Post by: Max the dog on March 23, 2013, 08:04:28 AM
Thank in advance
Post by: Bob33 on March 23, 2013, 08:14:59 AM
Post by: washelkhunter on March 23, 2013, 08:25:15 AM
Post by: Max the dog on March 23, 2013, 08:44:03 AM
Post by: Bob33 on March 23, 2013, 08:56:24 AM
Post by: bod on March 23, 2013, 10:27:06 AM
Post by: snowpack on March 23, 2013, 10:34:16 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 23, 2013, 10:35:50 AM
Washingtonelkhunter you are a genius
I know him. Let's just say he's working toward his genius status! :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 23, 2013, 10:37:21 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2013, 10:40:52 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
It is not a violation of the waste laws because you have no legal avenue to retrieve the animal. Same as if you shoot it and it jumps the fence onto property where the landowner won't allow retrieval. You have no legal means of retrieving it, so unless it can be shown that you acted recklessly there is no waste violation.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 23, 2013, 10:41:50 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
It is not a violation of the waste laws because you have no legal avenue to retrieve the animal. Same as if you shoot it and it jumps the fence onto property where the landowner won't allow retrieval. You have no legal means of retrieving it, so unless it can be shown that you acted recklessly there is no waste violation.
OK, well I'm going to call, regardless. Thanks for the clarification.
Post by: JLS on March 23, 2013, 10:50:00 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
It is not a violation of the waste laws because you have no legal avenue to retrieve the animal. Same as if you shoot it and it jumps the fence onto property where the landowner won't allow retrieval. You have no legal means of retrieving it, so unless it can be shown that you acted recklessly there is no waste violation.
OK, well I'm going to call, regardless. Thanks for the clarification.
I'd call too.
Post by: lokidog on March 23, 2013, 10:51:31 AM
I guess Parks would be different. Kind of stupid though. :twocents:
Post by: snowpack on March 23, 2013, 10:52:52 AM
The rangers used to come out and escort, but now people tell me they say they aren't allowed to. But they have a new superintendent, so might give it a try.
Post by: bigtex on March 23, 2013, 11:01:17 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
Because of the jurisdiction of Olympic (and Rainier) WDFW Officers (and other state/local LEOs) do not have authority within the park, state courts don't as well. The individual would be violating federal law for recovering the animal but would NOT be liable for wastage.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 23, 2013, 11:04:04 AM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
Because of the jurisdiction of Olympic (and Rainier) WDFW Officers (and other state/local LEOs) do not have authority within the park, state courts don't as well. The individual would be violating federal law for recovering the animal but would NOT be liable for wastage.
Thanks BT. How stupid is that?
Post by: bigtex on March 23, 2013, 11:06:46 AM
Under federal law you would not be liable for wastage because it is illegal to remove wildlife, plants, etc from a park.
Now obviously there is a ethical issue of are the LE Rangers going to be 100% black and white with the law, or will they help you out.
Ultimately it is up to the Park Superintendent who is the equivalent of a Mayor. They decide which laws they want their LE Rangers to have no discretion towards, and which ones they can look the other way. So if the Superintendent tells their LE Rangers to let it sit and waste, well that is what is going to happen.
Superintendents are a mixed bag, you can have one that lets their LE Rangers do the "right thing" and others that want them to do what the law says. Big transition period when a new superintendent comes in.
Post by: asl20bball on March 25, 2013, 03:27:46 PM
I will say this... you are highly UNLIKELY to find a Park Ranger that will allow you to retrieve it. They're mainly a bunch of hippies that have no moral guidance when it comes to animal waste.
What happens in the park stays in the park (that goes both ways I guess) :chuckle: :bash:
Post by: EDT on March 25, 2013, 08:38:18 PM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
I Agree with Pianoman.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2013, 08:43:36 PM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
They tried to enact a no retrieve policy in 2009 for the ONP, but I believe that was struck down. Don't just take a Parkie's word for it. Make them show it to you in hard copy.
Post by: billythekidrock on March 25, 2013, 08:48:22 PM
I was nearly faced with this exact dilema last season...
I will say this... you are highly UNLIKELY to find a Park Ranger that will allow you to retrieve it. They're mainly a bunch of hippies that have no moral guidance when it comes to animal waste.
What happens in the park stays in the park (that goes both ways I guess) :chuckle: :bash:
Not sure where you are talking about, but in the Quinault/Matheny/Clearwater areas of the ONP they can be found pretty easily and are pretty reasonable. They don't always have the best attitudes about hunters and hunting, but will usually make an effort to allow retrieval.
Post by: Bob33 on March 25, 2013, 08:56:22 PM
The park has a no retrieve policy. So it goes to waste or you get cited if you go after it.
