Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 07:51:50 PM
Post by: buckfvr on March 26, 2013, 07:58:53 PM
Post by: rtspring on March 26, 2013, 07:59:11 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2013, 08:04:08 PM
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 08:15:25 PM
Wait till wolves are statewide.... :chuckle: :bdid:
They all ready are, people just don't realize it yet. Why do you think WDFW are now talking about the impacts on the game herds, they know it's too late.
Post by: chukarchaser on March 26, 2013, 08:25:38 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 08:42:15 PM
Up Mission Ridge, mission creek, or Pitcher? I am assuming domestic cow. Sorry to hear this.He was in the field and didn't have time for specifics other than it is a bovine.
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 09:08:19 PM
Hopefully you can let us know which of their prepared excuses they use to discredit this one.........
Yeah, cant wait to hear the "real" story on this... :bash:
Post by: snowpack on March 26, 2013, 09:18:59 PM
Hopefully you can let us know which of their prepared excuses they use to discredit this one.........
Yeah, cant wait to hear the "real" story on this... :bash:
They'll claim cougars and hybirds.....
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 09:20:01 PM
I don't think so this time.Hopefully you can let us know which of their prepared excuses they use to discredit this one.........
Yeah, cant wait to hear the "real" story on this... :bash:
They'll claim cougars and hybirds.....
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 09:22:25 PM
I don't think so this time.Hopefully you can let us know which of their prepared excuses they use to discredit this one.........
Yeah, cant wait to hear the "real" story on this... :bash:
They'll claim cougars and hybirds.....
The same line can only be used so many times before people get sick of hearing it. Im hoping that this happens sooner rather than later.
Post by: jrebel on March 26, 2013, 09:23:43 PM
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 09:24:27 PM
Agreed, I don't think they will be able to use any excuse.I don't think so this time.Hopefully you can let us know which of their prepared excuses they use to discredit this one.........
Yeah, cant wait to hear the "real" story on this... :bash:
They'll claim cougars and hybirds.....
The same line can only be used so many times before people get sick of hearing it. Im hoping that this happens sooner rather than later.
Post by: Scottystyle on March 26, 2013, 09:25:04 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 26, 2013, 09:25:25 PM
Post by: woodywsu on March 26, 2013, 09:28:07 PM
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 09:28:24 PM
It's out of control now. A prime example of what happens when man meddles with nature. Bring a predator into a place where food is plentiful and tell you that you can't shoot them. Wolves less than 2 miles from my house--Who'da thunkit?
That reasoning sounds so profound compared to the party line we are being told...are you a scientist by any chance? :chuckle:
Amazing that so many people, except those making the decisions, can see this.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 26, 2013, 09:32:03 PM
Where abouts is this?
First canyon to the right as you go up Squilchuck towards Mission Ridge Ski Area. Just up the road from where Methow Street joins Squilchuck Road. I chukhar hunted Pitcher Canyon 30 years ago. Now it's full of houses....
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 09:34:16 PM
Post by: Scottystyle on March 26, 2013, 09:34:34 PM
Post by: Jingles on March 26, 2013, 09:35:26 PM
Reason being if WDFW is saying all these unexplained killings and sightings are hybrids and they are not protected what is to stop a coyote hunter from eliminating a hybrid while out coyote hunting SSS
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 09:36:03 PM
Some of you act like the WDFW is surprised by stuff like this happening. It's no surprise, this is what wolves do. They have to eat. It's not a surprise to us, it's not a surprise to the state, and not to the feds either. But to think that suddenly just because a few animals are being killed, that they're going to modify the wolf plan, to me is wishful thinking. That wolves will kill a few cows should be a known factor. And killing the occasional dog, or course they will, they are just a bigger dog, and dogs fight, that's normal. It's just funny to me how everyone seems so shocked when dead animals are found that were killed by wolves. Did we think the wolves were going to live in this state and not kill anything? What did we think they were going to eat- mice, rabbits, and chipmunks?
Pretty well sums it up I think
I'll go one step further, many folks were counting on the wolves eating cattle thus ending the open range grazing.
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 09:36:56 PM
Beef cow and fetus killed by wolves in mission unit. Wdfw was hesitant to blame wolves for kill. While wdfw was performing necropsy on cow, two wolves appeared on ridge above them. More to come on this. Good reminder to call and express your opinion to state reps
Thats a whole lot better then "by the time we got to the cow their was nothing left except maggots or hip and hide" Another WDFW F-up realized too late.
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 09:38:36 PM
Question that I'm pretty sure I know the answer to but the Hybrids are NOT protected species right? can anyone tell me a way to differentiate between a hybrid and a purebred Wolf?
Reason being if WDFW is saying all these unexplained killings and sightings are hybrids and they are not protected what is to stop a coyote hunter from eliminating a hybrid while out coyote hunting SSS
The WDFW is NOT saying that. Not for any wolves on the east side of the state. I could see them saying that if it were a sighting here on the westside, where there are no confirmed wolf packs. But why would they say it for over there?
There was just an article in the Wenatchee World, today I believe, with a WDFW biologist talking about the wolves near Wenatchee. They're not denying it. Why do people keep saying that? ???
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2013, 09:39:12 PM
Fortunately Commissioner Douvia insisted on an 18 BP's cap so that if we have 18 BP's in any one year wolf delisted can begin. Douvia also insisted on a 75% population threshold for ungulate populations. If wolf impacts cause ungulate herds to drop below 75%, wolf control can happen.
We need to try and retain Douvia on the Commission. :twocents:
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 09:40:00 PM
Beef cow and fetus killed by wolves in mission unit. Wdfw was hesitant to blame wolves for kill. While wdfw was performing necropsy on cow, two wolves appeared on ridge above them. More to come on this. Good reminder to call and express your opinion to state reps
Thats a whole lot better then "by the time we got to the cow their was nothing left except maggots or hip and hide" Another WDFW F-up realized too late.
At least WDFW have aknowledge the cow had a calf this time, quite sure they don't want to be stupid twice................................
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 09:40:18 PM
Some of you act like the WDFW is surprised by stuff like this happening. It's no surprise, this is what wolves do. They have to eat. It's not a surprise to us, it's not a surprise to the state, and not to the feds either. But to think that suddenly just because a few animals are being killed, that they're going to modify the wolf plan, to me is wishful thinking. That wolves will kill a few cows should be a known factor. And killing the occasional dog, or course they will, they are just a bigger dog, and dogs fight, that's normal. It's just funny to me how everyone seems so shocked when dead animals are found that were killed by wolves. Did we think the wolves were going to live in this state and not kill anything? What did we think they were going to eat- mice, rabbits, and chipmunks?
Pretty well sums it up I think
I'll go one step further, many folks were counting on the wolves eating cattle thus ending the open range grazing.
I dont think that many think that WDFW are surpised that this is happening. They know that it is going to happen and is happening but continue to deny it to the public. This denial is going to be more and more difficult the more press that it gets (Your thread had been a great resource for me to use against my prowolf friends by the way). I also dont think that they are going to change their plan, but I woudl like to see public sentiment turn away from these animals.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 26, 2013, 09:42:05 PM
It's out of control now. A prime example of what happens when man meddles with nature. Bring a predator into a place where food is plentiful and tell you that you can't shoot them. Wolves less than 2 miles from my house--Who'da thunkit?
That reasoning sounds so profound compared to the party line we are being told...are you a scientist by any chance? :chuckle:
No, just a 40 year resident of Wenatchee. When I moved here I was on the last street to the South of the Wenatchee City Limits. Now my neighborhood wants to be annexed into the city because we are an "island of county property". >:(
Post by: mkcj on March 26, 2013, 09:42:41 PM
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 09:42:47 PM
It's out of control now. A prime example of what happens when man meddles with nature. Bring a predator into a place where food is plentiful and tell you that you can't shoot them. Wolves less than 2 miles from my house--Who'da thunkit?
That reasoning sounds so profound compared to the party line we are being told...are you a scientist by any chance? :chuckle:
No, just a 40 year resident of Wenatchee. When I moved here I was on the last street to the South of the Wenatchee City Limits. Now my neighborhood wants to be annexed into the city because we are an "island of county property". >:(
I wish you luck in that fight!
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 09:44:08 PM
I just hope this rancher doesn't suffer extended losses like McIrvin's suffered. Currently the WDFW has confirmed numerous packs but I think only 5 BP's, that means we still need 10 more BP's and then the 3 year countdown begins in which they successfully must breed 3 years in a row to begin the delisting process. If the wolf population continues to double during that 3 years we could have 30-55 BP's by the time we can delist according to the wolf plan. Can you imagine the impacts!
Fortunately Commissioner Douvia insisted on an 18 BP's cap so that if we have 18 BP's in any one year wolf delisted can begin. Douvia also insisted on a 75% population threshold for ungulate populations. If wolf impacts cause ungulate herds to drop below 75%, wolf control can happen.
We need to try and retain Douvia on the Commission. :twocents:
"I just hope this rancher doesn't suffer extended losses like McIrvin's suffered." Who are you trying to kid BP, WDFW have the cry me another tear down pat now. This will hit the westside and the same chit will start all over again.
Post by: snowpack on March 26, 2013, 09:45:59 PM
Post by: Dan-o on March 26, 2013, 09:46:07 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 26, 2013, 09:46:12 PM
Beef cow and fetus killed by wolves in mission unit. Wdfw was hesitant to blame wolves for kill. While wdfw was performing necropsy on cow, two wolves appeared on ridge above them. More to come on this. Good reminder to call and express your opinion to state reps
Are they sure it wasn't coyotes, dogs, or hybrids? :chuckle:
It's out of control now. A prime example of what happens when man meddles with nature. Bring a predator into a place where food is plentiful and tell you that you can't shoot them. Wolves less than 2 miles from my house--Who'da thunkit?
That reasoning sounds so profound compared to the party line we are being told...are you a scientist by any chance? :chuckle:
No, just a 40 year resident of Wenatchee. When I moved here I was on the last street to the South of the Wenatchee City Limits. Now my neighborhood wants to be annexed into the city because we are an "island of county property". >:(
Wolves were 2 miles from my home two years ago and attacked a neighbor's German Shephards, WDFW called me up and claimed it was just hybrids, dogs, or coyotes. :bash:
Post by: woodywsu on March 26, 2013, 09:46:37 PM
Post by: actionshooter on March 26, 2013, 09:47:41 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 26, 2013, 09:55:07 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 26, 2013, 09:59:15 PM
This should be no surprise to anyone. Everyone knew these things would happen, us, WDFW the pro-wolf idiots. It never mattered to those who pushed this through.
My neighbor's wife called me a couple of hours ago to tell me about the wolves in Pitcher Canyon. She said that they are such pretty animals, and so what if they eat a few deer. I asked her what she thought they would be eating after all the deer are gone. "Well, yeah--" was all she could say. But then, she did vote for Obama... :bash:
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 09:59:30 PM
Some of you act like the WDFW is surprised by stuff like this happening. It's no surprise, this is what wolves do. They have to eat. It's not a surprise to us, it's not a surprise to the state, and not to the feds either. But to think that suddenly just because a few animals are being killed, that they're going to modify the wolf plan, to me is wishful thinking. That wolves will kill a few cows should be a known factor. And killing the occasional dog, or course they will, they are just a bigger dog, and dogs fight, that's normal. It's just funny to me how everyone seems so shocked when dead animals are found that were killed by wolves. Did we think the wolves were going to live in this state and not kill anything? What did we think they were going to eat- mice, rabbits, and chipmunks?Nobody is surprised, the problem is its happening more frequently than WDFW's estimates showed, resulting in far higher $$$$ output than planned for.
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 10:23:10 PM
Some of you act like the WDFW is surprised by stuff like this happening. It's no surprise, this is what wolves do. They have to eat. It's not a surprise to us, it's not a surprise to the state, and not to the feds either. But to think that suddenly just because a few animals are being killed, that they're going to modify the wolf plan, to me is wishful thinking. That wolves will kill a few cows should be a known factor. And killing the occasional dog, or course they will, they are just a bigger dog, and dogs fight, that's normal. It's just funny to me how everyone seems so shocked when dead animals are found that were killed by wolves. Did we think the wolves were going to live in this state and not kill anything? What did we think they were going to eat- mice, rabbits, and chipmunks?Nobody is surprised, the problem is its happening more frequently than WDFW's estimates showed, resulting in far higher $$$$ output than planned for.
You are right partly HP, WDFW have known for along time what would happen, and they already have an answer for you...>>>>
But this time it will be a bit hard for them to say it was nothing but maggots, or hide and hip bone<<<<<<<<
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 10:26:45 PM
Thats why I said "its happening more frequently than their estimates showed" and not "its happening more frequently than they thought." ;)Some of you act like the WDFW is surprised by stuff like this happening. It's no surprise, this is what wolves do. They have to eat. It's not a surprise to us, it's not a surprise to the state, and not to the feds either. But to think that suddenly just because a few animals are being killed, that they're going to modify the wolf plan, to me is wishful thinking. That wolves will kill a few cows should be a known factor. And killing the occasional dog, or course they will, they are just a bigger dog, and dogs fight, that's normal. It's just funny to me how everyone seems so shocked when dead animals are found that were killed by wolves. Did we think the wolves were going to live in this state and not kill anything? What did we think they were going to eat- mice, rabbits, and chipmunks?Nobody is surprised, the problem is its happening more frequently than WDFW's estimates showed, resulting in far higher $$$$ output than planned for.
You are right partly HP, WDFW have known for along time what would happen, and they already have an aswer for you...>>>>
Post by: grundy53 on March 26, 2013, 10:27:30 PM
sent from my typewriter
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 10:33:10 PM
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 10:33:18 PM
>:(>:(>:(
sent from my typewriter
:yeah:
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 10:35:44 PM
Maybe Ranker will come rescue them before they end up like the Wedge pack. :mgun:
the wedge pack is still there
Post by: jackelope on March 26, 2013, 10:40:43 PM
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 10:43:17 PM
More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
Post by: jackelope on March 26, 2013, 10:44:43 PM
More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
Wolves.
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 10:45:10 PM
I dont think anyone has said it wasn't wolves. :dunno:More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
Post by: woodywsu on March 26, 2013, 10:48:48 PM
However, wolves will not bite the hair off the tail of a dead cow. Here's your sign wdfw
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 10:51:28 PM
I dont think anyone has said it wasn't wolves. :dunno:More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
I got that from this:
:o. Warden already denied. Said it wasn't wolf. Now trapper is there this week to get collar on him. Idiots. That wolf will be in a trap!!! And not killed!!!! :bdid:
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 10:59:15 PM
I did not see Scotts post or that pic, thanks for the heads up. :tup:I dont think anyone has said it wasn't wolves. :dunno:More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
I got that from this::o. Warden already denied. Said it wasn't wolf. Now trapper is there this week to get collar on him. Idiots. That wolf will be in a trap!!! And not killed!!!! :bdid:
Post by: mulehunter on March 26, 2013, 11:03:42 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:05:31 PM
I'd wait and see what the experts have to say after the investigation is over, before calling someone an idiot.
Every single dead animal out there is not a wolf kill.
Post by: snowpack on March 26, 2013, 11:10:24 PM
Well, how do we know for sure it was a wolf kill? Things can die for other reasons and then wolves can feed on the dead animal.
I'd wait and see what the experts have to say after the investigation is over, before calling someone an idiot.
Every single dead animal out there is not a wolf kill.
Didn't the rancher already say it was wolf? What more of an expert could there be. In a situation like this, a rancher carries far more clout with me than the WDFW could ever hope to.
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 11:12:47 PM
Well, how do we know for sure it was a wolf kill? Things can die for other reasons and then wolves can feed on the dead animal.
What is the difference?
A wolf happening upon a dead cow and feeding to me is the same as a wolf killing a cow, one will lead to the other.
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:16:55 PM
Well, how do we know for sure it was a wolf kill? Things can die for other reasons and then wolves can feed on the dead animal.
I'd wait and see what the experts have to say after the investigation is over, before calling someone an idiot.
Every single dead animal out there is not a wolf kill.
Didn't the rancher already say it was wolf? What more of an expert could there be. In a situation like this, a rancher carries far more clout with me than the WDFW could ever hope to.
I don't know. I wasn't there. :dunno:
Post by: winshooter88 on March 26, 2013, 11:18:06 PM
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 11:21:44 PM
Well, how do we know for sure it was a wolf kill? Things can die for other reasons and then wolves can feed on the dead animal.
I'd wait and see what the experts have to say after the investigation is over, before calling someone an idiot.
Every single dead animal out there is not a wolf kill.
I think we have already heard what the experts had to say :chuckle: That would be WDFW who seem to think they have fooled everyone-oh and there's a coulple still on W-H, how do you spell stupid with a W?
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:22:42 PM
Quote
A wolf happening upon a dead cow and feeding to me is the same as a wolf killing a cow, one will lead to the other.
Not sure I get your point. If a cow dies of natural causes, it's not a wolf kill. Apparently a "warden" said it wasn't a wolf kill. Whether it is or isn't, will probably make a difference as to whether the rancher gets reimbursed by the state, no?
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 11:24:16 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 11:26:19 PM
once the light clicks on in a K9's brain "oh new food source", good luck turning it off
Post by: winshooter88 on March 26, 2013, 11:27:54 PM
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:29:22 PM
Bobcat, the way you stick up for the WDFW on the wolf issue is commendable. I only hope you will feel the same way once wolves make it over to where you live and hunt. And make no mistake they will make it over there.
I hunt the east side too. Just hunted the Pogue unit last November. And, at least in this case, I'm not "sticking up" for anyone. Just pointing out that the facts aren't in on this yet. If someone is claiming it wasn't a wolf kill, why call him an idiot at this point? That's all I was trying to say.
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:32:24 PM
I think he means that once wolves get a taste for beef they will continue to eat beef, especially if it is easier to get than elk or deer. At least that is what the WDFW said about the Wedge pack.
Okay, and who in the world would ever think that wolves, with cattle being in the same areas, would never get a taste for beef?
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 11:35:41 PM
I think he means that once wolves get a taste for beef they will continue to eat beef, especially if it is easier to get than elk or deer. At least that is what the WDFW said about the Wedge pack.
Okay, and who in the world would ever think that wolves, with cattle being in the same areas, would never get a taste for beef?
You're going to have to type really slow, because I'm not sure if your being flippant or really serious :dunno:
Post by: bobcat on March 26, 2013, 11:38:52 PM
Post by: winshooter88 on March 26, 2013, 11:40:10 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 11:42:47 PM
Wolves are going to eat cattle, period. :DOH:
On that we agree, the rest is schematics.
You either have no wolves, or you have no cows.
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 26, 2013, 11:44:17 PM
The WDFW in various meeting has said that they either hope or believe that if prey is plentiful wolves won't want to take domestic animals. They made the comment that once the Wedge pack got the taste of beef that the only way to stop them was to eliminate them. Why would it be any different in other parts of the state? Prey in the Wenatchee area is plentiful so why would wolves need to go after cattle, because they are easier to kill.
Low hanging fruit so to speak.
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 11:44:47 PM
Or semantics ;)Wolves are going to eat cattle, period. :DOH:
On that we agree, the rest is schematics.
Post by: winshooter88 on March 26, 2013, 11:48:01 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 26, 2013, 11:49:02 PM
Post by: KFhunter on March 26, 2013, 11:49:37 PM
Or semantics ;)Wolves are going to eat cattle, period. :DOH:
On that we agree, the rest is schematics.
That too, schamatics semantics. Both apply :tung:
Post by: huntnphool on March 26, 2013, 11:50:49 PM
Just flippin ya chit man :chuckle:Or semantics ;)Wolves are going to eat cattle, period. :DOH:
On that we agree, the rest is schematics.
That too, schamatics semantics. Both apply :tung:
Post by: wolfbait on March 26, 2013, 11:52:24 PM
The WDFW in various meeting has said that they either hope or believe that if prey is plentiful wolves won't want to take domestic animals. They made the comment that once the Wedge pack got the taste of beef that the only way to stop them was to eliminate them. Why would it be any different in other parts of the state? Prey in the Wenatchee area is plentiful so why would wolves need to go after cattle, because they are easier to kill.
And just like everywhere else these wolves have lived, when prey gets low wolves eat what ever is handy, keep your gun close and you kids closer. :tup:
Post by: NoImpactNoIdea on March 27, 2013, 06:47:45 AM
I did not see Scotts post or that pic, thanks for the heads up. :tup:I dont think anyone has said it wasn't wolves. :dunno:More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
I got that from this::o. Warden already denied. Said it wasn't wolf. Now trapper is there this week to get collar on him. Idiots. That wolf will be in a trap!!! And not killed!!!! :bdid:
You had me second questing myself as to whether or not I had seen it!
Post by: Ridgerunner on March 27, 2013, 07:06:07 AM
Post by: jstone on March 27, 2013, 07:07:05 AM
Post by: Sawbuck on March 27, 2013, 07:08:38 AM
Wish they would get a taste for prowolf guys. Just wait until we are not talking about a ranchers cow being killed, and its somebody's kid. These wolves are healthy, if they get disease or start starving this is going to get much worse. And the sad thing is nothing will be done until the government feels it in the pocket book and that won't be until all the game is gone.I think he means that once wolves get a taste for beef they will continue to eat beef, especially if it is easier to get than elk or deer. At least that is what the WDFW said about the Wedge pack.
Okay, and who in the world would ever think that wolves, with cattle being in the same areas, would never get a taste for beef?
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 07:16:31 AM
I dont think anyone has said it wasn't wolves. :dunno:More...the wolves looking at the guys at the site of the cow kill.
Wolves watching them as they investigate to see if it was wolves or not...and they say it wasnt! What did they determine to be the animal that killed this cow?
I got that from this::o. Warden already denied. Said it wasn't wolf. Now trapper is there this week to get collar on him. Idiots. That wolf will be in a trap!!! And not killed!!!! :bdid:
I think that Scott added that after the fact. It definitely wasn't there when I posted. Anyway...can a warden really be the guy who determines whether or not it was a wolf kill? A LEO guy? Seems more like a job for a biologist.
Post by: muzbuster on March 27, 2013, 07:21:51 AM
Beef cow and fetus killed by wolves in mission unit. Wdfw was hesitant to blame wolves for kill. While wdfw was performing necropsy on cow, two wolves appeared on ridge above them. More to come on this. Good reminder to call and express your opinion to state repsIm sure its the infamous "hybred", it couldnt possibly be a wolf :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :mor:
SSS!!!!! :mgun:
Post by: bobcat on March 27, 2013, 07:40:27 AM
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
Post by: jrebel on March 27, 2013, 07:48:51 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 27, 2013, 07:54:26 AM
I just hope this rancher doesn't suffer extended losses like McIrvin's suffered. Currently the WDFW has confirmed numerous packs but I think only 5 BP's, that means we still need 10 more BP's and then the 3 year countdown begins in which they successfully must breed 3 years in a row to begin the delisting process. If the wolf population continues to double during that 3 years we could have 30-55 BP's by the time we can delist according to the wolf plan. Can you imagine the impacts!
Fortunately Commissioner Douvia insisted on an 18 BP's cap so that if we have 18 BP's in any one year wolf delisted can begin. Douvia also insisted on a 75% population threshold for ungulate populations. If wolf impacts cause ungulate herds to drop below 75%, wolf control can happen.
We need to try and retain Douvia on the Commission. :twocents:
Yeah, because if he suffers losses like McIrvine, they'll blame it on him, too. The cute cuddly wolves are just doing what wolves do, after all. :bash: :bash: :bash:
The timing is good (except for the rancher) for this to happen while the Senate is considering the appointments to the commission. I hope this helps send the message even more clearly.
Post by: uplandhunter870 on March 27, 2013, 07:56:27 AM
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
Exactly! wolves were a bad idea in Yellowstone a bad idea in ID, MT and WY. Theres a reason these SOB's were hunted to practically being extinct by our great grand fathers they are bad news period. theres a pretty simple law in nature and thats: Adapt or Die. wolves never adapted so they died, why cant we stop meddling in nature. before you jump on me and say well we manage game, yeah we do but in an era of human management we are the wolves replacements there is no room for two apex predators
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 08:00:16 AM
Mulehunter, wolves are a federally protected endangered species, cougars are not. Need I say more?
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
I already know it, Thousands of Documents and Document since 1900's and still same story every where, Warden is just being puss for not shoot it... Whatever.
The warden was following the law, Scott. You can't fault the guy for not shooting a federally protected endangered species. Hopefully the new bill passes and the ranchers and farmers can soon shoot to protect their livestock, but that's not happening at this point. I appreciate your passion on this topic, but give the guy a break. He didn't shoot the wolf because it's really really illegal to do so at this point.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 27, 2013, 08:02:04 AM
have you ever delt with a chicken killing dog? Egg sucker?
once the light clicks on in a K9's brain "oh new food source", good luck turning it off
Yep... 30 years ago, when I had chickens, I came home from work one day to find chicken parts all over my back yard. I poured anti-freeze on the pieces of chicken and left them there. A few days later I heard the hag across the street yelling to another neighbor that someone poisoned her two vicious mongrel dogs. Didn't lose any more chickens after that... :(
Post by: mulehunter on March 27, 2013, 08:07:16 AM
Mulehunter, wolves are a federally protected endangered species, cougars are not. Need I say more?
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
I already know it, Thousands of Documents and Document since 1900's and still same story every where, Warden is just being puss for not shoot it... Whatever.
The warden was following the law, Scott. You can't fault the guy for not shooting a federally protected endangered species. Hopefully the new bill passes and the ranchers and farmers can soon shoot to protect their livestock, but that's not happening at this point. I appreciate your passion on this topic, but give the guy a break. He didn't shoot the wolf because it's really really illegal to do so at this point.
I already know it, I respect him for do what he can for all of us, if I am a WARDEN, I will show you all that I am Serious business and shoot it. Its Not about money/politics BS. They just wasting everybody time.
Post by: littlemac on March 27, 2013, 08:17:10 AM
Home
Local News
LOCAL NEWS
New wolf pack — the Wenatchee Pack — confirmed in state
13 hours ago
by Web Desk
Comments (5)
SHARE THIS UPDATE
Ads by Google
Registered Nurses Wanted
Emergency Room Experience req'd Make a Difference, Join our Team
providence-nursing.jobs
Two wolves in Pitcher Canyon. The ear tag can be seen in the right ear of the wolf in the foreground. (Photo: WDFW)
SEATTLE — A new wolf pack — the Wenatchee Pack – has been confirmed in the state, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife said.
That makes 10 confirmed wolf packs in Washington state.
The new pack was confirmed just east of the Teanaway Pack. Two wolves traveling together were confirmed via a remote-camera photograph on March 24, the department said on its website.
“The Wenatchee Pack has at least two members – as confirmed by remote-camera photographs on March 24, 2013. One member of the pack is suspected to be a 1.5-year-old female that dispersed from the Teanaway Pack. The female wolf was observed in the Entiat Mountains of Chelan County on February 11, 2013. The female wolf was captured by WDFW staff in the Teanaway in September 2011 as a juvenile and ear tags (#16) were placed in both ears.
“We suspect the dispersing female from the Teanaway pack (with red ear tags) is one of the members of the Wenatchee Pack,” the department said on its website. “There has been other documented wolf activity in the area consistent with the movement patterns of a pack.”
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 08:33:33 AM
Mulehunter, wolves are a federally protected endangered species, cougars are not. Need I say more?
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
I already know it, Thousands of Documents and Document since 1900's and still same story every where, Warden is just being puss for not shoot it... Whatever.
The warden was following the law, Scott. You can't fault the guy for not shooting a federally protected endangered species. Hopefully the new bill passes and the ranchers and farmers can soon shoot to protect their livestock, but that's not happening at this point. I appreciate your passion on this topic, but give the guy a break. He didn't shoot the wolf because it's really really illegal to do so at this point.
I already know it, I respect him for do what he can for all of us, if I am a WARDEN, I will show you all that I am Serious business and shoot it. Its Not about money/politics BS. They just wasting everybody time.
It is worth it to you to go to prison? Be taken from your family?
Post by: Killmore on March 27, 2013, 08:37:50 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 08:53:52 AM
Having a dead cow is one thing, but more importantly is we have more wolves!!!
I'd say we have the same wolves in different locations. The pair likely relocated from the Teanaway pack.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 27, 2013, 09:00:05 AM
Post by: AspenBud on March 27, 2013, 09:03:41 AM
Mark my words, the timber companies will welcome them. High numbers of deer and elk are not a timber company's friend...and the timber companies have a lot of land for wolves to hang out in. They will forever spill out of those lands once here.
Post by: pianoman9701 on March 27, 2013, 09:09:38 AM
Ever see the "Angry peasant mob" scene in the old FRANKENSTEIN movie? The wolves are the monster that the liberal bunny-huggers have created, and soon they will realize what they have done. Only this time it won't be pitchforks the mob will be carrying!
The wolf huggers know exactly what they've created and are ecstatic about it. They want to end hunting and they want to end cattle ranching. There's no better way to do that than an outrageous wolf plan out of control.
Post by: whacker1 on March 27, 2013, 09:14:19 AM
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
Bobcat - I don't think you understand the issue and the research. WDFW has now put on several meetings all over the state. A few consistent messages have been shared with information learned locally as well as from Montana & Idaho. The one specifically relavant to this conversation is that once a wolf gets the taste for domestic animals they don't stop. They have said in multiple venues that 20% of the wolf population creates 80% of the problems for domestic animals. While it is illegal, I understand why he didn't shoot. But the point is that the WDFW is going to need to empower their wardens and BIO's to take action in circumstances like these, because it is going to cost the department $thousands of dollars to go back after these animals with helicopters and trappers like they had to for the Wedge pack. And WDFW does have the authority to take out animals of this nature in the Eastern 3rd of the state, but they are required to go through some proper chanels.
Post by: AspenBud on March 27, 2013, 09:23:44 AM
And WDFW does have the authority to take out animals of this nature in the Eastern 3rd of the state, but they are required to go through some proper chanels.
Question, does Chelan County fall under that eastern 3rd? Looking at the map I would think you're getting pretty close to the half way point.
Post by: whacker1 on March 27, 2013, 09:30:37 AM
And WDFW does have the authority to take out animals of this nature in the Eastern 3rd of the state, but they are required to go through some proper chanels.
Question, does Chelan County fall under that eastern 3rd? Looking at the map I would think you're getting pretty close to the half way point.
No, it is in the North Central i believe.
Post by: mulehunter on March 27, 2013, 09:41:43 AM
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 10:13:16 AM
Really? Warden in Wentachee should shoot and use the Wolf for Educational purposes. :tup: Thats is my point.....
He doesn't have that option.
Post by: mulehunter on March 27, 2013, 10:13:43 AM
The state agency has not yet determined how the Hurds’ cow died. Volson said it was apparent that the cow had been scavenged by either a coyote or a wolf. But he said late Tuesday that he will need to consult with other wildlife experts around the state before issuing a determination on the cause of death. Whatever..... :'( Dan Bio better stand up for Rancher and all of us and not be afraid of Political issues Bs.
No $$ Not even a dime..... for the rancher that lost mom and baby cow. >:( JUST like Lookout Pack did to Carlton Rancher. Whatever.
Post by: Scottystyle on March 27, 2013, 11:03:19 AM
Post by: KFhunter on March 27, 2013, 11:06:44 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=121656.0;attach=250377;image)
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 11:30:27 AM
Post by: UBA on March 27, 2013, 11:45:50 AM
The cow was found on the same ranch where pictures of two wolves were captured on a remote camera on Sunday.
“This is all happening so fast,” said Dave Volson, a wildlife biologist for the state Department of Wildlife. Earlier in the day the agency named the wolves as an official pack, now called the Wenatchee Pack.
“We don’t want to create hysteria about the wolves,” said Ross Hurd, who owns the ranch where the wolves have been seen for the last week and a half. “But we want people to know they are here and that we’re going to have to adapt to them being here.”
Volson said his office was called around noon on Tuesday by Hurd after a family member found the dead cow on his ranch up Pitcher Canyon and suspected that it had been killed by the wolves.
Two biologists and two wildlife enforcement officers went to the ranch and were conducting a necropsy on the cow when Ross Hurd looked up and saw what he first thought was a coyote about 500 yards away in a winter wheat field.
Using binoculars, the state officers were able to confirm that it was a wolf. One person in the group thought they also saw a second wolf nearby.
“It was pretty amazing,” said Volson.
Hurd fired five shots near the wolf to scare it away. But he said the animal did not leave. At one point, it moved closer to the ranchers and state officers.
“If it wasn’t a protected species I would have killed that wolf,” Hurd said in an interview today. “But as it stands, we have to find a way to co-exist with them.”
The state agency has not yet determined how the Hurds’ cow died. Volson said it was apparent that the cow had been scavenged by either a coyote or a wolf. But he said late Tuesday that he will need to consult with other wildlife experts around the state before issuing a determination on the cause of death.
However, Hurd said today that the state officers told him that the cow’s body did not have tell-tale crushing bite marks that would indicate it had been killed by a wolf.
“So I’m not going to get compensated by the state for it,” he said.
He said he put up two more remote cameras on his property to track the wolves on his ranch, which he described as being several thousand acres. The family plans to have more people out patrolling their property and watching over their livestock, which includes about 60 head of cattle, as well as horses and sheep. They will continue to fire shots to scare the wolves away from the ranch.
Volson said that the state plan for managing wolves encourages property owners to take actions to scare wolves away from livestock, including shooting guns. But he said that wolves are a federally-protected species so they may not be injured or killed.
“It makes sense to make the wolves uncomfortable in and around cattle,” he said.
The state plan, adopted in 2011, uses an approach of actively deterring wolves from coming onto private property and compensating ranchers for livestock killed by wolves. The plan also offers tips to ranchers such as waiting until calves reach 200 pounds before allowing them to graze on open range and not allowing cattle to graze near wolf dens.
According to the plan, there have been no documented attacks on people by wolves in Idaho, Montana or Wyoming since wolf recovery began in the 1980s. However, wolves have killed at least 144 dogs in those three states since 1987.
Hurd said his family plans to work closely with state biologists and enforcement officers as they try to find out more information about the new Wenatchee wolf pack.
“We’re going to do our best to figure all this out,” he said. “But, in our minds, the likelihood of more cows being killed is very high. ... The thought of that is making me lose sleep. I was wide awake last night because I didn’t know what might be going on out.”
Michelle McNiel: 664-7152
mcniel@wenatcheeworld.com
Fired 5 shots and did didnt run off...... :bash: Sounds like it didnt want to leave its kill.
Post by: boneaddict on March 27, 2013, 11:53:52 AM
Quote
According to the plan, there have been no documented attacks on people by wolves in Idaho, Montana or Wyoming since wolf recovery began in the 1980s. However, wolves have killed at least 144 dogs in those three states since 1987.Define documented and define reported.
Post by: kenjo on March 27, 2013, 12:05:13 PM
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/mar/27/state-investigating-dead-cow-near-wenatchee/ (http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2013/mar/27/state-investigating-dead-cow-near-wenatchee/)
:dunno:
Post by: Elkrunner on March 27, 2013, 12:07:50 PM
Is that a bunch of deer up the hill and to the right from the wolf?
Sure looks like it.
Post by: huntnphool on March 27, 2013, 12:17:36 PM
Post by: mulehunter on March 27, 2013, 01:00:33 PM
Owner, son, Bio, Warden, sheriff, whatever just standing right there watching 400 yds a wolf from Dead cow...AND DO NOTHING???? WTF.. I call Warden IDIOT for not grab his fking gun and shoot this MF. It shows us that He just protecting WOLVES. It proved to us....
In Pic, Why the HELL Warden order to shoot a Cougar for killing Donkey recent But NOT kill A WOLF for dead cow? Look at him.... He just fking bragging about 180 lbs Cougar with his smile face just because he get to kill it and not us as houndman that Liberals banned us out. I call this BS! He doesn't care if it was cougar that kill Donkey. But Wentachee Warden doesn't want to kill a wolf for dead cow... He is Idiot Period!
It is *censored* that Warden just standing watching wolves 400 yards from fresh cow kill and He doesn't do anything!
If I was the owner, I would show them how strong I am that I would grab my rifle and shoot this wolf to protect my Cattles in front of warden and Bio. TRUST ME.
Mulehunter I am not trying to be an pain or anything but this picture that you are so proud of saying "this Warden" and that he is some how involved with the case in Wentachee. First off he is NOT a game warden he is a park ranger for Brooks Park in Goldendale! I know the guy, that cougar was killed either on his family land or very close to it. I dont know where you came up with he is the reason behind your little rant, but I find it quite offense that you refer to him as the person who made the decision not to kill the wolves in this case. He could of been assisting WDFW up there but he has no power over a warden. Please check facts before you start posting false information.
If you know him more than I do, Were there two hounds used to track cat from dead donkey ? :o
Post by: firefighter4607 on March 27, 2013, 01:18:52 PM
Post by: Southpole on March 27, 2013, 01:52:33 PM
That's correct, and don't forget the anti-gun folks. If there is nothing more to hunt you won't need your guns anymore either. This wolf plan is working exactly how they wanted it.Ever see the "Angry peasant mob" scene in the old FRANKENSTEIN movie? The wolves are the monster that the liberal bunny-huggers have created, and soon they will realize what they have done. Only this time it won't be pitchforks the mob will be carrying!
The wolf huggers know exactly what they've created and are ecstatic about it. They want to end hunting and they want to end cattle ranching. There's no better way to do that than an outrageous wolf plan out of control.
Post by: Special T on March 27, 2013, 03:25:08 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 27, 2013, 03:34:00 PM
Having a dead cow is one thing, but more importantly is we have more wolves!!!
I'd say we have the same wolves in different locations. The pair likely relocated from the Teanaway pack.
Not accoring to WDFW :puke: :bash: :bash: :yike:
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 03:50:59 PM
I meant just the 2 of them, not the whole pack. Probably pups or lower members of the Teanaway pack that got kicked out of the main pack and relocated. Now they'll form their new pack.Having a dead cow is one thing, but more importantly is we have more wolves!!!
I'd say we have the same wolves in different locations. The pair likely relocated from the Teanaway pack.
Not accoring to WDFW :puke: :bash: :bash: :yike:
Post by: whacker1 on March 27, 2013, 03:55:41 PM
2014 will be the 15-18 breeding pair in my estimation based on the growth curve, as they typically document the majority of the packs in winter and spring. I don't think that 15 breeding pair is realistic with the remaining months left of 2013's spring unless they confirm more in the NE.
It would be nice to get this show on the road, so that we can start the legal battle over management.........ridiculous system :bash:
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on March 27, 2013, 07:33:55 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 07:44:07 PM
I wish they would cross I-90 to the south, so that we could get this 15 breeding pair count down going sooner rather than later.
2014 will be the 15-18 breeding pair in my estimation based on the growth curve, as they typically document the majority of the packs in winter and spring. I don't think that 15 breeding pair is realistic with the remaining months left of 2013's spring unless they confirm more in the NE.
It would be nice to get this show on the road, so that we can start the legal battle over management.........ridiculous system :bash:
My guess is the Touche pack down in the Blues might be the next one confirmed...breeding pairs, dunno, but I suspect they'll be the next ones.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 27, 2013, 07:50:48 PM
Post by: jackelope on March 27, 2013, 07:56:16 PM
Anyone want to bet the Wedge pack will be reaffirmed!!!
As of that map posted earlier from yesterday the Wedge pack is still affirmed.
:dunno:
Post by: huntnphool on March 27, 2013, 08:04:41 PM
Anyone want to bet the Wedge pack will be reaffirmed!!!It was never removed.
Post by: Ridgeratt on March 27, 2013, 08:06:29 PM
Anyone want to bet the Wedge pack will be reaffirmed!!!It was never removed.
I know that!! But they did the PR and said they had,
Post by: AKBowman on March 27, 2013, 09:50:31 PM
What would be the point of killing every wolf that ever eats cattle? That would mean every wolf in the state would need to be killed.
Exactly! wolves were a bad idea in Yellowstone a bad idea in ID, MT and WY. Theres a reason these SOB's were hunted to practically being extinct by our great grand fathers they are bad news period. theres a pretty simple law in nature and thats: Adapt or Die. wolves never adapted so they died, why cant we stop meddling in nature. before you jump on me and say well we manage game, yeah we do but in an era of human management we are the wolves replacements there is no room for two apex predators
That's not true, I totally disagree there should be wolves...I think about 6 total for WA state is about right. Otherwise let us manage them like all other game animals in the state.
Post by: mulehunter on March 28, 2013, 08:04:35 AM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on March 28, 2013, 08:16:10 AM
Post by: bearpaw on March 29, 2013, 08:27:21 AM
Quote
The state agency has not yet determined how the Hurds’ cow died. Volson said it was apparent that the cow had been scavenged by either a coyote or a wolf. But he said late Tuesday that he will need to consult with other wildlife experts around the state before issuing a determination on the cause of death.
This is a big issue in the Northeast. While WDFW confers back and forth about whether it's a wolf and/or whether or not they want to say it's a wolf, more cattle can be eaten or an offending wolf can leave the area. Then we have a livestock killing wolf looking for his next kill. Apparently the WDFW needs to get their agents brought up to speed on how to determine wolf kills. WDFW is forcing wolves throughout Washington, they at least need to know how to identify wolf damage when they respond to the scene. With a 2.3 million dollar 2 year wolf budget, a budget 3 to 4 times larger than specified in the wolf plan, we are only getting 4 trappers for the entire state and we still have many agents who are not capable of identifying wolf damage. :dunno: :bash:
I have no idea whether it was a wolf kill or not, but the real issue is that the people are not getting responsible wolf management and we are paying far more than the wolf plan outlined. In the meantime wolves are having pups in the Methow and Northeast and there are still no confirmed packs in the third wolf zone. In my opinion the WA wolf plan is a failure and needs to be revised to take into account the many known inaccuracies such as the higher cost, higher population growth rates in localized areas, and higher livestock predation.
Post by: huntnphool on March 29, 2013, 09:17:56 AM
+1QuoteThe state agency has not yet determined how the Hurds’ cow died. Volson said it was apparent that the cow had been scavenged by either a coyote or a wolf. But he said late Tuesday that he will need to consult with other wildlife experts around the state before issuing a determination on the cause of death.
This is a big issue in the Northeast. While WDFW confers back and forth about whether it's a wolf and/or whether or not they want to say it's a wolf, more cattle can be eaten or an offending wolf can leave the area. Then we have a livestock killing wolf looking for his next kill. Apparently the WDFW needs to get their agents brought up to speed on how to determine wolf kills. WDFW is forcing wolves throughout Washington, they at least need to know how to identify wolf damage when they respond to the scene. With a 2.3 million dollar 2 year wolf budget, a budget 3 to 4 times larger than specified in the wolf plan, we are only getting 4 trappers for the entire state and we still have many agents who are not capable of identifying wolf damage. :dunno: :bash:
I have no idea whether it was a wolf kill or not, but the real issue is that the people are not getting responsible wolf management and we are paying far more than the wolf plan outlined. In the meantime wolves are having pups in the Methow and Northeast and there are still no confirmed packs in the third wolf zone. In my opinion the WA wolf plan is a failure and needs to be revised to take into account the many known inaccuracies such as the higher cost, higher population growth rates in localized areas, and higher livestock predation.
Post by: woodywsu on March 29, 2013, 09:49:02 AM
Post by: boneaddict on March 29, 2013, 02:53:09 PM
Post by: mulehunter on June 14, 2013, 08:38:46 AM
Game dept says its cougar. They heard wolves around and other friend has cougar hound and came in same day and didn't pick up any cat scent. No claw marks anywhere!
There were wolf tracks there. Game dept said absolutely not wolf. Said to keep it quiet. :bash:
Post by: boneaddict on June 14, 2013, 09:03:09 AM
Post by: boneaddict on June 14, 2013, 09:04:56 AM
Post by: chukar hunter on June 14, 2013, 09:31:40 AM
Post by: mulehunter on June 14, 2013, 09:41:10 AM
Post by: woodswalker on June 14, 2013, 09:45:52 AM
None, Colt died... Poor thing. It was their prize colt been wanting for long time. Finally had good pregnancy. :bash: :hunter:Ya know...I'd be tempted to bill the state...for this and anything else that could be tacked on...and then take out the trash if found on my property.
Post by: Elkrunner on June 14, 2013, 09:48:30 AM
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 14, 2013, 09:58:58 AM
THey have COMPLETELY different methods of takedown. Youd seriously think theyd be able to tell in a heartbeat of what animal did the damage. Must have been struck by a meteor.
Did you see the dog in the background of one picture? Must've been him. :bash:
Post by: MichaelJ on June 14, 2013, 10:10:25 AM
Heard Another attacked at same family's cousin brand new Colt!! A brand new colt 100 ft from front porch!!!
Game dept says its cougar. They heard wolves around and other friend has cougar hound and came in same day and didn't pick up any cat scent. No claw marks anywhere!
There were wolf tracks there. Game dept said absolutely not wolf. Said to keep it quiet. :bash:
This is less than 2 miles from my house and I know the family well (both families). Talked to G and there were both cougar AND wolf tracks present. I agree with no scratch marks I'd be more inclined to say wolf, and after talking with the bio after the first incident I have zero trust for anything they say!
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: mulehunter on June 14, 2013, 10:15:22 AM
Post by: boneaddict on June 14, 2013, 10:23:59 AM
Post by: AspenBud on June 14, 2013, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: jackelope on June 14, 2013, 11:21:01 AM
The top photo looks more like a cougar bite. 4 widely space canines puncturing the skin. A wolf bite won't be so clean and it will be more of a lacerating, crushing, type wound.:yike:
How dare you!!
Post by: BIGINNER on June 14, 2013, 11:27:09 AM
Post by: bobcat on June 14, 2013, 11:31:03 AM
Post by: AspenBud on June 14, 2013, 11:34:03 AM
The top photo looks more like a cougar bite. 4 widely space canines puncturing the skin. A wolf bite won't be so clean and it will be more of a lacerating, crushing, type wound.:yike:
How dare you!!
I don't know if you're kidding or serious there but with just those two photos I'd go with a cougar attack. For one, a colt is small enough for a decent sized cat to try and take down, a lone wolf probably won't (not saying it isn't possible, just that it's not a good target for a solitary wolf and as many have noted here, wolves are smart). For another, wolves tend to bite and hang on. That leads to all sorts of tearing and a whole mess of teeth marks in the bite area.
Again, without seeing the whole animal I'd say it's hard to truly pass judgement, maybe the colt is missing its hamstrings and half its rear, I don't know. But with what has been posted I'd have to agree with the state on that one. Cats are pretty efficient killers and tend not to be as messy as wolves when doing the job.
Post by: AspenBud on June 14, 2013, 11:34:36 AM
as for the second photo,.. i'm no expert, but isn't he back of the neck the classic cougar attack style?
Yes
Post by: jackelope on June 14, 2013, 11:55:50 AM
The top photo looks more like a cougar bite. 4 widely space canines puncturing the skin. A wolf bite won't be so clean and it will be more of a lacerating, crushing, type wound.:yike:
How dare you!!
I don't know if you're kidding or serious there but with just those two photos I'd go with a cougar attack. For one, a colt is small enough for a decent sized cat to try and take down, a lone wolf probably won't (not saying it isn't possible, just that it's not a good target for a solitary wolf and as many have noted here, wolves are smart). For another, wolves tend to bite and hang on. That leads to all sorts of tearing and a whole mess of teeth marks in the bite area.
Again, without seeing the whole animal I'd say it's hard to truly pass judgement, maybe the colt is missing its hamstrings and half its rear, I don't know. But with what has been posted I'd have to agree with the state on that one. Cats are pretty efficient killers and tend not to be as messy as wolves when doing the job.
I was kidding...going against the grain a little. You're sure to be called out though...just wait for it.
Post by: MichaelJ on June 14, 2013, 12:12:26 PM
Thanks Mike. I guess what they are saying is "get used to it". Sort of like crack heads I guess. They have a right to be here too.
It's bad when he tells you wolves don't target unborn fetuses in cow elk or other animals, it's purely"incidental"... uh huh sure...
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: AspenBud on June 14, 2013, 12:25:15 PM
Thanks Mike. I guess what they are saying is "get used to it". Sort of like crack heads I guess. They have a right to be here too.
It's bad when he tells you wolves don't target unborn fetuses in cow elk or other animals, it's purely"incidental"... uh huh sure...
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
They probably don't. But if you're a wolf pack it's a lot easier to take down a weaker, slower moving, pregnant cow than a healthy bull that can fight back and possibly break limbs and gore you. As a predator you want to expend as little energy taking down prey as possible. I don't know how coincidental it is, animals can smell things we can't. But I'm betting fetuses are not explicitly targeted, just pregnant momma since she can be identified in the herd.
Post by: Scottystyle on June 14, 2013, 11:19:00 PM
Post by: MichaelJ on June 15, 2013, 02:42:44 AM
Thanks Mike. I guess what they are saying is "get used to it". Sort of like crack heads I guess. They have a right to be here too.
It's bad when he tells you wolves don't target unborn fetuses in cow elk or other animals, it's purely"incidental"... uh huh sure...
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
They probably don't. But if you're a wolf pack it's a lot easier to take down a weaker, slower moving, pregnant cow than a healthy bull that can fight back and possibly break limbs and gore you. As a predator you want to expend as little energy taking down prey as possible. I don't know how coincidental it is, animals can smell things we can't. But I'm betting fetuses are not explicitly targeted, just pregnant momma since she can be identified in the herd.
Tell that the the cow elk in Idaho that are taken down, fetus ripped out and eaten then rest of the cow left in the snow to rot...
Just like grizzly's incidently only strip salmon of their skin and eggs... yep it's all incidental, they don't know what parts they enjoy best.
Mike
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: MichaelJ on June 15, 2013, 02:49:32 AM
Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2
Post by: ribka on June 15, 2013, 08:55:34 AM
Heard Another attacked at same family's cousin brand new Colt!! A brand new colt 100 ft from front porch!!!
Game dept says its cougar. They heard wolves around and other friend has cougar hound and came in same day and didn't pick up any cat scent. No claw marks anywhere!
There were wolf tracks there. Game dept said absolutely not wolf. Said to keep it quiet. :bash:
This the same group who swore that there were no wolves in E WA a few years ago.
Yep colt must have been sick or genetically inferior and the poor wolves were just trying to help his livestock. Oh and the wolves are helping the salmon and steelhead runs in recover in the Wenatchee River and Icicle Creek. Forgot to add that one.
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on June 16, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
Post by: denali on June 16, 2013, 01:59:13 PM
The colt must have been hit by a car first, the Wenatchee wolves only eat animals hit by cars. True story.
:chuckle: or it was an old colt....
Post by: wolfbait on June 16, 2013, 06:52:20 PM
I just hope this rancher doesn't suffer extended losses like McIrvin's suffered. Currently the WDFW has confirmed numerous packs but I think only 5 BP's, that means we still need 10 more BP's and then the 3 year countdown begins in which they successfully must breed 3 years in a row to begin the delisting process. If the wolf population continues to double during that 3 years we could have 30-55 BP's by the time we can delist according to the wolf plan. Can you imagine the impacts!
Fortunately Commissioner Douvia insisted on an 18 BP's cap so that if we have 18 BP's in any one year wolf delisted can begin. Douvia also insisted on a 75% population threshold for ungulate populations. If wolf impacts cause ungulate herds to drop below 75%, wolf control can happen.
We need to try and retain Douvia on the Commission. :twocents:
Anything but wolves kill livestock and decimate the game herds, unless of course the truth can't be hidden and then the answer will be "what a shock" washington's wolves have been so well behaved.
Why was the lookout pack finally confirmed? Becuase the pack was reported to the state patrol, hanging out at a bus stop.
Post by: Scottystyle on June 17, 2013, 11:46:15 PM
The colt must have been hit by a car first, the Wenatchee wolves only eat animals hit by cars. True story.
:chuckle: or it was an old colt....
Or the Colt died of complications from giving birth :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: