Post by: shredder4286 on March 20, 2013, 08:00:37 PM
The tech at the bow shop measured me, and said that I'm actually a 29 1/2" draw length. So we set the new bow up for that length and I've felt totally wobbly, uncomfortable and screwed up every since.
Should I go back to a shorter draw length? I loved shooting my bow the way it was set up at very first, but now it's just aggrivating...
Wanna be able to shoot accurately enough to hunt this fall.
Post by: RadSav on March 20, 2013, 08:13:04 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 20, 2013, 08:13:31 PM
Post by: dreamunelk on March 20, 2013, 08:16:27 PM
Post by: shredder4286 on March 20, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
Quote
How tall are you?I'm 5' 10"! So, 70" divided by 2.5 is 28..
Quote
You may want to get remeasure from someone.I'm in Colville. The only "bow shops" I know of that are fairly close are Camo'd arrow and Clarks all sports. But Clark's customer service for archery is usually pretty unhelpful. (Camo'd arrow is where I bought the new bow at)
Post by: buckfvr on March 20, 2013, 08:27:36 PM
If they set you up at 29 1/2" and then added a string loop, you are definetly stretched out too far.....Im thinking 28" with a loop would be right......
Post by: jgrimes on March 20, 2013, 08:28:32 PM
Post by: shredder4286 on March 20, 2013, 08:30:53 PM
Quote
Does your bow have adjustable draw length cams?
We didn't have to get any modules to adjust it.
The bow is a hoyt power hawk.
Post by: dreamunelk on March 20, 2013, 08:35:23 PM
Try this link for instructions. Have someone help. It may be correct but, if it feels strange after shooting for awhile then something is wrong.
On a side note I gained and extra 1.5" recently when a pro shooter friend informed me my release was adjust incorrectly. Took a couple of days and it started to feel good.
Post by: RadSav on March 20, 2013, 08:35:42 PM
QuoteHow tall are you?I'm 5' 10"! So, 70" divided by 2.5 is 28..QuoteYou may want to get remeasure from someone.I'm in Colville. The only "bow shops" I know of that are fairly close are Camo'd arrow and Clarks all sports. But Clark's customer service for archery is usually pretty unhelpful. (Camo'd arrow is where I bought the new bow at)
Yeah, you would have to be built like an anvil to be 5'10" and fit to a 29.5" bow. 28" sounds about right to me +/- .5" That should be much more comfortable than being 1.5" too long. And it will avoid a lot of bad habits from forming. Wingspan like you mention is the very best measure. Although the measurement has to be done with the archer relaxed. If you stretch out you get too long a measurement. Shooting a short draw length rarely is a cause for bad habits while too long of draw length leads to nothing but trouble.
Post by: shredder4286 on March 20, 2013, 08:40:00 PM
Quote
Shooting a short draw length rarely is a cause for bad habits while too long of draw length leads to nothing but trouble.
There's a good bit of truth in that I bet. I just can't figure out why She'd set me up for a draw length that was so long for me.
Anyway, maybe I'll go over there tomorrow and have her adjust it so it's shorter.
Post by: buckfvr on March 20, 2013, 08:40:43 PM
If all else fails, I can have you come over and shoot so I can see what is going on first hand.....
Post by: RadSav on March 20, 2013, 08:45:31 PM
Maybe she had just seen that albino turkey she wants to shoot out there! Got excited and couldn't think straight :chuckle:
Post by: shredder4286 on March 20, 2013, 08:54:42 PM
Quote
Start out by taking it back and having them set you up at 28, take some shots, and maybe try 28 1/2 .....compare and move on....You may have gotten 29 1/2 as that was what they had.......just sayin.....seen it before.
If all else fails, I can have you come over and shoot so I can see what is going on first hand.....
Ok, cool. I appreciate the offer to help.
I just measured my wingspan. If I relax, it's 70". If I push my chest up against the wall, it's 71 3/4".
Quote
They think they are setting it shorter when they are actually setting it longer
Maybe so, but they meant to set it up at 29 1/2". Either way, I'll go get it shortened. Thanks for the advice everybody. I'll give you an update once I get it all figured out.
Post by: mountainman on March 20, 2013, 09:05:14 PM
Post by: pendoreilleadventures on March 21, 2013, 12:41:12 AM
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 01:36:47 AM
Does your bow have adjustable draw length cams ???? I cant imagine you are a 29 1/2 @ 5ft 10" What bow did you get ? Give us more info about bow.:yeah:
If they set you up at 29 1/2" and then added a string loop, you are definitely stretched out too far.....I'm thinking 28" with a loop would be right......
My dads 5'10 and shoots a 28". I'm 6'3 and shoot a 30". Id suggest getting another measurement, to make sure. A few minutes at a bow shop will save you lots of $$. Find a good bowshop, sportsmans warehouse or whoever can be hit and miss. A stabilizer and wrist slung and correct draw length should feel very comfortable. Did you get string slap with that long draw length?
Post by: RadSav on March 21, 2013, 01:42:52 AM
If Red said thats what you are she should know she knows her stuff very good archer she competes in Vegas every year.
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Really? I always thought her last name was Cunningham. Guess I've been wrong :dunno:
No slam - Just that must be the reason I've never seen her name on the Vegas shooters list.
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 01:49:37 AM
Post by: RadSav on March 21, 2013, 05:04:27 AM
After 30 some years with the bow I have a well established anchor point. If a new archer is not sure of their anchor point you can still check for balance and draw length by bringing the nock of the arrow into the corner of your mouth. Some say just touching while others say more like fitting a horse bit (2-3 rings). 1/4" one way or another isn't going to hurt anything at all. In either case draw a good number of times and try to find a comfortable spot that you can repeat. Then with your shoes off and eyes closed draw the bow and anchor while pointing the bow at a specific target. The idea is to concentrate on where your body's weight is placed on your feet. If perfectly vertical and form is in the desired "Capital T" your weight should be evenly distributed between your right and left feet as well as between heel and toe. For a right handed archer if more weight is on your right foot and/or on your heals your draw length is too long. And the opposite is true as too much weight on your toes and/or on your left foot your draw length is too short.
If you feel as though your weight is wondering back and forth this is a very common problem as few (outside of FITA archers) face the target correctly. If you notice this being an issue it is because you are too "closed" to the target. Open your body to the target by pivoting on your left foot bring your right foot forward, but keeping the whole length of your feet parallel to one another and feet shoulder width apart. I find my best position is when my feet are forming a line at a 45 degree angle toward the target. You might be 10% more or less as it is not a perfect science. But, you definately do not want your toes pointing at a right angle to the target as so many do these days. Once that wondering back and forth goes away you're about right. Now go back to concentating on holding your weight perfectly balanced in your feet left/right and front/back. Once you find that spot...that should be your correct draw length (plus or minus very little).
WARNING !!! Bows are a lot like shoes. A 9.5 D in Nike is not the same as a 9.5 D in New Balance. So never ever trust the draw length stated by your bow manufacturer. Some bows it takes 27.5" modules to hit my perfect 28.5" draw length others it takes a 29 module or setting. Even within the same make and model I have found draw length varying as much as a full inch. I keep a full length arrow laying around that has my "True" draw length marked with yellow tape. Any time I get a new bow or even a new string and cables I check for "True" draw length accuracy and adjust as needed.
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 09:01:58 AM
Quote
Did you get string slap with that long draw length?
Yes, unless I bend by bow arm at a 45 degree angle.
Quote
If Red said thats what you are she should know she knows her stuff very good archer she competes in Vegas every year.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking her at all. I just know that the set up I have right now makes me feel like William Wallace at the end of braveheart. :yike:
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
Quote
Each year I try to spend a month or two getting "Back to Basics". Part of this is re-evaluating my balance and form. And almost all of these weeks are spent drawing, anchoring and shooting in bare feet with my eyes closed. Very small differences in form and draw length can be immediately recognized in your feet.
After 30 some years with the bow I have a well established anchor point. If a new archer is not sure of their anchor point you can still check for balance and draw length by bringing the nock of the arrow into the corner of your mouth. Some say just touching while others say more like fitting a horse bit (2-3 rings). 1/4" one way or another isn't going to hurt anything at all. In either case draw a good number of times and try to find a comfortable spot that you can repeat. Then with your shoes off and eyes closed draw the bow and anchor while pointing the bow at a specific target. The idea is to concentrate on where your body's weight is placed on your feet. If perfectly vertical and form is in the desired "Capital T" your weight should be evenly distributed between your right and left feet as well as between heel and toe. For a right handed archer if more weight is on your right foot and/or on your heals your draw length is too long. And the opposite is true as too much weight on your toes and/or on your left foot your draw length is too short.
If you feel as though your weight is wondering back and forth this is a very common problem as few (outside of FITA archers) face the target correctly. If you notice this being an issue it is because you are too "closed" to the target. Open your body to the target by pivoting on your left foot bring your right foot forward, but keeping the whole length of your feet parallel to one another and feet shoulder width apart. I find my best position is when my feet are forming a line at a 45 degree angle toward the target. You might be 10% more or less as it is not a perfect science. But, you definately do not want your toes pointing at a right angle to the target as so many do these days. Once that wondering back and forth goes away you're about right. Now go back to concentating on holding your weight perfectly balanced in your feet left/right and front/back. Once you find that spot...that should be your correct draw length (plus or minus very little).
WARNING !!! Bows are a lot like shoes. A 9.5 D in Nike is not the same as a 9.5 D in New Balance. So never ever trust the draw length stated by your bow manufacturer. Some bows it takes 27.5" modules to hit my perfect 28.5" draw length others it takes a 29 module or setting. Even within the same make and model I have found draw length varying as much as a full inch. I keep a full length arrow laying around that has my "True" draw length marked with yellow tape. Any time I get a new bow or even a new string and cables I check for "True" draw length accuracy and adjust as needed.
Once I get my bow set up to the right DL, I'm gonna try some of the tweaks you suggested. However, I've found that if I try to change more than 1 thing at a time, I'm setting myself up for failure every time. Good advice, though. I never would have thought of shooting barefoot.
Post by: demontang on March 21, 2013, 11:38:08 AM
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 12:04:11 PM
The string is still slapping me in the forearm, though. She said it might be from bow-hand torque, but I don't know how to fix that.
Quote
If all else fails, I can have you come over and shoot so I can see what is going on first hand.....
Buckfvr- I might just take you up on your offer.
Post by: h20hunter on March 21, 2013, 12:07:57 PM
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 12:10:18 PM
QuoteDid you get string slap with that long draw length?
Yes, unless I bend by bow arm at a 45 degree angle.QuoteSorry man, that sucks. Form is extremely important like Radsav and others have said. I was alwaystaught to have a slight bend in the elbow of the arm holding the bow ( left arm for most) that would be impossible for you to accomplish with your long draw.
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 12:15:45 PM
I'm no bow expert so take this for what it is worth. Are you shooting with your arm locked? Bend that elbow just a bit and don't have a death grip on it. I would think that would take care of getting hit.:yeah:I'm no expert either but this makes sense to me. That's also how you need to be measured. H2o we could go over and help the Guy out, say around.d the time turkey opens. :chuckle:
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 12:17:11 PM
Quote
Open your body to the target by pivoting on your left foot bring your right foot forward, but keeping the whole length of your feet parallel to one another and feet shoulder width apart. I find my best position is when my feet are forming a line at a 45 degree angle toward the target.
I'm gonna give this a shot and see how it feels.
Quote
Are you shooting with your arm locked?
For the last year, I've been shooting with my bow arm practically bent at a 45 degree angle, so no string slap there. Then, I was told to just relax the shoulder of the bow arm.
That might be a big part of the issue I'm having. I shot for a year with totally goofy form in my bow arm, and now I'm trying to unlearn bad habits.
Post by: RadSav on March 21, 2013, 04:34:43 PM
I totally agree on not trying to make too many changes at a time. But, if draw length is too long you don't want to be practicing bad habits either. Only takes a few draw and anchor series with your eyes closed to isolate what you need to work on. Then you can systematically concentrate on those things one at a time.
VERY rarely does "Hand Torque" lead to string slap. Are you double jointed in your elbow? Is the string biting you close to the wrist or closer to the elbow? Do you shoot with a wrist sling? Is the draw weight comfortable or do you struggle to draw it?
Battleready and I are going to be staying with Bearpaw for a few days at the turkey opener (I think April 15th). I could bring a bow press over and a target. Could give a quick evaluation if you wanted to meet up. I'll PM my phone number if you are interested in that.
Post by: KFhunter on March 21, 2013, 05:46:42 PM
If you can; go mid week during the day if you go on the weekend or later in the day when school is out then there's too many people in there to really focus on one customer.
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 08:42:10 PM
Quote
Are you double jointed in your elbow?No
Quote
Is the string biting you close to the wrist or closer to the elbow?Closer to the wrist.
Quote
Do you shoot with a wrist sling?Yes
Quote
Is the draw weight comfortable or do you struggle to draw it?It's comfortable.
Quote
Battleready and I are going to be staying with Bearpaw for a few days at the turkey opener (I think April 15th). I could bring a bow press over and a target. Could give a quick evaluation if you wanted to meet up. I'll PM my phone number if you are interested in that.
I'd be much obliged if you'd help me out. I'm starting a new job that is gonna have varying shifts for the first few months, so I'll have to keep in touch with you to keep you updated.
Post by: jgrimes on March 21, 2013, 09:42:21 PM
Post by: shredder4286 on March 21, 2013, 09:56:05 PM
Quote
Make sure that your bow hand is relaxed. Push your bow towards the target.
I guess it's hard for me to relax anything and not leg go of the bow. Maybe something you develop after shooting for a while.
What I do have on my side is utter determination. I'm too stubborn to give up. I'm gonna keep trying new things and do whatever it takes to get good.
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 10:07:23 PM
Post by: jgrimes on March 21, 2013, 10:17:59 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 21, 2013, 10:49:35 PM
I dont really hold my bow. The wrist sling does the holding. I guess i mean to say i dont grip the hand grip. My hand is actually sort of open. Do you other guys use this method? Im accurate, comfortable and its worked for years. Just wondering how you instructors teach.
That's good!
You should never hold the bow with your hand while shooting. As human beings we have too many temperaments from day to day. We grip things tight one day, loose the next and with complete anger and discontent the day after that. You can't expect consistency that way. Your bow hand should be thought of as a saddle. Allow the pressure of draw to mount the bow in your saddle. This way the bow actually grips you rather than the other way around. And being that the bow is not a tempermental beast it will do this consistently time after time, day after day, cold weather or hot. The bow can not get angry, it can not get lazy and it can not grip with fear or fever.
While aiming and holding the bow a wrist sling should be completely at rest. Think of it as your saddles loose seat belt. It plays absolutely no role at all until you are thrust forward (or in this case the bow is thrust forward). Let this seat belt catch the bow. Once all the violent action of the shot is complete then and only then grab the bow. The bow will not fall to the ground because the seat belt will not allow it.
The bow should be allowed to act freely. It should be allowed to saddle up of it's own free will and dismount of it's own free will. It is a machine built to only do things one way. The only thing we can hope to achieve by restricting what it was built, bred and designed for is to restrict it's success and assure our failure.
Post by: Smossy on March 21, 2013, 11:04:47 PM
Well said. That was a great way of explaining it.I dont really hold my bow. The wrist sling does the holding. I guess i mean to say i dont grip the hand grip. My hand is actually sort of open. Do you other guys use this method? Im accurate, comfortable and its worked for years. Just wondering how you instructors teach.
That's good!
You should never hold the bow with your hand while shooting. As human beings we have too many temperaments from day to day. We grip things tight one day, loose the next and with complete anger and discontent the day after that. You can't expect consistency that way. Your bow hand should be thought of as a saddle. Allow the pressure of draw to mount the bow in your saddle. This way the bow actually grips you rather than the other way around. And being that the bow is not a tempermental beast it will do this consistently time after time, day after day, cold weather or hot. The bow can not get angry, it can not get lazy and it can not grip with fear or fever.
While aiming and holding the bow a wrist sling should be completely at rest. Think of it as your saddles loose seat belt. It plays absolutely no role at all until you are thrust forward (or in this case the bow is thrust forward). Let this seat belt catch the bow. Once all the violent action of the shot is complete then and only then grab the bow. The bow will not fall to the ground because the seat belt will not allow it.
The bow should be allowed to act freely. It should be allowed to saddle up of it's own free will and dismount of it's own free will. It is a machine built to only do things one way. The only thing we can hope to achieve by restricting what it was built, bred and designed for is to restrict it's success and assure our failure.
Post by: elk247 on March 21, 2013, 11:16:37 PM
Post by: RadSav on March 22, 2013, 12:01:11 AM
Confidence is a big part of bow hunting imo. Many times ive passedup shots if i wasnt feelin it. When you do somthing thousands of times you can feel confident in the outcome. Rad-sav what bow do you shoot with now?
You could not be more right!
I was once a staff shooter and a field tester (back in the day when field testing wasn't just a bunch of self righteous promotion). There were a good number of bows I was required to take into the field to evaluate that I did not have confidence in. I believe in having a shooters "mantra" and I found my mantra got replaced with these bows to, "Oh man, Don't screw this up!" :chuckle: These days with a bow I have complete confidence in my mantra speaks very loud in my head, "I am Randy Ulmer!!!" 8)
In 2005 I retired the most ugly, magically endowed, sweetheart of a killing machine. She gave me everything she had and then another couple years after that. And really if I were to give her a little TLC and a make over she could probably give me another five-ten years. But I figure that would just be selfish on my part. Since then my bow of choice goes something like this, "Pick a card. Any card." Perhaps my standards have now been set just too high by the old girl. But, I just have not found that new companion I want to spend my golden years with.
The Bear in my avatar and the Sims DZ-32 seem to travel with me everywhere. They love to shoot, but can be a little loud and demanding. I have a Bear Dark Horse that sits in a blind with me always. But she is too much of a beauty queen to get roughed up in the woods every day during elk season. The new Bear Motive 7 is a complete Phat Cat! Smooth, quiet, vibration free, mobile, consistant and not at all demanding, but her arse just doesn't fit my saddle well. I'm having a new grip made for the Motive 7 which might bring us closer together. But the closest thing to a love connection I've experienced over the past 5 or more years is now in the Bowtech Experience. We haven't yet spent enough time together to be sure it's love and not simple teenage infatuation, but the outlook does seem promising. So far I just can not find a single thing wrong with her. Unless there is such a thing as being just too darn sexy :chuckle:
So sorry, I guess there isn't a clear way of me answering your question. Maybe the day before my spring bear hunt I can give you a definite answer. :dunno:
Post by: elk247 on March 22, 2013, 12:29:12 AM
Post by: shredder4286 on March 22, 2013, 09:01:31 AM
Quote
http://archeryreport.com/2011/02/properly-gripping-bow/
jgrimes- good video there. I had been going off of the instruction from here- http://www.buckmasters.com/DesktopModules/DnnForge%20-%20NewsArticles/Print.aspx?tabid=135&tabmoduleid=643&articleId=385&moduleId=658&PortalID=0 (http://www.buckmasters.com/DesktopModules/DnnForge%20-%20NewsArticles/Print.aspx?tabid=135&tabmoduleid=643&articleId=385&moduleId=658&PortalID=0) for a while, and had a hard time repeating that grip. I like how the grip in the link you posted has a natural position, not tweaking your wrist and hand to any angle.
Post by: shredder4286 on March 23, 2013, 07:22:45 PM
PM/Email sent
Post by: buckfvr on March 23, 2013, 07:31:25 PM
Did you get your draw length changed ??
Post by: buckfvr on March 23, 2013, 07:39:51 PM
I dont really hold my bow. The wrist sling does the holding. I guess i mean to say i dont grip the hand grip. My hand is actually sort of open. Do you other guys use this method? Im accurate, comfortable and its worked for years. Just wondering how you instructors teach.
That's good!
You should never hold the bow with your hand while shooting. As human beings we have too many temperaments from day to day. We grip things tight one day, loose the next and with complete anger and discontent the day after that. You can't expect consistency that way. Your bow hand should be thought of as a saddle. Allow the pressure of draw to mount the bow in your saddle. This way the bow actually grips you rather than the other way around. And being that the bow is not a tempermental beast it will do this consistently time after time, day after day, cold weather or hot. The bow can not get angry, it can not get lazy and it can not grip with fear or fever.
While aiming and holding the bow a wrist sling should be completely at rest. Think of it as your saddles loose seat belt. It plays absolutely no role at all until you are thrust forward (or in this case the bow is thrust forward). Let this seat belt catch the bow. Once all the violent action of the shot is complete then and only then grab the bow. The bow will not fall to the ground because the seat belt will not allow it.
The bow should be allowed to act freely. It should be allowed to saddle up of it's own free will and dismount of it's own free will. It is a machine built to only do things one way. The only thing we can hope to achieve by restricting what it was built, bred and designed for is to restrict it's success and assure our failure.
Wont hurt to have a light weight fleece glove on that saddle either.....
Post by: shredder4286 on March 23, 2013, 11:13:10 PM
Quote
QuoteQuoteDid you get your draw length changed ??
Yep. It's at 28 1/2" now.
Post by: hunt4 on March 24, 2013, 10:33:47 AM
Finding the ideal Grip
The Ideal Grip
By Beretta 16
One of the common problems archers have is torquing their bow. Torquing a bow can lead to many problems ranging from missed shots, bad tuning, and inconsistencies in form. Like most things in archery, consistency is everything in your grip.
To get a proper, consistent grip you want the bow to rest on the pad of your thumb, not in the groove of your hand. The pad of your thumb has fewer tendons and allows you to have your bow grip placed in the same position every time. Your hand should be as close to the shelf of your bow as comfort allows.
Ideally when shooting, your bow should be aligned vertically. With the grip on the pad of your thumb, your fingers should be curled naturally at a 45-degree angle to the riser. Check the picture below. By not having your fingers wrapped around the bow, you are able to shoot without having your fingers jerking the bow after the release, sending the arrow off path.
If you find yourself grabbing for the bow after the shot, use a wrist-strap or finger-sling to prevent the bow from leaving your hand.
Here is a picture of how your grip should look. Notice that the hand is relaxed and how the finger tips naturally curl in front of the bow.
Finding the perfect hand position takes time. Experiment and follow these basic guidelines and you will be on your way to higher scores.
Post by: sakoshooter on March 24, 2013, 11:43:54 AM
Post by: JJD on March 25, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
Post by: PA BEN on March 27, 2013, 05:53:08 AM
http://www.whitetailplus.com/ (http://www.whitetailplus.com/) :tup:
Post by: shredder4286 on March 27, 2013, 07:37:53 PM
JJD- I sent RADSAV some pics of me at full draw and he did an evaluation, so I'll just leave it at that. If I put pics on here, I'd probably get 27 different tips and just end up confused.