And, if you waste it, you're also breaking the laws of WA. I would make a phone call to the local warden. I certainly wouldn't just throw up my hands and give up with an elk on the ground 100 yards past the boundary. my :twocents:
It is not a violation of the waste laws because you have no legal avenue to retrieve the animal. Same as if you shoot it and it jumps the fence onto property where the landowner won't allow retrieval. You have no legal means of retrieving it, so unless it can be shown that you acted recklessly there is no waste violation.
JLS is exactly right.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.170 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.170)
To be guilty of waste, the waste must be "reckless": (b) The person recklessly allows such fish, shellfish, or wildlife to be wasted.
If you not legally able to retrieve the game, it would be difficult to prove reckless waste.
The situation with private (non federal) land is slightly different as of last June. The laws regarding trespass now include a provision about retrieving game.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.435 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.15.435)
(2) In any prosecution under this section, it is a defense that:
(d) The actor, after making all reasonable attempts to contact the owner of the premises, retrieved the hunted wildlife for the sole purpose of avoiding a violation of the prohibition on the waste of fish and wildlife as provided in RCW 77.15.170. The defense in this subsection only applies to the retrieval of hunted wildlife and not to the actual act of hunting itself.
Post by: dr.derek on March 25, 2013, 08:58:49 PM
Post by: JLS on March 25, 2013, 09:54:27 PM
I was nearly faced with this exact dilema last season...
I will say this... you are highly UNLIKELY to find a Park Ranger that will allow you to retrieve it. They're mainly a bunch of hippies that have no moral guidance when it comes to animal waste.
What happens in the park stays in the park (that goes both ways I guess) :chuckle: :bash:
Not sure where you are talking about, but in the Quinault/Matheny/Clearwater areas of the ONP they can be found pretty easily and are pretty reasonable. They don't always have the best attitudes about hunters and hunting, but will usually make an effort to allow retrieval.
I'm sure the hunter's attitude plays a significant role in this negotiation too.
Post by: ouchfoss on March 25, 2013, 10:25:36 PM
If you plan to hunt near a park boundary area, I would go and talk to a local Ranger about what their rules are. 2008 you could retrieve if it was found, early 2009 they would let it rot, late 2009 they went back to possible retrieve and then 2011 it went back to let it rot.
Post by: ouchfoss on March 25, 2013, 10:34:30 PM
Post by: HoofsandWings on March 26, 2013, 11:40:20 AM
If there is no evidence, you could get into trouble.
Post by: sirmissalot on March 26, 2013, 11:54:13 AM
Post by: asl20bball on March 26, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: snowpack on March 26, 2013, 12:11:19 PM
Sounds like others' experiences are positive with the ONP Rangers....that's good to hear considering what my second-hand impressions have been.Every one of the ONP LE rangers I've dealt with have always been really cool--calm, professional and helpful. They have even said where they see animals outside of the park. Most I've talked to, say they would prefer that they could help a little more for people to retrieve game, but were instructed from above not too. But also, as I mentioned earlier they have a new superintendent since they said it was a no retrieve policy. This last year they had a few rangers working the park boundaries on opening day elk season on some of the popular trails.
Post by: Roperfive88 on March 26, 2013, 12:59:45 PM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 26, 2013, 01:17:02 PM
How about if you can't kill it with one shot and you are right next to the park don't shoot it. Every one is talking about not wasting the animal, and ethics. So its unethical to take a shot at an animal next to a National park unless you shoot well enough to be confident you can take the animal in one shoot. This is somthing that most hunters can't garuntee, my self included. :twocents:
Well, I guess we're all really honored to have such an ethical crack shot in our midst. :tup: Nice intro to the site. :hello:
Post by: washelkhunter on March 26, 2013, 02:07:02 PM
Post by: bigtex on March 26, 2013, 02:07:39 PM
Some posters are right in that there is a new superintendent at Olympic. Depending how involved they are they can really dictate how much discretion Rangers have. And if the superintendent says no retrieval then that is the policy until further notice.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 26, 2013, 02:12:16 PM
P-man is pretty sharp; esp: for being such a round person, he avoids this dilemma by hunting in the park. Afterall, thats where all the critters are. He shoots em then herds em outside the boundary. Its a win-win for all. :tup:
I only shoots 'em 'round the edges though, so I can still herd 'em. Them kill shots is fer the beginners! :tup:
Post by: washelkhunter on March 26, 2013, 02:57:32 PM
P-man is pretty sharp; esp: for being such a round person, he avoids this dilemma by hunting in the park. Afterall, thats where all the critters are. He shoots em then herds em outside the boundary. Its a win-win for all. :tup:
I only shoots 'em 'round the edges though, so I can still herd 'em. Them kill shots is fer the beginners! :tup:
Its no mystery why you are a Master Hunter to be sure..... :tung: