Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 22, 2013, 02:02:50 PM
Post by: Big game archer on February 22, 2013, 02:09:30 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on February 22, 2013, 02:10:16 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 22, 2013, 02:27:54 PM
here's a vidI think I heard of these ones before ...Cam Island ?
turkey brawl (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez-AZ2DQuhE#ws)
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 22, 2013, 02:31:01 PM
Check out my boys ... :yike: Two turkey icons now :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 02:35:22 PM
Post by: Chase 1 on February 22, 2013, 02:38:14 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 22, 2013, 02:38:56 PM
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 02:41:16 PM
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 02:47:41 PM
its possible they were the true wild birds since we turned them loose around Bryant Area !!!!Are you asking if you think they are related to your release birds?
Post by: Mfowl on February 22, 2013, 03:12:16 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 22, 2013, 03:14:16 PM
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 03:22:29 PM
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 03:44:14 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on February 22, 2013, 06:37:30 PM
Yes ...if they look like the ones BradyFC posted then they are hybrids ...
Ya think. :chuckle:
Post by: Wacenturion on February 22, 2013, 06:41:29 PM
Dumb question, but how can you tell if they are hybrids and what kind of turkeys did you guys release in the 90s'. I obviously don't know a whole lot about turkeys, please forgive me.
Coloration of the birds tail tips, banding etc. Behavior is another. Birds released on Pillchuck Tree Farm back in the 90's were wild trapped Eastern's from Iowa.
Post by: Kola16 on February 22, 2013, 06:48:43 PM
its possible they were the true wild birds since we turned them loose around Bryant Area !!!!:dunno: What are you talking about :chuckle:
Post by: Southpole on February 22, 2013, 07:06:55 PM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on February 22, 2013, 07:51:22 PM
Post by: kevinlisa06 on February 22, 2013, 11:33:32 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 23, 2013, 07:55:31 AM
Post by: whitey on February 23, 2013, 08:02:36 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 23, 2013, 08:16:39 AM
#1 Rio Grand Turkey ... see the( goldish coloring) in the tail feathers ...
#2 Eastern WIld turkey .....see the ( Chestnut coloring ) in the tail fan ...
#3 Merriams Wild turkey ...see the ( white or yellowish coloring ) in the tail fan ...
Then you have the Oseola in Florida which looks like the eastern bird with different markings on the wings ...
Then you have the Goulds in Arizona which look like the Merriams but their tail fans are usually a true white colored..
Then you have the Ocellated Turkey in Central America :yike: Hope this helps !
Post by: Southpole on February 23, 2013, 11:44:27 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on February 23, 2013, 12:11:42 PM
The picture of the red turkey on top of another and that lovely looking bird to the right....well lets just say no self respecting truly wild Eastern gobbler, would ever let himself look like that. That's a pretty common attire for penned birds or domestically reared, free roaming around the farm types.
Post by: HoofsandWings on February 23, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 23, 2013, 02:05:04 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on February 23, 2013, 04:33:10 PM
when people buy these pen raised birds they are always marked Easterns - Rios - hybrids ect ....if you buy turkeys from anyone else rather than a state representive then most likely they are pen raised birds ...No matter what the seller is telling you ....just shoot them all when they walk up and eat from your hand :dunno: :chuckle: 100% wild bird wants nothening to do with you :tup:
:yeah:
True, wild turkeys are not purchased in a way we think of things being bought. The transaction in wild trapped birds occurs between states like in the case of Washington getting birds from Iowa. The price per bird was set based on an average tapping cost nationwide, per the different subspecies. Much easier to trap Merriam's and Rio's than Eastern's just from the difference in wintering flock sizes. Went the rocket net goes off and 100+ Merriams or Rio's are on the bait, the odds of having move birds per individual shoot is much greater than say 20 plus or minus Eastern's on bait.
The sad thing is Washington used to get birds in trade for other birds or animals or for nothing. States just wanting to help out other states. Generally F&W agencies had to trap and relocate anyway and sending some out of state to help another agency was no big deal. :tup:
Then the NWTF saw dollar signs and inserted themselves into the transaction. They asked the various states what it cost to trap birds, then applied those findings to an NWTF cost chart. Then they hung a carrot out to states with large numbers of birds and lots of NWTF members, in the form of dollars from the receiving NWTF state chapter coming back to them to use in their state.
NWTF controls all the Superfund accounts and movement of dollars between them Administrative fees added in as well as their approval for expenditures. Hell they even charged the receiving states interest. That's when sportsmen lost big time. The amount of birds coming in was dependent on available dollars on hand or borrowed that was used to pay the trapping state. Consequently, numbers of birds available for release when WDFW was open to doing it, slowed way down.
NWTF..."Not Worth The Frustration" if you ask me. Bunch of freaking used car salesmen. Too bad because the members in state are good folks and put in a lot of effort for their passion, only to have it harvested by some good ol' boys down south. :twocents:
Post by: Wacenturion on February 23, 2013, 05:02:29 PM
when people buy these pen raised birds they are always marked Easterns - Rios - hybrids ect ....if you buy turkeys from anyone else rather than a state representive then most likely they are pen raised birds ...No matter what the seller is telling you ....just shoot them all when they walk up and eat from your hand :dunno: :chuckle: 100% wild bird wants nothening to do with you :tup:
only the red was in these turks was bought the rest came out of the woods not from a seller and you can get turks used to people happens all the time. put a gain feeder out and let them get used to it and won't take long before you can sit right next to it and watch them eat. been there done it try it find out
True, wild turkeys will tame down around farms or even near some rural homes if fed, especially in winter. They have a comfort zone and do get used to things. Merriam's and Rio's more so than Eastern's. Wild birds though generally will move away from those free meal sights as things warm up and breeding commences, followed by brooding and pecking order establishment during the rest of the year.
Your statement of the "Red" bringing them out of the woods is probably a fair assumption, along with help from the feed "Red" and others are getting. However just what did "Red" bring out of the woods? Certainly not any offspring of wild birds that were released on the Pillchuck Tree Farm. They are as I said before, from a game farm stock of mixed heritage. They are most likely the result of someone trying to do his part to get turkeys established. You'll notice I left out the word "wild".
These types of releases show up fast as in just about every case they end up in someone's yard, roosting on someone's roof and defecating all over some one's porch or deck. Like you, been there done that. Will some have Eastern characteristic? Of course, along with any other subspecies on the game farm that their linage traces to.
As far as the wet goofy looking Eastern you refer to. Well all I can say is, I seen lots of wild birds and even in our wet weather, they generally don't allow themselves to get in that condition. Otherwise they are easy predator bait and removed from the population. They depend on the condition of their plumage. That bird is feather duster material. It looks like, acts like, and is a domesticated game farm bird.
Post by: lokidog on February 23, 2013, 07:03:39 PM
As far as the wet goofy looking Eastern you refer to. Well all I can say is, I seen lots of wild birds and even in our wet weather, they generally don't allow themselves to get in that condition. Otherwise they are easy predator bait and removed from the population. They depend on the condition of their plumage. That bird is feather duster material. It looks like, acts like, and is a domesticated game farm bird.
I have raised 100's turkeys as well as hunted wild birds. I could show you that bird 2 two days later you would probably tell me take wasn't the same bird. Come on down after a week of spring rain here on the wet side and I will more than happy to show you. I watched these birds for the last 5 years so I think I will go with what I know not with what you think.
[/quote]
Dont get into it with Wacent, he's the expert on turkeys...... :rolleyes:
Post by: Turkeyman on February 23, 2013, 07:21:12 PM
Post by: packmule on February 23, 2013, 09:12:53 PM
I don't think any of the comments made in posts thus far were intended to be offensive to you, or to the turkeys in your back yard (except maybe the feather duster comment, but that was funny!). You seem to be very convinced that the original turkeys that showed up in your yard were true Easterns. Why are you convinced that they're progeny of wild Easterns and not a hybrid mix? Perhaps more info on that front would be a useful contribution to this post. Also, thanks for sharing the photos and video.
Your observation about predators being hard on young turkeys in Western Washington is quite right. . .I've had coyotes, fox, and bobcat respond to turkey calls while hunting.
Post by: Wacenturion on February 23, 2013, 11:11:28 PM
"that bird was a good looking bird when not all wet. all the turks start looking like that when then when they get that wet. I have had too many turks for someone to tell me otherwise and I have the proof in the yard to back it."
I never said that the bird to the right of "Red" in the picture you took didn't look normal when he isn't wet. I'm sure he looks a lot different when dry. What I said was he is not a wild bird based on my observation of the way he did look in that picture. Wild turkeys, wet or otherwise do not take on this appearance, while those that are domesticated usually do when they get wet. Hope that clarifies what I meant.
To illustrate my point, the following series of pictures show both wild turkey hens and gobblers, all of which are standing out in the rain, or had been rained on, when the pictures were taken. Just so you don't wonder about the bench in the first photo, that Eastern resides in Central Park.
You and others can draw your own conclusion as to the difference in appearance between the wet bird in your photo and the wet wild birds in the pictures I posted. You'll probably also see a somewhat distinct difference in looks, subtle or otherwise in characteristics between these wild birds and say the birds in the video posted earlier in the thread taken in the back yard.
The last two photos probably illustrate it the best with close up shots, with both the hen and gobbler obviously being very wet.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain_zps2edef1c2.jpg&hash=7e4723d8c35a3fea54f32e9aefac51863cdb4324)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain8_zps698343c9.jpg&hash=b157e48eca5603a897cab6f1d057861f527e3767)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain3_zpsb49569fc.jpg&hash=307b9588158fbe7c8cdd3d48719e33f95ef4e5f2)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain2_zpse2a3a6d7.jpg&hash=ba73eaf11d6437031adc41c388984fde187e55dd)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain1_zps2b7962a7.jpg&hash=1e7a890828410e6f73a404469d28b349ddbcc4f1)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain7_zps4fe99bd7.jpg&hash=a080e4a98d2cf207ee15407a7bdf554463dc4573)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain4_zps0bd20842.jpg&hash=a9f251d6979b68048e7f901f4bda01e0a1c367ba)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi98.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl241%2FSS30ANV%2Fturkeyinrain5_zps4d6768c5.jpg&hash=71a4c92a50cfd3f77dc8bb4ced88291237567120)
Post by: Wacenturion on February 23, 2013, 11:15:59 PM
Turkey Hunting in the Rain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4qVr5FfzN8#ws)
Post by: turkeydancer on February 24, 2013, 07:22:51 AM
No ones picking on you ... they are just trying to inform you. I know WaCent, Turkeyman, Yelp and many others on this sight and their backgrounds ... they are the main reasons we have the wild turkey hunting opportunities that we enjoy today and they truly are experts in the field. These guys are only on here to inform, educate, and "HELP" others that share their passion.
So do you really want to know if the birds are truly wild or feral farm stock? I know I would want to know if they are truly wild because I share their passion .....
:dunno:
Then please accept their answers in the manner it was given and accept the fact that they are feral farm stock (I knew that when I first saw the posted pics and I'm not claiming to be an expert like the forementioned truly are) ... and if you don't want to accept it when they are truthfully just stating a fact, that's okay ... don't get defensive, question their knowledge, or their reasoning for stating facts.
:twocents:
Post by: packmule on February 24, 2013, 09:13:30 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 24, 2013, 09:40:21 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on February 24, 2013, 10:37:31 AM
Brady FC -
Many of the people on here have spent their lifetime as professional wildlife biologists ... many have spent numerous years/decades as volunteers at local, district, and state NWTF positions ... many are Washington Turkey Slam Pin owners ... many are veterans of numerous wild turkey releases that have made turkey hunting what it is today in this state ... and many have done it all. You will not find anyone more dedicated and passionate about not just hunting turkeys, but daily about informing, educating, and helping others become successful at hunting them. Most of us know they are truly unmatched in their knowledge of all things turkey and are the type of people I want as friends and mentors. Please consider this and ask any questions of them about their reasoning behind their responses to your posts. They are giving you valuable info ... it's your right not to accept it if you want, but ....
Post by: Gobble Doc on February 24, 2013, 01:08:09 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 24, 2013, 01:15:55 PM
#1 In camp taking a nap ?
#2 In my truck ridding around trying to roadside one ? :chuckle:
Or # 3 sitting along side an open field where I know turkeys will end up if it starts to rain ?
and someone can explain why I would be sitting along side an open area or field if it is raining while I am turkey hunting ! :dunno: ;)
Post by: turkeydancer on February 24, 2013, 01:34:04 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 24, 2013, 01:35:58 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on February 24, 2013, 01:59:12 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 24, 2013, 02:11:05 PM
Post by: turkeydancer on February 24, 2013, 02:25:46 PM
Post by: kevinlisa06 on February 24, 2013, 03:56:52 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on February 24, 2013, 05:13:44 PM
Post by: Turkeyman on February 24, 2013, 08:44:12 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 25, 2013, 06:42:16 AM
:yike: Man I thought I get excited :dunno: :chuckle: Calm the hell down ...You are the one acting like we are picking on you ...We are just sharing information with you :dunno: Like I said earlier SHOOT THEM ALL ! I am sure they taste the same :chuckle: :chuckle:Brady fc ... I do not think anyone is calling you out ...We do not know where these birds came from you are referring too ! But in that last photo you just posted that may or may not be a wild bird ...I see some dark CHESTNUT feathers on the tail area and it is for sure one healthy lookin bird ..all we are trying to say is there is a huge difference between wild and pen raised birds ... I am not saying Easterns will not feed out of your yard but I have been around alot of turkeys in my life from east to west and I am sure a few other have too ! But I know an eastern bird rather in be in Pa or Wa they will not hang around long or let you get to close to them ...feeder or no feeder ! and the comment you made about some of us not knowing anything is a little off ...Alot of us breathe to hunt turkey which means we just do not wait until spring to think we know it all :dunno: :chuckle: I have more money tied up in turkey hunting gear than any other gear I own and spend a couple more thousand in just looking for turkeys in gas - camping ect ...turkey hunting can be exspensive ;) :chuckle:
If you would stop and at least read the post before you start bashing might help. I clearly stated that the bird in the last pic was a hybrid and where did I say you didn't know anything about turkeys. You guys think your the only ones that can tell the difference between birds. hell now after all this talk about turkey I'm going to go out and shoot one of my ugly pen raised turkeys fry that sucker up and forget I even tried to share any info with you guys. I'm done
Post by: turkeydancer on February 25, 2013, 08:48:11 AM
Here's what's posted on their website:
Youth & Adult Turkey Calling Contest
Give it your best call! Open to all ages, separate divisions for youth and adults. Prizes awarded to the top 3 places for youth ages 12-17 years and adults 18 and over. Participants may use any type of call. This contest is for beginner and novice callers. Youth contest (Ages 12-17 years) Saturday, March 16 at 1:00PM Adult Contest (Ages 18 & up) Saturday, March 16 at 2:30PM
Saturday, 1:00PM Youth Contest; 2:30PM Adult Contest
Location: Main Aisle
Note - Lake Washington Longbeards Chapter is the lead on the clinic and calling contests
Contact: Theodore Moore - President
Phone: (425) 765-5592
Email: Theodoremoore34@gmail.com
:yike: Sorry, but since it says for beginner and novice callers :dunno:, I guess you can't participate ! :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: turkeydancer on February 25, 2013, 10:27:07 AM
However with that said, there is a slight possibility that these are Merriams that came from the eastside thru the pass and down to Snohomish area. :dunno:
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on February 25, 2013, 04:42:43 PM
Post by: full strutting on March 03, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
Post by: Southpole on March 03, 2013, 08:48:26 PM
Seen 4 birds just out of Arlington, on way fishing the north fork stilly. Few months agosounds about right with the location
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on March 04, 2013, 05:52:40 AM
Post by: WaltAlpine on March 04, 2013, 09:01:06 AM
Post by: Southpole on March 04, 2013, 11:47:11 AM
Post by: WaltAlpine on March 06, 2013, 09:48:32 AM
Post by: Southpole on March 06, 2013, 09:50:08 AM
Post by: 180-GRAIN on March 10, 2013, 09:52:05 AM
Just curious if you or anybody on here knows what the average cost of a turkey relocation to this state costs? :dunno:when people buy these pen raised birds they are always marked Easterns - Rios - hybrids ect ....if you buy turkeys from anyone else rather than a state representive then most likely they are pen raised birds ...No matter what the seller is telling you ....just shoot them all when they walk up and eat from your hand :dunno: :chuckle: 100% wild bird wants nothening to do with you :tup:
:yeah:
True, wild turkeys are not purchased in a way we think of things being bought. The transaction in wild trapped birds occurs between states like in the case of Washington getting birds from Iowa. The price per bird was set based on an average tapping cost nationwide, per the different subspecies. Much easier to trap Merriam's and Rio's than Eastern's just from the difference in wintering flock sizes. Went the rocket net goes off and 100+ Merriams or Rio's are on the bait, the odds of having move birds per individual shoot is much greater than say 20 plus or minus Eastern's on bait.
The sad thing is Washington used to get birds in trade for other birds or animals or for nothing. States just wanting to help out other states. Generally F&W agencies had to trap and relocate anyway and sending some out of state to help another agency was no big deal. :tup:
Then the NWTF saw dollar signs and inserted themselves into the transaction. They asked the various states what it cost to trap birds, then applied those findings to an NWTF cost chart. Then they hung a carrot out to states with large numbers of birds and lots of NWTF members, in the form of dollars from the receiving NWTF state chapter coming back to them to use in their state.
NWTF controls all the Superfund accounts and movement of dollars between them Administrative fees added in as well as their approval for expenditures. Hell they even charged the receiving states interest. That's when sportsmen lost big time. The amount of birds coming in was dependent on available dollars on hand or borrowed that was used to pay the trapping state. Consequently, numbers of birds available for release when WDFW was open to doing it, slowed way down.
NWTF..."Not Worth The Frustration" if you ask me. Bunch of freaking used car salesmen. Too bad because the members in state are good folks and put in a lot of effort for their passion, only to have it harvested by some good ol' boys down south. :twocents:
Post by: Wacenturion on March 10, 2013, 10:23:27 AM
Difference was that Merriams and Rio's usually come to bait in large numbers...i.e. sometimes 100 plus, while Easterns usually are in groups of 20-30 birds. In addition, more hours are required to get Easterns on bait than the other two subspecies. Therefore the huge difference in price per bird.
Post by: 180-GRAIN on March 10, 2013, 12:06:26 PM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 10, 2013, 10:53:53 PM
Unfortunate........
Post by: turkeydancer on March 11, 2013, 08:40:35 AM
Post by: Wacenturion on March 11, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
Lat attempt at releases in NW WA where tanked when the WDFW & NWTF walked away after the local organic farmers raised concerns ... :bash:
Which I might add those concerns were valid. NWTF "experts" told WDFW that they were premature with Easterns in the 90's and to release Rio's into western Washington instead because they did so well in southern Oregon. Yeah like Whatcom County and Roseburg, Oregon are so similar. :bash:
Rio introductions up north would have been a huge mistake with nuisance problems to certainly follow on those small organic farms. Easterns on the other hand could have been sold to those opposed with a little work and education, as they would have posed no problems whatsoever. It would have also resurrected the Eastern release program.
In a rush to get something to hunt up there, coupled with the opinions of a couple NWTF biologists and NWTF regional community organizers that didn't know what they were talking about, it unfortunately gave WDFW what they wanted, an excuse to say no.
Post by: turkeydancer on March 11, 2013, 10:34:33 AM
Yes, something that we personally have dscussed at length ... a bad start with the cheap fix recommended that ended in a totally bad finish ... problem is that nothing is plannned for the forseable future especially since WDFW has their present mind set of "let's wait and see, and do not do anything that will "piss anyone off", and the NWTF doesn't want to go in debt again buying $500+ birds.
:yike: