 point minimum on the westside. In my opinion, they listen to what the general public wants too much. The WDFW has biologists on staff in order to make the right decisions in how to manage our big game, yet they listen to us and other residents of the state who know nothing about wildlife management.  :bash:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 08:33:29 AM
Bob, from the link I posted above for you (which you must not have looked at) the RMEF has listed the population of elk in WA for 1975, 1980, 1985, 1990, 1995, and 2000 at the following numbers for each of those years:

Rocky Mountain - 23,000     24,000   24,000    24,900     30,700      23,000
Roosevelt   -       35,000     31,000   31,000    30,000     31,500      35,000
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 08:36:12 AM
Thanks Curly....That link was blocked for me.  I am playing while at work. Imagine that.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2007, 08:47:28 AM
Thanks. So it's the estimate for the year 2000.  OK. What confused me was the "1975-2000."

HuntinCrazy, have you read the elk herd management plans? If not, you might find them interesting. Here's the Yakima plan for starters:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/elk/yakima.htm



Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 18, 2007, 08:53:45 AM
Can someone explain to me the science behind killing yearling bulls I still haven't heard the reasoning for it?  If we let the spikes grow up wouldn't there be 5x the mature bulls in 5 years???  I think the way that eastern WA is managed for elk is crap.  
I have had too many personal experiences ALL negative with the WDFW to say that they are doing a good job.  On top of that I would bet that we could replace all of the bios in the state with from people off this board and things would improve.  I talk to a bio every year near my family's farm and he asks us how many elk are in the area and leaves.............he never counts on his own....ever.  Tell me how taking someones word for it is a good idea????  We could tell him there were 3x the number there really are and he would nod and smile and leave :dunno:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2007, 09:11:50 AM
Not sure if this will answer your question, but this is from the Yakima Elk Herd Management Plan:

Quote
In 1994, the harvest strategy was changed to spike-only bull hunting during the general season, with branched antlered bull hunting by permit only. The objective was to increase post-season bull:cow ratios and increase the numbers of older adult bulls in the herd. The theory was that an increase in the numbers of older bulls would equate to earlier, more effective breeding, shorter rutting seasons, and better herd health (Noyes et al.1996). Reproductive tracts collected from Yakima elk 1987-89 indicated that 82 percent (including yearlings) were pregnant and recruitment was high despite the low post-season bull:cow ratios. Zahn (1993) concluded that low post-season bull:cow ratios were not affecting recruitment in the Yakima Elk Herd. Reproductive tract data showed slightly higher pregnancy rates and earlier conception dates in high bull:cow ratio areas. In the high bull:cow ratio areas, more cows became pregnant in the first half of September, but thereafter, dates were similar to low bull:cow ratio areas. Calf recruitment has not improved since implementing spike-only management (Table 2). The increase in adult bulls has probably boosted hunter satisfaction and created a boom in nonconsumptive use of elk, particularly shed-antler hunting.

Quote
Harvest
Elk harvest 1991-00 for the Yakima herd averaged 2,183 animals (range 1,489-3,454),
(Appendix A). The number of bull elk harvested has historically and largely reflected the previous year’s recruitment. Harvest report cards indicated that prior to implementation of spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 70-79 percent of the harvest. For the 3 years following implementation of spike-only management, yearling bulls accounted for 80-90 percent of harvest. In 1998, after 5 years of spike-only general seasons, yearling bulls accounted for 66 percent of bull harvest, indicating that the number of branched bull permits may now have a large effect on total harvest. In recent decades, permit numbers have determined antlerless harvest. In 1999, the recorded bull and antlerless mortality from hunting was estimated at 50 percent and 8 percent of the fall population. Post-season calf to spike mortality is estimated to be
60-70 percent.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 09:16:21 AM
My shorttake on the elk hunting eastern washington only.....

They need to manage between oppurtunity and trophy.
When it was anybull, you would be hard pressed to ever see a branch antlered animal.  The feeding stations would be full of cows and ONLY the occasional spike and one year had one 6 point in the upper oak creek (indians later harvested him out of the station) and one in the lower, on the hi-way, and none at the headquarters.   Most of the spikes were harvested just as they are now.  JUST as many were killed, with t he same escapement.  By the age of three, a large percentage were killed.  Too many folks were in the woods with little escapement.  There was the rare large bull that managed to hide through the whole season.   This is where westside hunting varies from eastside.  You guys have more cover thus more escapement. 
NOW The animals that are making it through the youth stage, have several years to mature without the hordes shooting them.  They actually have a chance to make it to the ripe maturity of 4 or 5 or so before most of the tag holders go after them.  If you want proof in pictures, I can post pictures of the feeding stations before spike only, and then again after. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 09:21:25 AM
I can also offer proff in my shed pile.   Once a bull is mature, he is a ton harder to kill or to hunt.  Much more fun.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 18, 2007, 09:43:15 AM
Why not have a 4pt min on all of the special permits and eliminate the spkie killing with the hopes that over time there would be more mature bulls?

Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 10:37:34 AM
WDFW-sux - There are lots of mature bulls now, so the spike only is working.  I don't see a need to change it.  Although I could see making all of eastern Wa permit only and increasing the permits.  (Of course there would be more mature bulls and more special permits available if the "Native Americans" weren't out there slaughtering the big bulls >:( ).
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 10:52:25 AM
We could also divide the state in half and make all Western Washington folks apply as a non-resident for any eastern Washington elk.  ;)  That would sure to increase the herd.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: jackelope on August 18, 2007, 01:16:54 PM
HEY now....watch it there.
don't go getting any bright ideas.

Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 01:32:55 PM
Just harassing Curly and WDFW. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 18, 2007, 01:42:52 PM
I am actually for eastern WA being its own state.  Id like to see east king county become Ceder county too.  I feel real bad for the people on the east-side that get Seattle's agenda rammed down there throat.  Must suck. :'(
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 01:45:13 PM
It does to some extent. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 01:46:23 PM
 :chuckle:

Hey Bone, if eastern and western WA were split I'd just move east sooner than I plan to now.

Actually, I'm tired of chasing spikes around.  I'm switching to Muzzleloader and hunting Western Washigton for elk now.  (Although, I did go and draw a cow tag this year so I guess I won't be chasing the big boys around this year either.................well except for out of state (Oregon).)
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 01:49:23 PM
WDFW-sux, I hear you. 

Maybe Seattle can become its own country? :chuckle:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 01:50:10 PM
When are you headed to ORegon.  I think I can OTC bowhunt it this next week down there, but decided not to.  I would hate to screw up my NM hunt with a broken ankle or something.  Besides, I would miss out on all of this extra shift stuff that I've come to adore.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: jackelope on August 18, 2007, 01:52:56 PM
Quote
Hey Bone, if eastern and western WA were split I'd just move east sooner than I plan to now.

I would too.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: bobcat on August 18, 2007, 02:00:07 PM
Quote
Hey Bone, if eastern and western WA were split I'd just move east sooner than I plan to now.

I would too.


Me too!

I'm guessing the new state of eastern wa. would have a big jump in population, might not be exactly what you eastside guys want, or expected.  :chuckle:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 18, 2007, 05:04:57 PM
You folks are welcome, just leave Gregoire and her bunch over on that side.  Course, those tree hugging bastages wouldn't like it much on this side...too much sage brush.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Curly on August 18, 2007, 05:58:16 PM
Quote
just leave Gregoire and her bunch over on that side
No problem with that.  Her and her ilk are the reason for me wanting to leave.  Too Many Liberals over on this side of the mountains.......and more of seem to be moving here all the time. :(
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Ray on August 18, 2007, 09:51:20 PM
Quote
just leave Gregoire and her bunch over on that side
No problem with that.  Her and her ilk are the reason for me wanting to leave.  Too Many Liberals over on this side of the mountains.......and more of seem to be moving here all the time. :(

Amen to that. We gotta stick together.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: HuntinCrazy on August 19, 2007, 08:15:54 PM
Thanks. So it's the estimate for the year 2000.  OK. What confused me was the "1975-2000."

HuntinCrazy, have you read the elk herd management plans? If not, you might find them interesting. Here's the Yakima plan for starters:

http://wdfw.wa.gov/wlm/game/elk/yakima.htm


I will check it out. Thanks Bobcat



Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 22, 2007, 10:12:19 PM
I am actually for eastern WA being its own state.  Id like to see east king county become Ceder county too.  I feel real bad for the people on the east-side that get Seattle's agenda rammed down there throat.  Must suck. :'(

I bet most of the people in west king county would support that.   ;)
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on August 22, 2007, 10:33:25 PM
I love the WDFW... :bash: :bash: :bash:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 22, 2007, 11:19:08 PM
I think they do a pretty good job, all things considered.  They don't run it like a business...but would we want them to?  Do we want them raising resident prices until there's a noticeable drop off in hunters?  That's what a business would do.  And they've got more outside influences telling them what they have to do than anywhere else.  The bait/hound ban?  That was handed to them by the voters.  Indians taking half the animals?   Handed to them by the feds signing a treaty and the fed courts with the Boldt decision.  The largest population of the western states (outside of CA, of course), but one of the smallest western states?  Handed to them. 

Yes, the vendor they chose to run the draws has been a catastrophe, and they should bear the blame.  But do we want them spending the extra cash (and raising tag prices) to run their own system?  BTW, they're not alone with draw vendor problems.  In AZ this year, they actually had to shut down the online permit application midway because their vendor was useless.  Everyone (myself included) had to send in a paper application with a check for the tag fees.  They also delayed the application deadline as a result.  The refund for those that didn't draw (myself included) was supposed to show up no later than August 17.  Still no check.

Seems a lot of the bad decisions actually come from them listening to hunters - e.g. the increased entiat tags, the OTC bull tags in western WA, the widespread OTC muley hunts, etc.  But isn't that what we want them to do?  Listen to us?  Problem is, the average joe hunter that wants more opportunity outnumbers the hard core guy who spends all his time thinking about hunting (i.e. those of us that troll this site every day).  In light of their constituency constantly whining about increased opportunity, I think they do a pretty good job of maintaining the herd sizes and still allowing those that want to work the chance at trophies each year. 

The lack of opportunity in those other states is no fun and games, either.  In AZ, the resident archery hunters only get to hunt elk every 5-10 years (assuming they don't want to use their points for cows).  I've got 7 points there, but am probably looking at another 7+ years before I draw, and I've got to buy a $200 license every year just to apply.  In Colorado, with its 292,000 elk and a fraction of WA's population, they still get a bunch of whiners because they don't manage for trophies.  In Utah...well, you may be waiting 15 years or more for a bull tag.  How much would you be whining right now if you didn't have a single tag in your pocket for the upcoming season?  That happens every year to residents in all-draw states (e.g. AZ).

Bottom line for me...I think we can question individual decisions they make, but on the whole, I think they're managing a pretty good balancing act.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: boneaddict on August 23, 2007, 06:44:32 AM
You just made my day WACOUES....  I forgot I had a refund coming from Arizona.   DAMN!
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: littletoes on August 23, 2007, 08:52:52 PM
Quote
Hey Bone, if eastern and western WA were split I'd just move east sooner than I plan to now.

I would too.


Me too!

I'm guessing the new state of eastern wa. would have a big jump in population, might not be exactly what you eastside guys want, or expected.  :chuckle:

 :bash: :bash: OH NOOOOO! Don't move over here...I'm begging! Stay over there...where its just soooo nice!  :P ;)

Actully I wouldn't mind some of you guys coming over here, as long as we could send a few of the crazies over there for trade!

WAcoueshunter, very well said, and you bring up some very good points that I need to remind myself at times.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: gene on August 23, 2007, 09:13:59 PM
hell if we split the state look at all the taxes we dont half to pay to keep the wetside happy for there new things they want. lmao :bash:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Dman on August 28, 2007, 12:54:57 PM
 A month ago I probably would have said no. Since the ruling two weeks ago, forcing us to pay higher taxes to the local tribes in the WDFW court loss, I realized what WDFW is up against. They do pretty well considering.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Jerbear on August 28, 2007, 04:34:38 PM
NO
As I have stated before, I have hunted since the early 50's.  I grew up in the Yakima Valley down by Wapato.  In 1955 my uncle took me deer hunting.  That is when I was told I had to get a hunting license and a deer tag.  What a concept.  I still have the license. It cost $4.00.  I could hunt everything as long as I had the tags.  The deer tag was $2.00.  I could hunt anywhere in the state, and that included the elk.  Deer season started in mid October and ran until mid November.  The month long elk season kicked in the last week of deer season.  Hunting camps were set up in October and were there until the end of elk season.  Good times were had by all.  Here in Klickitat County where I now live, on the east side of Satus pass, they issued 1,000 doe tags, on the Greyback side, 1200.  The herds were well maintained and healthy.  Now lets go to the winter of 96-97.  Thousands of deer died because there were to damn many.  You see the biologists started getting into the picture.  And a more recent example is the Elk Conservatory by Mt. St. Helens.  I believe it was a year ago in the spring when channel 6 news out of Portland went in and filmed all the dying elk.  They showed a beautiful 6x6.  well the rack was beautiful.  The animal was skin and bone dying of starvation.  What the television crew reported and what the game dept reported are two different figures.
We have in this county, two game agents.  I have no idea how many biologists.  The are two doing studies on the Western Pond turtle.  Eggs are gathered in ponds and taken to state hatcheries to hatch the N.W. spotted frogs.  Go to the game dept. web site and under hunting click on Southwest Washington report. 
They say here in Klickitat county they went to the min. 3 point on deer because the buck to doe ratio is off.  I ask the biologists how they determined that.  He said they drive up and down road and count the animals.  I live right next to the Klickitat wildlife area.  There are more does here in the spring that you can count.  This is just one wintering area .  It is like this all over the county.  But it is better to let them starve during the next bad winter.  A retired  biologist set the fall turkey hunt quota at 75.  Now this is for FOUR game units which take in a hell of lot of country.  Fewer people are putting in each year, as the odds are just too great.  I can show you flocks of 70 to 100 birds all over the county.  We should be able to hunt in the fall if you have the tags.The sale of hunt applications is what matters. 
A few years ago Field and Stream magazine stated that the Washington state game dept was the most political department in the whole U.S.  An example of this is when the Queen Bee  stole the election for Governor.  She replaced 3 commissioners on the game dept, with her own choices.  One was Bob Tuck from Selah.  He hunts and fishes and listened to us.  He did not even know he had been replaced until he stopped getting mail and had to call to find out what had happened. No thank you, nothing.
Until ALL THE SPORTSMEN AND WOMEN, all the organizations get together and organized and make a change it is going to get worse.  The solution.  Get Tim Eyman or some attorney that hunt and fishes, and get it on the ballot that we elect the game commission.  Period.  I will now get off my soap box and go do my chores.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on August 28, 2007, 05:16:34 PM
AMEN :)

One thing you said reminded me of something........and that is the flawed method that they use to guess the number of animals in one area...........here is what happens when you actually count

http://www.craigdailypress.com/news/2007/aug/27/elk_numbers_jump/

Oops :chuckle:

Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WAcoueshunter on August 29, 2007, 12:03:48 AM
here is what happens when you actually count



Funny, I was about to post an article about the same study...but my point was that this is a Colorado story.  Just shows that there are G&F problems everywhere, and we can't say ours is necessarily worse than others. 

To reply to the other stuff from Jerbear's post, to me, the big difference is the number of residents.  Certainly the game populations were better 50 years ago.  But we also had a fraction of the current number of WA residents.  Not only are there more hunters, but those people also live in developments, cut timber, develop/pave former habitat, etc.  As a result, we now have a lot of great whitetail and turkey habitat, but our muley populations are hurting.  I don't blame this on WDFW, but on development.  Not sure what to do about that...but I can say I'm generally in favor of laws that generally slow down development.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: dbllunger on November 16, 2007, 03:39:37 PM
They are controlled by a liberal democratic party and so it will not change.  I would say they do the best they can based on who is in charge.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Fesup on December 11, 2007, 11:46:50 PM
I would like to see them do away with the any buck on the west side black tail
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: Intruder on December 17, 2007, 11:56:48 AM
Bone makes some really excellents points in his first post on this topic.  While I generally think that the WDFW do NOT do a very good job.... they are behind the 8 ball on alot of things.  Now the flip side is, if they weren't would they do better.  I tend to think that it wouldn't be a whole lot better but ya never know. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: WAcoyotehunter on December 17, 2007, 12:10:58 PM
I agree that the WDFW makes some unclear rules/decisions, Keep in mind how many different groups they're fielding calls from- i.e developers, snow mobile clubs, ATV clubs, horseback clubs, hunters, anglers, ranchers..... They're in a tough position to please everyone, and they're doing what they can to manage more than just the game animals. 
Keep making the phone calls and pushing for different management aproaches, but keep in mind, they have a lot of peeple leaning on them for their own interests as well.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: edmondshunter on December 17, 2007, 08:29:52 PM
Its hard to say if the State really has a handle on the mang. end of hunting in this state.  There are some back assward rules. Why cant you get a doe tag for open GMU's?  Also why the ghost numbers for tag drawings, if you don't want to be drawn, don't apply. I understand the weighted point system but why make it so complicated. I guess it comes down to money.

I think they should make the game regs. a lot easier to understand, and use to the hunters advantage.  Right now they are deceptive and sometimes down right hard to comprehend.  Being a novice hunter with no one to show me the ropes, I find it hard and discouraging to prep for a hunt in a new area.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: tmike on December 17, 2007, 08:55:48 PM
I also believe, can't prove, just my opinion, that a lot of the decisions are based on politics not biology and many of those decisions are trade offs between deer, elk, shellfish, salmon and steelhead with the tribes. No one would say that. Just a gut feeling based on some of the answers I've heard.
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: M_ray on December 17, 2007, 09:23:53 PM
A staggering number of no votes someone should forward this on to the WDFW ... oh wait never mind like they care anyway  :DOH: what was I thinking!
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: billythekidrock on December 18, 2007, 06:02:11 AM
A staggering number of no votes someone should forward this on to the WDFW ... oh wait never mind like they care anyway  :DOH: what was I thinking!

 :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on January 17, 2014, 05:56:38 PM
Read through this thread and here we and here we are same issues 7 years latter. id be willing to bet in another 7 years it will be the same???????? :bash:
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: buckfvr on January 17, 2014, 06:22:38 PM
Same mismanaged cluster schmuck no account dont care anyhow bunch of agenda driven studies to no end.  Get as much money as you can while it lasts is what I see. 
Title: Re: Do you think the WDFW is doing a good job?
Post by: snowpack on January 17, 2014, 06:43:22 PM
Good job for who?  For hunters and fisherman overall, I think no.  Yeah, they have to deal with lots of obstacles--feds, liberal Seattle and treaties; but it seems they can work around much of that kind of stuff.  They could open cougar and bobcat season year round and make no bag limit.  No bag limit for bears and lower the price of additional tags.  Etc.  For fishing, they keeping cutting back on hatchery plant numbers and rivers planted.  For halibut season, they could move the Thursday portion to the weekend, so people could fish instead of being at work (overall number of days might be shorter to get the quota, but more people could make it out to fish).  They could release more pheasant and extend the season.  Seems there's lots they could do to encourage more people to hunt/fish.
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